Dec 04, 2025 Planning and Zoning Agency

>> I VISITED THE SITE IN AUGUST WHEN IT WAS PREVIOUSLY ON OUR AGENDA FOR ANOTHER MATTER.

>> ALSO IN THAT CONVERSATION.

>> I HAVE DRIVEN BY THIS HOUSE SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES.

WE HAVE FRIENDS THAT LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, SO I HAVE SEEN IT.

SO THAT'S IT. ALL RIGHT. THE FLOOR IS YOURS, SIR.

>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. JAMES WHITE HOUSE, 104 SEA JB GROVE MAIN STREET. I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE HYMAN FAMILY FOR THIS REHEARING.

AS YOU MAY RECALL, WE WERE HERE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ON THIS ISSUE FOR THE VARIANCE FOR THEIR POOL TO ALLOW FOR THE REDUCED FRONT YARD SETBACK.

IT WAS GRANTED BACK THEN WITHOUT OBJECTION WHEN WE WENT THROUGH ALL OF THE STANDARDS AND THE REQUIREMENTS. I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH IT AGAIN. THE REASON WHY WE'RE BACK HERE IS WHEN THEY WENT TO DO THEIR CONSTRUCTION PLAN APPROVAL, IT WAS REALIZED THAT THE RIGHT-OF- WAY LINE HAD BEEN MEASURED INACCURATELY ON THE FIRST SURVEY, SO THEY GOT ANOTHER SURVEY.

I'LL SHOW YOU MORE PICTURES THAT SHOWS THE FOUR FOOT LARGER GOING TOWARDS THE PROPERTY. THEY WERE GOING TO DO THE POOL AND PUSH IT TOWARDS THE HOUSE, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT BY THE OVERHANG. SO IN ANY CASE, WE'RE BACK HERE AGAIN. EVEN THOUGH THE STAFF RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL, IT WAS APPROVED.

THEY PREVIOUSLY, SO JUST GO TO THE LOCATION REAL QUICK. LIKE YOU SAID, A FEW YOF YOU WENT OUT THERE.

THIS IS OUT NEAR CRESCENT BEACH AREA OR JUST NORTH OF CRESCENT BEACH AREA. IT'S ON THIS CORNER THROUGH LOT.

THESE ARE ALL THE SAME THINGS WE WENT OVER LAST TIME WITH THE SAME MEMBERS. IT'S WITHIN RS 3.

THE AERIALS -- THERE'S A LARGE OPEN AREAAREA WE'RE REQUESTING THIS THIRDS FRONT YARD SETBACK.

THIS PARTICULAR LOT, YOU CAN SEE WE SHOW THESE BEFORE, BUT THIS IS A LARGE AREA OF RIFE AND UNDER OUR CODE, IT IS A CORNER THROUGH LOT. IT SHOWS THE RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME. THAT WAS SOME OF THE PARTICULAR BASIS FOR THE APPROVAL BEFORE.

THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY ON A CORNER THROUGH LOT WITH THREE FRONT YARDS EXCEEDS ALL THE OTHER SETBACKS. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S EXTRA AREA ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS PARTICULAR LOT. THIS IS THE SIDE THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR THE MINOR VARIANCE ON. THIS IS THE SIDE WITH THE VERY LARGE AREA OF RIGHT-OF-WAY TO THE SOUTH.

WE WENT THROUGH THIS BEFORE, BUT THEY HAVE OWNED THIS PROPERTY FOR OVER 50 YEARS. THEY ARE RENOVATING THE PARTICULAR PROPERTY. THEY WANT TO HAVE THE SMALL POOL ON THIS SIDE. WE WENT THROUGH THE REQUIREMENTS OF VARIANCE LAST TIME. IT'S THE SAME REQUIREMENT THIS IS TIME. IT CONTINUES TO MEET ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. THERE ARE NO OPEN COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM. AND AS YOU SAW THE PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN IN TO SUPPORT THIS PARTICULAR VARIANCE ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD. THE STAFF OFFERS YOU A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH FIVE FINDINGS AND CONDITIONS.

WE ASK YOU TO ONCE AGAIN GRANT THIS VARIANCE BASED ON THE FACT THAT IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU,MR. CHAIR. >> THANK YOU.

ANY BOARD MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS?

>> MAYBE MY QUESTION IS MORE TECHNICAL THAN FOR STAFF.

A QUICK QUESTION. IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE ENGINEERING OR SITE PLAN THAT THE POOL EDGE IS 8 FEET, WALL AROUND THE POOL WOULD BE FOUR FEET. SO I'M NOT -- I'M VOICING A CONCERNAS MUCH AS VARIANCE NEED TO STAY FOUR FEET?

>> UNDER OUR CODE, IT'S MEASURED TO THE WATER OF THE POOL EDGE.

>> THAT'S CORRECT. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE

[00:10:03]

POOL, WE ARE MEASURING TO THE WATER'S EDGE.

ANY REQUIRED FENCE OR BARRIER TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM ACCESSING THE POOL IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

IT HAS TO MEET ITS OWN SET OF STANDARDS.

>> SO IF IT THE OWNER BUILT A SOLID WALL, THAT WOULD STILL NOT BE WITHIN THE REQUIRED

RIGHT-OF-WAY? >> AS LONG AS IT MET THE HEIGHT STANDARD, WHICH IN THIS CASE, I BELIEVE, WOULD LIKELY BE FOUR FEET, BUT IT MIGHT BE SIX FEET BECAUSE IT'S A SECOND FRONT. AS LONG AS IT MET THE HEIGHT STANDARDS, IT DOES NOT NEED A VARIANCE.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> IS THAT IT?

>> JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON OUR DISCUSSION EARLIER. WERE YOU ABLE TO FIND OUT WHERE

THE EWE TULTIES ARE? >> I DID GO BACK IN THE PICTURES. YOU CAN SEE THEY RUN UP AND DOWN THE NORTH STREET. HERE YOU CAN SEE HOW THEY RUN ON THE STREETS. THEY DON'T RUN DOWN THE SIDE STREETS. SO THERE'S NOT THE UTILITIES GOING THIS DIRECTION HERE. THEY GO UP AND DOWN THESE TWO STREETS.

>> ANYONE ELSE ON THE BOARD HAVE QUESTIONS? ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? WE BETTER GET A MOTION FIRST.

>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE 2025-09 BASED ON THE CONDITIONS.

>> THANK YOU. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, LET'S CALL THE VOTE. CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> NO, SIR, JUST ME.

>> I DID A SITE VISIT ALSO.

>> IS IT ON DECEMBER 1ST.

[2. SUPMIN 2025-05 600 Alexander Street. Request for a Special Use Permit, pursuant to Section 2.03.08 of the Land Development Code, to allow for the placement of a Manufactured/Mobile Home in Residential, SingleFamily (RS-3) zoning.]

>> THANK YOU. I APOLOGIZE.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE. FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IT YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION OR IF I DO IT WRONG. WE PURCHASED THIS LOT PROBABLY NINE OR TEN MONTHS AGO WITH THE IDEA OF SPLITTING IT AND PUTTING TWO STICK BUILT HOUSES ON IT.

HOWEVER, DIDN'T DO ENOUGH RESEARCH AND DISCOVER WHEN YOU HAVE A ACCEPTIC SYSTEM, IT'S NOT JUST THE LOT REQUIREMENTS, WHICH I'M SURE YOU KNOW THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. THE GOAL WAS TO PROVIDE A COUPLE AFFORDABLE HOUSES AND NOW WE'RE JUST KIND OF TRYING TO LOOK AND SAY WHAT DO WE DO NEXT? I MOVED HERE FROM SOUTH DAKOTA ABOUT EIGHT YEARS AGO. I WAS ON THE BOARD OF HABITAT HUMANITY. I AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A PASSION OF MINE, AND UNFORTUNATE LIRKS I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE RULES YOU HAVE WITH IT. AS WE LOOKED THROUGH YOU OUR OPTIONS, WE WANT TO STICK WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITH A LARGE LOT IT'S ALMOST HALF AN ACRE.

WE JUST CAN'T MAKE THE NUMBERS PENCIL FOR A STICK BUILT HOUSE WHILE KEEPING IT AFFORDABLE. SO THAT'S WHY WE MOVED TOWARDS A MANUFACTURED HOUSE.

IT FITS WELL WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THERE ARE SEVERAL MANUFACTURED HOUSES IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA. IT WOULD BE ONE OF THE NICER HOUSES IN THAT AREA. THERE'S DEFINITELY NICER, DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE PULLING IT DOWN. AND THAT WOULD BE OUR GOAL.

WHAT QUETIONS DO YOU HAVE FOR ME?

>> ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD?

>> I'M THE SHORT ONE. I APPRECIATE YOUR PASSION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT IS A PASSION OF MINE AND OF OUR COUNTY AS WELL. I APPRECIATE THAT.

I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. WILL THIS MANUFACTURED HOME BE BRAND NEW?

>> YES.

>> OKAY. LONGEVITY ON THOSE ISN'T --

>> UNDERSTOOD.

ABSOLUTELY. >> AND WOULD THERE BE A POTENTIAL AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE FOR A HOME ON THE SECOND LOT?

>> AS OF RIGHT NOW FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, NO.

[00:15:03]

UNLESS THE CITY OR COUNTY BRINGS UTILITIES IN. WE CAN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR IT.

>> OH, FOR ANOTHER SEPTIC TO BE ON THE PROPERTY? THOSE WERE MY ONLY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU'RE UP.

>> IN REGARDS TO THE SEPTIC, HOW FAR AWAY ARE THE SEWER LINES RIGHT NOW?

>> I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THERE'S A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AROUND THE AREA. THEY ALL ARE ON SEPTIC.

SO I'M ASSUMING IT'S AT LEAST A COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY, BUT I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

>> THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE.

>> AS FAR AS THE SEWER, THE CITY CONTINUES TO EXPAND OVER THERE.

IT TAKES FUNDING AND TIME AND MONEY, AND THEY ARE GETTING THERE. EVIDENTLY, THEY ARE NOT TO YOU YET.

>> NOT YET, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? IF SO, PLEASE COME FORWARD.

SEEING NONE, WE'RE BACK IN THE AGENCY FOR A MOTION.

>> I MEANT TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SUPMIN 2025- 05 600 ALEXANDER STREET BASED ON TEN CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

A BLESSING OVER THE PERSON THAT GETS TO LIVE THERE.

>> I'LL SECOND.

>> OKAY. MR. OLSON, I THINK HE BEAT YOU TO THAT SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, LET'S VOTE. THAT

PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[3. SUPMIN 2025-08 Kinlaw Mobile Home. Request for a Special Use Permit pursuant to Section 2.03.08 of the Land Development Code to allow for the placement of a Manufactured/Mobile Home in Residential, SingleFamily (RS-3) zoning, specifically located at 4653 Second Avenue.]

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> YOU'RE WELCOME.

ALL RIGHT. ON TO ITEM NUMBER 3.

THE KEN LAW MOBILE HOME AND BARBARA ARZINGER.

WELCOME.

ANY EX PARTE? YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> A LOT OF THINGS. I TALKED TO A NEIGHBOR, JENNIFER HOLMES. I DID SEVERAL SITE VISITS OUT THERE. ALSO TALKED TO SEVERAL DEPUTIES ABOUT SOME CONCERNS.

>> I DID A SITE VISIT AS WELL AND RECEIVED AN E-MAIL IN REGARDS TO THIS APPLICATION.

>> SITE VISIT ON NOVEMBER 29 TH.

>> THANK YOU. THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

>> THIS GENTLEMAN HERE, HIS PARENTS OWN THIS PROPERTY. HE PAID TO PUT THIS PROPERTY UP SO HE COULD PUT A MANUFACTURED BEHIND IT AS WELL SO HE CAN HELP TAKE CARE OF THE AGEING PARENTS. WHEN I FIRST VISITED THE SITE, I TOLD HIM HE HAD A LOT OF CLEANUP TO DO.

HE HAS SLOWLY BEEN CLEANING IT UP.

I WENT OUT THERE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND TOOK PICTURES. I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HIM. HE'S CLEANING THE SITE UP. SO ONCE THAT SITE GETS CLEANED AND THIS IS APPROVED, WE WILL GO AHEAD. HE DOES HAVE CITY WATER OUT THERE. SO WE DO NEED THE SETBACKS WITH THE SEPTIC SYSTEM.

>> DOES THAT CONCLUDE YOUR PRESENTATION?

>> YES, SIR. I BROUGHT COPIES OF THE SITE PLAN WITH ME AND I BROUGHT SOME GOOGLE PICTURES.

>> YOU CAN PUT THOSE RIGHT ON THE CENTER PODIUM ON THAT X THERE. YOU CAN SPEAK INTO THAT MICROPHONE. S

SO. >> SO DRIVING AROUND THE AREA, THERE'S SEVERAL OTHER MANUFACTURED HOMES. THIS WOULD BE A NEW MOBILE HOME THAT WENT OUT THERE. THERE ARE OTHER MOBILE HOMES IN THE AREA. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A BURDEN ON THE COMMUNITY FOR US TO PUT THAT HOME IN THAT AREA. IT WOULD BENEFIT HIS PARENTS.

THEY ARE AGEING. HE DOES WANT TO BE CLOSER TO THEM FOR THIS REASON.

>> OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? ANY QUESTIONS?

[00:20:05]

>> THANK YOU, SIR.

I AGREE. THE SITE NEEDS TO BE CLONED UP.

THAT'S A VERY GOOD THING. THAT WILL BE A BENEFIT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AT ANY RATE, WHATEVER HAPPENS, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING.

AND CONCERN ABOUT PUTTING A NEW MOBILE HOME, IS THAT THE INTENTION?

>> YES, MA'AM.

>> THEN IT WOULD BE PUTTING ININ SEPTIC AS WELL.

YOU DO REALIZE THAT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS ONLY GOOD FOR ONE YEAR.

>> NO, I DID NOT KNOW THAT.

>> FROM THE TIME WE APPROVE IT TO THE TIME YOU GET YOUR PERMIT, A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT, JACOB, IF YOU COULD CLARIFY MY LANGUAGE. I'M STUMBLING OVER THIS.

>> THROUGH THE CHAIR, TO THE QUESTION, JUST FOR THE APPLICANT'S KNOWLEDGE, TYPICALLY A SPECIAL USE OR VARIANCE IS GRANTED AND REQUIRED TO COMMENCE WITHIN A ONE- YEAR TIME PERIOD.

THAT'S SIMPLY AS LONG AS YOU ARE PREPARED TO PLACE THE MOBILE HOME WITHIN ONE YEAR. IF YOU'RE NOT THINKING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU CAN REQUEST FROM THE BOARD TO ASK FOR A TWO-YEAR TIME PERIOD TO POLICE THE HOME.

>> THAT WAS GOING TO BE A QUESTION THAT I WANTED TO HAVE FOR YOU.

IF YOU'RE HAVING -- IF IT'S TAIKING TIME TO GET THINGS MOVING, THAT PERHAPS IT MIGHT BE WISE TO GO FOR A TWO-YEAR WINDOW AND GIVE YOURSELF A LITTLE MORE TIME.

>> I WILL SAY I'VE BEEN -- I'M A STATE CERTIFIED BUILDING CONTRACTOR. I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS MOBILE HOME PERMITTING FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS.

I WORKED IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY. I PROBABLY IN THE LAST AT LEAST NINE YEARS I HAVE PROBABLY PLACED AT LEAST 200 MOBILE HOMES.

SO THAT PROCESS WHEN WE GO TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, I DO ALL THAT WORK.

THAT TAKES FOUR TO SIX WEEKS TO GET THAT MOBILE HOME PERMIT. I WILL SAY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT OVER HERE, MR. HENRY, ONCE HE GETS ALL THE PAPERWORK, THEN WITHIN TWO TO THREE WEEKS WE HAVE THAT MOBILE HOME OUT THERE.

FROM THE TIME WE PLACE THAT HOME ON TO THE LOT, WE GET ALL THE AC, EVERYTHING DONE APPROXIMATELY FROM THE TIME WE GET THAT PERMIT, APPROXIMATELY TWO MONTHS WE'RE GOING FOR A FINAL INSPECTION.

SO THAT HOUSE WILL BE DONE WITHIN THREE MONTHS.

>> SO YOU DEFINITELY ARE MORE OF AN EXPERT THAN I AM.

I WOULD HATE TO SEE YOU HAVE TO COME BACK IN 13 MONTHS SAYING WE COULDN'T GET IT DONE WITH THE CLEANUP BEING A LITTLE EXTENSE I-.

>> I I STARTED WHEN I MET WITH HIM TWO MONTHS AGO. COME ON.

BECAUSE ONCE WE GET THROUGH THIS AND WE'RE APPROVED ON THIS, THEN I IMMEDIATELY GO IN AND START DOING THE PERMITTING. THE LONGEST IT TAKES US IS THROUGH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

>> NOW THE STATE IS DOING THOSE NOW. IT'S NOT EVEN LOCAL.

>> I KNOW.

>> GOOD. THANK YOU.

I WAS JUST TRYING TO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM UP THE ROAD. YOUR TRAJECTORY CAN CONTINUE MOMENTUM ONCE THIS IS APPROVED. THANK YOU.

>> IF I I CAN GET STAFF TO PULL UP THE PICTURE?

>> THIS IS THE PICTURE I TOOK THE OTHER DAY. I HAVE SOME CONCERNS IN TALKING WITH THE NEIGHBOR. IT TURNS OUT THAT SQUATTERS ARE IN THAT TRAILER IN THE BACK NOW. THERE'S NO WATER OR SEWER. THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT IS THAT THEY ARE USING THE EXTERIOR AS THEIR BATHROOM.

>> DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

>> THE THING IS -- THE QUESTION I'VE GOT, IT LOCKS LIKE IT USED TO BE A REPAIR SHOP IN ONE CORNER OF IT. % IS ALL OF THAT COMING OUT?

>> YES. I TOLD HIM SO WHEN I MET HIM, IT STILL LOOKS BAD, BUT THE FIRST TIME WE COULDN'T HARDLY EVEN GET ON SITE. I TOLD HIM EVERY BIT OF THIS JUNK HAS TO BE REMOVED. LIKE SAID, HE HAS -- I WOULD PROBABLY SAY AT LEAST 70% TO 80% HAS BEEN REMOVED.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS SOMEONE IN THE BACK BACK THERE, BUT I TOLD HIM HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LEAVE ANY OF THAT JUNK. BECAUSE THERE WAS ALL KINDS OF STUFF. HE HAS CLEANED A LOT OF IT UP. HE KNEW I HAD THE MEETING TODAY.

I TOLD HIM, I SAID, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, I TOOK PICTURES AND SAID YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT MORE THAN THIS.

HE HAS DONE MORE SINCE ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, BUT LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE, WE WERE GOING TO GO BY THERE WHEN I LEFT TODAY AND TAKE MORE PICTURES AND TELL HIM HE'S GOT TO CLEAN UP.

>> DEFINITELY. ACCORDING TO THE DEPUTIES THAT I TALKED TO, THEY CAN'T GET THOSE SQUATTERS TO MOVE.

[00:25:04]

THEY HAVE BEEN IN THERE THREE TO FOUR WEEKS ALREADY.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

>> THAT'S THE MAIN THING IS TO GET THE LOT TOTALLY CLEEND UP.

YOU HAVE THE LEAN- TO STRUCTURE, YOU HAVE ANOTHER CANVAS STRUCTURE, YOU HAVE THE CAR LIFT BACK THERE.

SO IT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT ALL OF THAT IS COMING OUT?

>> FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, YES, SIR.÷÷I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THE A ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, WHEN IT COMES TO SQUATTERS, WHEN THEY ARE IN A DWELLING LIKE THIS, IF THERE'S NO WATER, THERE'S NO POWER AND THIS IS NO SEPTEMBER ISSIC SEPTIC, I WHY WOULD IT BE DIFFICULT TO GET THEM OUT? WHEN IT'S A PLACE LIKE THIS THAT THEY ARE JUST SQUATTING, WHY WOULD WE HAVE ISSUES ON TRYING TO GET THEM OUT? OR IS THAT A QUESTION WE NEED TO TAKE UP WITH SOMEONE?

>> TAKE IT UP WITH THE SHERIFFS OFFICE.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO FILE A COMPLAINT.

>> YES, SIR. BASED ON LACK OF MAINTENANCE OR NUISANCE ITEMS, IT CAN CERTAINLY BE FILED.

>> THAT'S ANOTHER WAY TO GET THE AUTHORITIES OUT THERE.

>> OKAY. >> THANK YOU.

>> WOULD YOU ACTUALLY -- WHEN THERE'S A MOTION MADE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INCLUDE A PROVISION THAT THE LOT BE ENTIRELY CLEANED UP PRIOR TO BUILDING? IS THAT SATISFACTORY TO YOU?

>> YES, SIR.

>> ANYONE ELSE? ANYONE HERE IN THE PUBLIC HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE, WE HAVE A MOTION.

>> I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SUPMIN 2025- 08 KINLU MOBILE HOME BASED ON EIGHT FINDINGS OF FACT AND TEN CONDITIONS TO INCLUDE THAT THE LOT BE TOTALLY CLEANED OUT BEFORE IT COMMENCES.

>> YES, I SECOND THAT MOTION.

>> ANY DISCUSSION?

>> ALL RIGHT. WE'RE READY TO VOTE.

CONGRATULATIONS.

[4. SUPMAJ 2025-12 Vincenzo's Cucina. Request for a Special Use Permit, pursuant to Section 2.03.02 of the Land Development Code, to allow for the on-site sale and consumption of Alcoholic Beverages under the State of Florida Type 4COP/SFS beverage license in connection with an existing restaurant, located within Commercial General (CG) zoning and specifically located at 3787 Palm Valley Road.]

>> THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER 4.

CASINO AND MR. LAWRENCE YANSY AND ANY EX PARTE ON THIS ITEM? I I ACTUALLY DROVE BY IT JUST LAST WEEK ON

MY WAY SOMEWHERE ELSE. >> I VISITED THE SITE. I ALSO TALKED TO THE OWNER.

>> SITE VISIT ON THE 29TH OF NOVEMBER.

>> TO THE LOCATION. >> ANYONE ELSE?

>> I'M FROM JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA.

I'M REPRESENTING THE CLIENT. HE'S TRYING TO INCREASE HIS LICENSE TO A FOUR COP. I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT.

YOU KNOW IT'S A CLEAN SITE. HASN'T HAD ANY INCIDENTS.

HE'S FROM NEW YORK CITY. IT'S AN ITALIAN RESTAURANT.

HE WILL BRING A LOT OF ITALIAN FLAVOR TO THE AREA WITH HIS SPECIAL SAUCES AND SPECIAL WINES THERE ALSO. HE IS JUST ASKING THE BOARD TO CONSIDER THIS SPECIAL USE FOR THIS RESTAURANT TO START SELLING BEVERAGES.

THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO HAVE THIS USE, WE ASK YOU TO GRANT THAT ON TO THAT. IT'S FS DOT MAINTAINED ROADWAY, SO THERE'S NO PROBLEM GETTING IN AND OUT OF THAT AREA. SO HE HAS PLENTY OF PARKING THERE.

[00:30:03]

THERE'S ALSO OTHEROTHER RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE THE SAME USE, SO WE'RE ASKING FOR THAT USE TO BE AT THAT LOCATION. THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

>> OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? SEEING NONE, ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ON THAT ITEM? SEEING NONE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE BACK IN THE AGENCY FOR A MOTION. MR. LAB NOW SKIT?

>> I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE 2025- 12 BASED ON EIGHT FINDINGS OF FACT AND 11 CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED BY THE STAFF.

>> SECOND. >> I'LL SECOND.

ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, WE'LL TAKE THE VOTE. CONGRATULATIONS.

