[1. SUPMIN 2025-02 Byrd Mobile Home. Request for a Special Use Permit pursuant to Section 2.03.08 of the Land Development Code to allow for the placement of a Manufactured/Mobile Home in Residential, SingleFamily (RS-3) zoning, specifically located at 830 Broach Street.]

DO A VOICE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION PASSES. ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT, IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE TO SPEAK ON ITEMS THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE AGENDA. IF SO, PLEASE COME FORWARD. SEE NONE, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER ONE. WITH THE APPLICANT PLEASE COME FORWARD AND IS THERE ANY X PARTAKE FROM AGENCY MEMBERS? MS. SPIEGEL?

>> STAND RIGHT THERE AND JUST HOLD ON ONE SECOND.

>> I DID DO A SITE VISIT AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THIS LOVELY YOUNG LADY HERE, AND HER MOTHER, WHO IS THE PROPERTY

OWNER. >> MR. LABANOWSKI.

>> I DID A SITE VISIT AS WELL AND I TALKED TO THE NEIGHBOR.

>> MR. OLSON. >> SITE VISIT.

>> ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD, MA'AM.

>> HI, MY NAME IS SIOBHAN BIRD AND I DID QUITE A PRESENTATION, BUT JUST SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WE'RE TRYING TO GET A MOBILE HOME PUT ON THE PROPERTY FOR LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT AFFORDABLE, THE COST OF LIVING. JUST YOU KNOW, I'M NERVOUS.

>> OKAY. >> SO I'M TRYING TO DO IT IT, JUST COST-OF-LIVING. THAT'S ALL WE CAN AFFORD IN THE MOBILE HOME, SO THAT WAY WE COULD HAVE SOMETHING AFFORDABLE.

>> OKAY. AND SO YOU'RE REQUESTING FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO LAST FOR TWO YEARS UNTIL YOU CAN COMINS?

>> YES MA'AM. >> DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT? MR. OLSON, GO

AHEAD. >> WELL I GUESS MY QUESTIONS RELATE TO BYRD STREET IS A LOVELY STREET . IT HAS A LOT OF NEW INVESTMENT ON IT IN THE HOME OF SITE BUILT HOMES, IN A VERY TRADITIONAL, HARMONIOUS WAY. THERE ARE NO MOBILE HOMES ON BROOCH STREET NOW. HOW DOES ONE RECONCILE PUTTING A MOBILE HOME

[00:05:01]

IN THAT KIND OF A SETTING WHERE IT WILL BE VERY FOREIGN LOOKING OBJECT AMONG THE HARMONIOUS RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE

SITE? >> WELL I -- IT'S A MOBILE HOME DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET, A MOBILE HOME THERE. MOBILE HOMES ALL AROUND. SO AS I GUESS YOU SAY, THE TRAILER, THE WAY THE TRAILER BE POINTING ON BROACH STREET, I DON'T KNOW IF IT CAN TURN THE OTHER WAY. THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER QUESTION. BUT RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET IS -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT SIZE THE TRAILER BUT IT'S DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM BROACH STREET THAT'S ALREADY THERE AND YOU HAVE SEVERAL THAT'S DIRECTLY BEHIND SO IT'S DEFINITELY MOBILE HOMES IN THAT AREA ALREADY AND MOBILE HOME THERE. WE ARE TRYING TO GET -- HOPEFULLY, I MEAN THE STANDARDS OF THE MOBILE HOMES, THEY BUILD THEM MUCH NICER NOW SO I GUESS

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. >> THE FRONTAGE ON BROACH STREET IS TOTALLY NO MOBILE HOMES. THE FRONTAGE ON BROACH STREET SO I GUESS WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO --

>> THE ONE RIGHT ACROSS. >> ACROSS THE STREET. IS THAT?

>> MR. OLSON, IF YOU LOOK, AND YOU MAY NOT HAVE YOUR WHOLE BOOK BUT ON PAGE NINE, THE STAFF REPORT DOES HAVE ABOUT NINE MOBILE HOMES THAT ARE IN THE AREA.

>> YES, YES, I'M AWARE. >> JUST NOT ANY ON BROACH STREET. THERE IS SOME IN THE AREA.

>> NO, I'M FOCUSED ON THE APPEARANCE AND LOOK AND EFFORTS ALONG BROACH STREET THAT ARE IMPRESSIVE NEW CONSTRUCTION, REALLY SETTING A CHARACTER TO THAT STREET. I GUESS, IS YOUR PROPERTY THE ONE THAT HAS THE HIGH WHITE FENCE AROUND IT?

>> YES IT'S OUR PROPERTY AND HOUSE SO I WOULD ASSUME MY VANTAGE -- THE MOBILE HOMES THEY ARE BUILDING ARE VERY NICE NOW AND IT WOULD BE IN A LOT, I REALLY THINK IT WOULD BRING BEAUTY TO THE PROPERTY CONSIDERING HOW YOU SIT ON THERE, BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS LIKE, YOU WON'T HAVE TO BE JAMMED IN ONE SPOT. ITS WAY MUCH ROOM, JUST THE BEAUTY OF THE AREA, THE MOBILE HOMES WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IS, TO ME, TRYING TO GET A MOBILE HOME, IS THE PRICING AND THEY'RE ABOUT MUCH NICER THAN THE HOMES ACROSS THE STREET WHERE I EXPERIENCED

WITH GOING OUT LOOKING. >> OKAY. THOSE WERE MY

QUESTIONS. >> SURE. MR. LABANOWSKI?

>> YES, I'VE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS. ST. JOHN'S STREET, THOSE TREES THAT RUN ALONG THAT, ARE THEY GOING TO REMAIN?

>> I DON'T -- I DON'T WANT IT TO REMAIN. REALLY, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF MY GOALS IS TO TAKE THEM DOWN. EVERYONE TELLING ME, LIKE TREES, TOO MANY TREES GETTING CUT DOWN BUT NO, I'M WITH YOU ON THAT. THAT WOULD BE ONE OF MY FIRST GOALS, TO HAVE THOSE DOWN FOR THE MOBILE HOME EVEN BEING THERE.

>> THAT SIX FOOT FENCE ON BROACH STREET, THAT'S GOING TO BE

REMOVED? >> YES. SO WHAT I EXPLAINED TO EVERYONE, WE ACTUALLY PAID A COMPANY TO COME OUT AND DO THE FENCE, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE NEW TO TELL US THAT HE COULDN'T GO THAT FAR TO THE ROAD, SO I'M VERY AWARE THAT I NEED TO MOVE IT SO I'M WORKING ON THAT TO GET IT MOVED BACK SOME SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING TO DO THIS, TOO.

>> YOU SAID THIS IS JUST A TEMPORARY UNTIL YOU CAN BUILD A

HOUSE? >> YES. THE FENCING, YOU SAID

THE FENCING? >> ON THE HOUSE ITSELF, THE TRAILER. IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE A TEMPORARY?

>> NO, NO, I'M TRYING TO GET A PERMANENT, A NICE MOBILE HOME,

LIKE NICE. >> AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE IS IN THE REAR, THERE'S A BUILDING IN THE REAR THAT SETS ON BOTH PROPERTIES. IS THAT GOING TO BE TAKEN DOWN ?

>> WHAT YOU MEAN, AND BUILDING --

>> I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS BUT THERE IS A BUILDING TO

THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. >> YOU MEAN LIKE IS IT -- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STORAGE WHERE YOU PUT STUFF AT?

>> IT MIGHT BE. >> THE SWINGSET?

>> I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE BUILDING WAS FOR.

>> IT'S JUST A REGULAR -- IT'S LIKE A LITTLE REGULAR SHED SO IT'S NOTHING TO REALLY TAKE DOWN AND LIKE I SAID, IT'S TWO PROPERTIES SO THAT PROPERTY IS ATTACHED TO MY MOM'S SO THAT'S HER PROPERTY. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE HERS WOULD BE AT. SO THAT

[00:10:12]

I >> I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S TWO SEPARATE COMPONENTS THERE AND YOU GOT A BUILDING SITTING ON

THE PROPERTY. >> NO, WE FAMILY.

>> THANK YOU. >> MR. GREEN.

>> YES, I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED IT IS A NEW MOBILE

HOME, CORRECT? >> OH YES. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET A NICE MOBILE HOME.

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> HI, MY QUESTION, AND I THINK IT FELL OUT OF MY BRAIN. KNOW, YOUR MOMS HOUSE IS LOVELY. IS WELL-MAINTAINED AND IT LOOKS VERY NICE. I IMAGINE YOU'RE GOING TO DO THE SAME. BUT YOU KNOW THIS IS A MANUFACTURED HOME AND THAT IN THE DAYS THAT WE LIVE SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES YOU GOT TO GO DOWN BUT YOU'LL DO A NICE JOB.

>> THANK YOU. MAKING THIS LOOK NICE, I KNOW.

>> AND YOU'RE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING A FENCE.

>> YES MA'AM. I WISH I WOULD HAVE NEW, THE COMPANY PUT IT DOWN, THAT WE PAID LIKE A, YOU NEED TO GET OUT THE ROAD, THEY DIDN'T EVEN TELL US SO I'VE GOT TO TRY TO CONTACT THEM OR CONTACT SOMEONE AND I THINK I SPOKE WITH YOU AND LET YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS TEMPORARY ANYWAY, THE WAY -- I KIND OF EXPLAINED TO YOU THE DESIGN, THE WHOLE FENCE WILL BE DOWN, IT WON'T

EVEN BE UP THERE AT ALL. >> YOU JUST SAID THE WHOLE FRONT END. I JUST TALKED ABOUT THE TREES. TREES ARE GOOD. TREES DO A LOT OF GOOD THINGS AND THEY GIVE YOU SHADE. TREES. I JUST WANT TO PUT IT IN YOUR MIND TO SAVE SOME OF THE TREES BECAUSE THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL, BIG OLD OAK TREES.

>> IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO COME DOWN I WAS GOING TO TRY TO KEEP IT, BUT WHICHEVER WAY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A LONG PROCESS FOR ME. I'M STILL LEARNING SO I APPRECIATE.

>> JUST THINK DIFFERENT ABOUT THE TREES. THAT'S ALL I WANTED

TO SAY. THANK YOU, MA'AM. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE FOR THIS ITEM? SEE NONE, WE ARE BACK INTO THE AGENCY FOR A MOTION. MS. SPIEGEL?

>> OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SPECIAL USE PERMIT MINOR 2025-02 BYRD MOBILE HOME BASED ON EIGHT FINDINGS OF FACT AND 10 CONDITIONS IN THE STAFF REPORT.

>> SECOND. >> SINCE YOU'RE CLOSEST TO ME, I HEARD IT FIRST. WE HAVE A MOTION. SURE. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL AND A SECOND BY DR. HILSENBECK. CAN YOU PRESS YOUR BUTTON IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS? MR. LABANOWSKI.

>> JUST REAL QUICK IN REGARDS TO THE TREES AND WHAT MS. SPIEGEL SAID. TREES ARE GREAT FOR THE KIDS. AWESOME FOR THE KIDS. IT GIVES THEM PLENTY OF SHADE TO BE OUT THERE, PLAYING IN THE HEAT OF THE DAY. SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO KEEP AS MANY OF THOSE TREES

AS POSSIBLE. >> YES, I NEED TO GET THEM

TRIMMED. THEY'RE REAL UGLY. >> YEP.

>> I UNDERSTAND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?

[2. SUPMAJ 2025-18 Episcopal K-8 Private School. Request for a Special Use Permit, pursuant to Section 2.03.17 of the Land Development Code, to allow for a Private School within Open Rural (OR) zoning, specifically located at 895 Palm Valley Road.]

LET'S REGISTER TO VOTE. THAT MOTION PASSES 6-1. THANK YOU

VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. THANK

YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. ON TO ITEM NUMBER 2. IS THERE ANY EXPERT? MS. SPIEGEL?

>> OKAY . I WENT OUT TO THE SITE, INTO THE SITE VISIT, I HAD SOME CONVERSATION WITH SOME OF THE EMPLOYEES, THE STAFF AT ST.

FRANCIS. I HAD TWO PHONE CALLS WITH CASEY DENDOR, I HAD EMAIL, SUPPORT EMAILS BETWEEN THE ST. JOHN SCHOOL DISTRICT AND SUPERINTENDENT BRENDAN ASPLUND OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME OPPOSITIONAL EMAILS THAT WE JUST RECEIVED AS

WE WALKED IN TODAY. >> I HAD A VOICEMAIL FROM CASEY DENDOR EARLIER THIS WEEK AND I TEXTED HER BACK THIS MORNING WITH IT. IT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE. THERE WAS NO RESPONSE.

>> OKAY. MR. LABANOWSKI? PRESS IT AGAIN. JUST SPEAK LOUD. THERE

YOU GO. >> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO, SPEAK LOUD. I DID SEVERAL VISITS BECAUSE I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN. I SAW NOTIFICATION SIGNS OUT THERE ANYWHERE ON THE MAIN ROAD OR GOING THE ROAD LEADING INTO THE

EMAILS WE RECEIVED TODAY. >> THANK YOU. DR. HILSENBECK?

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY X PARTAKE BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO ASK MS. SPIEGEL WHAT THE SUPERINTENDENT STATED. MAYBE YOU'LL GET TO

THAT LATER. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT MS. DENDOR, GO

AHEAD. >> WHATEVER AND, FOR THE RECORD, CASEY DENDOR WITH ENGLAND-THIMS AND MILLER, OLD SAINT AUGUSTINE ROAD IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE ST.

[00:15:03]

FRANCIS IN THE FIELD CHURCH FOR A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW PRIVATE SCHOOL K-8 . THE SITE IS LOCATED OFF PALM VALLEY ROAD JUST WEST OF THE WALDEN CHASE MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT. IT IS SOUTH OF MOXIE PARKWAY AND EAST OF U.S.