[5. TOWER 2025-03 State Road 16 Communication Tower. Request for a Special Use Permit pursuant to Section 2.03.26 of the Land Development Code to allow for the construction of a 195-foot monopole communication tower and support facilities within Open Rural (OR) zoning, specifically located at 3851 State Road 16.]

VERY AGREEABLE BOARD SO FAR TODAY. ITEM NUMBER 5. HAROLD TIMMONS TO SPEAK ON -- YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE HAROLD, BUT YOU COULD BE.

>> I'M MUCH BETTER LOOKING THAN

HAROLD. >> EX PARTE?

>> I DRIVE BY THAT SITE EVERY DAY SEVERAL TIMES A DAY.

>> I DID A SITE VISIT, AND I CALLED HAROLD TIMMONS TO DISCUSS THE PLAN.

HE DID NOT RETURN MY CALL. I LEFT HIM A VOICE MAIL.

I DID HAVE AN EXTENSIVE PHONE CONVERSATION WITH OMNICOM WHO IS OUR CONSULTANT FOR ST. JOHNS

COUNTY. >> A SITE VISIT ON DECEMBER 2ND.

>> MR. GREEN? >> VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE DROPBACK OF IT.

I HAVE DRIVEN BY IT AT LEAST 50 TO 100 TIMES. I'M ALSO FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE. THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

>> OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON.

121 SOUTH ORANGE AVENUE, ORLANDO, FLORIDA PREPONDERANCE I'M LEGAL COUNSEL FOR THE APPLICANT ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.

WITH ME TODAY IS JEREMY SEAGULL, PROJECT MANAGER.

OUR LANDOWNER IS HERE AS WELL. AND I HAVE DAVID TOLBY, A GENERAL REAL ESTATE APPRAISER AS AN EXPERT WITNESS.

OKAY.

THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR A CELLULAR COMMUNICATIONS TOWER.

I'M GOING TO START WITH THE ZONING MAP.

YOU CAN SEE THE BLUE SIERK CIRCLE RIGHT HERE. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE PROPOSED TO LOCATE HE TOWER.

MOSTLY SURROUND BID OR ZONING. THE FUTURE LAND USE IS RURAL.

AND THIS IS OUR SITE PLAN OVERLAID ON AN AIR Y'ALL. IT'S 5. 7 ACRES IN SIZE. IT'S 195-FOOT OVERALL HEIGHT ON THE TOWER. IT'S 185 FEET TO THE TOP OF STEEL. PLUS A 10- FOOT LIGHTNING ROD. WE'RE UNDER THE 200-FOOT THRESHOLD, SO THERE WILL BE NO LIGHTING ON THIS PARTICULAR STRUCTURE. IT'S BEEN DESIGNED FOR A 50- FOOT FALL- EN ZONE RADIUS. SO IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT OF TOWER FAILURE, THE TOWER WOULD COLLAPSE ON ITSELF. THE YELLOW LINES ON THIS DRAWING REPRESENT THE SCENIC EDGE OF 75 FEET AND 35 FEET DEVELOPMENT EDGE AROUND THE OTHER BOUNDARY LINES OF THE PROPERTY. WE ARE RESPECTING ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN YOUR CODE. THE ANCHOR TENANT IS VERIZON.

SINCE WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS PROCESS, T-MOBILE HAS SUBMITTED A COAPPLICATION. SO OUT OF THE BOOKS, WE'LL HAVE TWO CARRIERS ON THIS SITE. IT'S UNUSUAL TO GET TWO THAT QUICKLY, BUT THAT'S AN INDICATION THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR EXPANDED COVERAGE IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.

ACCESS COMES FROM STATE ROAD 16. IT WILL HAVE ITS OWN NEW DRIVEWAY ACCESS RIGHT HERE. THE COLT COMPOUND IS A 50 BY 50 FOOT LEASE AREA. IT WILL HAVE AN 8- FOOT PRIVACY FENCE AND A 10- FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER REQUIRED BY YOUR CODE. IT DOESN'T GENERATE MUCH TRAFFIC. GENERALLY, ONE TENANT VISIT PER MONTH OR PER QUARTER. SOMETIMES NOW THESE TOWERS ARE BEING SERVICE REMOTELY, SO IT'S A LOW TRAFFIC GENERATOR. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER SITE

[00:35:01]

PLAN THAT SHOWS SOME DISTANCES. THERE ARE A COUPLE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ON THIS PROPERTY.

AND THE DISTANCE IS FROM THE TOWER TO THOSE STRUCTURES ARE SHOWN WERE 333 FEET TO THE EXISTING MOBILE HOME THAT'S UP IN THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE SITE. AND THEN WE ARE WRSH WHERE'S THE OTHER ONE? DOWN TO THE WEST. THAT'S ON TO THE WEST 580 FEET.

THERE'S A WETLAND ON THE PROPERTY.

IT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE. WE'RE MEETING ALL OF YOUR WETLAND SETBACK BUFFERS. AND THAT WETLAND AREA IS WOODED.

IT PROVIDES A LOT OF BUFFERING AND SCREENING ON SITE TO PROPERTIES TO THE SOUTH WITH THAT TREE COVE.

ELEVATION VIEW OF THE TOWER, 195 FEET TOTAL HEIGHT, 185 TOP OF STEEL.

VERIZON AT THE TOP SIMULATED STONE FENCE AT THE BOTTOM.

T-MOBILE WILL BE AT THE SECOND CENTER AT 170. AND THEN THE TOWER WILL BE CAPABLE OF SUPPORTING TWO MORE USERS. THE TWO MORE LICENSED CARRIERS IN YOUR MARKETPLACE. WE HAD A COMMUNITY MEETING, AS REQUIRED BY YOUR CODE. WE HAD FOUR PEOPLE ATTEND.

MR. MASTERS AND HIS WIFE WERE TWO OF THEM.

THAT'S OUR LANDOWNER. AND WE HAD TWO RESIDENTS FROM THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY TO THE SOUTH. AND THEIR SOLE QUESTION WAS IS THE TOWER GOING TO HAVE A LIGHT. WHEN WE TOLD THEM NO, THEY WERE SATISFIED. THIS IS OUR ENGINEERED FALL ZONE LETTER THAT SUBSTANTIATED THE 50-FOOT FALL ZONE. THIS IS OUR SITE EVALUATION.

THE RING REPRESENTS OUR SEARCH AREA.

WE DID NOT GET ANY RESPONSE FROM ANY OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF STATE ROAD 16.

THE GREEN DOT, THE GREEN PIN IS THE MASTERS PROPERTY.

IT IS JUST OUTSIDE OF THE RING, BUT THAT WAS SEPPED BY VERIZON, OUR ANCHOR TENANT. AND THE MASTERS PROPERTY IS ONE OF THE LARGER PROPERTIES IN THAT AREA, WHICH IS GOOD.

LARGER-SIZED PROPERTY ALLOWS THE IMPACT OF THE TOWER TO BE ABSORBED ON SITE. THIS IS THE INFORMATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, OMAR COULD NOT BE HERE TODAY.

I PLAY AN RF ENGINEER ON TV, SO I'M GOING TO WALK YOU THROUGH THIS. THIS IS NEEDED FOR COVERAGE AND CAPACITY TO STATE ROAD 16.

THIS IS A LIST OF VERIZON'S NEIGHBORING OR HAND-OFF SITES. YOU CAN SEE THE HAGTS VARY FROM 120 TO 220, THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT HEIGHTS.

THE BLUE DOT IN THE MIDDLE IS THE PROPOSED LOCATION. THE RED LINES POINT TO ALL OF VERIZON'S EXISTING LOCATIONS OR THEIR HAND-OFF SITES.

YOU CAN SEE THIS IS REALLY SORT OF IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THEIR SUPPORTING LOCATIONS.

THIS IS THEIR CURRENT CAPACITY COVERAGE.

GREEN IS GOOD, RED IS NOT GOOD. THIS IS THE SUBJECT SITE RIGHT HERE. YOU SEE THE RED NORTH ASK SOUTH OF STATE ROAD 16.

WHEN WE ADD THE SITE, ALL OF THAT GOES TO GREEN.

AND THEY ADDED THE THIRD SITE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT IN ADDITION TO BUILDING NEW TOWERS, THE WIRELESS COMPANIES ALSO MAKE UPGRADES AND CHANGES TO EXISTING SITES TO TRY TO IMPROVE CAPACITY.

AND THEY HAVE TWO ACTIVE PROJECTS ON BOTH OF THOSE SIDES TO THE NORTH TO IMPROVE COVERAGE IF THE COSTS GO. THEY DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO UPGRADE EXISTING FACILITIES BEFORE THEY BUILD A NEW ONE. HERE'S OUR PHOTO SIM.

HERE'S OUR SITE LOCATION RIGHT HERE.

IT REALLY HELPS SCREEN. SO LOCATION NUMBER ONE.

LOCATION 1 IS 245 FEET AWAY. IT'S NORTHWEST ALONG STATE ROAD 16. THIS IS THE BEFORE SITE. IT'S JUST BARELY VISIBLE ABOVE THE TREE COVER. LOCATION NUMBER TWO, WE'RE MOVING ALONG TOWARDS 95. THIS SHOT IS 465 FEET AWAY.

AND THE TOWER IS JUST VISIBLE RIGHT HERE ABOVE THE TREE LINE.

NUMBER THREE, NOW WE'RE STILL ON STATE ROAD 16, BUT WE'RE COMING THE OTHER DIRECTION. IT'S 525 FEET AWAY.

[00:40:03]

THIS IS THE GREATEST VISIBILITY OF THE TOWER, BUT IT'S RIGHT THERE IN WITH POWER LINE CORRIDOR THAT RUNS ALONG 16. HERE'S LOCATION NUMBER 4.

THIS IS IN A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE THAT IS EAST OF STATE ROAD 16.

THIS IS AT THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

WHICH IS THE CLOSEST POINT WE COULD GET. THE TOWER IS CONCEALED BEHIND THE EXISTING TREE LINE. LOCATION 5 WERE 2085 FEET AWAY.

STILL ON STATE ROAD16. FURTHER SOUTH NEAR THE ENTRANCE TO THE GRAND OAKS COMMUNITY. AND DID I HIT THAT TOO FAST? YOU CAN SEE THE TOWER AGAIN IN THE POWER. LOCATION NUMBER 6.

THIS IS 1,700 FEET AWAY. THIS IS THE TURN BOLT ROAD IN THE GRAND OAKS SUBDIVISION. AND THE TOWER IS NOT VISIBLE BEHIND THE TREE LINE.

LOCATION 7 ALSO IN THAT SAME GRAND OAKS NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THAT COMMUNITY.

920 FEET AWAY. IT'S NOT VISIBLE. AND LOCATION 8 IS FURTHER ALONG TO THE WEST.

IT'S GOT SOME VISIBILITY THERE. SO YOUR TOWER CODE, WE MEET ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF YOUR TOWER CODE.

I AM GOING TO HAVE MR. TALBY COME UP AND ADDRESS THE REQUIREMENT UNDER SPECIAL USES DOWN HERE.

WHILE HE'S COMING UP, I'M GOING TO PUT A COPY OF HIS REPORT.

>> DAVID TALBY, EAST JACKSON STREET, TAMPA.

>> WHAT'S YOUR OCCUPATION? >> REAL ESTATE APPRAISER.

>> HAVE YOU EVER BEEN -- WHAT ARE YOUR

CERTIFICATIONS? >> I'M A MEMBER OF THE APPRAISAL

INSTITUTE. >> HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT?

>> I HAVE.

>> IN WHAT KINDS OF CASES?

>> MULTIPLE CASES. TOWERS, EMINENT DOMAIN.

>> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION.

WILL THIS TOWER HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON ADJACENT PROPERTY VALUES?

>> BASED ON MY 25 YEARS OF RESEARCHING, I CANNOT FIND ANY DATA TO SUPPORT THAT THIS TOWER IS GOING TO HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING VALUATIONS.

>> COULD YOU JUST ELABORATE ON THE BASIS FOR YOUR OPINION?

>> I HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS FOR A 25 PLUS YEARS. I HAVE STUDIED IT FROM UP IN THE PANHANDLE, JEFFERSON, LEON COUNTY, AND I HAVE STUDIED PROBABLY NO LESS THAN 200, MAYBE EVEN 250 TOWER INSTALLATIONS. HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF SALES SURROUNDING THOSE TOWERS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT URBAN, RURAL TOWERS.

FLAG POE TOWERS, I HAVE STUDIED THEM ALL.

IN ADDITION TO ALL THE STUDY AND MATCH PAIRS ANALYSIS THAT I HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS, I HAVE SPOKEN TO AT LEAST 25 APPRAISERS FROM OUT OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA, INCLUDING MARK TAYLOR WHO ARE IS YOUR SENIOR CHIEF APPRAISER HERE IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, THEY HAVE NEVER MADE AN ADJUSTMENT, DOWNWARD, UPWARD OR OTHERWISE, BECAUSE OF PROXIMITY TO A TOWER.

HOW DID K THAT BE WHEN THERE'S ALL THIS UPROAR? THEY DEAL WITH THE SAME DATA I DO. MACRODATA. THERE REALLY IS JUST NO SUPPORT SHOWING ANY INDICATION THAT THESE TOWERS AFFECT SURROUNDING THE PROPERTY VALUES. HOUSES, RURAL, COMMERCIAL, SO.

>> DO ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY

QUESTIONS? >> IS THE PRESENTATION

CONCLUDED? >> I'M GOING TO WRAP UP WITH HOW WE COMPLY WITH THE CODE.

>> IF THERE'S QUESTIONS FOR HIM,

HE CAN COME BACK UP. >> OKAY.

>> I'M GOING TO WRAP UP BY SUMMARIZING THE CODE REQUIREMENTS. THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION CAN BE GRANTED WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT.

THIS USE IS NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTURE.

IT PROMOTES PUBLIC SAFETY BY ENHANCING 911 SERVICES.

I DID A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST TO THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT AND 87% OF ALL 911 CALLS COME INTO THE ST.

JOHNS COUNTY OFFICE VIA WIRELESS PHONES. IT WILL IMPROVE SERVICE TO THE

[00:45:01]

COMMUNITY FOR ALL LICENSED CARRIERS AND IMPROVE CONSUMER CHOICE.

IT WILL AVOID THE PROLIFERATION OF OF TOWERS. THE USE IS COMPATIBLE. YOUR DEFINITION IN YOUR CODE IS SOMETHING THAT CAN COEXIST WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THIS CAN DEFINITELY COEXIST. THERE'S NO NOISE, GLARE, DUST OR TRAFFIC.

IT'S VERY LIMITED VISIBILITY. IT COMPLIES WITH ALL THE OF THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT CODE, INCLUDING THE SPECIAL USE AND TOWER SPECIFIC CRITERIA. THE USE IS NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE RURAL FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION. IT PROMOTES HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE BY ENHANCING WIRELESS COVERAGE TO THE AREA. IT'S NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS IN THE AREA. AND IT HAS MINIMAL ESTHETIC IMPACT AND WILL ACCOMMODATE THE GROWING NEED FOR WIRELESS. AND FINALLY, AS TO THE SAFETY OF THE FALL ZONE, IT IS ENTIRELY WITHIN THE TRACT. WITH THAT, I STAND FOR QUESTIONS AND WOULD ASK FOR TO REBUT ANY COMMENTARY YOU MIGHT GET.

>> I NOTICE THEY KEEP PUTTING THE TOWERS WITHIN RESIDENTIAL AREAS.

AND THAT'S NOT THE ONLY SPOT. THERE'S OTHER SPOTS. THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE. MORE SO THAN IN A COMMUNITY.

WHY DO WE KEEP GOING INTO THOSE AREAS AND NOT OFF OF 95, WHICH COULD STILL COVER THAT AREA?

>> THE WIRELESS CARRIERS ALL STRIVE TO PROVIDE THE MAXIMUM COVERAGE AND CAPACITY TO ALL AREAS WHERE THERE IS DEMAND.

>> WE WOULD COVER ROADS BECAUSE PEOPLE CALLED THEM CAR PHONES. NOW THE USE IS DIFFERENT.

PEOPLE DEMAND THE COVERAGE AND THE SERVICE IN THEIR HOME. THE WIRELESS CARRIERS HAVE MORE DEMAND THAN THEY HAVE RESOURCES.

SO THEY BASE THEIR DECISIONS AND THEIR BUDGETS ON THE AREAS OF GREATEST NEED. AND THE RESIDENCE SHL AREAS ARE THE GREATEST NEED. I GUARANTEE YOU IF THERE ARE DEAD ZONES ON 95, THERE WILL BE APPLICATIONS COMING TO MEET THAT.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LIMITED RESOURCES AND LIMITED BUDGETS.

THEY CAN'T DO IT ALL AT ONE TIME. THE 95 CORRIDOR, IF YOU WANT THEM RIGHT UP ON 95, THAT CORRIDOR IS OWNED BY D.O.T. THEY CONTROL THAT.

THEY HAVE A MASTER AGREEMENT WITH A TOWER EBTTY. I CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME OF IT, BUT THAT ENTITY IS THE ONE THAT HAS TO GO DEVELOP TOWERS ON THE 95 CORRIDOR.

>> THE REASON I'M ASKING, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET SEVERAL MILES DOWN IS A TOWER.

THAT DOESN'T COVER THAT AREA?

>> I'M GOING TO GO TO THE TOWER MAP. THE ENGINEER COULD NOT BE HERE TODAY. LET ME GO BACK TO HIS MAP.

>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT --

>> THERE'S ONE RIGHT IN THE AREA.

THEY ARE ON THAT. THEY ARE ON A TOWER DOWN HERE.

LET ME LOOK.

>> IT'S BETWEEN 209.

AND 16. >> I THINK IT'S THE 127.

>> VERIZON IS ALREADY ON IT. >> SO THAT DOESN'T TO PUT THIS TOWER?

>> LET'S GO BACK TO THE COVERAGE MAP THERE IT IS DOWN HERE.

THIS IS 2. 86 MILES AWAY.

WE DON'T GET THAT KIND OF COVERAGE OUT OF THESE SITES.

I MEAN, IF YOU WERE AT 300 FEET, YOU MIGHT GET -- THUS OF THE UPSIDE DOWN FLASHLIGHT.

THE CLOSER IT IS TO THE GROUND, THE SMALLER THE CIRCLE IS. YOU RAISE IT UP, THE CIRCLE GETS BIGGER. SO HEIGHT IS A LITTLE BIT DETERMINE TY.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

[00:50:02]

IN FLORIDA, WE'RE KIND OF FLAT. THE TOWERS GO A LOT FARTHER THAN IF YOU WERE IN A MOUNTOUS AREA.

>> I GOT QUITE AN EDUCATION ABOUT THIS SINCE LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE.

I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU, MA'AM. WHY SUCH A SMALL RADIUS? IT LOOKS LIKE VERIZON ASKED FOR A SEARCH WITHIN A ONE- MILE RADIUS. WHY?

>> IT'S SMALLER THAN THAT. IT'S PROBABLY A QUARTER OF A MILE. THAT IS HOW YOU GET -- CHRIS MAY HAVE TO COME TALK ABOUT THIS.

IF YOU GET THEM TOO CLOSE TOGETHER, THEY COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT SEPARATION BETWEEN SITES TO MAKE THE ANTENNAS WORK CORRECTLY. YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH OVERLAP.

AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR AWAY TO CREATE THE HOLE.

SO YOU CAN SEE GIVEN THESE EXISTING LOCATIONS WHY THEY NEED ONE RIGHT IN HERE. IT'S IN THE MIDDLE.

THAT TAKE WAS THAT RED AREA. ALL IN HERE AND ON THE EAST SIDE OF 16. IT ALL GOES TO GREEN.

TYPICALLY THE SEARCH RINGS ARE A QUARTER OF A MILE.

>> I THOUGHT I HAD READ IN HERE YOU LOOKED AT A ONE- MILE RADIUS FOR A SITE.

THAT'S WHY I CAME UP WITH THE ONE MILE. I SAW THAT IN SEVERAL PLACES THAT THERE WAS A DIRECTION WAS GIVEN BY VERIZON TO SEARCH WITHIN A ONE- MILE RADIUS OF THIS PARTICULAR POINT, AND YOU SAID IT WAS RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THAT RADIUS.

I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU. SO LOOKING FORWARD, DOES IT SEEM -- I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S MORE DRAIN WITH PEOPLE STREAMING ALL THE TIME AND CALLS TEND TO GET DROPPED BECAUSE TOWERS ARE BUSY. AND I DO UNDERSTAND PUTTING THEM CLOSE TOGETHER. I REALLY DID LEARN A LOT. BUT THAT IN THE FUTURE, DOES IT SEEM LIKE MAYBE WE'RE MORE LIKELY TO SEE TOWERS NEEDING TO BE CLOSER TOGETHER BECAUSE OF THE INCREASED DEMAND OF CELLULAR DATA?

>> YOU ARE NOW -- THAT'S A QUESTION I'M A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE --

>> A SPECULATION QUESTION.

>> I WOULD ENCOURAGE.

YOU HAVE AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT WHO MAY ABLE TO GIVE YOU A BETTER ANSWER THAN THAT. I'M A LAND USE LAWYER. THIS IS MY SUBSPECIALTY, BUT I WANT TO STAY IN MY LANE.

>> LET'S STAY IN YOUR LANE THEN. I HAVE A COUPLE BRIEF QUESTIONS.

YOU HAVE A TABLE HERE REGISTRATION TABLE, AND YOU'VE GOT FIVE SITES LISTED AND THREE OF THEM IT SAYS CANCELLED AND TWO COMPLETED.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> IS THIS THE TABLE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

>> NO, A DIAGRAM UNDERNEATH. IT WASN'T ON YOUR PRESENTATION. IT WAS IN THE MATERIALS. I AM JUST CURIOUS WHAT THAT MEANS.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN THERE'S A CANCELLED APPLICATION FOR AN ASR REGISTRATION?

>> A SITE THAT WAS NOT BUILT OR

A TOWER THAT WAS TAKEN DOWN? >> THEY GOT AN ANTENNA SITE REGISTRATION.

>> SO REGISTRATION THROUGH THE FCC BUT NEVER GOT IT.

THAT WAS MY QUESTION ON THAT. THEN I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT -- CAN YOU BRIEFLY EXPLAIN CAPACITY VERSUS COVERAGE.

IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

>> CHRIS IS LAUGHING BACK THERE. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

THIS IS WHAT I HEARD THE ENGINEERS SAY.

EACH ONE OF THOSE PANEL ANTENNAS CAN ONLY HANDLE SO MUCH TRAFFIC AT ONE TIME. IF THERE'S TOO MUCH TRAFFIC OUT THERE, THE ANTENNA ARES OVERLOADED. THAT'S WHY YOU'LL GET A DROPPED CALL OR THAT LITTLE CIRCLE WITH JUST SPIN AND SPIN. THERE'S A FINITE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT THE ANTENNAS CAN HANDLE. CHRIS, DID I DO OKAY WITH THAT?

>> OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU. AND THEN THERE WAS A QUESTION ASKED AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING.

AND I DID APPRECIATE YOUR NOTES FOR THAT, BUT I DIDN'T SEE AN ABSENTEE TO THE QUESTION. I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT YOU TOLD THE PERSON WHO ATTENDED. THE QUESTION IS AT A THE BOTTOM OF YOUR COMMUNITY MEETING SUMMARY. IT SAYS WILL THERE BE BE COVERAGE WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET OF THE TOWER BECAUSE THEY HAD HEARD THE CLOSER TO THE TOWER YOU ARE, THE LESS COVERAGE YOU HAVE.

>> I WAS NOT AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING, SO I DO NOT KNOW WHAT WAS SAID.

>> DO YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION?

>> I DON'T THINK IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. CHRIS? I'M GLAD HE'S HERE.

[00:55:02]

>> I AM TOO. VERY HELPFUL.

>> I DON'T NORMALLY COME WITHOUT THE ENGINEER. THAT WAS A LAST MINUTE.