HIGHWAY 1. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY HAS A FEATURED LAND-USE CLASSIFICATION OF RURAL CIVIC CULTURE WHICH ALLOWS THE CULTURAL INSTITUTIONAL USE CATEGORY . IT ALSO HAS A ZONING DESIGNATION OF OPEN RURAL, WHICH ALSO ALLOWS THAT CULTURAL INSTITUTIONAL USE CATEGORY. THE OPEN RURAL ZONING UNDER THE CULTURAL INSTITUTIONAL STATES THAT PUBLIC AND CHARTER SCHOOLS WOULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT, HOWEVER, PRIVATE SCHOOLS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THERE IS AN EXISTING CHURCH SITUATED ON THE PROPERTY. THE SITE PLAN HERE SHOWS THE ACCESS WOULD, YOU HAVE THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY FROM PALM VALLEY ROAD. THERE IS AN EXTENSIVE WETLAND THAT'S EXISTING ALONG THAT. SEE THE MAP IS SPACE ORIENTED WHERE THE NORTH IS TO THE RIGHT SO THERE IS AN EXISTING EXTENSIVE WETLAND ALONG THE WESTERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY THAT WILL REMAIN UNDISTURBED. AS YOU ENTER INTO THE SITE, THE DRIVEWAY WILL SPLIT OFF TOWARDS THE EAST, PROVIDING ACCESS TO THE SCHOOL SITE BEHIND THE EXISTING CHURCH. WE WILL CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN ALL THE WETLANDS ON THE PROPERTY. THERE ARE GOING TO BE ZERO IMPACTS TO THE WETLANDS. HERE'S AN ARCHITECTURAL RENDERING OF THE PROPOSED SCHOOL. IT DOES STAY CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING ARCHITECTURE OF THE EXISTING CHURCH. THE SITE IS OWNED BY THE ST. FRANCIS IN THE FIELD EPISCOPAL CHURCH. THERE CURRENTLY OPERATING A PRESCHOOL. THE PROPOSED OPERATIONAL HOURS OF THE K-8 SCHOOL WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE SAINT JOHN'S COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH AN 8:30 A.M. START TIME AND A 2:45 PICKUP. PARENTS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF THEIR STUDENTS AND THE DAYS OF OPERATION IS INTENDED TO FOLLOW THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT ACADEMIC CALENDAR. THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY PROPOSED FOR THE SCHOOL IS A TOTAL OF 850 STUDENTS, WHICH WOULD BE SUPPORTED BY 75 FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES AND 15 PART-TIME STAFF MEMBERS. THE SITE AS YOU SAW, ALSO INCLUDES ATHLETIC FIELDS, TRACK, AND OTHER OUTDOOR AREAS FOR STUDENTS TO PARTICIPATE IN COMPETITIVE SPORTS AFTER SCHOOL, SUCH AS OTHER EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES. THE SITE IN TOTAL IS 46 ACRES. THE SCHOOL PROPOSED IS APPROXIMATELY 78,000 SQUARE FEET. NO WETLAND IMPACTS, DIRECT ACCESS TO PALM VALLEY ROAD, WHICH IS A MAJOR COLLECTOR ROADWAY MEETING THE CRITERIA OF HOLDING AND DEVELOPMENT CODE. WE WILL ALSO RESERVE 25 FEET OF RIGHT-OF-WAY RESERVATION ALONG ALL VALLEY ROAD AS REQUESTED BY STAFF FOR ANY FUTURE MODIFICATIONS TO THAT ROADWAY. THE SITE PROVIDES ADEQUATE ON-SITE THE NUCLEAR STACKING OF APPROXIMATELY A HALF A MILE, AS YOU STACK THAT THERE'S TWO LANES GOING IN FOR THE STUDENT DROP-OFF AND ONE LANE EXITING. THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS WILL CONTINUE TO BE BOTHERED BY THE WETLANDS AND IT WILL EXCEED THE MINIMUM IN COMPLEMENTARY BUFFER REQUIREMENT FOR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE . THIS IMAGE IS ZOOMED IN AND IT KIND OF SHOWS YOU THE DISTANCE MEASUREMENTS BETWEEN ANY OF THE IMPROVEMENTS ON SITE FROM THE ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL TO THE WEST. SO BACK TO THE AREA WHERE YOU HAVE THE SCHOOL AND THE FIELD. YOU HAVE ANYWHERE FROM 382 FEET TO 441 FEET IN SEPARATION. ALL OF THE WETLANDS ON THE WALDEN CHASE PROPERTY ARE UNDER CONSERVATION EASEMENT AND AS MENTIONED, WE ARE NOT GOING TO IMPACT ANY OF THE WETLANDS ON THE PROPERTY. AND THE AREA TOWARDS THE ENTRANCE OF THE PROPERTY, YOU HAVE ANYWHERE FROM 157 TO 174 FEET OF SEPARATION. ALL OF THOSE TREES WILL REMAIN INTACT. WE WILL BE ADDING A SIDEWALK, HOWEVER, WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS BEING ADDED ALONG THE ACCESS ROAD, THERE IS NO TREES INAUDIBLE ]. HERE, HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN, IS A 20 FOOT WIDTH, WHICH IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED BUFFER PER THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIRES 20 FEET OF BUFFER WIDTH BETWEEN A SCHOOL OR CHURCH PROPERTY AND ANY RESIDENTIAL USES. SO WE ARE GREATLY EXCEEDING THAT STANDARD.

VEHICULAR ACCESS. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVIDE AUXILIARY RIGHT AND LEFT TURN LANE IMPROVEMENTS. THERE IS ADEQUATE SPACE WITHIN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY TO ACCOMMODATE THAT, AND WE'RE GOING TO MINIMIZE IMPACTS TO PALM VALLEY ROAD DURING SCHOOL PICKUP AND DROP-OFF HOURS AS A RESULT OF THE HALF-MILE STACKING ON PROPERTY. WE DID RECEIVE AT LEAST 12 LETTERS IN SUPPORT FOR THIS APPLICATION. I BELIEVE THOSE WERE ALL DIRECT DID TO YOU AGENCY MEMBERS. STAFF RECEIVED A LETTER WITH A LIST OF PEOPLE

[00:20:05]

THAT WERE IN SUPPORT. AT THE TIME THAT I DRAFTED THIS POWERPOINT VISITATION, WE HAD ONE LETTER IN OPPOSITION. WE RECEIVED TWO MORE AS WE WERE COMING IN THE DOOR TODAY AND ONE GENERAL INQUIRY. I DID REACH OUT TO THE PEOPLE IN OPPOSITION AND THE GENERAL INQUIRY THAT I RECEIVED YESTERDAY. I OFFERED MY TIME FOR A PHONE CALL. THEY RESPECTFULLY REJECTED THAT AND MODIFIED THEIR PREVIOUS OPPOSITION LETTER. IN RELATION TO THAT LETTER, OUR SITE IS IDENTIFIED IN GREEN. THE WALDEN CHASE MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT IS IDENTIFIED IN BLUE, DARK BLUE.