>> SO THE QUESTION IS THE COVERAGE THE SAME DIRECT UNDER THE TOWER? IT DEPENDS ON THE ANTENNA MODELS. SOMETIMES THERE'S SHADOWING EFFECT IF YOU'RE DIRECTLY NEAR A TOWER, PUT IN THIS CASE, THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED, THE PATTERN OF THE ANTENNA IS INTENDED TO COVER THAT HOLE.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> THEN THE REGULATIONS ARE PRETTY STRICT ABOUT PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM GETTING WITHIN A CERTAIN DISTANCE AND THE SIGNAGE AND EVERYTHING. THE HOMER FULLY UNDERSTANDS ALL THE IMPLICATIONS OF HAVING A CELL TOWER ON

HIS PROPERTY? >> HE SIGNED A LEASE.

>> ALL RIGHT. THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS.

>> IN RURAL AREAS, IT'S NOT I ATYPICAL FOR US TO BE PUTTING TOWERS ON PROPERTIES THAT ARE ALREADY IMPROVED WITH THE SINGLE- FAMILY RESIDENCE.

>> THERE'S AN FCC STANDARD FOR ANYBODY THAT HAS A BROADCAST HAS TO BE FOR RADIATION STANDARDS.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? I GUESS NOT.

>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CASE OF NEED.

A MOTION TO APPROVE 2025-03 STATE ROAD 16 COMMUNE KIGS TOWER BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND FACTS OF TEN CONDITIONS THAT STAFF PUT IN.

>> DO WE HAVE A MOTION?

MR. OLSON? >> I SECOND THAT MOTION.

>> ANY DISCUSSION? TAKE THE VOTE.

ANOTHER UNANIMOUS APPROVAL.

>> BEFORE WE GO TO ITEM NUMBER 6, SHORESES BOULEVARD AND THE POTENTIAL LIQUOR STORE, I WONDER HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE IN THE AUDIENCE ARE PRESENT FOR THAT ITEM? I THINK WE CAN GET THROUGH IT AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A BREAK BEFORE ITEM 7 AND 8.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

[6. MINMOD 2025-15 Shores Boulevard. Request for a Minor Modification to the St. Augustine Shores PUD (Ordinance 1974-16, as amended) to allow for the sale of Alcoholic Beverages containing more than fourteen (14) percent alcohol by volume for off-premises consumption, and to allow relief from the 1,000-foot distance requirement between a Church and/or School, specifically located at 40 Jackson Plaza Place. (Part 1 of 2)]

LET'S MOVE FORWARD WITH THE SHORES BOULEVARD ITEM 6.

JULIE. IS THERE ANY EX PARTE?

>> I SEE ONE.

>> YES, SIR. I DID GET QUITE A FEW E-MAILS REGARDING THIS APPLICATION. I HAD A BRIEF PHONE CONVERSATION WITH A LOCAL RESIDENT. I DID A SITE VISIT.

I MADE A CALL TO THE 7TH AVENUE CHURCH.

THEY DID NOT RETURN MY CALL, BUT THEY DID PROVIDE AN E-MAIL.

>> SITE VISIT DECEMBER 2ND AND NEARLY A DOZEN LETTERS OF

OPPOSITION. >> I HAD TEN E-MAILS AND I ALSO VISITED THE SITE.

>> I HAVE DRIVEN BY THIS SITE NUMEROUS TIMES, INCLUDING JUST LAST WEEK. I ALSO RECEIVED QUITE A FEW E- MAILS, INCLUDING SOME TODAY, THAT WERE PRINTED OUT FOR US IN OPPOSITION TO THIS.

MR. GREEN? >> ALL RIGHT.

>> I'M JULIE LIMKE. THIS IS THE PROPERTY OWNER AND DEVELOPER.

I'M GOING TO LET HIM SPEAK ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND.

HE ALSO OWNS A PARTIAL RESIDENTIAL PLUMBING COMPANY THAT'S BEEN KIND OF A STAPLE HERE IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

THIS IS KIND OF A PRIZE PROJECT FOR HIM.

HE HAS FAMILY AND FRIENDS IN THE COMMUNITY.

AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE, OVER 50 YEARS AGO, THE VISIONARIES SAW THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BIG NEED FOR A COMMERCIAL CENTER INSIDE THE SHORES.

SORRY. SO THERE WE ARE.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF HOMES UNDER DEVELOPMENT NOW.

MORE PLANNING COMING. A BIG RETAIL GAP IN THE AREA.

[01:00:02]

SO SHANE IS DEVELOPING THE SHORES BOULEVARD DEVELOPMENT WITH SIX BUILDINGS, SIX FREE- STANDING BUILDINGS, ONE OF WHICH WE SEE A TREMENDOUS NEED FOR LICENSING AS A COMMUNITY PACKAGE STORE. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY TO ASK YOUR PERMISSION FOR MODIFICATION.

THE OVERWHELMING NEED COMES FROM, AS I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE, IF YOU'RE OUT ON U.S. 1, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON U.S. 1 AND THE SHORES COMMUNITY IS GROWING SO THAT IT CAN BE SOMEWHAT SELF-SUFFICIENT SO THESE FOLKS DON'T HAVE TO GET OUT ON U.S. 1 TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILY AND THE COMMUNITY. SO WE HAVE A LOT OF INTEREST IN THE DEVELOPMENT SINCE OUR SIGN WENT UP.

WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF THE COMMUNITY CALL US, ASKING US, WHAT'S GOING TO BE GOING THERE AND GIVING US IDEAS OF WHAT THEY THINK WE MAY NEED.

SO RIGHT NOW, WE'VE GOT A COMMUNITY BIKE SHOP THAT'S GOING IN, A YOGA STORE, POTENTIALLY A COFFEE SHOP, A HAIR SALON, AND A NAIL SALON AS WELL AS SOME MEDICAL RETAIL- ORIENTED AND A PACKAGE STORE HOPEFULLY. I'M GOING TO LET MR. JACKSON SPEAK ABOUT JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND ON HIMSELF AND HOW HE ARRIVED AT THIS POINT.

>> THANK YOU. I THINK JULIE IS PRETTY MUCH COVERED THE BASIS OF HOW WE GOT HERE, WHAT BROUGHT US HERE TODAY.

I WANT TO GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS -- I'M SORRY, MY NAME IS SHANE JACKSON, 7350 OLD STATE ROAD 207, FLORIDA. LIKE JULIE SAID, I'M THE OWNER AND DEVELOPER OF THE PROJECT. I MADE A COUPLE PREPARED REMARKS THAT ADDRESS PROBABLY THE CONCERNS THAT MAYBE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VOICING OUT. WE KNOW THAT THE I'M REQUESTING IT STARTED WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE A PACKAGE STORE IS SOMETHING TAT IS APPROVED ON THE PUD BY EXCEPTION. WE DO KNOW THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH 1,000- FOOT PROXIMITY TO THE SCHOOL. I WANT TO SAY A COUPLE THINGS ABOUT THAT FIRST. NUMBER ONE, LIKE SAID, WE ALREADY HAVE THE USE HAS BEEN CON CONTEMPLATED FROM 50 YEARS AGO. THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER, I ALWAYS SAY, WAS AHEAD OF HIS TIME BECAUSE 50 YEARS AGO, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS WASN'T AN IDEA. WE KIND OF HAD THE TOWN CENTER IDEA MENTALITY.

BACK IN THE LATE '70S WHEN THE SHORES WERE BEING DEVELOPED, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, MOST WAS BEING DEVELOPED. SO A LOT OF FUTURE DEVELOPMENT WAS COMING DOWN THE U.S. 1 CORRIDOR. SO NOW FAST FORWARD TO HOW WE BUILD AND KIND OF OUR ANTISPRAWL RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN FLORIDA, WE'RE ALL AWARE THAT A COMMUNITY THIS SIZE COULD NEVER BE BUILT NOWADAYS WITHOUT HAVING A MINIMUM OF A MILLION SQUARE FOOT RETAIL SPACE.

THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A SELF-CONTAINED AREA FOR THE RESIDENTS.

TO KEEP EVERYBODY KIND OF WITHIN BOUNDS.

SO I WANT TO GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS THE PROXIMITY TO THE CHURCH.

THIS IS IN A COMMERCIALLY ZONED DISTRICT, SO THERE'S NO HOMES ON THAT PORTION OF SHORES BOULEVARD.

WE ARE WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET OF THE CHURCH, BUT I DO WANT TO SAY ABOUT THAT THAT THERE ALREADY IS A LIQUOR STORE IN THE SHORES OUT ON U.S. 1.

AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY SINGULAR EXAMPLE OF ANY LIQUOR STORES THAT WE HAVE. WE DO VM SOME INTEREST FROM RESPECTABLE, LOCAL ENTREPRENEURS THAT ALREADY HAVE A LIQUOR LICENSE, OWNS SEVERAL STORES, AND SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WOULD COME UP WOULD APPLY.

ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS IS NOT FOR ON SITE CONSUMPTION.

THIS IS REALLY NOTHING DIFFERENT THAN THE WALGREENS THAT HAS A LIQUOR STORE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE COMPATIBILITY. UNLIKE BAR, THEY DON'T CREATE ANY ON SITE CONSUMPTION. THERE'S NO OUTSIDE GATHERING OF ANY SORT. NO NOISE-PRODUCING ACTIVITIES, NOTHING LIKE THAT. IT BASICALLY GENERATES LOW TRAFFIC. IT PRODUCES NO LATE- NIGHT ACTIVITIES, AND IT DOESN'T N INTRODUCE ANY SAFETY OR NOISE CONCERNS BEYOND THE NORMAL RETAIL LEVELS THAT WE HAVE.

IT IS AN IMPROVEMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT IS WELL RECEIVED.

YOU RECEIVED A LOT OF CONCERNS FROM SOME PEOPLE, BUT

[01:05:01]

OVERWHELMINGLY, THE SHORES IS EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

AND IF I DON'T HAVE 300 CUSTOMERS, I TOEBT HAVE ONE.

AND A LOT OF THIS IDEA WAS PUT IN MY HEAD BECAUSE OVER TIME AS I'M GETTING OLDER AND GRUMPIER AND KNOWING MY CUSTOMERS MORE, A LOT OF TIMES WE COMMISERATE OVER THE HEAT AND THE TRAFFIC. AND I WATCHED THE PAST 20 YEARS A LOT OF MY CUSTOMERS GET OLD. A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THEY DO NOT LIKE GOING OUT ON TO U.S. 1 FOR THE TRAFFIC. THAT WAS KIND OF THE GENESIS OF THE IDEA FOR ME. MY IN- LAWS LIVE IN THE SHORES. MY SON AND GRAND KIDS LIVE IN THE SHORES. WE'RE CLOSE IN THE COMMUNITY. WE'RE IN THERE SEVERAL TIMES A A WEEK, JUTTING KIDS BACK AND FORTH, GOING TO FAMILY DIN IRS AND EVERYTHING OF THE SORT. SO I FEEL LIKE ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING IN HERE IS GOING TO BENEFIT THE SHORES. ONE OF THE -- THE OTHER THING THAT DROVE ME IS I KNOW THAT WITH THE TYPE OF RETAIL DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE NOW, A LOT OF THE LOCAL ENTREPRENEURS AND SMALLER BUSINESSES GET PUSHED OUT. THEY ARE NOT NATIONAL CREDIT TENANTS, THEY DON'T EVEN GET THE LIGHT OF DAY.

AND MOST OF THE UNITS ARE TOO BIG AND CAN'T AFFORD IT.

SO TO KEEP THIS THING FEASIBLE, PART OF MY OVERALL VISION WAS I DELIBERATELY CREATED SMALLER UNITS TO ALLOW THE NAIL SALONS AND THE PET GROOMERS, THE PACKAGE STORES, THE COFFEE SHOPS, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS TO THRIVE AND NOT ONLY HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN LEASE, BUT THEY CAN ALSO BRING SOME THINGS THAT WE NEED TO THAT COMMUNITY. MOST OF YOU KNOW, YOU PASS SOUTH ON WALMART ON U.S. 1, THERE'S NOT A LOT THERE. I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS THAT THAT PART OF TOWN, WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO.

WE CAN ONLY JAM SO MANY PEOPLE UP TOWARDS TARGET AND WALMART.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO GO ON AND ON ABOUT THAT, BUT THE LAST THING THAT I DO WANT TO SAY ABOUT THIS IS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY WELL- KEPT MAINTAINED UNIT.

I'M VERTICALLY INTEGRATED, SO I'M THE OWNER, DEVELOPER AND I'M GOING TO BE THE OPERATOR.

MONTHS AGO I SAT DOWN FOR HOURS AND HOURS WITH MY COUNSEL AND BASICALLY CAME UP WITH AN IRONCLAD SET OF RULES AND REGULAR LIGSSS THAT IS GOING TO GOVERN THIS UNIT FOREVER.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ADAMANT ABOUT IS THE ESTHETICS, NOISE, MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S NO SAFETY ISSUES, NO OTHER CONCERNS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND WE HAVE REALLY PUT TOGETHER, I THINK, A PRETTY GOOD DOCUMENT MOVING FORWARD THAT WOULD DIRECTLY COUNTER ANY SORT OF CONCERNS THAT I THINK A LOT OF THE RESIDENTS WOULD HAVE.

WE CAN SHARE THAT A AT ANY TIME, BUT BASICALLY, I THINK THAT'S IT.

LIKE I SAID, THIS WAS HOPEFULLY MY LAST HURDLE.

I HAVE DEALING WITH THIS FOR THREE YEARS NOW GOING THROUGH THE ENTITLEMENT PHASE.

WE'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD. THIS CAME UP AND JUST KIND OF THREW ONE OTHER HURDLE FOR US TO TRY TO GET PAST BEFORE WE STARTED THE DEVELOPMENT.

>> IF I COULD, I DID WANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE USE RESTRICTIONS THAT WE HAVE THAT WILL BE DEED RESTRICTIONS FOR THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE A WALKABLE, BIKABLE AREA THAT THE RESIDENTS OF THE SHORES CAN USE WITHOUT HAVING TO GET OUT AND CREATE MORE TRAFFIC ON U.S. 1. SOME OF THE TEED RESTRICTIONS ARE THE SELL OF CANNABIS OR REMOTELY RELATED TO IT, ANY VAPES OR TOBACCO PRODUCTS, OTHER THAN HIGH- END CIGARS WILL HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY ON SITE MANAGEMENT. NO DUAL- USE PRODUCTS. THAT WAS SOMETHING I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH, BUT DOING RESEARCH, WE BECAME FAMILIAR.

ANYTHING THAT CAN BE USED TO ALSO BE USED IN SOME SORT OF ELICIT MANNER ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO BE SOLD IN THIS PACKAGE STORE.

NOTHING OF A SEXUAL NATURE, NOTHING THAT IS CONSIDERED BY MANAGEMENT TO BE FORM OF MERCHANDISE OR PARAPHERNALIA THAT'S MARKETED IN A CANNABIS CULTURE, NO CHECK CASHING, PAYDAY LOANS THAT YOU MAY SEE IN PROBABLY NOT EVEN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, BUT MAYBE OTHER AREAS THAT YOU'D CONSIDER NOT APPROPRIATE FOR TRAVELING ON FOOT OR WITH YOUR FAMILIES.

IN SHORT, WE HAVE GONE TO A LOT OF WORK TO CREATE DEED RESTRICTIONS THAT WILL STAY WITH THE LAND FOREVER, AS SHANE WAS SAYING, OR AS LONG AS LEGALLY PERMISSIBLE WITH THIS

[01:10:02]

PARTICULAR PROPERTY TO SO THAT IT MAINS A WHOLESOME, FAMILY-ORIENTED CLIMATE, SUCH AS WHAT YOU'D EXPECT IF YOU WERE WALKING OUT OF A PUBLIX PACKAGE STORE. WE HAVE ALSO EXTENDED THAT TO ADVERTISING GUIDELINES AS FAR AS WHAT THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING CAN LOOK AT, THE TYPES OF THINGS THEY CAN ADVERTISE, NO NEON.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO A REALLY -- I SEARCHED FOR A BETTER WORD, BE BUT A REALLY CLASSY LOOK FROM THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND INTO THE STORE.

THERE'S ALSO A DEED RESTRICTION THAT RESTRICTS THE PERCENTAGE OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS THAT CAN BE SOLD IN THE STORE.

I'D ALSO LIKE JUST TO COMMENT. I KNOW THAT MANY MEMBERS OF THE PANEL MAYBE AWARE, BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS, IN ORDER TO OPEN A PACKAGE STORE IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, THE PROPRIETOR HAS TO PURCHASE A FOUR-SERIES LICENSE.

THESE ARE LIMITED BY STATUTE AND BY POPULATION IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, CAN YOU TELL ME MEHOW LICENSES THERE ARE CURRENTLY? 72 LICENSES IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY. THEY ARE LIMITED BY POPULATION.

SO AS YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW, BUT AGAIN, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC MAY NOT BE, THEY ARE VERY EXPENSIVE. YOU CAN'T JUST APPLY TO THE STATE AND GET ONE. AND RIGHT NOW, THE MARKET VALUE OF ONE OF THESE LICENSES IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN $650 AND $750,000.

OUR FIRM REGULARLY SELLS THESE WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE, WHICH IS VERY RARELY.

AND WE HAVE SEEN THEM SELL AS MUCH AS A MILLION DOLLARS.

THAT'S A HUGE INVESTMENT THAT THE OWNER HAS TO UNDERTAKE IN ORDER TO OPEN A PACKAGE STORE.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THEIR INVENTORY CAN'T BE FINANCED LIKE IT CAN IN MANY RETAIL STORES OR DRESS SHOPS, SO THEY HAVE TO PAY CASH FOR THAT. SO THEY ARE LOOKING AT ABOUT ANOTHER MILLION DOLLARS OF INVENTORY.

THAT'S A LOT FOR AN ENTREPRENEUR TO ABSORB.

THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THEY HAVE A HUGE INVESTMENT THAT THEY CAN LOSE, LOSE BECAUSE THE STATE WILL SEIZE THEIR LICENSE, IF IT THEY AREN'T IN COMPLIANCE. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS LICENSING GOING OUT AND ALLOWING ANY SORT OF CONSUMPTION ON THEIR PROPERTY, THEY ARE RISKING AN ENORMOUS INVESTMENT, AND IT IS, IN FACT, A JAILABLE OFFENSE FOR THEM TO GO OUTSIDE THEIR LICENSE. SO THAT'S WHY YOU TYPICALLY DON'T SEE IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY WHEN WE HAVE A REALLY WONDERFUL LOCAL POLICE FORCE, YOU DON'T SEE PEOPLE STANDING OUTSIDE OF LIQUOR STORES DRINKING BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED BY THE OWNERS OF THE STORE AND THEY HAVE NO UNDERGO RIGOROUS TRAINING IN THE LICENSE LAW TO NOT ONLY KEEP THEIR LICENSE, BUT ALSO TO KEEP THEIR INSURANCE, WHICH IS ANOTHER HUGE EXPENSE. I MEAN, MOST OF THESE PROPRIETORS SPEND $20 TO $30,000 A YEAR ON LIABILITY INSURANCE. SO THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T SEE PEOPLE STANDING OUTSIDE OF LIQUOR STORES IN ST.

JOHNS COUNTY DRINKING, DOING CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES. THIS IS PACKAGE SALES ONLY.

BUY YOUR GROCERIES AND PACKAGED ITEMS AND LEAVE. SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.

I RESPECT YOUR DECISION.

WE'D LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO MAYBE HAS SOME QUESTIONS AS WELL.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. MR. OLSON, QUESTIONS?

>> YES. LET ME SEE WHERE TO START.

YOUR PLAN SHOWS OFFICE USE ON THIS SITE PLUS A FUTURE FULL- SERVICE RESTAURANT. S IT'S A SMALL ACTIVITY.

MOST OF THE LIQUOR STORES IN IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE IN LARGER NEIGHBORHOOD- ORIENTED, BUSIER SUPERMARKET ANCHORED DEVELOPMENTS. THIS IS NOT THAT.

IN FACT, I GUESS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS WHY DID YOU WANT A LIQUOR STORE BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE TO DRIVE TO U.S. 1 AND CROSS IT TO GET GROCERIES, WOULDN'T

[01:15:02]

THAT BE A BIGGER NEED FOR THIS AREA AND OTHER CONVENIENCE ITEMS THAT PEOPLE NEED ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS? I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHY A LIQUOR STORE?

>> WELL, AGAIN, IT'S NOT MY DIRECT CHOICE. THIS IS FOR FUTURE TENANCY. LIKE I SAID, THERE HAS BEEN -- THERE IS INTEREST RIGHT NOW FOR THE LIQUOR STORE. WHAT METRICS THEY RUN OFF OF, I'M NOT REALLY SURE. IF I I HAD TO SAY, I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY POPULATION DENSITY. THE ST. AUGUSTINE SHORES IS THE MOST DENSELY POPULATED AREA OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY PER MILE.

I THINK MAYBE THE SOUTH EDGES IT OUT BY 100 PEOPLE, BUT THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE INCLUDINGINCLUDING ST.

JOHNS, ANYWHERE ELSE THAT HAS THAT MANY ROOFTOPS WITHIN A ONE- MILE RADIUS. SO I THINK THEY ARE PROBABLY TARGETING.

I REALLY THINK THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY IS TARGETING.

ALL THE TENANTS THAT I HAVE ARE BANKING ON KEEPING THIS WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SHORES.

WHETHER WE ADMIT IT OR NOT, IT'S ALL BASED OFF OF CONVENIENCE. EVERYTHING IS HOW FAST, HOW CONVENIENT, LESS AGGRAVATION. THAT'S PROBABLY PLAYING INTO THE MIND SET OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN. I THINK THEY SHARED THE SAME OPINION THAT I DID THAT THERE'S PENT UP DEMAND IN THE SHORES. I HAVE TOTAL CONFIDENCE IN THE PEOPLE OF THE SHORES IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO BE MANAGED, HOW THEY ARE GOING TO REACT TO THIS TYPE OF STUFF.

I HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE SHORES FOR 20 YEARS SINCE I HAVE BEEN AT ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

AND SO TO GET BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, WHAT DRIVES ANY BUSINESS OWNER TO COME TO THE AREA? I DON'T KNOW PERSONALLY. I AM JUST KIND OF THE VEHICLE TO ALLOW IT TO COME IN. BUT AGAIN, I WILL SAY THAT IT IS BEING RECEIVED POSITIVELY.

THAT'S ALSO WITH THE LIQUOR STORE.

I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO GO TO THE LIQUOR STORE. IF THEY CAN JUST GO AROUND THE CORNER AND NOT EVEN HIT A RED LIGHT AND GRAB SOMETHING TO DRINK OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT THEY'D SELL WITHIN THERE, IT'S MORE OF A CONVENIENCE THING.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU.

AND THEN DISTANCE. THE DISTANCE, THE NEED TO -- THE FACT THAT THERE'S MINIMAL DISTANCE BETWEEN THE ADJACENT USES. THE TYPICAL -- THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS VARIANCES GRANTED, BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE WITH EXCEPTION, FOR RESTAURANTS THAT WANT TO -- FULL- SERVICE RESTAURANTS THAT WANT TO BE ABLE TO SERVE ON SITE LIQUOR WITH MEALS, WITH DINING, AND ALL OF THAT, THE PRESENTATION Y'ALL MADE JUST NOW SUGGESTED THAT RESTAURANT WITH LIQUOR SALES ON SITE WOULD BE LESS DESIRABLE THAN AN OFF- SITE LIQUOR STORE. AND I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I ENDED UP DOING SOME RESEARCH. IT LACKS LIKE IF THERE IS A PROBLEM CREATED BY THE PRESENCE OF ONE OR MORE LIQUOR STORES, IT'S THE STORES. IT'S NOT THE RESTAURANTS. SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO COMMENT OR ADDRESS THAT?