THE ROCK CHURCH IS IN A LIKE BLUE COLOR AND THE PERSON THAT REACHED OUT IN OPPOSITION IS HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

>> I'M SURE WE WILL HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. MS. SPIEGEL?

>> HI, WELL ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING MEMBER WHO REPRESENTS THE SCHOOL BOARD, AND SO THIS WAS A PARTICULAR INTEREST TO THE SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS. THERE IS A K5 SCHOOL VERY CLOSE BY THAT EVIDENTLY IS NOT AT CAPACITY. I THINK SOME OF THE CONCERNS REALLY WERE -- IF THERE WASN'T GOING TO BE A SCHOOL, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING, BUT IF THERE IS GOING TO BE A SCHOOL, JUST THE LOGISTICS OF IT SO THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH SUPERINTENDENT ASPLUND LAST NIGHT, THAT IT WOULD REALLY BE A VERY BENEFICIAL THING. HE THOUGHT THERE COULD BE SOME GOOD COMMUNICATION GOING FORWARD SO THAT YOU GUYS COULD DOVETAIL. HE WASN'T SURE ABOUT THE START TIMES BEING EXACTLY SAME AS THE OTHER SCHOOLS AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ACTUALLY THE SAME.

IT'S THE RIVERTOWN ACADEMY OR WHATEVER. GO BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY ARE WONDERING IF THAT WOULD BE OPEN DIALOGUE AND I DO HAVE HIS CONTACT INFORMATION TO SHARE WITH YOU OUTSIDE OF THIS HEARING. SO THAT WAS PART OF THEIR CONCERNS. LET ME LOOK AT -- THEY WERE WONDERING IF PARENTS WOULD BE TRANSPORTING ALL STUDENTS. NO SCHOOL BUSES. IS THAT CORRECT? THANK YOU. THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT THEY SAID IN THE ROAD DOES LOOK LIKE IT COULD HANDLE THAT TRAFFIC, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE STACKING. I WISH ALL THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAD THAT, TOO, BECAUSE IT CAN BE A REAL CHALLENGE IN THESE SCHOOLS WHENEVER BUT HE IS TRYING TO DROP THEIR KIDS OFF AT THE SAME TIME. I DID LOOK AT THE SITE. I LIKED IT. I WALKED AROUND AS MUCH AS I COULD AND WITHOUT HAVING A TOUR GUIDE, I WASN'T EXACTLY SURE WHAT I WAS LOOKING AT I DID ROAM AROUND AND LOOK AT IT. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL SITE. IT'S A REALLY BEAUTIFUL SITE AND IT'S A WONDERFUL CHURCH. AND I THINK THAT I DEAL WITH THE TRAFFIC MITIGATION IS VERY HELPFUL. LET'S SEE . I THINK THAT WAS REALLY MOSTLY JUST LOGISTICAL QUESTIONS FROM THE SCHOOL, JUST SO THAT Y'ALL COULD WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE REALLY THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS EDUCATING THE STUDENTS AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S GOAL AS WELL.

>> YES. I SPOKE WITH THE SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION TEAM THAT WOULD BE PARTNERING WITH THE CHURCH AND THEY ARE HAPPY TO HAVE AN OPEN

DIALOGUE. >> THAT'S REALLY ALL IT'S ALL ABOUT, COMMUNICATION. CAN'T HAVE COMMUNITY WITHOUT COMMUNICATION. SO NOW OFF OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND JUST ONTO THE REGULAR PLAN, CAN YOU GO BACK ON YOUR COUPLE OF SLIDES, SEE, RIGHT THERE. WE ARE TALKING A LOT ABOUT THE WESTERN EDGE. AM

I CORRECT? IS THAT WEST? >> YES, SO A NUMBER OF THE OPPOSITION EMAILS I RECEIVED WERE PEOPLE THAT LIVED IN WALDEN CHASE, WHICH IS WHY I FOCUSED ON THAT.

>> AND THEN THE EASTERN EDGE IS MOSTLY OPEN RURAL LARGE LOTS WITH LARGE HOMES, RIGHT? SO THERE ARE SEVERAL HOMES OVER ON THE EASTERN SIDE BUT THEY'RE NOT ABUTTING YOUR PROPERTY LINE,

IS THAT CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. WE DO HAVE A RANGE OF 70 FEET TO 118 FEET OF TREE LINE BETWEEN THE DRIVE FILE AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTY LINE. ALSO, CONTACT, THIS AREA APPEAR, THIS ROAD WAS PREVIOUSLY PERMITTED THROUGH THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT BECAUSE THEY WERE INTENDING TO EXPAND THE PARKING AREA. SO WE ARE NOT EXCEEDING THE FOOTPRINTS THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY PERMITTED. WE ARE JUST KIND OF FOLLOWING THAT

LINE. >> THERE IS A LOT OF TREES AND IT'S A BIG, HEAVY BUFFER BACK THERE. AS FAR AS THE SPORTS FIELD, I DON'T SEE REALLY ANY RESIDENCES THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED EITHER BY LIGHT. THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT NOISE BUT THERE'S ALSO VERY HEAVY TREES STAND AND TRAFFIC. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU KIND OF ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES , AT LEAST IN MY OPINION.