>> I'M NOT REALLY SURE OF ANY DIRECT ISSUE THAT THE LIQUOR STORE IS GOING TO CREATE.

I KNOW THERE MAYBE PERCEIVED ISSUES, BUT AGAIN, I CAN'T FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I CAN'T POINT TO ANY ONE SINGULAR INCIDENT OR ANY OTHER LIQUOR STORE THAT I HAVE EVER PERSONALLY VISITED WHERE IHAVE BEEN HARASSED BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE DRINKING, THE TYPE OF IMAGERY YOU CAN IMAGINE, SOMEBODY DRUNK OUTSIDE OF THAT CAUSING PROBLEMS. IT'S NOT A BAR OR NIGHTCLUB.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO NORMAL RETAIL HOURS. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE OPEN LATE.

SO I MEAN IF WE SAT HERE AND THOUGHT OF ENOUGH, I COULD PROBABLY COME UP WITH SOME THINGS THAT MAYBE COULD BE, BUT THAT'S ALL SPECULATIVE AT THIS POINT. I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY SORT OF HISTORY IN THE AREA TO POINT TO ANY ISSUES.

>> OKAY. JUST ONE MORE QUESTION. EXCUSE ME FOR BEING PRESSING ON THESE.

COUNSEL HAS ADVISED US THAT ON THESE MODIFICATIONS OF PUDS THAT A VALID QUESTION TO POSE IN EVIDENCE IS HARDSHIP.

[01:20:08]

WHAT WOULD THE HARDSHI BE IF THE LIQUOR STORE COULD NOT BE IN THIS LOCATION IN THE DEVELOPMENT? AGAIN, I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER USES, BUT I'M JUST THINKING.

>> I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THE HARDSHIP WOULD PROBABLY BE -- THE OWNER WOULD PROBABLY BARE THAT HARDSHIP.

THE FUTURE TENANT WOULD OWN THE HARDSHIP OF NOT HAVING THE RIGHT LOCATION TO SUIT HIS NEEDS AND HIS BUSINESS PLAN.

AND THEN THERE'S HARDSHIP ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IF THERE WERE A WAY TO TAKE A TALLY OR A VOTE OF THE 10 TO 12,000 PEOPLE THATTHAT IN THERE, AT LEAST JUST OFF OF MY OBSERVATIONS, I WOULD SAY PROBABLY THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY WOULD BE POSITIVE FOR THE LIQUOR STORE.

JULIE MAY HAVE ANOTHER ANSWER AS FAR AS THE HARDSHIP.

THE HARDSHIP, TO ME, IS THE LOSS OF THE TENANT. THAT'S PROBABLY MY BIGGEST FINANCIAL HARDSHIP I WOULD HAVE TO SAY.

THAT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT FOR ME.

>> THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL, MR. CHAIR.

>> I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION. IN OUR DRAFT CONDITIONS TO THE PERMIT, IT SAYS ON THE APPROVAL SIDE, APPROVAL OF THE MINOR MODIFICATION IS GRANTED TO MARKET FORCE CRE DOING BUSINESS AT A THE ABOVE LOCATION AND SHALL BE NONTRANSFERABLE.

>> THAT WAS AN ERROR. IT SHOULD BE TO MR. SHANE JACKSON WITH THE COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS. I HAVE IT WRITTEN DOWN .

>> IF WITH DON'T GET THAT RIGHT, YOU'LL BE BACK HERE AGAIN.

>> IT WOULD BE -- THANK YOU. WE HAD SPOKEN ABOUT THAT.

IT SHOULD BE THE 2020 COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS A LLC, THANK YOU.

>> I HAVE THAT WRITTEN, IF THAT HELPS.

>> THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I HAD.

>> I THINK THE DESIRE FOR A LIQUOR STORE IS A WORLD VIEW THING.

SO MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE POSITIVE.

BUT ALL OF THE E-MAILS WE GOT WERE IN OPPOSITION.

ANY I DON'T KNOW IF THE OVERWHELMING SUPPORT.

MAYBE THERE, MAYBE NOT. CAN CAN YOU TELL ME THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THIS LOCATION AND THE THREE LIQUOR STORES THAT ARE

IMMEDIATELY IN THE AREA? >> APPROXIMATELY A MILE.

A MILE OR SO I WOULD SAY OUT ON TO U.S. 1, OUT ON TO THE MAIN

CORRIDOR. >> THIS IS MY NEIGHBORHOOD, MY NECK OF THE WOODS. SO I HAPPEN TO KNOW. IF I COULD ALSO COMMENT TO THAT, THE OTHER LIQUOR STORES ARE MUCH SMALLER THAN WHAT THIS WOUD BE. BECAUSE OF THE LARGE -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE PUBLIX AND THE WINN DIXIE, THEY ARE SMALLER IN AREA AND CARRY LESS INVENTORY BECAUSE OF THE SIZE. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO TRAVEL ALL THE WAY DOWN U.S. 1 TO EITHER THE NEW ABC OR THE STORE, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT IT'S QUITE A DISTANCE. AND THE REASON THAT PUBLIX AND WINN DIXIE WENT TO PUTTING THESE ANCILLARY LIQUOR STORES BESIDE THEIR GROCERY STORES IS BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED ONE STOP.

THEY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO GO OUT, GET THEIR GROCERIES, HAVE THEIR WINE AND BEER AND BEVERAGE SELECTIONS AS WELL AND TAKE IT ALL HOME. THE PEOPLE IN THE SHORES, AND WE'VE GOT A SIZABLE POPULATION, HOW MANY HOUSEHOLDS? OVER 4,000 AND GROWING, GROWING, GROWING. ALL THE BUILD RERS IN THERE NOW. THEY EITHER BOUGHT LAND AND DEVELOPING. IT'S A DESERT BETWEEN THE SHORES AND SOUTH.

THERE'S NOTHING THERE FOR PEOPLE TO SHOP IN EXCEPT ONE SHOPPING CENTER THAT HAS THE AL DAY STORE AND THE SMALL LIQUOR STORE THERE. THIS IS GOING TO BE LARGER AND CARRY MORE INVENTORY.

AND HAVING IT THERE, WE HAVE OTHER BUILDINGS. WE ARE IN SEARCH OF THE SMALL GROCERY STORE.

WE HAVE SPOKEN TO SOME LOCAL PEOPLE THAT MAYBE INTERESTED IN A SMALL GROCERY STORE THERE. THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE SHORES. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE THINGS THAT ARE COMPATIBLE

[01:25:01]

SO THEY CAN DO THAT ONE- STOP SHOPPING THING. IT WILL BE LARGER THAN ANY OF THOSE STORES. AND HOPEFULLY CARRY MORE INVENTORY AND SPECIALTY PRODUCTS AS WELL.

>> SO THE INTENTION ISN'T JUST INTERNAL CAPTURE.

THIS IS INTENDED TO BE A MARKETING FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO COME?

>> NOT REALLY. WE DO HAVE SIGNAGE THAT'S GOING TO BE OUT ON U.S. 1, BUT WE SEE OVERWHELMINGLY THE SHORES IS GROWING.

AND WE HAVE A LOT OF TURNOVER IN THE SHORES.

A LOT OF YOUNGER FAMILIES COMING IN.

THE DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE CHANGED VERY QUICKLY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THE SHORES IS PEOPLE RETIRE AND MOVE OUT AND YOUNGER FAMILIES MOVE IN, REMODEL HOUSES, AND I'M SURE YOU HAVE SEEN THE PRICE RANGE GOES UP. SO PEOPLE DEMAND MORE.

SO IT'S JUST KIND OF A NEW THING. THE VISIONARIES THAT DEVELOPED IT, THEY THOUGHT OF THIS 50 YEARS AGO.

THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE GOING TO NEED SOME INTERNAL BASIS FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT INSIDE THE SHORES.

THAT'S WHY THIS PROPERTY IS THERE.

SHANE WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE SOME OF THAT CONTINUED VISION, I THINK. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS AS MUCH OF A COMPACT COMMUNITY. PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE IF WE CAN PROVIDE WHAT THEY NEED INSIDE THE COMMUNITY. THAT HELPS US WITH THE TRAFFIC.

I THINK THE TRAFFIC COUNT OUT THERE RIGHT NOW ON U.S. 1 IS 34,000 AND CLIMBING. IF YOU HAVE BEEN ON U.S. 1 DURING THE RUSH HOUR, IT TAKES YOU A LONG TIME TO GET HOME, EVEN A LOT LONGER TO GET TO THE GROCERY STORE AND BACK.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION REGARD TENANCY.

YOUR DOCUMENTS DO SAY TENANCY. SO THAT MILLION-DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN THE LICENSE AND MILLION-DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN THE STOCK, WHO WOULD BE MAKING THAT INVESTMENT?

>> THAT WOULD BE THE TENANT.

>> SO THAT'S THE RISK IS THE TENANT.

>> AND CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME COMPETENCE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO THE TREMENDOUS NEED FOR THIS LIQUOR STORE? YOU MENTIONED THAT A COUPLE TIMES AT THE BEGINNING THERE'S A TREMENDOUS NEED. DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT STATEMENT?

>> JUST ANECDOTALLY. >> JULIE WOULD SPEAK MORE TO THAT. IT'S A DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH ACTUAL BUSINESS OWNERS.

>> THAT'S JUST YOUR IMPRESSION.

>> I MEAN, RIGHT NOW, HERE'S OUR NUMBERS GUY.

>> THAT'S GOOD. I LIKE FACTS.

>> I'M THE NUMBERS GUY. I'M NOT SURE IF WE PRINTED IT OUT, BUT WE MIGHT HAVE PROVIDED IT WITH THE PRESENTATION. AS PART OF SHANE'S DUE DILIGENCE. HE RETAILED A GAP REPORT. THE RETAIL SPENDING WITHIN THE RADIUS. AND LOOKS AT WHERE SPENDING ORIGINATES AND WHERE IT ACTUALLY GOES. SO WITHIN -- I BELIEVE IT IS --

>> YOU CAN TALK INTO THE MIC.

>> I THINK THIS STUDY MIGHT LUMP IT IN UNDER -- HERE WE GO.

ONE- MILE RADIUS. SO THIS IS JUST THE ONE- MILE RADIUS OF THE SILENT. SO THIS COLUMN HERE IS THE THE DEMAND. AND THEN THIS IS THE GAP ANALYSIS STUDY. AND SO WE'VE GOT DEMAND OF OUR SALES OF -- HERE IT IS.

DEMAND SALES OF 2. 9 MILLION IN THE 3- MILE RADIUS AND ACTUAL SALES OF 2.65. THE GAP OF $300,000 THERE IN JUST LIQUOR. THAT'S ONLY THE LIQUOR ASPECT.

THAT DOESN'T COUNT FOR THE BEER AND WINE THAT'S NORMALLY COVERED. GENERALLY WITH A LIQUOR STORE, YOU HAVE ABOUT A 40/40/20 SPLIT.

SO ALL THAT COMBINED TO A MILLION DOLLARS IN SALES IS

[01:30:01]

ABOUT THE THRESHOLD. AND AGAIN, THAT MAP SOMEWHERE, REGARDLESS, THAT ONE- MILE DRIVE RADIUS IS RIGHT WITHIN THE FIVE-MINUTE DRIVE TIME. BUT WE SPOKE ABOUT THE ONE AT PUBLIX.

THERE'S THE SHORES LIQUOR. AND THE THIRD ONE AT THE WINN DIXIE TO THE SOUTH. ALL THREE OF THOSE ARE IN THE DRIVE TIME FROM THIS SITE VERSUS, OBVIOUSLY, THROUGH THE DRIVE TIME SEEING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE ON THE EAST SIDE OF U.S. 1.

UNTIL LITERALLY A MONTH AGO, I LIVED ABOUT 300 FEET TO THE SOUTH OF THIS SITE. SHE MENTIONED THE YOUNGER DEMOGRAPHIC. WE'RE ONE OF THOSE.

THE LAST THING, THIS SITE HAD THIS SHOPPING CENTER WITH A LIQUOR STORE.

WHEN YOU LOCK AT THE DYNAMICS OF WHO OWNS THE LIQUOR LICENSES IN FLORIDA, IT SKEWS HEAVILY TOWARDS THE NATIONAL PACKAGING BRANDS AND THE NATIONAL GROCERS.

THEY OWN 50 TO 60% OF THE LICENSES IN THE COUNTY. AND WE COULD TALK ABOUT WHEN SALES HAPPEN AND WHEN THEY BUY THEM, PUBLIX, WINN DIXIE, WALMART, WALGREENS BUY THE VAST MAJORITY OF ALL NEW LICENSES ISSUED.

THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE PRICING OF THESE THINGS.

WHY YOU DON'T SEE LIQUOR STORES IN WHAT MIGHT BE THE ATYPICAL SETTINGS ARE NOT NECESSARILY A REFLECTION OF THE MARKET DEMAND.

BUT IT'S BECAUSE THE NATIONAL CHAINS HAVE A MONOPOLY ON THE LICENSES. THEY CAN GET TO THE LICENSES FASTER BECAUSE THEY PAY MORE FOR

THEM. >> YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU, BUT GO AHEAD.

>> THAT'S FINE. I APOLOGIZE. WHAT YOU JUST SAID MAYBE THE CASE, BUT THE OTHER THING IS THAT THESE LARGE HIGH- VOLUME GROCERY STORES AND WALMARTS HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF THE COME AND GO TRAFFIC WALKING RIGHT PAST THOSE STORES. I ASSUME THAT'S ANOTHER LUCRATIVE REASON.

THIS CENTER, THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER USES THAT -- OR THERE WOULD BE FEW USES THAT WOULD GENERATE ON SITE PRESENCE OF CUSTOMERS OTHER THAN DRIVING TO THIS. SO AGAIN, I HAVE CONCERNS THAT HAVING CONVENIENCE COMMERCIAL FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD SOUNDS GOOD AND NEEDED, BUT I QUESTION WHETHER IT NEEDS TO START WITH A LIQUOR STORE. MAYBE AT SOME POINT A GOOD START MIGHT BE THIS FULL- SERVICE RESTAURANT HAVING A LIQUOR LICENSE RATHER THAN HAVING A USE THAT IN ITSELF IS PROBABLY THE HIGHEST VOLUME ANCHOR FOR THIS CENTER.

I'M NOT EXPRESSING MYSELF REALLY WELL, BUT I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND TO WHAT WAS SAID. AND ALSO, I EXPECT THE GAP ANALYSIS SHOWS OTHER OPPORTUNITIES OTHER THAN A LIQUOR STORE THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD MIGHT BENEFIT FROM BEING HERE.

>> SURE.

THE TOTAL SITE, THE TOTAL DEVELOPMENT IS 20,000 SQUARE FEET. WE'RE TALKING 3,000 SQUARE FEET FOR THE LIQUOR STORE. THIS ISN'T JUST ONE STORE THAT WE'RE TALKING. WE'RE TALKING BUILDING THREE.

WE ALREADY HAVE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT TENANTS.

ALL BASICALLY SERVICE BASED THAT'S COMING INTO THE SHORES.

IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT THIS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT IS ACCEPTED THAT IS APPROVED USE BY EXCEPTION.

EVERYTHING ELSE, THE ZONING COVERS A WIDE ARRAY OF USES TO IT.

SO THREE MONTHS AGO, WE THOUGHT WE WERE DONE.

WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE UP HERE

[01:35:01]

REQUESTING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT UNTIL THE OPPORTUNITY PRESENTED ITSELF. IS I'M DEVELOPING WHAT WE HAVE IN DIFFERENT TYPES OF TENANCY THAT WAS DESCRIBED EARLIER. OWE DPA STUDIO. THIS IS ALL ENCOMPASSING.

THIS ISN'T JUST FOCUSING ON LIQUOR SALES. THE RESTAURANT WAS KIND OF THE RESTAURANT IDEA TO ME WAS KIND OF THE CATALYST FOR ALL THIS. I JUST FELT LIKE, HEY, WE DESERVE A PLACE TO GO EAT SOUTH OF WALMART.

YOU CAN ONLY GO TO LONG HORNS AND OUTBACK SO MUCH IN THAT AREA. THAT WAS PROBABLY THE CATALYST.

THAT WAS THE ORIGIN OF ALL THIS. SO MY AGENTS HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB TRYING TO PUT A GOOD TENANT MIX TOGETHER.

THE SIZE OF THE UNITS AND THE COMPLEX WAS A REFLECTION OF THAT BASED OFF THE GAP REPORT. I DID THAT THREE YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS DOING MY OWN FEASIBILITY REPORT AS NIGHT AS A PLUMBER TRYING TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER. I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THE NUMBERS.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE THINGS THAT THE REPORT THAT KIND OF PRESENTED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE AND JULIA PRESENTED IT AS WELL. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS, I'M GLAD HE INTERJECTED BECAUSE THAT WAS A GREAT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. THAT THROUGH THE RETAIL GAP REPORT, IT SHOWS THE LEAKAGE ESSENTIALLY, SO WITHIN ONE MILE, HOW MUCH BUILT- UP DEMAND THERE IS AND IN SOME CASES FOR RESTAURANT, I THINK IT'S OVER $2 MILLION FOR FULL-SERVICE RESTAURANTS. THE ACTUAL SUPPLY IS $300,000. THAT MEANS $1. 7 MILLION WORTH OF REVENUE LEAVES THAT TRADE AREA TO GO TO OTHER AREAS. SO IF YOU LOOKED ON THAT F WE LOOKED AT THE ONE- MILE RADIUS THAT ENCOMPASSES ALL OF THE SHORES, EVERYTHING IS IN THE GREEN, MEANING THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERY SORT OF TYPE OF INDUSTRIAL CLASS THAT THEY HAVE ON THAT REPORT. SO THAT'S WHAT SAID.

IN MY MIND, THAT'S SOMEBODY THAT'S JUST KIND OF I HAVE BEEN A BUILDER FOR YEARS. I HAVE BEEN IN CONSTRUCTION FOR 31 YEARS. BUT TO RETRAIN MY BRAIN INTO RETAIL, I'M THE GUY THAT BUILDS THE BUILDINGS, BUT I'M NOT THE GUY THAT'S GOING TO OWN IT AND START THIS FROM SCRATCH. WHEN I WAS DOING MY RESEARCH, THAT'S WHAT MADE ME REALLY THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS FEASIBLE IN THE SHORES. AND THE FACT THAT IT WAS ALREADY THERE AND IT WAS THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPER'S VISION 50 YEARS AGO, I THINK JUST REENFORCED MY CONFIDENCE IN THE PROJECT.

>> I JUST HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT. I WAS STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF MINE. JUST ONE THING TO SAY. I HAVE A REALLY BIG CONCERN WITH THE CHURCH BEING CLOSE BY. YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVEN'T EVER KNOWN OF ANYTHING BAD HAPPENING, THERE'S A REASON THAT WE HAVE THE CODE.

THE CODE MAYBE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, THAT IS THE CODE THAT WE HAVE. AND I HAVE A VERY BIG PROBLEM WITH TWO CHURCHES. THE OTHER IS 1,060 FEET AWAY.

AND THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION TO THIS.

THAT WAS A BIG OPPOSITION TO ME SPEAKING FOR THAT.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S GOING TO BE PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED ALL MY ISSUES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> I WILL SAY ONE LAST THING AND HAND IT OVER TO THE COMMITTEE. I HAVE TOUCHED BASE WITH THE CHURCH FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN I STARTED THE PROCESS. I WENT DOWN AND INTRODUCED MYSELF.

SO WHEN WE FILED FOR THE MODIFICATION, I DID GO DOWN AND SPEAK TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH, THE DEACONS, AND TOLD THEM WHAT WE WERE DOING. I SAID IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO TALK, PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL. AND I HAVEN'T HAD ANY DIRECT CONVERSATIONS AFTER THAT. BUT I DID GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY, GAVE THEM THE HEADS OF UP UP OF WHAT WE WERE LOOKING TO DO. I NEVER MET ANY RESISTANCE OR ANY PROBLEMS BEYOND THAT POINT.

>> YES, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT OPERATION HOURS.

>> YEAH. I MEAN, THERE HASN'T BEEN BECAUSE NO DEALS HAVE BEEN INKED. THIS IS THE HURDLE THAT WE HAVE TO GET PAST. BUT AGAIN, THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN THE RULES AND RESTRICTIONS OF GOVERNING LATE- NIGHT ACTION. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD BE OPEN IT. WE WOULD BE OPEN TO

[01:40:04]

DISCUSSION IF THERE WAS A LIMIT OF 9:00 OR 10:00 P.M. THAT'S MORE THAN REASONABLE TO ASK THAT. BUT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT GENERALLY IS LEFT TO EACH TENANT.

BUT CERTAINLY, NOFRD TO GET PAST THIS AND TO MAKE EVERYBODY FEEL GOOD, IF WE PUT RESTRICTIONS ON THE LIQUOR STORE AND SAY YOU HAVE TO CLOSE AT 10:00, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

AND IT IS WHAT IT IS. IF THEY DID, THEY ARE NOT THE RIGHT TENANTS FOR THAT AREA.

>> I WAS JUST CURIOUS. I THINK THIS CONCEPT OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE IS GREAT. THERE'S A NEED.

YOU SAID IT'S BASICALLY A SERVICE AREA OR SERVICE OF STUDIOS.

THOSE ARE BASICALLY MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, HALF DAY ON SATURDAY OR SOMETHING IN OPERATION. I SEE A LIQUOR STORE AND LOOKED IT UP. THEY ARE ALL OPEN SEVEN DAYS A WEEK FROM 9:00 TO 10:00, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, WEEKENDS THROUGH 10:00.

THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT CONCEPT OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OF SERVICE- TYPE FACILITY.

AND YOU'RE GOING TO DO GREAT THERE.

DEFINITELY CAN SEE YOGA STUDIOS, HAIR SALON, PET CARE, THERE'S A NEED FOR IT. I'M JUST UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE PACKAGE LIQUOR STORE. THAT'S JUST A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOME TYPE OF FOOD.

A COUPLE BOTTLES OF WINE AND I JUST REALLY HAVE SOME CONCERNS. THAT'S WHERE I STAND.

I THINK IT'S THE WRONG LOCATION.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCEPT OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE.

I THINK IT'S GREAT. I THINK IT'S A REAL NEED.

AND I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD WILL ENJOY HAVING THESE SERVICE-TYPE BUSINESS THIS IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> JUST A COUPLE QUICK ÚQUESTIO YOU TALKED TO THE CHURCHES. DID YOU TALK TO THE DAYCARE CENTER THERE IN THE SAME LOT?

>> I TRIED SEVERAL TIMES AT THE DAYCARE CENTER.

I'M NOT SURE HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ANYBODY. ORIGINALLY WHEN WE STARTED THIS LOOKING THROUGH THE LDC, I DON'T KNOW THAT DAYCARES FALL UNDER THE THOUSAND- FOOT RULE. THEY DO. I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT.

I DON'T THINK THEY ARE THE SAME CLASSIFICATION AS A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE SCHOOL.

SO I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING DIRECTLY TO THAT.

AS A GOOD NEIGHBOR, I INTRODUCED MYSELF AND TALKED TO EVERYBODY ABOUT THE MODIFICATION BEFORE IT HAPPENED. BUT THERE'S NO ACTIVITY AT THE DAYCARE RIGHT NOW. I LEFT A CARD THERE.

I'M NOT SURE. IT'S A CORPORATE BRAND.

I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE IN SOME SORT OF ORIENTATION OR LEASE UP OR WHERE THEY ARE, BUT I CAN'T GET AHOLD OF ANYBODY FROM THE DAYCARE. THERE'S NO CARS, THERE'S NO ACTIVITY, IT'S CLOSED UP.

I'M ON SITE QUITE A BIT. I HAVEN'T BEEN A ABLE TO GET IN CONTACT WITH ANYBODY THERE.

>> LET ME ASK STAFF REAL QUICK. I KNOW THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN SCHOOLS AND DAYCARE. CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE THAT FALLS IN?

>> YES, SIR. THROUGH THE CHAIR, IN THIS CIRCUMSANCE, A DAYCARE IS NOT A SCHOOL.

IT'S NOT HAVING TO MEET THAT THOUSAND- FOOT REQUIREMENT. IT WAS INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT JUST BECAUSES IT IS A RELATIVELY SIMILAR USE JUST FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION ABOUT GENERAL COMPATIBILITY.

>> THEN I WAS LOOKING AT YOUR MOCK-UP OF THE CENTER ITSELF.

ARE THE SIGNS GOING TO BE STRICTLY ON THE THE BUILDINGS, OR ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE A SIGN ON THE MAIN ROAD AS WELL?

>> ON U.S. 1? OR THE SHORES BOULEVARD?

>> ON SHORES.

>> YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SMALL MNUMENT SIGN. I THINK THEY ARE RESTRICTED TO 32 SQUARE FEET. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S GOING TO BE ROOM FOR TENANTS' SIGNS. IT'S GOING TO SAY BOULEVARD PLAZA. WE ARE GOING TO BE FILING A PERMIT FOR OFF- SITE SIGNAGE AT U.S.

1, WHICH IS ALLOWED IN THE PUD AS WELL.

I HAVE ALL THE DOCUMENTATION FOR THE SHORES FOR THAT.

>> THIS IS A QUESTION TO THE CHAIR, TO THE STAFF.

MAYBE TWO QUESTIONS. ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT A HARDSHIP IN THIS CASE? DID WE LOOK AT A HARDSHIP?

>> THIS STILL HAS THE HARDSHIP

[01:45:04]

REQUIREMENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE HARD LINE BETWEEN IT.

IN THESE CASES, YOU NEED TO USE THE ANALYSIS THAT'S IN SNIDER AND LOOK AT THE TOTAL PICTURE OF ALL THE EVENTS PROVIDED. BUT THERE SHOULD STILL BE COME SKON SEPTEMBER OF A HARDSHIP.

IT SHOULD RUN WITH THE PROPERTY.

BUT YOU DETERMINE WHAT IS A HARDSHIP ULTIMATELY.

>> AND MY SECOND QUESTION IS I HAVE HEARD SOME CONFUSING TESTIMONY. I THOUGHT 2020 WAS RUNNING THE STORE AND OWNING THE LICENSE.

NOW WHAT I'M HEARING IS SOMEBODY ELSE IS RUNNING THE STORE AND OWNING THE LICENSE.

SO WE'RE GRANTING THIS OPERATING CHARACTERISTIC TO 2020. HOW DOES THAT WORK IF NOW THEY COME ALONG AND ABC LIQUORS WANTS TO GO IN THERE? DO THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AGAIN?

>> IT'S GRANTED SPECIFICALLY TO 2020.

THAT'S WHAT'S REQUESTED. IF A NEW ENTITY COMES IN.

OFTEN TIMES WHAT MAY HAPPEN IS THAT 2020 AS AN ENTITY MAYBE PURCHASED BY ANOTHER ENTITY AND THEY OWN THEM AND THEY CAN CHANGE THE NAME THAT'S THE USAGE NAME. SO IT CAN BE ON ASSOCIATED OR SOLD INTO ANOTHER AND THAT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY TRIGGER HAVING TO COME BACK.

>> SO Y'ALL UNDERSTAND THAT?

>> I DO. AND I THINK THE IDEA WAS THAT BEING THAT THE LIQUOR STORE IS ALREADY NAMED IN THE PUD AS AN ACCEPTABLE USE BY EXCEPTION, MY THOUGHTS WERE THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY HOW IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME WHEN I FIRST WENT TO ZONING AT THE COUNTY BUILDING TO SIT DOWN AND ASK WHAT DO I DO, WHAT'S REQUIRED AT THIS POINT? AND THE WAY IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME WAS THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE GRANTING THE EXCEPTION TO THE PUD FOR MY PARCEL.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THE OTHER ACCEPTABLE USES THAT'S ALREADY IN THE PUD THAT EVERYBODY COMPLIES WITH, THIS WOULD BE KIND OF A GENERAL BLANKETED APPROVAL FOR THE DEVELOPMENT IN ITSELF. NOT TIED DIRECTLY TO ME, PER SE, OR ANY PARTICULAR BUILDING, BUT THE ENTIRE PROJECT. SO THAT'S HOW IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME THAT -- AND I THINK TO EVEN GO ON, I THINK THE IDEA BEHIND THAT WAS, LET'S SAY WE HAD A TENANT THAT CAME IN AND GOT THE APPROVAL.

THEY LEFT AND WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME? WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. I THINK IT WAS IN THE LIKE MIND OF ENTITLING THE DEVELOPMENT TO HAVE THIS USE THAT'S OTHERWISE APPROVED IN THE PUD, BUT THIS BEING THE EXCEPTION. TO GET THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.

THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHY I'M DOING IT AS A DEVELOPER. RATHER THAN SOMEBODY WHO SIGNED AND IS A TENANT. THAT'S THE CATCH 22 BECAUSE NO ONE CAN COMMIT OR DO ANYTHING KNOWING THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT EXCEPTION GRANTED YET.

I THINK THAT'S THE STICKY POINT.

>> I THINK THEY SAID IS YOU DON'T HAVE THE EXCEPTION ANY WAY.

I'M SORRY. YOU HAVE IT IF 20 IS THE LICENSE HOLDER AND OPERATES THE LIQUOR STORE, BUT 2020 IS NOT OPERATING THE LIQUOR STORE, YOU DON'T HAVE IT. LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

CAN YOU GET 1,000 FEET AWAY FROM THAT CHURCH ON YOUR PROPERTY?

>> I MAY HAVE SOME COMMENTS LATER, BUT RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE NEED TO GET TO PUBLIC COMMENTS.

IF Y'ALL WOULD HAVE A SEAT. LET'S GET TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

JUST COME ON UP.

STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. GO TO ONE OF THOSE THREE PODIUMS.

>> THE PROPOSAL TO ALLOW FOR PACKAGE SALES OF HARD LIQUOR AT THIS LOCATION IS IMCOMPATIBLE WITH THE RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL CHARACTER OF THIS SECTION OF THE SHORES. TRAFFIC ON THIS PORTION OF SHORES BOULEVARD IS VERY LIGHT.

WE HAVE ALREADY HEARD THAT THE PROPOSED LIQUOR STORE IS BIGGER THAN WHAT'S AT PUBLIX OR SHORES LIQUOR. THAT EQUALS MORE OUTSIDE TRIPS FROM THE SHORES INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BRINGING MORE NUISANCE TO THE COMMUNITY. THIS SITE IS LOCATED ABOUT A THREE- MINUTE WALK FROM A HEAVILY WOODED PUBLIC PARK. NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THAT, BUT IF THERE'S ISSUES WITH PUBLIC INTOXICATION, THAT'S WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO OCCUR. PLEASE ALSO CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON THE NEARBY DAYCARE BUSINESS. FOR MANY PARENTS, DAYCARE IS THE

[01:50:01]

FIRST TIME THEY ARE GOING TO LEAVE THE CHILDREN IN THE CARE OF AN ADULT THEY ARE NOT RELATED.

PLACING THE LIQUOR STORE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY COULD BE FATAL TO THIS BUSINESS WHICH ONLY OPENED EARLIER THIS YEAR. BACK TO THE LOCATION, IF YOU SEARCH GOOGLE MAPS FOR LIQUOR STORES IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, YOU'LL SEE ALL OF THEM ARE LOCATED ALONG MAJOR ROADWAYS LIKE U.S. 1, STATE ROAD 16, COUNTY ROAD 210 OR THEY ARE LOCATED WITHIN A MAJOR SHOPPING PLAZA THAT HAS A LARGE GROCERY OR BIG BOX RETAIL ANCHOR.

NONE OF THEM ARE LOCATED IN SMALL COMMERCIAL NODES AT THE VERY BACK OF A NEIGHBORHOOD SO FAR OFF A MAJOR ROADWAY.

THERE'S A REASON FAMILIES CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THE SHORES NEAR CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, PARKS AND NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES.

THEY PROVIDE NON-INTRUSIVE BENEFITS AND CONVENIENCES TO OUR COMMUNITY. THIS SPECIFIC PROPOSAL WILL HAD NOT.

PLEASE PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND DENY THIS REQUEST FOR A MINOR MODIFICATION. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT?

>> NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

>> CHRIS BRITT, CHRISTINA DRIVE, ST. AUGUSTINE.

>> THAT WAS A GREAT PRESENTATION YOU JUST MADE.

BUT THE SHORES IS SHAPED LIKE A HORSESHOE. AT THE BOTTOM ENTRANCE IS WINN DIXIE LIQUORS. AT THE TOP ENTRANCE IS PUBLIX LIQUORS. TURN RIGHT AND YOU'RE AT SHORES LIQUORS. VERY EASY TO ANY ALCOHOL YOU WANT IS ALL VERY CLOSE I BY.

THERE'S NO NEED FOR IT.

WE MOVED TO THE SHORES 17 YEARS AGO FOR THE PURPOSE OF A FAMILY ATMOSPHERE. AND THAT'S SORT OF GOING AWAY. THEY ARE PUTTING A BIG SHOPPING CENTER. I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT WAS EXCITED ABOUT THAT SHOPPIN CENTER. EVERYBODY WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO THE SHORES? THIS IS NOT WHAT IT IS.

IT'S ZONED THAT WAY, SO THEY ARE GOING TO PUT SOMETHING THERE.

THEY HAVE A RETIREMENT CENTER, THE DAYCARE, THREE CHURCHES IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL, A BIG LIQUOR STORE. SO I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO IS HOPING FOR A LARGER LIQUOR STORE WHEN THEY GO TO BUY BEER. THERE'S TWO DOLLAR GENERALS RIGHT THERE. THEY HAVE BEER AS WELL. SO IT'S VERY OUT OF PLACE.

IT IS NOT REALLY NEEDED. AND IT'S GOING TO CHANGE OUR COMMUNITY.

>> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT?

>> COME BACK FOR REBUTTAL?

>> I UNDERSTAND EVERYONE'S CONCERN ABOUT THAT.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT AS FAR AS WHAT IT'S GOING TO CREATE, I DON'T HAVE THE SENSE OF DANGER WHEN I GO TO THERE.

I NEVER GET THE SENSE THAT MY CHILDREN ARE UNSAFE, I'M GOING TO GET MUGGED OR ATTACKED. THAT'S JUST MY OBSERVATION.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT JUST TAKING -- GOING OUT TO U.S.

1 IS NOT THE WILD WEST OUTSIDE OF TRAFFIC AND BRAKE LIGHTS. SO THAT WOULD BE MY REBUTTAL.

THIS ISN'T GOING TO BRING ANYTHING TO THE SHORES OTHER THAN MORE CONVENIENCE.

CAPITALISM WILL DICTATE HOW IT WILL DO. THE FREE MARKET WILL DICTATE HOW WELL A 3,000- FOOT LIQUOR STORE WILL DO.

THAT'S THE BEST WAY.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY KIND OF TEST THAT THEORY OUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S NEEDED OR NOT NEEDED. THAT'S JUST FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS KIND OF OUR MO IN THIS COUNTRY HOW WE OPERATE. WE LET PEOPLE VOTE WITH THEIR FEET. IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT OR WANT IT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PATRON THE PLACE. BUT I CAN SAY I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY PACKAGE STORES OR LIQUOR STORES THAT HAVE CLOSED DOWN ANYWHERE DUE TO LOW SALE VOLUMES.

BUT AGAIN, I CAN'T REITERATE HOW MUCH TIME AND EFFORT IS GOING INTO THIS TO TRY TO CREATE SOMETHING FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE SHORES. I'M NOT ANTICIPATING DRAWING OUT A LOT OF TRAFFIC OUTSIDE OF THE SHORES.

I THINK THE LIQUOR STORES OUTSIDE OF THE SHORES WILL DO THAT THEMSELVES.

AGAIN, TO REITERATE JULIE'S POINT, THE SHORES IS GROWING.

IT'S EXPECTED TO GROW BY 30% IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS. THERE'S 400 HOMES BEING BUILT IN. THE ROAD IS BEING EXPANDED. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.

THIS IS IN THE PATH OF PROGRESS.

THIS IS NOT LIKE IT'S A LITTLE SMALL PLACE THAT'S TUCKED AWAY ON THE SIDE STREET.

I'D LIKE TO SAY THIS IS NOT A LIQUOR STORE, BUT AS FAR AS SALES, RESTAURANTS, DRINKING, I

[01:55:04]

THINK SOME OF OUR BEST RESTAURANTS IN THE TOWN ARE LOCATED IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS. I CAN NAME FIVE OF THEM NOW THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH STREETS TO GET TO WHETHER IT'S THE HOUSE. THERE'S A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS MODELSMODELS DON'T CREATE -- COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SAID 40 YEARS AGO.

THEY WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE DRUNKEN FIGHTS AND PROBLEMS ALL THE TIME. I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM IN OUR COMMUNITY. I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES ST.

JOHNS COUNTY UNIQUE IS WE SELF- GOVERN PRETTY WELL. I THINK, LIKE I SAID, I THINK WE VOTE WITH OUR FEET.

IF IT DOESN'T WORK, IT DOESN'T WORK. BUT I CAN TELL YOU THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY ILL EFFECTS INTO THE SHORES FROM THIS. IF IT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO MAYBE CHANGE THE HOURS, I THINK MOST OF THEM WAS 9:00.

I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE REQUEST. AND SOMEBODY THAT'S WILLING TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY AND INVEST INTO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION AND LIVE WITH IT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT

IT. >> A COUPLE THINGS. ONE THING I WANT TO HARP ON THIS. THIS IS NOT CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES, WHICH YOU ALREADY HAVE AT THE SHORES CLUB, THE AT THE GOLF CLUB, WHICH IS JUST WEST OF WHERE THE DEVELOPMENT IS LOCATED.

CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES IS ILLEGAL IN THIS LOCATION THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO THAT WOULD BE A POLICEABLE ELEMENT. IT'S ILLEGAL NOT ONLY FOR SOMEBODY TO DO IT, BUT FOR THE OWNER OF THE PREMISES TO ALLOW IT.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY DO NEED TO PUT INTO THE CORRECT CONTEXT HERE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY COMING IN AND BUYING A BOTTLE OF SOMETHING AND GOING ON THE ROAD AND HURTING SOMEBODY, THAT'S ALL ILLEGAL. THAT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A LIQUOR STORE. IF THAT WERE THE CASE, THESE PEOPLE COULD BE GETTING IT AT ANY NUMBER OF PLACES AND DRIVING AROUND WITH IT IN THEIR CAR.

WE SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE SHORES CLUB OR ANY OTHER PLACE THAT'S DOING CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES BECAUSE THAT DOES POSE A GREATER LIABILITY THAN A PACKAGE STORE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TO PUT IT IN A PACKAGE, PUT IT IN THEIR CAR AND TAKE IT HOME. THE OTHER THING IS THIS IS HAS BEEN VERY WELL RECEIVED I BY THE RESIDENTS OF THE SHORES. I'M THE PERSON ON THE SIGN UP FRONT. I GET ALL THE PHONE CALLS.

I HAVE LITERALLY GOTTEN HUNDREDS OF PHONE CALLS ABOUT THIS PROJECT SINCE MY SIGN WENT UP SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS AGO. OVERWHELMINGLY, THE INTEREST THAT WE HAVE IN ALL OF THE RETAIL OFFICE SPACE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING IS FROM PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND I THINK WITH EXCEPTION OF ONE OF OUR LOIS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN FOR LEASES IS PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE BIKE SHOP THAT'S COMING IN IS A WELL-KNOWN BIKE GROUP. THEY ARE A COMMUNITY-ORR YEBTED GROUP.

THEY ARE SUPER EXCITED ABOUT BEING THERE.

THE YOGA, THE GIRL THAT RUNS THE YOGA STORE LIVES RIGHT DOWN THE STREET. THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING.

WHAT THEY ARE OVERWHELMINGLY TELLING US IS WE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE SHOERS. THE REASON THAT YOU SEE THESE RETAIL DEVELOPMENTS ON MAJOR ROADWAYS IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THINGS LIKE THIS IN NEIGHBORHOODS TYPICALLY. THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE DEVELOPED. BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. IF YOU LIVE NURSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SHORES, YOU KNOW IT TAKES AWHILE TO GET OUT OF THERE. THEN YOU HAVE TO HIT THE TRAFFIC.

WHATEVER WE CAN PROVIDE HERE IN A BIKABLE, WALKABLE ENVIRONMENT, I MEAN, I HAVE GOTTEN SO MANY PHONE CALLS FROM PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE SHORES THAT ARE EXCITED THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BIKE AND WALK TO RETAILERS OF CHOICE.

AND WE HAVE SPOKEN OF WHAT KINDS OF THINGS WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE.

IT'S NOT SCIENTIFIC. IT'S THE PHONE CALLS THAT WE ARE TAKING ON THE PROJECT.

I REGRET SO MUCH THAT PEOPLE HAVE CONCERNS A ABOUT IT, BUT AGAIN, THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT RIGHT HERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE ILLEGAL.

AND WE DO HAVE VERY GOOD POLICE AND SHERIFFS DEPUTY DEPARTMENTS IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

I FEEL CONFIDENT THIS IS A VERY VISIBLE AREA. I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO POLICE WHATEVER WE NEED TO WHETHER INTERNALLY OR FROM A COMMUNITY STANDPOINT TO MAKE THIS A REALLY NICE LEGITIMATE -- IT'S LIKE A GROCERY STORE THAT SELLS BEER AND WINE AND LIQUOR.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT RESIDENTS HAVE TOLD US THAT THEY NEED, THAT THEY WANT.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION.

[02:00:04]

>> FIRST OFF, IF I MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE RESTRICTION OF NO DRIVE- THRU AND LIMITED HOURS OF OPERATION 9:00 TO 9:00?

>> NO PROBLEM.

>> OUT OF CURE YOSTY TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT MISSING SOMETHING. THIS SITE PLAN ON THE SCREEN DOESN'T SEEM TO MATCH WHAT WE WERE SEEING ON THE ELEVATION OF THE SHOPPING CENTER. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT ELEVATION?

>> I'M GOING TO GO TO THE RENDERING.

SO HERE IS -- WHERE IS THE POINTER ON THIS THING? SO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT ON THE SITE PLAN, LET ME SEE IF I CAN BOUNCE BACK AND FORTH. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, YOU HAVE BUILDING 1, BUILDING 2 IS THE TWO-STORY BUILDING.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. THE BUILDING THREE WITH THE RED DOT, WHICH SHOWS THIS WAS EARLY RENDERINGS. THIS IS RENDERINGS THAT I CREATED ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO. THAT BUILDING THREE IS THE PROPOSED SITE OF THE LIQUOR STORE IS BUILDING THREE. WHAT YOU DON'T SEE IN THE BACK WITH THE TREES IS PHASE TWO, WHICH IS BUILDING FOUR, FIVE AND SIX. BUT DURING ENTITLEMENTS, WE CHANGED THAT TO ALLOW ME TO DEVELOPMENT AND DO ALL THE SITE WORK ALL AT ONCE JUST IN ANTICIPATION OF A FULL- SERVICE RESTAURANT WITH THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE NEEDED. THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS BUILDING ONE, TWO AND THREE ON THE RENDERING.

>> BUILDING THREE IS THE ONE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF OF THE SCREEN?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. >> DOES THE LIQUOR STORE TAKE UP THE WHOLE THING?

>> ON THE RIGHT, YES, SIR. THAT WOULD BE ONE BUILDING.

THAT'S A 3,000-SQUARE FOOT BUILDING.

>> THANK YOU. >> I THINK THIS IS REALLY A GREAT IDEA.

I LOVE ALL THE LITTLE YOGA STUDIO AND THE BIKE REPAIRS AND THE NAILS.

I JUST DON'T SEE THAT A LIQUOR STORE IS COMPATIBLE.

THERE'S ZERO CHANCE I'M GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS NO MATTER WHAT CONDITIONS ARE PLACED UPON THIS. MAKE A RESTAURANT.

THAT SOUNDS GREAT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RESTAURANT. THERE'S MORE NEED, MORE MONEY TO BE MADE WITH THAT.

DO THAT. I JUST THINK THIS IS JUST DOESN'T SIT RIGHT WITH ME. I'M SORRY, BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE MY OPINION.

>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD OR QUESTIONS?

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS APPLYING FOR LICENSING. IF WE DON'T HAVE THE NAME THAT'S HERE MIRRORING THE NAME THAT'S ACTUALLY MAKING THE APPLICATION. YOU MAYBE ABLE TO SELL IT, BUT YOU MAY ALSO CREATE SOME PROBLEMS CONVERTING THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL. DO WE HAVE THE CORRECT NAME IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION WITH THE CORRECT NAME FOR THE BUSINESS? MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT ON THE RECORD.

>> FOR MY BUSINESS?

>> FOR THE BUSINESS THAT'S ACTUALLY MAKING THE APPLICATION TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

>> THAT WOULD BE ME. 2020 COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS A, LLC.

>> I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE MINOR MODIFICATION 2025- 15 BASED ON 5 FINDINGS OF FACT AND FINDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

I'M CHANGING CONDITION 1 TO SO APPROVAL WOULD BE GRANTED TO 2020 COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS A, LLC, AND THEN I'M ADDING A CONDITION THAT THE DRIVE-THRU IS NOT ALLOWED AND THE HOURS OF OPERATION BE LIMITED FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 9:00

P.M. >> WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND?

>> I'LL SECOND FOR DISCUSSION.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?

>> YES. I'M A NON- DRINKER, BUT I USED TO BE QUITE A HEAVY DRINKER.

THE FULL- SERVICE RESTAURANT IS A

[02:05:03]

LOT MORE DANGEROUS WITH LIQUOR THAN THIS LIQUOR STORE IS.

THIS IS A STORE FOR PEOPLE TO GO PICK UP GOODS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT LIQUOR HAS GOT ITS OWN SET OF LICENSING, BUT I'M QUITE AN EXPERIENCED DRINKER FROM A LONG TIME AGO. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THE RESTAURANT IS A LOT MORE DANGEROUS THAN THIS LIQUOR STORE IS. WE'D RATHER HAVE TWO LIQUOR STORES THON A FULL-SERVICE RESTAURANT.

THAT'S WHY I MADE THE MOTION THAT I MADE.

>> WITHOUT ANY FURTHER COMMENT, LET'S TAKE THE VOTE.

THAT MOTION IS DEFEATED 5-1.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

>> FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE FOR THE NEXT FEW ITEMS, I APOLOGIZE FOR DOING THIS, BUT I THINK WE NEED A BREAK. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A TEN- MINUTE

[7. NZVAR 2025-16 UF Health St. Johns Signage. Request for a Non-Zoning Variance to Sections 7.02.04.C and 7.02.04.D of the Land Development Code to allow for 803.2 square feet of total Advertising Display Area (ADA) for the UF Health St. Johns wall signage in lieu of the maximum 200 square feet of signage per business, and to allow three (3) signs to exceed the maximum of 150 square feet per sign, located at 400 Health Park Boulevard.]

>>> CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER. WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO ITEM NUMBER 7. HEALTH SIGNAGE.

THE PRESENTER, I'LL ASK FOR EX PARTE.

>> JUST A SITE VISIT.

>> I DID SEVERAL SITE VISITS. ONE DURING THE DAY AND ONE AT NIGHT.

>> DEFINITELY KNOW WHERE IT

ENDS. >> MR. OLSON?

>> I HAVE BEEN THERE MANY TIMES.