I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT THE SMARTEST PERSON IN THE SHED BUT

[00:25:02]

I GUESS THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU SO

MUCH MS. DENDOR. >> THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. MATOVINA?

>> SO THE TRAFFIC CIRCULATION TO GET TO THE SITE, PALM VALLEY CONNECTS TO NOCATEE PARKWAY TWO DIFFERENT WAYS, AS I SEE IT FROM THIS MAP. THE LINES ARE REALLY SMALL FOR AN OLD GUY LIKE ME TO SEE, YOU NEED A MAGNIFYING GLASS. BUT AS I SEE IT, THE TRAFFIC DOESN'T HAVE TO COME TO THE SITE AND TURN AROUND AND GO BACK OUT THE SAME WAY. IT CAN GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. IS THAT

CORRECT? >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WOULD BE THREE DIFFERENT ROUTES THAT THEY COULD TAKE.

THEY COULD COME DIRECTLY FROM TO 10. THEY COULD COME FROM NOCATEE PARKWAY IN THIS GENERAL AREA OR THEY COULD GO UP THROUGH NOCATEE VILLAGE AND GET UP THAT WAY, SO THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN NOCATEE

VILLAGE COULD COME BACK DOWN. >> AND SO I KNOW WHAT MS. SPIEGEL SAID ABOUT THE NOISE. I HAPPEN TO LIVE PROBABLY AS THE CROW FLIES, EIGHT MILES FROM ORCHARD TRAIL HIGH SCHOOL AND QUITE FRIENDLY ON FRIDAY NIGHTS, IF I WERE TO SIT ON MY BACK PORCH I CAN HEAR THEM ANNOUNCING THE FOOT HOLDING, WHICH IS AMAZING TO ME BECAUSE THAT'S A PRETTY LONG WAY TO GO AND THERE'S A LOT OF TREES IN BETWEEN. IS THERE ANY CHANCE YOU ALL COULD CONSIDER RESTRICTIONS ON THE HOURS THAT THE FIELDS ARE USED? BEING THAT IT'S K TO EIGHT POINT

>> BEING THAT IT'S K TO EIGHT, WE ARE NOT ANTICIPATING ANY EVENING SPORTS. MOST OF THEM WILL TAKE PLACE DIRECTLY AFTER THE SCHOOL DAY BUT WE WOULD CERTAINLY BE WILLING TO CONSIDER MEETING, NUMBER ONE, MEETING THE NOISE ORDINANCE OF THE COUNTY BUT ALSO ADDRESSING IN OTHER WAYS.

>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. OKAY. AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IT SAYS IN THE REPORT ON PAGE -- IT'S ON PAGE SIX, IT SAYS PER LDC 2.03 01 POINT SEE, A DETAILED SITE AND DRAWN TO SCALE SHALL SHOW THE LOCATION AND DIMENSIONS OF ALL EXISTING AND PROPOSED STRUCTURES AND OTHER IMPROVEMENTS AND SET BACKS AND SAME, SIGNS AND PROVISIONS FOR ALL OFFSTREET PARKING IS REQUIRED. A PLAN SHALL BECOME A CONDITION UPON WHICH THE PERMIT IS PERMITTED AND ANY CHANGE OR ADDITION SHALL CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF THE SPECIAL USE APPROVAL UNLESS SUCH CHANGE IS SUBMITTED TO AND IMPROVED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENCY. SO ARE WE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A SITE PLAN THAT WE APPROVE TODAY WITH DIMENSIONS ON IT OR IS THAT ONLY IF THEY CHANGE IT ? THAT PERMIT LEVEL IS MY QUESTION.

>> YES SIR, AND THROUGH THE CHAIR, TO MR. MATOVINA'S QUESTION, JACOB SMITH, THE SITE PLAN SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT WOULD TYPICALLY SIMPLY BECOME PART OF THIS SPECIAL USE. THE ABSOLUTE SPECIFICS OF EVERY DETAIL AND MEASUREMENT GENERALLY ARE HANDLED LATER IN THE CONSTRUCTION PLAN PROCESS. IF THERE WERE ANY MAJOR DEVIATIONS TO WHAT THEY HAVE SUBMITTED TO THIS NOW, IN FACT LIKELY YES THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK CA

FOR ANY BIG CHANGES. >> THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I HAD.

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> I REMEMBERED A WHOLE HUGE CHUNK OF QUESTION I WAS SUPPOSED TO ASK. I APOLOGIZE.'S ON THE PHASING, YOU'RE INTENDING TO START WITH THE WHOLE 850 STUDENTS OR IS THAT THE NUMBER THAT THEY'RE PLANNING TO GET UP TO OVER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS? CAN YOU KIND OF GIVE ME AN IDEA OF WHAT THEY'RE ANTICIPATING, HOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT SETTING THIS UP, AND THIS AND THE YEAR THEY'RE

PLANNING ON OPENING? >> ABSOLUTELY. 850 WILL BE THE MAXIMUM STUDENT OCCUPANCY OVER ANY GIVEN CURRENT YEAR, CALENDAR YEAR. OR EXCUSE ME, ACADEMIC YEAR, NOT CALENDAR YEAR . THE PLANNED NUMBER OF STUDENTS, I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT NUMBER FOR THE YEAR THAT IT OPENED, HOWEVER, THEY DO NOT ANTICIPATE HAVING ANY FIFTH OR EIGHTH GRADERS AT THE SCHOOL THE FIRST YEAR SO THEY WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY UNDER CAPACITY.