>> AS HAVE I. THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT.

YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.

>> I AM REPRESENTING UF HEALTH FOR THIS VARIANCE FOR SIGNAGE. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS.

WE ARE REQUESTING INCREASED SIGNAGE AT WHAT USED TO BE FLAG FLAGLER.

WE SEEKING APPROVAL FOR ALLOWANCE 803.2 SQUARE FOOT FEET. OUR REQUEST IS NOT BRANDING OR ETC. THETICES, IT'S ABOUT ENSURING THE SAFETY AND PEACE OF MIND FOR EVERY PATIENT, VISITOR, AND FAMILY MEMBER WHO NEEDS TO FIND OUR HOSPITAL QUICKLY AND WITHOUT CONFUSION.

SO I DO HAVE THIS SLIDE. SO THIS IS THE AERIAL VIEW OF WHERE THE SIGNAGE IS GOING TO BE, THE BIG STAR RIGHT HERE. AS YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE UF HEALTH. THERE INITIALLY WAS SIGNAGE, APPLICATION FOR SIGNAGE APPLIED EARLIER.

THEY WERE REJECTED BECAUSE OF THE KPOOEDING ALLOWABLE. ONE OF THE SIGNS HAS ALREADY BEEN PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED THROUGH A VARIANCE, WHICH IS SIGN ONE, WEST ELEVATION. CURRENTLY AT 240.

WE ARE PROPOSING 438. AND SIGN THREE NORTH ELEVATION EXISTING IS 120. WE'RE PROPOSED 182. 6, WHICH IS EAST ELEVATION, EXISTING IS 120 AS WELL. AND WE'RE PROPOSING 182. 6 SQUARE FEET. THE TOTAL PROPOSED IS 803.2.

I'LL EXPLAIN WHY. SO RIGHT NOW, THE EXISTING SIGN ON WEST ELEVATION IS 240 FOR VARIANCE APPROVAL. WE ARE REQUESTING A HIGHER ONE, WHICH IS 438. IT WILL BETTER DESCRIBE NEW BRANDING. IT WILL BETTER DESCRIBE WHAT THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE BUILDING IS, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY A HOSPITAL EMERGENCY.

CURRENTLY FOR SIGNS THREE AND FIVE, WHICH IS ON NORTH AND EAST

[02:10:02]

ELEVATIONS, CURRENTLY THERE'S THE FLAGLER LOGO.

THIS IS A VERY POPULAR AREA. WE HAVE VISITORS AND FAMILY VISITING. ANYBODY THAT'S NOT HERE OR QUICKLY IDENTIFYING THE HOSPITAL, YOU CAN'T TELL THAT'S A HOSPITAL.

IT'S A NEW BRANDING. IT'S CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE MEDICAL FACILITY, CRITICAL IN OUR COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN URGENT NEEDS.

WHY ARE WE ASKING THIS? HOSPITALS ARE NOT LIKE OTHER BUSINESSES, AS YOU KNOW. FOR MANY, ESPECIALLY THOSE VISITING FROM OUT OF TOWN OR EMERGENCY SITUATIONS, HOPEFULLY NOT DRUNK DRIVING OR DRINKING TOO MUCH ALCOHOL, BUT FINDING THE ALCOHOL IS A MATTER OF QUICK AND SAFETY.

THE CURRENT SIGNAGE DOES NOT PROVIDETHE CLEAR, UNMISTAKABLE IDENTIFICATION THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL SOMETIMES WITHIN MINUTES FOR A FACILITY OF THIS IMPORTANCE.

IMAGINE THE DISTRESS OF A FAMILY MEMBER NEW TO THE FAIR SEARCHING FOR THE HOSPITAL IN A MOMENT OF NEED ONLY TO MISS THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE SIGNAGE WAS NOT ADEQUATE OR UNCLEAR. THE CONSEQUENCES OF CONFUSION ARE REAL WITH POTENTIAL IMPACTS ON HEALTH OUTCOMES AND COMMUNITY TRUST. SO OUR COMMITMENT IS WE FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT OUR REQUEST EXCEEDS THE ALLOWABLE ALLOWANCE. HOWEVER, WE BELIEVE THAT THE TRUE UNIQUE ROLE OF A HOSPITAL, ESPECIALLY ONE SERVING AS REEJ MALL MEDICAL ANCHOR, JUSTIFIES THIS EXCEPTION. OUR GOAL IS NOT EXCESSIVE PROMOTION, BUT TO ENSURE THAT EVERY RESIDENT OR VISITOR CAN IDENTIFY AND ACCESS OUR FACILITY WITHOUT DELAY OR DOUBT. WE RESPECTFULLY URGE THE BOARD TO CONSIDER NOT JUST THE NUMBERS, BUT THE HUMAN IMPACT BEHIND THEM. APPROVING THIS VARIANCE WILL DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE SAFETY, COMFORT AND WELL BEING OF EVERYONE WHO RELIES ON UF HEALTH.

>> THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD?

>> A QUICK QUESTION. I UNDERSTAND YOUR PRESENTATION AND THE NEED FOR PEOPLE TO EASILY IDENTIFY HOSPITAL. IT'S A LARGE MEDICAL CAMPUS.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BUILDINGS. SO MY QUESTION IS NOT ON THE SIZE OF THE SIGN, BUT SHOULDN'T HOSPITAL BE LARGER THAN -- UF HEALTH DOESN'T REALLY SAY HOSPITAL. EN ISN'T HOSPITAL THE -- BASED ON YOUR PRESENTATION, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEARER?

>> THAT'S TRUE.

IT IS. BUT U OF HEALTH IS RECOGNIZABLE.

THAT'S A HOSPITAL. YOU KNOW THAT'S A HOSPITAL.

>> TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT NEED TO ACCESS A HOSPITAL THAT ARE VISITORS FROM ELSEWHERE AND THEY ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOGO.

IT'S JUST A THOUGHT.

>> IT'S A LARGE CORPORATE.

>> TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAS THIS BUILDING EVER BEEN USED AS ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN A HOSPITAL?

>> NO. >> SO IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THEE

HOSPITAL IN THE AREA? >> AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND.

IT'S THE EMERGENCY HOSPITAL. >> ALL RIGHT.

>> THE SIGNAGE PROBABLY MAYBE CAME ALONG WITH THE BUILDING.

SO IT'S HAD THE SIGNS THE SIZE THAT THEY ARE FOR NOW.

SO I APPRECIATED MR. OLSON'S COMMENTS ABOUT HOSPITAL.

WHAT ELSE DOES U OF HEALTH DO? AS A BRAND?

>> I UNDERSTAND THEY DO HAVE MEDICAL FACILITIES, SO THEY HAVE DOCTORS. OTHER BULDINGS ARE THERE. I DO HAVE THE UF REP HERE WITH ME. HE MAY ALSO HELP ON OTHER PORTFOLIOS THAT THE HOSPITAL OFFERS.

[02:15:17]

>> PRIMARY CARE SERVICES, WE MULTITUDE OF OFFERINGS OPT THE MAIN CAMPUS. THIS IS THE PRIMARY HOSPITAL BUILDING. THINK THE SIGNAGE FROM THE BRANDING STANDPOINT, MEMORIAL HEALTH, ALL STANDARD HEALTH CARE BRANDING PACKAGES WERE TYPICALLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE NAME OF THE BUSINESS AND HOW THAT IN THE DISTABS FROM THE MAIN ROADWAY, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE GETTING EVERYBODY TO SEE VISIBILITY. THE NORTH AND EAST ELEVATIONS SO THAT WOULD BE THE OTHER REASON FOR THE REQUEST IN INCREASED SIGNAGE.

YEARS AGO WE HAD DONE THE EAST ELEVATION.

>> TO MR. OLSON'S POINT, UF HEALTH DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN HOSPITAL.

EMERGENCY. THIS IS WHERE NEED TO GO.

I THINK WE'RE KIND OF GETTING IN A PLACE WHERE LARGE BUILDINGS AND BRANDING ARE BECOMING BILLBOARDS.

WHAT'S BEEN WORKING FOR DECADES.

SO THOSE WERE MY QUESTIONS.

DOES THIS NECESSARILY TELL PEOPLE THIS IS WHERE YOU GO WHEN YOU NEED TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL? ESPECIALLY WITH GPS.

THAT'S MY CONCERN.

I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF BIG SIGNS, BUT THANK YOU.

>> I HAVE TO AGREE ON THE INCREASE IN SIGNAGE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUR TIMES WHAT IS ALLOWABLE FROM 200 THAT'S ALLOWED UP TO 800. CAN WE REDUCE THAT SIZE AND MAYBE JUST DOUBLE UP ON THE SIZE.

BECAUSE IT'S ALL LIT. IT'S HIGH ENOUGH. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO SEE THE TWO TOWERS THERE IS GOING TO BE THE ONES COMING ACROSS THE BRIDGE. IT'S GOING TO BE VISIBLE ANY WAY. THE ONLY PROBLEM YOU MAY HAVE MAYBE COMING IN OFF OF ROUTE 1 FROM THE NORTH SIDE BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TREES AND OTHER BUILD THAGS ARE THERE. IT IS HIGH ENOUGH.

>> I DO HAVE A COUPLE COMMENTS THAT I'M GOING TO ASK OR STATE LATER.

>> 380 CROSSING, ST. AUGUSTINE. I'M WITH CREATIVE SIGNS. I'M THE SIGN MANUFACTUREER WORKING WITH UF HEALTH. ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTEDWANTED POINT OUT IS REALLY THE INCREASE OF SQUARE FOOTAGE IS AS A RESULT OF THE BRANDING.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW, WHY IT REPRESENTS SUCH A LOW NUMBR OF SQUARE FOOTAGE IN THE INCREASE TO THE UF HEALTH, THE PROBLEM AND WHY THERE'S A LOT OF DEAD SPACE REPRESENTED WITH THE ARCH THAT'S ABOVE TO THE RIGHT AND TO THE LEFT.

WHY IT IS SUCH A LARGER INCREASE IN SQUARE FOOTAGE.

THE OTHER THING IS THAT WHEN YOU'RE IN A TRAUMATIC SITUATION, YES, YOU HAVE GOOGLE, BUT YOU'RE DEALING WITH SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE HAVING A HEART ATTACK, AN INJURY, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. TO WHERE THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR PHONES THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION COMING ACROSS THE BRIDGE, I JUST MOVED HERE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. COMING ACROSS THAT BRIDGE, DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT WAS A HOSPITAL. SO I UNDERSTAND THE NEED, HAVING THE HOSPITAL OR EMERGENCY.

THE KEY WITH BRANDING IS GETTING EVERYBODY IDENTIFIES UF

[02:20:04]

HEALTH AS A MEDICAL FACILITY.

THE KEY WITH THE BRANDING, ESPECIALLY ON THE OTHER ELEVATION, IS ALSO GETTING THE PEOPLE TO IDENTIFY THAT THEY NEED TO TURN LEFT BEFORE THEY GET TO ROUTE 1 AND HAVE TO MAKEMAKE ROUTE ALL THE WAY AROUND EXTENDING THEIR TIME IN AN URGENT NEED. ONCE THEY MAKE THAT LEFT, THERE ARE GROUND SIGNAGE, WHICH ARE PERMITTED, THAT DRAWS THEM WHETHER IT'S TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, IMAGING, OR WHATEVER DIRECTION THAT THEY NEED TO GO.

THE KEY IS THAT QUICK DECISION AS YOU'RE COMING ACROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN YOU'RE IN THAT URGENT SITUATION. SAME ON THE FRONT ELEVATION OFF OF ROUTE 1 AS IT'S A BUSY INTERSECTION.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO IDENTIFY LET'S MAKE THAT TURN AND THEN THERE'S SIGNS THERE THAT DIRECT YOU IN THE DIRECTIONS THAT YOU NEED TO GO.

>> DOES THAT CONCLUDE YOUR PRESENTATION?

>> I BELIEVE SO, YES.

>> IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS AT THE MOMENT?

>> I'M SPEAKING TO THE POINT OF THAT TURN AT WET STONE PLACE, I THINK, IS THE NAME OF THE ROAD.

YOU COME OVER THE BRIDGE, AND THEN YOU'RE SAYING THAT QUICK TURN RATHER THAN HAVING TO GO ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT HAS LOTS OF SIGNS.

ARE YOU ENTITLED TO ANY KIND OF SIGNAGE OR EMERGENCY DIRECTION RIGHT THERE AT WET STONE PLACE?

>> SERGEANT TUTEN.

>> THANK YOU. I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT.

BECAUSE THAT MIGHT BE MORE ADVANTAGEOUS THAN HAVING TO DRIVE AND LOOK AND SEEING THAT'S THE HOSPITAL.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. UNFORTUNATE ILY, WE ARE NOT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT UF HEALTH PROPERTY. SO THEREFORE, WE COULD NOT FEASIBLY GET A PERMIT FOR A SIGN ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY. IT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE ONE AT THAT INTERSECTION.

>> ANYONE HERE FROM THE PUBLIC? SEEING NONE, WE'RE BACK IN THE AGENCY FOR VOTE.

>> IF YOU COULD, MAKE SURE THEY GET A COPY.

>> DO WE HAVE A MOTION?

>> I WONDERED TO THAT POINT, I DO UNDERSTAND THE BRANDING, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THE SIZE.

WOULD THERE BE A POSSIBILITY TO HAVE THE INCREASE THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING ON THE TALL AREAS AND HAVE ONLY 400 SQUARE FEET TO DISPERSE THOSE TWO SIGNS ON THE VERY TALL AREAS, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SAY YOUR MAIN CONCERN IS, AND REDUCING THE SIZE. SO YOU'LL HAVE YOUR BRANDING, BUT NOT HAVE IT BE SO MUCH GREATER?

>> THE BRANDING IS SET FROM THE UF HEALTH IN GENERAL.

AGAIN, I THINK OUR POINT WOULD BE 1,500 FEET AND 1,800 FEET FROM THE MAIN ROADWAY. WE FAR EXCEED ANY NORMAL SIGN PRESENTATION THAT WOULD BE ON

A NORMAL ROADWAY. >> THAT WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE ROAD, BUT SOME OF THESE

SIGNS ARE NOT VISIBLE. >> IT'S A VERY LONG WAY FROM THE ROADWAY TO THE FACILITY ITSELF.

>> IF I I COULD ADD THAT THE CURRENT SQUARE FOOTAGE IS ONLY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DRAW A BOX AROUND THE HIGHEST MOST POINT OF THE LOGO TO THE BOTTOM RIGHT AND LEFT. IF YOU TAKE THE BLANK AREA THAT IS BEING CALCULATED BECAUSE OF THAT BOXED EQUATION, IF YOU ALLOWED US TO DRAW A SQUARE AROUND THE LOGO, AROUND THE UF HEALTH, THAT WOULD EQUATE TO WE ARE LIKE FOR LIKE FOR WHAT IS EXISTING NOW.

WE WOULD STILL EXCEED THE ALLOWABLE 200 SQUARE FEET, BUT WE WOULD STILL MEET WHAT WAS PERMITTED IN A PREVIOUS VARIANCE TO WHAT'S CURRENTLY INSTALLED.

>> CAN YOU BRING UP THE PHOTOGRAPH OF YOUR MODEL OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE ON THE TOWER?

[02:25:29]

>> THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AS IT STANDS NOW, THAT'S IMMENSELY LARGER.

THAT'S NOT THE FOOTPRINT, AS I CAN SEE.

I DON'T KNOW. I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE TO DENY THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S TOO MUCH.

UNLESS YOU WANT TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT SO OF COMPROMISE.

WHICH IS FINE. IF YOU CAN'T THAT'S FINE.

>> ONLY ONE OF THE THREE SIGNS ON THIS BUILDING THAT IS A HOSPITAL SAYS HOSPITAL.

THE EAST AND THE NORTH FACING SIGNS DON'T SAY HOSPITAL. IT JUST SEEMS TO NEGATE THE ARGUMENT AS TO WHY THIS LARGER SIGN IS NEEDED TO DIRECT PEOPLE TO THE HOSPITAL.

IT'S A SIGN OF IDENTIFICATION FOR ALL THE GREAT REASONS YOU OUTLINED IN YOUR EARLIER PRESENTATION. THE LARGE SEVERAL MEDICAL BUILDINGS OF WHERE THE HOSPITAL IS.

>> NOT ONLY IS IT BRANDING, BUT IT'S ALSO BECAUSE IT'S SO FAR IN LIKE WE SAID EARLIER.

IT'S 1390 AVERAGE ON GOOGLE EARTH.

FROM HERE TO UNIVERSITY BOULEVARD.

THEN GOING WEST 5092 AVERAGE TO THAT LOCATION OF THAT BUILDING.

THAT'S ANOTHER THING IS VISIBILITY.

>> SO YOU'RE PRETTY MUCH SET WITH WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR BYE-BYE THERE'S NOT ROOM TO SHIFT THIS AROUND AT ALL? I UNDERSTAND THE DISTANCE, BUT TO MR. OLSON'S POINT, IDENTIFICATION OF THE HOSPITAL IS THE MAYBE THING FOR SAFETY.

BUT IT'S NOT IDENTIFYING IT'S A HOSPITAL. UF HEALTH IS A UNIVERSITY. IF I WERE JUST TRAVELING FROM OUT OF TOWN, I WOULD THINK IT'S A MEDICAL SCHOOL.

I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY KNOW IT'S A HOSPITAL.

AS FAR AS THE SIGN, I DO UNDERSTAND THE MEASUREMENTS.

I ALSO DISAGREE WITH THAT THEY ARE THE SAME.

WOULGD THERE BE A POSSIBILITY .

>> IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND THAT MAYBE IF IT'S NOT 800 THAT WE COULD GO HALFWAY?

>> WE HAVE ASKED OTHER APPLICANTS FOR LARGE SIGNS, LARGER THAN THE CODE ALLOWS TO PRESENT SOME OPTIONS TO US.

TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. SO SOME OPTIONS WOULD BE NICE. IT ALSO BOTHERS ME THAT THE WORD HOSPITAL IS NOT THERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE DISTANCES ARE GREAT.

I UNDERSTAND THE BRANDING ASPECT OF IT.

[02:30:03]

I SEE AN AD FOR ST. JUDE'S HOSPITAL IN MEMPHIS.

AND THAT SIGN IS HUGE ON THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S THERE.

MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT THERE ARE HOSPITALS THERE.

BUT WE ARE A TOURIST TOWN. I WAS INLITTED TO SUPPORT IT, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF ASKING FOR A CONTINUANCE AND COMING BACK WITH SOME OPTIONS ON THIS.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE BOARD.

>> I WOULD HAVE TO CONSULT WITH UF, BUT I WOULD CONSIDER THAT THAN A DENIAL. WE APPRECIATE FLEXIBILITY. I'M CERTAINLY SURE BETWEEN UF HEALTH WE CAN COME TOGETHER AS A GROUP WITH SOME OPTIONS FOR YOU.

>> OKAY.

>> JUST A REAL QUICK QUESTION. ON THE ROADWAY ITSELF, ARE THERE SIGNS THERE WITH THE HOSPITAL? I GET THE ROAD COMING FROM THE ISLAND. THERE'S NOTHING THERE THAT IDENTIFIES THE HOSPITAL UNTIL YOU TURN IN THERE.

YOU DO SEE SOME UF HEALTH OFFICES RIGHT THERE THAT HAVE SOME SIGNAGE, BUT NOT RELATED TO THE HOSPITAL.

>> A LOT OF AREAS OFF THE MAIN ROAD 312, ROUTE 1, BEFORE YOU GET TO IT, THERE'S USUALLY A BLUE METAL SIGN WITH ARROW POINTING TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU TRY TO GET IMPLEMENTED THROUGH THE COUNTY.

>> SO RATHER THAN OFFERING A MOTION AND THE POSSIBILITY, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME BACK AND JUST OFFER US A COUPLE OF OPTIONS AND MAYBE INCLUDE THE WORD HOSPITAL?

>> YES, WE WILL. WE WILL DO THAT.

>> SO WE HAVE A MOTION FOR A CONTINUANCE. IS THERE A SECOND?

>> MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE.

>> IS THERE A SECOND? >> LET ME ASK MR. SMITH.

HE WAS ABOUT TO SPEAK TO THIS. WHEN COULD WE GET THIS BACK ON THE AGENDA? AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> YES, SIR. AS SOON AS A PRACTICAL TIMEFRAME, OBVIOUSLY, THE HOLIDAYS ARE COMING UP. IT'S GOING TO PUT US INTO JANUARY. IT'S THE JANUARY 15TH HEARING.

>> IS THAT ACCEPTABLE?

>> I ASSUME IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE.

WE DO APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK WITH SOME OPTIONS.

>> I'M INCLINED TO VOTE ON THE CONTINUANCE IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION.

>> I'M IN FAVOR OF IT.

>> DO WE NEED A VOTE?

>> LET'S VOTE FORMALLY SO THERE'S NO MIXUP.

>> MERRY CHRISTMAS. HAPPY NEW YEAR.

SEE YOU NEXT YEAR. >> SEE YOU JANUARY 15TH.

[8. ZVAR 2025-16 203 Canal Boulevard (Rails Family). Request for a Zoning Variance to Section 2.02.04.B.4 of the Land Development Code to allow for the eave height of an Accessory Structure to be greater than the eave height of the Main Use residential building.]

ITEM NUMBER 8. BRUCE HUMP FREE IS GOING TO PRESENT ON THE RAILS FAMILY. LET'S TAKE EX PARTE.

>> I DID A SITE VISIT. I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION.

AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A RESIDENT NAMED BRAD BILLINGSLY.

IT WAS A SPONTANEOUS CONVERSATION BUT I'M DISCLOSING IT.

SEVERAL E- MAILS IN PETITION.

>> WE SPOKE THIS MORNING BY PHONE. THE APPLICATION WE DISCUSSED SOME OF THE MITIGATING PROPOSALS HE MIGHT HAVE DEALING WITH A THAT.

>> I I HAD CONVERSATION WITH MR. HUMPHREY AND ALSO DROVE BY THE AREA.

>> THEY VISITED THE AREA ON NOVEMBER 29TH.

RECEIVED A CALL AND SPOKE WITH MR. HUMPHREY ON DECEMBER 2ND AND

[02:35:06]

SHARED WITH HIM A AT THAT TIME SOME OF MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE REQUEST.

I THINK WE RECEIVED A COUPLE COMMUNICATIONS FROM NEIGHBORS TODAY ABOUT THE PROJECT.

>> WE DID. THEY WERE ON OUR DESK.

THERE WERE SOME S AS WELL. WE DISCUSSED VARIOUS OPTIONS. HOW TO POTENTIALLY MOVE FORWARD.

THE FLOOR IS YOURS, SIR.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF IN THE AURD YENS.

THEY HAVE BEEN SITTING BEHIND ME.

THIS IS VARIANCE NUMBER 2025-16. THEIR PROPERTY IS AT 203 CANAL BOULEVARD. AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF CANAL BOULEVARD.

YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE VARIANCE THAT WE'RE SEEKING HERE IS ESSENTIALLY FROM A BUILDING PERMIT THAT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY ISSUED BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT BUT WAS SUBSEQUENTLY REVOKED ALONG WITH THE CLEARANCE LETTER.

ESSENTIALLY, THIS IS THE SINGLE- FAMILY HOME THAT'S ONE STORY. YOU CAN KIND OF SEE ON THE GRAPHIC THERE WHERE THE RED DOT THERE IS THE MAIN FAMILY HOME. THE NORTH OF THAT IS THE TWO-BAY GARAGE THAT WAS FOR RV STORAGE OR BOAT STORAGE.

IT'S TECHNICALLY AN ACCESSORY BUILDING. THEY APPLIED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT UNDER THE ACCESSORY BUILDING CRITERIA. THEY SUBMITTED THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS.

THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS SHOWED THE HEIGHT. THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING, THE EVE HEIGHT AND SO FORTH AND SET ABOUT CONSTRUCTING THE BUILDING AND SPENT $120,000 DOING THAT. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE HOUSE THAT'S TO THE REAR OR TO THE EAST OF THEIR PROPERTY IS A TWO- STORY STRUCTURE.

FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, THEY SEE A VERY TALL PEAK FROM THEIR BACKYARD. THAT'S ACTUALLY THE SIDE YARD TO THAT HOUSE TO THE EAST. THE TWO HOUSES ACROSS THE STREET ON WILDERNESS TRAIL, THERE'S TWO RELATIVELY BRAND NEW HOMES THAT WERE ALL CONSTRUCTED AFTER THIS GARAGE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED. SO NOT ONLY WERE THEY CONSTRUCTED AFTER, BUT IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THEY WERE PURCHASED BY THE OWNERS WHILE THE RV STORAGE BUILDING WAS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE.

THIS IS THE VIEW FROM WILDERNESS TRAIL LOOKING TO THE NORTH.

THE RAILS PROPERTY IS UP THERE AHEAD ON THE RIGHT.

YOU CAN SEE THE WHITE SIDE OF THE EXISTING HOME AND THEN IN THE DISTANCE BEYOND IT IS THE TOP OF THE RV STORAGE BUILDING. YOU SEE THE TWO HOUSES TO THE LEFT AND THE HOUSES ESSENTIALLY ACROSS THE STREET.

THOSE ARE ALSO A LARGE TWO- STORY HOMES.

YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE PEAK TO THE HOUSE THAT'S TO THE EAST OF THE RAILS PROPERTY, WHICH IS A VERY TALL TWO-STORY STRUCTURE THERE.

THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE FROM THE TRAIL. YOU CAN SEE THE GARAGE TO THE LEFT OF THE EXISTING GARAGE. THIS VARIANCE APPLICATION IS AS IT RELATES TO THIS VARIANCE BETWEEN OVERALL HEIGHT AND EVE HEIGHT BETWEEN THE ACCESSORY BUILDING AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.

THE CODE DOESN'T NECESSARILY LIMIT WHAT THOSE HEIGHTS ARE.

IT JUST STATES THAT'VE HEIGHT AND OVERALL HEIGHTS SHOULD MATCH OR PERHAPS BE LESS WITH THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. THE ISSUE IS THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ACTUALLY EXCEEDS OVERALL HEIGHT AND EVE HEIGHT BY A FEW FEET. THIS IS THE VIEW LOOKING SOUTH ACROSS CANAL BOULEVARD AND DOWN WILDERNESS TRAIL.

YOU CAN SEE THE RAILS BUILDING IS THERE ON THE LEFT.

THIS IS THE VIEW SOUTHWEST FROM CANAL BOULEVARD IT WAS THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET. I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE CITIZENS HERE ARE THE APPEARANCE OF THE STRUCTURE AND I'LL ADDRESS THAT IN A MINUTE. BUT ESSENTIALLY, THE HISTORY AND

[02:40:01]

PERHAPS STAFF WILL CHIME IN ON THIS AS WELL AS THEY SUBMITTED CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND WENT THROUGH THE REVIEW PROCESS, THEY ARE ISSUED A BUILDING PERMIT AND THEN THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, THE COUNTY ACKNOWLEDGED THEY MADE A MISTAKE IN ISSUING THE BUILDING PLAN AND THE PERMIT BOTH PERMIT AND CLEARING SHEET.

SO ESSENTIALLY FROM THE VARIANCE STANDPOINT, THIS IS NOT A HARDSHIP THAT WAS CREATED. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HEADED OFF EARLY ON IN THE APPROVAL PROCESS. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OPTIONS THAT COULD BE DONE IN ORDER TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION, ONE WOULD BE DEMOLISH THE BUILDING. THAT'S PRETTY HARSH AND NOT VERY PRACTICAL IN TERMS OF CERTAINLY WOULDN'T ACHIEVE THE OBJECTIVES OF HAVING AN RV GARAGE ON THE PROPERTY. THE SCREENING WAS AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION THAT'S IN THE CODE. IT SUGGESTS THAT DEPENDING ON THE SHAPE AND THE SIZE OF THE PROPERTY ON WHICH THE ACCESSORY BUILDING IS CONSTRUCTS, IT COULD BE SCREENED WITH LANDSCAPING, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE BUILDING IS ON THE CORNER AND THE DEPTH THAT IT HAS, THERE'S REALLY JUST NO WAY TO SCREEN THE BUILDING WITHOUT ELIMINATING ITS USE. SO IT WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE AND COST PROHIBITIVE AND NOT EVEN LOOK ESTHETICALLY PLEASING OR LESS SO THAN IT COULD.

THE OTHER OPTION IS TO SOMEHOW ALTER THE OVERALL HEIGHT OR EVES OF THE EXISTING STORAGE BUILDING, WHICH PERHAPS -- I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, BUT ENGINEERS GIVE THEM ENOUGH MONEY AND THEY'LL MAKE ANYTHING WORK.

I'M REALLY NOT SURE HOW YOU COULD DO THAT TO THIS BUILDING.

MAYBE YOU COULD ACHIEVE THE SAME OVERALL HEIGHT AND EVE HEIGHT AND STILL OPERATE AS AN RV GARAGE. I'M NOT SURE THAT'S POSSIBLE. KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE ONLY HERE TODAY BECAUSE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE WAS NOT TWO STORY. THE EXISTING RESIDENCE WAS TWO STORY, WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE. THAT ACCESSORY BUILDING EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS, THE ZONING IS THIS PARCEL IS ZONED O.R. IT'S NOT IN A SUBDIVISION.

THERE'S NO COVENANCE OR RESTRICTIONS THAT GOVERN THE OUTSIDE APPEARANCE. THERE'S NO RESTRICTIONS THAT GOVERNED WHAT IT'S SKINNED WITH.

THIS IS AN OPEN RURAL LOT. AND IT'S GOVERNED BY THE CODE AND THAT'S IT. ONE OF THE OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT WAS LOOKED AT WAS IF THESE TWO STRUCTURES WERE CONNECTED, IF THEY WERE CONNECTED IN A WAY THAT NO LONGER BECAME AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, WOULD THAT THEN PASS MUSTER WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. APPARENTLY MR. ROVERSON IS HERE AND CAN EXPLAIN THE FURTHER TE TAIL. BUT THAT WAS EXPLORED.

A PERMIT WAS ISSUED IN ORDER TO ALLOW THAT TO ACCOMMODATE THAT STRUCTURE, THAT CONNECTION THAT APPARENTLY THAT WAS AS WELL.

ANOTHER THING THAT SOME OF THE RESIDENTS MAYBE CONCERNED ABOUT AS WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS, IT'S NOT TINNISHED.

THE DRIVEWAY CONNECTION IS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED.

THE LANDSCAPING HASN'T BEEN FINISHED IN PART BECAUSE THE PERMIT WAS REVOKED. ONCE THE PERMIT WAS REINSTATED, ASSUMING THE VARIANCES IS GRANTED, THEN THE DRIVEWAY CONNECTION WILL BE MADE, LANDSCAPING WILL BE MADE AND IT WILL BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FINISHED THAN IT DOES NOW.

SO ALONG THOSE LINES, IN AN EFFORT TO ENHANCE SOME OF THE APPEARANCE AND PERHAPS ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT THE NEIGHBORS HAVE, THE RAILS ARE PROPOSING THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. THE FIRST WOULD BE TO PLANT

[02:45:09]

THREE MAGNOLIA TREES ALONG CANAL BOULEVARD.

THE SECOND WOULD BE TO PLANT PLANTS ALONG THE SIGN.

YOU CAN'T TO THAT ON THE WILDERNESS TRAIL SIDE BECAUSE THERE'S THE TWO RV BAYS TAKE UP THE WHOLE FRONTAGE THERE. THEY WOULD COMPLETE THE CONNECTIONS ON THE WILDERNESS TRAIL SIDE. THEY ALSO WOULD RESTRICT OR LIMIT NO DRIVEWAY CONNECTIONS WILL BE MADE TO THE DOOR THAT IS LOCATED ON THE BOULEVARD SIDE. SO THE IDEA IS MAGNOLIA TREES WOULD GROW AND FILL OUT AND PROVIDE A MUCH GREATER SCREEN AND VISUAL, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF ANESTHETIC APPEAL ALONG THE CANAL BOULEVARD SIDE. WE TALKED ABOUT ANY KIND OF VEGETATION ALONG THE EASTERN SIDE BETWEEN THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AND THE FENCE. THERE'S A WELL AND A PUMP BACK THERE AND SOME OTHER STRUCTURES. THERE'S NOT ROOM TO DO THAT.

AND REALLY THE FOCUS IS GOING TO BE THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT FACES CANAL BOULEVARD AND DOING THINGS TO ENHANCE THE APPEARANCE THERE.

S THAT ALL I HAVE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

I WOULD LIKE TO RESERVE TIME TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

RESPOND TO ANY COMMENTS BY THE NEIGHBORS.

>> THAT'S THE PRESENTATION FOR NOW.

OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD?

>> SO THE SIDE DOOR, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY ACCESS TO THAT OR ANYTHING?

>> NO DRIVEWAY ALONG THE CANAL BOULEVARD FRONTAGE.

>> ON THE OTHER SIDE WHERE THE TWO DOORS ARE, IS THERE GOING TO BE TWO SEPARATE DRIVEWAYS OR A TOTAL SLAB IN THERE? IS THAT GOING TO BE CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY?

>> JUST ONE DRIVEWAY CONNECTION TO THE RIGHT DOOR ONLY.

APPARENTLY THE CODE ONLY ALLOWS THAT.

>> TO BREAK IT UP SOME, I'M GLAD TO SEE YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IN A LITTLE BIT OF SHRUBBERY IN THERE AND SO FORTH.

WHAT ABOUT SOME FAKE WINDOWS? TO REALLY GET THAT BARN EFFECT OUT OF IT. AND PUT WINDOWS IN THERE?

>> I ACTUALLY RESEARCHED THAT TO SEE IF WE TRIED TO FIND FAKE WINDOWS.

SHORT OF JUST CREATING SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD ATTACH TO THE OUTSIDE, I DID NOT FIND ANY FINISHED PRODUCT THAT WAS AVAILABLE.

THERE'S PLENTY OF WINDOWS FOR THESE TYPES OF BUILDINGS, SO SOME COMBINATION OF EITHER ACTUAL WINDOWS OR FAKE WINDOWS, I THINK WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE.

>> DO YOU HAVE THE PICTURES? DO YOU HAVE THEM ON THUMB DRIVE? THAT'S A FAKE- STYLE WINDOW THAT THE OTHER WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE, BUT AGAIN, IT WOULD BREAK UP THAT HUGE WALL THAT'S THERE, BOTH THERE AND ALSO ON THE BACKSIDE THAT BACKS UP TO THE RESIDENCE. THEY HAVE THE WALL TO LOOK AT AS WELL. SO I'M JUST LOOKING A AT SOMETHING TO POSSIBLY BREAK IT UP AND ALSO POSSIBLY PUT SOME SMALL ROOFS OVER THE DOORWAYS. AGAIN, THAT BREAKS UP THIS MASSIVE STRUCTURE. AND JUST FROM VISITING THE SITE SEVERAL TIMES, THEY NEED TO PUT SOME GUTTERS ON THERE AS WELL. ALL THAT DIRT BECAUSE OF THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING, ALL THAT WATER COMING OFF THE ROOF IS HITTING THAT GROUND REALLY HARD AND IT'S GOING UP ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. COULD YOU COME UP PLEASE?

[02:50:08]

GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

>> BRIAN RAILS. 141.

SO THIS SIDE HERE IS ALL GRASS THERE'S NOT A LOT SPLASHING UP. THE ST. AUGUSTINE IS PRETTY THICK THERE.

THE OTHER SIDE WILL HAVE PAPERS. I JUST HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING YET SINCE THE PERMIT STOPPED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. SO THAT SIDE IN BETWEEN THE HOME WILL HAVE ALL DWUTERS. THIS SIDE HERE IS THE GABLE.

THERE'S NO WATER THERE.

>> I UNDERSTAND ON THE HOUSE SIDE BECAUSE THAT WOULD CAUSE POSSIBLE ISSUES THERE, BUT I WAS MORE SO CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIRT SIDE WHERE THE GRASS IS.

THAT WON'T STAY GRASS LONG. THAT'S WHY THERE WAS A CONCERN.

THE FRONT HERE I'M SHOWING IS POSSIBLY SOME SHRUBS THAT GO IN THERE, SOME SHORT SHRUBS.

TO BREAK UP THE STRUCTURE. ASK POSSIBLY ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE PROPERTY BEHIND THE GARAGE HERE, THEY HAVE THE SHRUBS UP THERE ALREADY.

SINCE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO USE THAT SIDE DOOR IS TO RUN A FEW SHRUBS THERE TO BREAK IT UP.

>> THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

>> YOU DON'T LIVE IN THE HOUSE?

>> MY FATHER-IN-LAW LIVED THERE.

HE JUST MOVED OUT A FEW MONTHS AGO.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

MR. OLSON?

>> WHOMEVER IS THE ILLUSTRATION THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US NOW WITH THE FAKE WINDOWS AND THE STYLIZED LANDSCAPING STRUGSS, IS THAT -- DID YOU ALL BRING THIS? YOU MADE IT UP. OKAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS.

I'LL RESERVE MY DETAILED COMMENTS UNTIL AFTER THE CITIZENS THAT MAYBE HERE CAN COMMENT, BUT I'LL JUST SHARE SOMETHING. IN THE ARCHITECTURE PROFESSION, THERE'S A SAYING THAT DOCTORS BURY THEIR MISTAKES.

ARCHITECTS PLANT IVY. I WOULD SAY THAT THIS GOES WELL BEYOND BEING ABLE TO BE LANDSCAPED BECAUSE OF ITS SHEER SIZE, MASS, AND HOW IT SITS ON THE SITE AND IN IN NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT LOOKS QUITE INDUSTRIAL. ADDING THE WINDOWS STILL MAKES IT LOOK LIKE AN INDUSTRIAL, LARGE, OVERSIZED BUILDING IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION. I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT.

>> NOT SUPPOSED TO APPLAUD PLEASE.

THANK YOU.

>> YES. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE BOARD.

DON'T GO TOO FAR. DO YOU REMEMBER AN APPLICATION FOR A STORAGE FACILITY THAT WAS ON DOCTORS VILLAGE PLACE UP IN JULIAN CREEK AREA? AND THERE WAS A MONT SORRY SCHOOL NEXT TO IT.

IT WAS REALLY LARGE.

IT WAS BACK. WE TALKED ABOUT SOME TREES THAT GREW REALLY FAST AND THEY ARE THIN, NARROW TREES. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THOSE TREES ARE? THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT.

>> I BELIEVE THEY WERE GOING TO BE PINE TREES.

>>S IT WAS SOMETHING BESIDES THAT.

>> EUCALYPTUS.

>> IT WAS CLOSE TO THE BUILDING.

>> I WANTED TO WATCH IT, AND I COULDN'T FIND IT.

THE FACTS ARE, YES, IT'S NOT AN HOA, BUT THE FACTS ARE THAT TO BE ABLE TO NO ANSWER. SO WE NEED TO COME UP WITH WAYS TO MITIGATE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. SO THIS WAS JUST A THOUGHT THAT I HAD. KIND OF LIKE IVY, BUT IT'S LITTLE SMALL TREES THAT ARE TALL AND THIN AND GROW FAST.

[02:55:05]

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CALLED.

>> I THINK YOU WERE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT IT UP.

LIKE A CYPRUS.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN I'M GOING TO HAVE MORE.

>> THE AREA BY THE SCHOOL YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, IT WAS NOT RESIDENTIAL.

>> IT WASN'T RESIDENTIAL. I THINK PART OF THE THING DRIVING AROUND, JUST THE FEEL OF THIS IS SO DIFFERENT THAN EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S AROUND THERE. THERE JUST NEEDS TO BE A WAY TO MITIGATE THAT. IF IT THIS IS GOING TO BE APPROVED. THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE IT NOT BE SO -- IT'S A BIG ASK TO MAKE IT FIT.

THAT'S MY THOUGHT. WE'LL TALK AFTER PUBLIC COMMENT.

>> DO WE KNOW WHAT PLANS, THIS IS NOR YOU, MR. HUMPHREY, DO WE KNOW WHAT PLANS WERE SUBMITTED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? WERE THOSE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT GOT BUILT? OR IS THIS WHAT WAS PROPOSED TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT BEFORE THEY MADE THEIR GLARING ERROR?

>> YES, SIR, THIS BUILDING AND THE CLEARANCE SHEET FOR THIS BUILDING WERE WHAT WAS APPROVED.

>> I DO WANT TO SAY THAT I THOUGHT -- I WILL HAVE TO ADMIT, AND I TOLD YOU THIS ON THE PHONE YESTERDAY, THIS HAS HONESTLY BEEN KEEPING ME AWAKE AT NIGHT. THIS PARTICULAR ITEM.

IT'S REALLY GNAWING AT HE. IT'S REALLY TOUGH.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO GET RESOLVED. I THINK THE PROPOSED MITIGATION OF PLANTING THREE MAGNOLIA TREES, PLANTING BOX PLANTS ON CANAL BOULEVARD, DRIVEWAY CONNECTION TO WILDERNESS TRAIL, NO DRIVEWAY TO CANAL BOULEVARD, I DON'T THINK THAT'S ADEQUATE N MY OPINION. THAT'S NOT ADEQUATE MITIGATION OR FOCUS. THAT WOULD BE THE FOCUS.

I'D LIKE TO SEE A FOCUS ON THE PROPERTY. I DON'T KNOW IF JOHN AND SUSAN ARE HERE.

THEY APPARENTLY ARE.

BESIDES THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE REALLY AFFECTED BY THIS, IF THIS WERE NEXT TO MY HOUSE, ALL OF A SUDDEN APPEARED, IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT SORT OF RESOLUTION WE'RE GOING TO COME TO, BUT THE NICE LETTER THAT HAD VALID CONCERNS IN MY OPINION. SO I THINK UNLESS THERE'S ANYONE ELSE OR OTHERS THAT WANT THE TO SPEAK TO THIS, IT'S TIME TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC ON THIS PUBLIC COMMENT. YOU WANT A LIVE MIC?

>> PLEASE COME UP, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES EACH.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M GREG LEONARD AT 2027 PALMETTO DRIVE.

I'M HERE AS PRESIDENT OF THE COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION.

I'M REPRESENTING BOTH OUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND THE MANY, MANY RESIDENTS WHO HAVE SHARED THEIR OPPOSITION TO THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 203 CANAL BOULEVARD. THAT IS CLEARLY IN VIOLATION OF THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

ACCORDING TO SECTION 2024 OF OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, PRIVATE GARAGES AND STORAGE BUILDINGS MAYBE CONSTRUCTED PROVIDED SUCH STRUCTURE IS ACCESSORY IN SIZE.

TO THE MAIN RESIDENTIAL BUILDING AND NO GREATER HEIGHT OF THE MAIN USE STRUCTURE.

YOU WANT TO SHARE MY PICTURE.

IT GIVES A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT IT DOES LOOK LIKE TO DRIVE DOWN THIS STREET OR LIVE ACROSS FROM IT. THE PALMETTO COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION CLEARLY REQUESTS DENIAL OF THIS VARIANCE REQUEST FOR THE FOLLOWING FACTUAL REASONS. FIRST, INCONSISTENCY WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. SECOND, LACK OF PRECEDENT IN THE PALM VALLEY OVERLAY DISTRICT. MR. HUMPHREY MENTIONED THERE ARE NO GUIDELINES, BUT THERE'S AN OVERLAY DISTRICT THAT WE TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY. THERE ARE NO SIMILAR STRUCTURES WITH INCREASED EVE HEIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED WITHIN OUR OVERLAY DISTRICT. THIRD, THE VISUAL IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY. THE INCREASED EVE HEIGHT OF THIS ACCESSORY BUILDING, ESPECIALLY WITH THE LARGE BAY

[03:00:01]

DOORS, HAS HAD A DETRIMENTAL VISUAL IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

IT'S SIMPLY NOT IN HARMONY WITH THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES.

TO ME, IT'S HUMANHOUSE TO COMPARE TWO- STORY HOUSES BUILT ACROSS THE STREET WHEN THE ISSUE ISN'T ABOUT HOUSES, IT'S ABOUT ACCESSORY BUILDING. FINALLY, I HAVE A QUESTION. IF THIS WERE A ZONING VARIANCE REQUEST FOR A BUILDING NOT YET CONSTRUCTED, WOULD YOU VOTE TO ALLOW THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TO BE BUILT ON THIS SITE? IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO, THEN YOU SHOULD VOTE TO DENY THE VARIANCE. YOU ARE NOT BEING ASKED TO CONDEMN, MODIFY OR MOVE THE STRUCTURE.

THAT DECISION IS GOING TO COME FROM OTHER COUNTY DEPARTMENTS.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT, PLEASE COME FORWARD.

>> IF YOU'D GIVE THE PHOTO.

>> MY NAME IS SCOTT. CPA, I I PREPARED THREE HOURS OF COMMENTS, BUT I'LL TRY TO GET IT

DOWN TO THREE MINUTES FOR YOU. >> THE ADDRESS PLEASE?

>> 110 SOUTH WILDERNESS TRAIL, SO DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE MONSTROSITY.

YEARS AGO, WE MOVED FROM ORANGE COUNTY, WHICH WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE LIVED IN ORANGE COUNTY.

YOU COULD SEE THERE WERE VERY LAX BUILDING STANDARDS. THEY LET ANYTHING GO UP AND PROPERTY VALUES AND THEREFORE, COUNTY TAXES HAVE NOT REALLY RISEN AT ALL IN THAT AREA.

WE WERE PLEASED WHEN WE MOVED TO ST. JOHNS COUNTY THAT THERE WERE MUCH TIGHTER REGULATIONS AND BOARDS THAT ACTUALLY FOLLOWED THE CODES.

I WAS SURPRISED WHEN WE WERE HAVING ANOTHER HEARING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I HAD BEEN TOLD THAT THE BUILDING WAS DONE ON AN OWNER-OCCUPIED PERMIT, AND THE PERSON DOESN'T LIVE THERE.

THEY HAVE NEVER LIVED THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GET AN OWNER-OCCUPIED PERMIT FOR THAT BUILDING IN THE FIRST PLACE. BUT THEN I WAS TOLD ALSO BY THE OWNER AND HIS FATHER-IN- LAW ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO, WELL, THE BUILDING IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME DOWN, BUT THE COUNTY IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU STAND ON THAT OR WHAT WILL END UP HAPPENING, BUT THAT'S CLEARLY A COMMERCIAL BUILDING IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU PLANTED A SET KUWAIT YA ON THE SIDE, IT'S NEVER GOING TO BLOCK THE VIEW OF IT. IT'S LIKE SLAPPING LIPSTICK ON A PIG. IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT. THE VALUE OF OUR HOUSE HAS DROPPED, WHICH ALSO AFFECTS THE COUNTY'S TAX ROLES. WE ARE TRYING TO SELL OUR HOME.

EVERY TIME SOMEBODY COMES TO LOOK AT IT, HAY THEY SAY, WITH THAT COMMERCIAL BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BUY IT.

THAT'S BASICALLY -- I ASK THAT YOU DENY THE VARIANCE.

FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT, WHETHER IT GETS REMOVED. I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER WAY IT COULD BE TAKEN CARE OF. AND PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC AND BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY.

THANK YOU.

>> MY NAME IS KATIE JOHNSON. I CURRENTLY LIVE A AT 3249 OLD BARN ROAD IN SAWGRASS. I HAVE OWNED AND LIVED IN ROSCO BOULEVARD AROUND THE CORNER FROM THIS FOR THE LAST 13 YEARS.