AND SPEAKING WITH THE SCHOOL, THEY DO ANTICIPATE APPROXIMATELY 50% OF THE TOTAL MAXIMUM NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN THE FIRST YEAR.

THEY DO PLAN TO OPEN FOR THE 2027 TO 2028 SCHOOL YEAR.

>> AND THEN SO THE K THROUGH 4 THEN WOULD MATRICULATE UP AND THAT'S HOW THE MIDDLE SCHOOL WOULD GET OPEN, THOSE CHILDREN, AS THEY'RE MOVING THROUGH THE SCHOOL, THROUGH THE PROCESS.

>> WE WOULD START WITH K THROUGH 4 MOST LIKELY AND SIXTH AND

[00:30:01]

SEVENTH GRADE. >> AND SIXTH AND SEVENTH. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS IN THEIR.

>> YES, HOWEVER, BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE SCHOOL, STUDENTS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT APPLICATIONS AND IT WILL BE AN ADMISSIONS

PROCESS. >> OKAY.

>> SO THEY WILL HAVE CONTROL OVER THE TOTAL NUMBER OF

STUDENTS. >> THANK YOU.

>> MY PLEASURE. >> MR. LABANOWSKI?

>> JUST A COUPLE QUICK THINGS. THE MAIL THAT YOU HAVE HERE IS SHOWING A SIDEWALK FROM PALM VALLEY ROAD ALL THE WAY TO THE

SCHOOL? >> YES OR.

>> I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT -- NOW THERE IS AN EXISTING PAVILION IN THE BACK RIGHT NOW IT'S BEING USED CURRENTLY FOR

DAY AND NIGHT ACTIVITIES. >> THAT IS AN EXISTING PAVILION THAT IS UTILIZED BY THE CHURCH. THE DO CONDUCT SOME WEDDINGS THERE AND THE USE OF THAT PAVILION WILL NOT BE BY THE SCHOOL. THE CHURCH WILL CONTINUE TO OPERATE THAT.

>> THE ONLY REASON I WAS ASKING, BECAUSE OF THE NOISE AND SO FORTH, THAT THAT HAS BEEN GENERATING AND I JUST WONDER IF THERE WAS ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT NOISE BEING GENERATED OUT OF THE PAVILION BY THE NEIGHBORS BEHIND.

>> I DID CHECK THE PARCEL NUMBER THROUGH THE PRIDE SYSTEM AND I DIDN'T SEE WHERE ANYTHING RECENTLY HAVE BEEN OPENED. I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF HAS ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT.

>> THE ONLY CONCERN I HAD WAS THE LIGHTING ON THE FIELD AS WELL AS THE SOUND ON THE FIELD BECAUSE MR. MATOVINA, I LIVE PROBABLY SEVERAL THOUSAND FEET AWAY FROM A PARK RIGHT NOW AND YOU GOT A NICE, BRIGHT GLOW FROM THE FIELD AS WELL AS THE NOISE AT NIGHT AND PEOPLE CHEERING. SO THAT WAS MY CONCERNS AS WELL,

FOR THE NEIGHBORS IN THE AREA. >> WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH STAFF THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF THE LIGHTING. I KNOW THE LIGHTING WILL BE DIRECTIONAL AND AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, BECAUSE IT'S ELEMENTARY AND MIDDLE SCHOOL, WE DON'T ANTICIPATE ANY SIGNIFICANT EVENING OUR ACTIVITY.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> MR. GREEN?

>> QUICK QUESTION. IS THERE ANY OTHER OUTDOOR RECREATION FOR THE CHILDREN OUTSIDE OF THE PROPOSED FIELD? I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON

HERE POINT >> IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, THERE MAY BE PE CLASSES THAT GO OUTSIDE DURING THE SCHOOL DAY. BUT THEY WOULD BE FOCUSED TO THE RECREATION

PORTIONS OF THE SCHOOL SITE. >>

>> TWO PLAYGROUNDS THAT WILL BE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING AND A

JIM THAT WILL BE ENCLOSED. >> OKAY. I FIGURED THERE WAS GOING TO BE SOME OUTSIDE. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA OF THE SIZE OF THE FIELD? WHAT'STHE REGULATION SIZE? AM I LOOKING AT A FOOT FIELD? AM I LOOKING AT THIS --

>> IT IS A SOCCER FIELD . >> SOCCER FIELD.

>> DO YOU NEED ME TO REPEAT THAT?

>> YES, PLEASE. >> IT WILL BE A REGULATION SOCCER FIELD AND A REGULATION TRACK.

>> SO WHERE WOULD THE GYM BE LOCATED?

>> IN THE ENCLOSED BUILDING. SO WE HAVE THE 78,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING HERE. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHICH PORTION THE GYM WILL BE BUT I BELIEVE IT'S IN THIS PORTION.