SO I HAVE BEEN A RESIDENT FOR 13 YEARS. I'M BORN AND RAISED IN ST.

JOHNS COUNTY. I'M ALSO A REALTOR.

SCOTT JUST SPOKE. I AM HAVING TROUBLE SELLING THEIR HOME. SO I SOLD THEM THIS HOME.

AND THE ATTORNEY THAT SPOKE REPRESENTING SPOKE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY HAD A COUPLE MISSPEAKINGS, BUT THE SHEET DID NOT HAVE THE EVE HEIGHTS ON IT. I HAVE A COPY OF THE CLEARANCE SHEET I CAN E-MAIL YOU, BUT THEY WEREN'TEN THERE. NOT TO THE OWNER'S FAULT.

THE COUNTY APPROVED THIS.

THEY DID NOT HAVE THE CORRECT INFORMATION ON IT.

THE PERMIT WAS NOT FOR $120,000. IT WAS FOR $30,000.

I HAVE THE PERMIT, WHICH COUNTY REQUIRES IF YOU'RE GOING TO PULL A PERMIT AS AN OWNER, YOU CANNOT LEASE THE PROPERTY.

YOU HAVE TO OWN THE PROPERTY AND LIVE IN IT, IS MY UNDERSTANDING. THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN LEASED CURRENTLY FOR RENT FO $2,500 A MONTH WHEN YOU SEARCH ONLINE. THAT WAS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE CODE REQUIREMENT TO PULL A PERMIT AS AN OWNER OCCUPANT. I HAVE COP MISS OF THAT.

THAT'S NUMBER FOUR ON YOUR OWNER BUILDER SEEKING PERMITS. IT'S AN AFFIDAVIT THAT MUST BE SIGNED TO PULL A PERMIT AS AN OWNER, BUT THEN THE HOUSE WAS NEVER A RESIDENCE.

IT WAS IMMEDIATELY LEASED, WHETHER IT WAS TO A FAMILY MEMBER OR NOT, THEY WEREN'T LIVING IN THE PROPERTY. THIS BUILDING HAS CAUSED SO

[03:05:02]

MANY PROBLEMS IN PALM VALLEY. IT'S THE ENTRANCE AND FACE OF OUR COMMUNITY. WHEN YOU'RE HEADING TO VALLEY SMOKE OR ANYWHERE, YOU DRIVE PAST THIS BUILDING.

IT'S NOT THE OWNER'S FAULT THAT THE COUNTY APPROVED IT. THAT'S THE COUNTY'S FAULT.

IT WAS DONE WRONG. IT SHOUB CORRECTED.

NO AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU PLANT, WILL HIDE THIS BUILDING. IT'S A COMMERCIAL BUILDING IN A RESIDENTIAL HOME. I'M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS. IT'S DISHEARTENING.

RECENTLY, THE REALTOR SHOWED THE HOUSE TWO DAYS AGO SAID THE BUYERS ARE INTERESTED.

THEY CAME BACK FOR A SECOND SHOWING.

IT'S PERFECT FOR THEM. THEY HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE GARAGE ACROSS THE STREET. IT'S LITERALLY HURTING EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY VALUES.

IF IT YOU WERE AN OWNER, YOU WOULD NOT WANT THAT BUILDING DRIVING BY AND LOOKING OUT WHEN YOU WALK OUT YOUR FRONT DOOR. I CAN'T CARE WHAT YOU PLANT.

NOTHING WILL HIDE THIS BUILDING. IT'S SO MANY CODE VIOLATIONS. I CAN SEND YOU AN E- MAIL WITH EVERYTHING. IT'S NOT JUST ONE ISSUE. IT'S NOT JUST THE EVE HEIGHT. BUILDINGS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

THIS ISTHE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY.

THE ADDRESS IS CANAL BOULEVARD. THAT'S THE OTHER ISSUE.

THE EVES ARE INCORRECT. THEN A LETTER WAS SUBMITTED TO THE OWNERS ON JULY ASKING FOR --

>> I'D ACTUALLY LIKE HER TO CONTINUE.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> SORRY.

I DON'T LIKE TO PUBLIC SPEAK. I'M SUPER NERVOUS.

IN JULY AN OWNER FROM JOY WAS SENT ASKING FOR THE LANDSCAPING TO BE COMPLETED. THEY DID NOT NEAT A PERMIT FOR THAT. THE LETTER STATED THAT THEY NEEDED TO GO AHEAD AND RECTIFY THIS.

YET NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.

I HAVE A COPY OF THAT LETTER. THAT WAS JULY OF 2024.

HOMEOWNERS IN PALM VALLEY HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS TO BE EVEN SOMETHING TO BE ADDRESSED FOR A YEAR AND A HALF.

NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

IT HAS BEEN SITTING THERE. IT'S GOING TO DETERIORATE.

IT'S A METAL BUILDING. THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF BUILDING CODE. IT SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE A BUILDING THAT'S GOING TO DETERIORATE.

TOUGH MAINTAIN IT. WE ALL KNOW UK NOT MAINTAIN A SHED. THAT'S BASICALLY A SHED. IT'S GOING TO RUST. IT'S GOING TO LOOK HORRIBLE IN FOUR TO FIVE YEARS. METAL BUILDINGS DON'T LAST.

THEY DON'T MAINTAIN. IT IS HURTING EVERYBODY'S VALUE. I DON'T CARE IN YOU LIVE ON ROSCO BOULEVARD, CANAL, A ALL OF OUR PROPERTIES HAVE GONE DOWN BECAUSE WHEN SOMEBODY FROM OUT OF TOWN PULLS INTO OUR COMMUNITY, AN HISTORICAL COMMUNITY, THAT IS AN HISTORICAL MARKER FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

IT'S IN THE COUNTRY RENDERINGS. YOU CAN SEE THAT.

THIS IS AN HISTORICAL AREA. EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY VALUES WILL DIMINISH BUZZ OF THIS BUILDING.

>> OKAY.

I WAS REALLY NERVOUS. >> THANK YOU.

>> NIP ELSE? ANYONE ELSE?

>> JOHN, 207 CANAL BOULEVARD. THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING MY NAME. I'M NOT GOING TO REITERATE THAT HAS BEEN SAID. I HAD A LOT OF STUFF IN THIS PARTICULAR PRESENTATION. I THINK WHEN IT COMES RIGHT DOWN TO IT, THE CASE IS THAT THAT BUILDING IS DOING MYSELF AND MY WIFE SOME HARM. AND THE FOUR POINTS ARE VERY EASY. IT'S OVERSIZED, VISUALLY OVERWHELMING, IT'S AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING, THOSE THREE DOORS, I DON'T EVEN THINK THEY ARE 16 FEET, I THINK THEY ARE 18. I THINK YOU COULD PUT MORE THAN A BOAT OR A BIG BOAT IN IN THERE.

IT'S COMPLETELY OUT OF SCALE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK WE HAVE ALL MENTIONED THAT. I THINK YOU AGREE WITH IT. THE ONE THING, YOU HAVE SAID SOMETHING THAT OTHER PEOPLE PROBABLY HAVEN'T NOTICED.

I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT THE VIEW IS.

RIGHT THERE ON THE LOWER SIDE OF THAT IS A HEDGE ROW.

THAT HEDGE ROW IS ABOUT SEVEN FEET HIGH.

I I ACTUALLY MAINTAIN THOSE. THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 400 FEET ON ONE SIDE AND 110 IN THE FRONT.

[03:10:06]

IF YOU'LL NOTICE, THAT WALL THAT STANDS NEXT TO MY HOUSE IS SOMETHING THAT SEE EVERY SINGLE DAY WHEN I WALK OUT THAT FRONT DOOR. THAT BOTHERS ME. IT BOTHERS MY WIFE. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS.

THAT HAS CREATED MY WIFE KNOWS THIS 22 MONTHS THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON. AND I THINK IT'S TIME TO BE SOLVED. WE HAVE HAD INITIAL MEETINGS.

MY WIFE AND I SAW IT GOING UP. I I CAME DOWN WITHIN HOURS. I WAS SITTING HERE AND THEY SAID, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO. GET OUT OF HERE. WE HAD A MEETING AT THE PALM VALLEY COMMUNITY CENTER. MIKE WAS THERE.

AT THAT MEETING, THIS WAS BROUGHT UP.

THAT WAS PROBABLY ONLY ABOUT A MONTH OR TWO AFTER THIS STARTED. AND MIKE WAS AWARE OF IT. OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY WERE AWARE OF IT. AND GUESS WHAT. NOTHING WAS DONE. NOW IT'S AT THE POINT WHERE SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

SO I URGE YOU NOT TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE.

FOR VARIOUS REASONS YOU ALREADY DISCUSSED. THIS IS JUST INSANE. WE CAN'T MOVE OUR HOUSE. WE CANNOT CHANGE THE VIEW.

WE CANNOT CHANGE THE DAILY

IMPACT. >> THANK YOU.

>> BRAD BILLINGSLY. I COME DOWN CANAL BOULEVARD EVERY DAY AND TURN ON WILDERNESS AND THAT'S WHEN I WRAP MYSELF AROUND. I HAVE TO SEE THIS.

COMMERCIAL BUILDING BUILT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT'S AN OLD HISTORICAL NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S HISTORIC FLORIDA.

IT'S OLD FLORIDA. THAT ROAD THAT I TURN ON ON WILDERNESS TRAIL WAS THE FIRST ROAD BUILT A LONG TIME AGO. AND THAT BUILDING IS NOTHINGS HISTORICAL ABOUT IT. IT'S A COMMERCIAL BUILDING.

IT'S LIKE YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN SOMEWHERE.

IT DOESN'T FIT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY MOVE INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY WANT THEIR NEIGHBORS TO LIKE THEM.

THEY GO IN, THEY TRY TO BUILD A HOUSE THAT'S NICE.

THEY TRY TO BUILD A HOUSE THAT MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO INCREASE YOUR PROPERTY VALUE.

THEY WANT EVERYTHING TO GO UP. THE TELEPHONE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE TOWERS. THE TOWERS, WORRIED ABOUT THE TOWERS STICKING UP ABOVE THE TREE LIMBS.

THOSE ARE TINY. THIS IS HUGE.

IT'S OBNOXIOUS WHEN YOU DRIVE IN.

OBNOXIOUSNESS IS NOT WHAT PALM VALLEY IS.

THERE'S A LOT OF NICE PEOPLE THAT ENJOY LIFE, WE GO ALONG.

THEY GO ABOUT THEIR OWN BUSINESS 90% OF THE TIME. BUT WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN FROM OUT OF TOWN AND BUILDS A MONSTROSITY OF SOMETHING THAT JUST SLAPS US IN THE FACE, IT'S KIND OF INSULTING. TO THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT DOWN.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME DOWN. IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE.

IT SHOULDN'T BE BE THERE. IF THEY DID PUT DRIVEWAYS IN, THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY WOULD HAVE SIX DRIVEWAYS ON IT. THAT'S KIND OF RIDICULOUS.

I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY. Y'ALL KNOW THAT I'M TOTALLY AGAINST THIS.

I THINK IT'S OBNOXIOUSLY WRONG. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

>> MY NAME IS MICHAEL THAI, WILDERNESS TRAIL.

AND I HAVE LIVED THERE SINCE 2001.

I BUILT A NICE HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY.

A THREE- STYLE BARN OUT BACK.

IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

[03:15:01]

THERE'S PLENTY IN THAT AREA WHEN I MOVED IN.

AND EVERY DAY I HAVE TO DRIVE BYBY BUILDING.

I KNOW THE COMMUNITY. I HAVE LIVED IN THE AREA SINCE 1986.

I PRACTICED LAW IN THIS COMMUNITY. SO WHEN I FIRST GOT INTO THE PALM VALLEY SECTION, I WENT DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND DID SOME RESEARCH. I SAFED THESE DOCUMENTS.

ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS IS THE MAP. IT'S '72.

ON THIS MAP, IT SHOWS THE LITTLE SLICE OF PROPERTY HERE THAT THE GENTLEMAN OWNS WITH THE BUILDING ON IT. AND THAT SHOOTS DOWN SOUTH WILDERNESS TRAIL. IT'S PART OF THE LAND GRANT.

AND THE OTHER DIRECTION IS MAPBOOK 5. AND SO THESE ARE THE LAND GRANTS FOR THE BACKGROUND FOR THESE PROPERTIES.

SO I'M NUMBER 28 ON THAT PROPERTIES DOWN.

I SAVED IT. SO IT STARTS OUT RIGHT HERE.

IT MENTIONS A AT THE BEGINNING PAGE 66.

SO IT'S LIKE MAP 63. IT COVERS ALL THESE LANDS THAT FLOW DOWN TO THE RIVER AND AROUND THE AREA, INCLUDING THE LAND THAT WE'RE SPEAKING OF HERE TODAY.

IT GOES ON. I'LL JUST GET TO THE POINT BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S TIME RESTRICTED, BUT IT TALKS ABOUT THE RESTRICTIONS. AND A, IT SAYS NO NOXIOUS OR OFFENSIVE TRADE OR ACTIVITY SHALL BE BE CARRIED UPON ANY LOT, NOR SHALL ANYTHING BE DONE THEREON WHICH MAYBE OR BECOME AN ANNOYANCE OR NUISANCE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE ARE A NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CARE ABOUT ONE ANOTHER.

IF YOU READ A LITTLE FURTHER, IT SAYS AN EASEMENT OF THREE FEET IS RESERVED ON THE SIDELINES AT EACH TRACK FOR DRAINAGE PURPOSES.

SO WE ALL COMMUNICATE WITH ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE WE HAVE DRAINAGE ISSUES. IT'S A BIG ISSUE OUT THERE.

SO WE'RE A COMMUNITY AND WE'RE STANDING BY OUR FRIENDS.

AND WE'RE NOT IN ANY WAY IN AGREEMENT WITH THIS BUILDING.

>> THANK YOU, SIR, FOR PROVIDING THOSE DOCUMENTS.

>> WE LIVE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS.

AND JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THE OWNER HAS A TOTAL DISRESPECT FOR THIS BOARD AND THE REGULATIONS. WE HAVE SEEN HIM REMOVE THE ORANGE SIGNS FOR THIS MEETING TODAY.

PEF THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED AROUND BACKWARDS.

MY HUSBAND HAD TO E- MAIL THE COUNTY TO HAVE MORE ORANGE SIGNS PUT UP FOR THIS MEETING TODAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT KNOWN.

THANK YOU.

>> I LIVE AT 220 CANAL BOULEVARD.

YOU CAN SEE MY PROPERTY IN THAT PICTURE WHERE THE PALM TREE IS OVER THERE. WE HAVE 3.6 ACRES OVER THERE.

IT'S A HORSE FARM. AND MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE LIVED IN THIS AREA SINCE 1983. I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF BUILDINGS GO UP IN THOSE THOSE YEARS.

I HAVE SEEN SOME BIG GARAGES, SHEDS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THIS, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN ON OFF THE ROAD, YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THEM. YOU HAVE TO BE INVITED ON THE PROPERTY TO SEE THESE THINGS. I DON'T OBJECT TO BIG GARAGES.

DON'T AT ALL. BUT THIS, THIS IS FRONT AND CENTER. I'M NOT GOING TO REPEAT WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS SAID, BUT I 100% AGREE WITH ERG THEY SAID.

THIS IS MY VIEWVIE MY HORSE PASTURE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS PROPERTY IS CONSIDERED OPEN

[03:20:03]

RURAL. I WOULD LIKE THAT ANSWERED FOR ME.

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IT'S .34 ACRES.

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ACRE OF PROPERTY TO BE ZONED OPEN RURAL.

NOT ENOUGH LAND TO BE O.R. HOW IS THIS O.R.

PROPERTY? DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. I I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BUT THAT'S PART OF IT. IF THEY REALLY NED TO STORE AN RV AND CAN LIVE IN MARSH LANDING, WHY DON'T THEY RENT A STORAGE SPACE SOMEWHERE? STICK IT IN YOUR YARD, THE RV. I DON'T KNOW.

THIS IS REALLY UPSETTING TO ME AS WELL.

THEY ARE NOT MY NEIGHBORS. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER LAID EYES ON THEM.

THESE ARE MY NEIGHBORS. WE LIVE HERE. WE GET TOGETHER AND IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD. WE DO TRULY CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER. THERE'S NO LANDSCAPING LIKE OTHERS HAVE SAID. THERE'S NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE THIS BUILDING LOOK GOOD.

OR ACCEPTABLE IN MY EYES. NOTHING.

IT NEEDS TO COME DOWN.

IF THEY WANT A SMALLER GARAGE, FINE.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

WE THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO PUT IN THERE. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

>> I LIVE AT 520 NORTH WILDERNESS TRAIL.

SO I HAVE 1.25 ACRES. WE HAVE OWNED THE PROPERTY FOR OVER TEN YEARS. WE RECENTLY BUILT A NEW HOME.

I JUST AGREE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THE ATTORNEY SAID ABOUT THIS WAS GOING UP BEFORE THE OTHER HOUSE WAS BUILT.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PROCESS YOU GO THROUGH. A LOT OF PLANNING. YOU HAVE TO GET THE PERMITTING. THERE'S A LOT OF WORKING WITH BUILDERS, A LOT OF CONTRACTING THAT GOES ON BEFORE YOU START CONSTRUCTION.

SO A LOT OF US BUILDING BUILT BEFORE THIS THING HAD IN PROCESS BEFORE AND SPENT A LOT OF MONEY AND COMMITTED TO OUR PROJECTS BEFORE SEEING THIS BUILDING GO UP.

I FOUND IT INTERESTING LISTENING TO THE PREVIOUS APPLICANT.

ALL OF THEIR APPLICATIONS WERE REQUESTING VARIANCES OR CHANGES PRIOR TO MOVING AHEAD.

THIS IS THE ONLY ONE TODAY I HEARD THAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE TO FIX SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY BEEN CONSTRUCTED.

THAT'S A PROBLEM. WE ALL AGREE THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THE PERMITTING. I DISAGREE THAT THESE PROPERTY OWNERS WERE NOT AT FALL FAULT.

I THINK THERE WAS SOME MISREPRESENTATIONS IN THEIR APPLICATION. I DON'T THINK THEY ARE FULLY INNOCENT LIKE PREVIOUS RESIDENTS HAVE STATED. IT'S NOT OWNER OCCUPIED.

IT NEVER HAS BEEN. THESE PEOPLE MOVED INTO THE AREA SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND BOUGHT THREE PROPERTIES.

THEY NEVER LIVED HERE. I THINK IT'S AN INSULT THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH THIS AND BUILD THIS MONSTROSITY. AND RIGHT HERE THAT WE ALL HAVE TO LOOK AT, WE LIVE HERE LIKE PREVIOUS NEIGHBORS HAVE SAID.

WE ARE A COMMUNITY. WE JUST HAD A CHRISTMAS PARTY TOGETHER. GOT TOGETHER.

FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER SEEN THESE PEOPLE AS WELL.

THEY ARE NOT PART OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

HARDSHIP, IT'S A HARDSHIP ON US LIVING THERE. THESE ARE OUR HOMES. AND THEY ARE PERMANENT RESIDENCES. IT'S NOT THEIRS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WANT TO COME UP WITH AN AGREEABLE SOLUTION, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO HELP THESE PEOPLE WHEN THEY DON'T VALUE THIS COMMUNITY.

THEY DON'T LIVE HERE. THEY HAVE NEVER MADE ANY ATTEMPT TO MAKE CONNECTIONS OR HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH WITH ANY OF THIS.

OTHER THAN WHAT EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S BEEN SAID.

THEY WANT A STORAGE FACILITY. THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN FOR RENT.

IT'S FOR RENT ON REALTOR. COM RIGHT NOW FOR $2,500. THERE WAS A YOUNG COUPLE LIVING THERE BEFORE THIS WENT UP THAT WERE RENTING. EVER SINCE THAT WENT UP, THAT HOUSE HAS BEEN VACANT. THEY CAN'T RENT THIS. YOU KNOW WHAT THE PRICES ARE? JUST DOWN THE STREET OUR FRIENDS

RENTED THE HOUSE FOR $3,500. >> THANK YOU, MA'AM.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

[03:25:11]

>> I'M MATH MATTHEW BROWN AT WILDERNESS TRAIL. THAT WAS MY BOSS THAT JUST GOT FINISHED TALKING.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE PICKING UP ON THE EMOTION TODAY. I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT MY STORY. WE HAVE LIVED IN THE VALLEY SINCE 20002 AND RAISED OUR KIDS THERE. WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY 13 YEARS AGO. KEPT IT AS AS AN EMPTY PROPERTY. I FELT WELCOME. I MET SOME OF THE BEST PEOPLE. THERE'S A WONDERFUL MIX OF PROPERTIES THERE. BIG PROPERTIES GOING IN, HORSE FARMS, IT'S THE PERFECT PLACE TO LIVE. THAT'S WHY WE DECIDED THREE YEARS AGO TO BUILD OUR FOREVER HOME ON THAT PROPERTY. 520, WHICH IS JUST ONE LOT NORTH OF THE PROPERTY. WE STARTED THE PROCESS. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE A YEAR.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD THAT BEFORE. IT WAS MORE LIKE TWO AND A HALF YEARS GETTING IT BUILT. BUT WHEN WE FINALLY DID, WE MADE THIS HUGE INVESTMENT TO GET THERE.

IMAGINE MY SURPRISE WHILE WATCHING CONSTRUCTION WHEN I SEE A PAD OPEN AT A PROPERTY ON THE CORNER AND THOUGHT, I WONDER WHAT'S GOING THERE.

THEN WITHIN A WEEKEND IT SEEMED, THIS STRUCTURE WENT UP.

CLEARLY IN VIOLATION OF EVERY RULE THAT I CAN PUT MY HANDS ON.

AND I HEARD SOME CONJECTURE ABOUT HOW THE PERMITS WERE NOT PROPER AND SOME PEOPLE WERE MISLED.

BUT IF YOU KNOW PALM VALLEY, CANAL AND ILDERNESS TRAIL IS F PALM VALLEY.

THIS SITS IN THE HEART OF PALM VALLEY.

PEOPLE THAT COME VISIT PALM VALLEY, I WAS SO PROUD TO FINALLY GET MANY MY HOUSE. PEOPLE KNEW THE PROPERTY, BUT THEY FINALLY GOT TO COME TO MY HOUSE.

I STARTED FEELING SHAME WHEN PEOPLE ASKED ABOUT THE MONSTROSITY. I HAD NO ANSWERS.

IT HAS STRESSED THIS COMMUNITY. IT'S ALL THEY TALK ABOUT.

PEOPLE ARE UPSET. AND RIGHTLY SO.

THERE WAS SOME SORT OF PERMIT ACCIDENT, I UNDERSTAND.

PUT WE SHOULDN'T BEAR THE BRUNT OF THAT.

SUGGESTING THEY LIVED IN THE PROPERTY IS IMPROPER.

THESE ARE INVESTORS THAT CAME IN AND THREATENED PALM VALLEY. THE COMMUNITY THAT I SPENT 13 YEARS WAITING TO BUILD ON AND COME INTO.

WHEN I FINALLY DID FOR MY FOREVER HOME, WE GET THIS SHOT RIGHT IN THE FACE.

I SEE IT EVERY DAY LEAVING MY PROPERTY. EVERY DAY COMING BACK.

EVERY TIME I SAY THE UNFORTUNATE WORDS UNDER MY BREATH, IT REMOVE RUINED IT. SOMETHING HAS GONE TERRIBLY WRONG.

WE RELY ON YOU ALL TO HELP FIX IT. AT LEAST DON'T ALLOW THEM TO HAVE GET THEIR VARIANCE. DON'T GIVE THEM THE VARIANCE.

THAT'S A GOOD START IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.