>> SO IT WILL BE ATTACHED TO THE SCHOOL?

>> YES OR. >> OKAY. I JUST FIGURED THERE WAS GOING TO BE SOME OUTDOOR RECREATION SOMEWHERE.

>> YOU GOT IT. >> THAT'S ALL.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE HERE TO SPEAK ON

ITEM NUMBER 2? >> HELLO. I HAVE A PREPARED STATEMENT. MY NAME IS JEFF PIERCE. I LIVE AT 812 DERBY LANE IN WELDON CHASE, DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE PROJECT SITE.

I'M HERE TODAY ON BEHALF OF MYSELF, MY WIFE ANA MARIA AND SEVERAL OF OUR NEIGHBORS WHO ARE UNABLE TO ATTEND BUT WHO HAVE SIGNED THE SUPPORTIVE SIGNATURES FORM CONFIRMING THEY SHARED OUR OBJECTIONS. I'M SUBMITTING THAT FORM FOR RECORD. WE RESPECTABLY ASK THE AGENCY TO DENY THE PROPOSED K-8 SCHOOL AT 895 PALM VALLEY ROAD BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, THE APPLICANT'S MATERIAL DEMISES, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THE MAP, THE -- IT MINIMIZES THE PROXIMITY OF DERBY LANE HOMES , IS NOT CLEARLY OR ACCURATELY CONVEYED. IN DERBY LANE IS MISSING OR SIMPLY UNDERREPRESENTED, THE EFFECT IS THE SAME. IT MINIMIZES HOW CLOSE OUR HOMES TRULY ARE TO THE PROJECT. THE CLOSEST HOMES, INCLUDING MINE, BACKTRACKING ONTO A 20 FOOT BUFFER AND 10 FOOT SETBACK ALONG THE WETLANDS1 THIS CREATES THE IMPRESSION THAT THE SCHOOL IS POSITIONED FURTHER FROM NEARBY RESIDENTS THAN IT ACTUALLY IS . WHEN IN REALITY IT WOULD SIT IMMEDIATELY BEHIND FAMILY HOMES, SEPARATED ONLY BY A THIN AND INSUFFICIENT NATURAL BARRIER. NUMBER TWO, SIGNIFICANT NOISE AND DAILY ACTIVITY IMPACTS. THE SITE PLAN PLACES MAJOR ACTIVITY AREAS INCLUDING ATHLETIC FIELD AND OUTDOOR PLAY AREAS DIRECTLY BEHIND OUR

[00:35:02]

NEIGHBORHOOD. THESE AREAS WILL GENERATE CONTINUOUS HIGH-VOLUME NOISE THROUGHOUT THE DAY. RECESS, PE WHISTLES, SHELVING, SPORTS PRACTICES AND WEEKEND EVENTS. BECAUSE WETLANDS KERRY NATURALLY CARRY AND AMPLIFY SOUND, THE NOISE WILL TRAVEL DIRECTLY INTO OUR HOMES AND YARDS. A 20 FOOT NATURAL BUFFER IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH TO SHIELD NEARBY RESIDENTS FROM THIS INTENSE YET DAILY OPERATIONS. NUMBER THREE, MISSING REQUIRED STUDIES. KEY ANALYSES NORMALLY EXPECTED FOR A PROJECT OF THIS SCALE ARE ABSENT. THERE'S NO TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS, NO CUEING PLAN, NO NOISE STUDY, NO STORMWATER OR DRAINAGE PLAN, AND NO ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW, NO OPERATIONAL DETAILS. WITHOUT THESE STUDIES, NEITHER THE COUNTY NOR THE PUBLIC CAN ACCURATELY ASSESS THE SAFETY, ENVIRONMENTAL OR COMPATIBILITY IMPACT OF THIS PROJECT. NUMBER 4, TRAFFIC AND SAFETY RISK ON PALM VALLEY ROAD. PALM VALLEY ROAD ALREADY EXPERIENCES SPEEDING, CONGESTION, AND HAZARDOUS TURNING MOVEMENTS, ESPECIALLY AT PEAK TIMES. K-8 SCHOOL WOULD INTRODUCE HUNDREDS OF ADDITIONAL VEHICLE TRIPS AT THE ZACK BOWERS WHAT IS MOST DANGEROUS. THE APPLICATION PROVIDES NO MITIGATION, NO IMPROVEMENTS, AND NO SOLUTION AND WITHOUT A TRAFFIC STUDY, THE FULL IMPACT ON DRIVERS, PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS REMAIN UNKNOWN. AND FINALLY, THE INCOMPATIBILITY WITH SURROUNDING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS PROJECT REPRESENTS A MAJOR INTENSIFICATION OF USE THAT WOULD SIMPLY -- THAT IS SIMPLY NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ADJACENT SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES. A FULL-TIME SCHOOL WITH HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS, EXPANDED PARKING, DAILY OUTDOOR ACTIVITY AND PEAK HOUR TRAFFIC IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT FROM INTERMITTENT CHURCH USE. THE PLACES -- IT PLACES A SUBSTANTIAL AND ONGOING BURDEN ON THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE CLOSEST TO THE SITE, AFFECTING -- THANK YOU -- IT'S JUST FOR THE EXCESSIVE USE BURDEN THAT IS DESIGNED TO PROTECT OUR NEIGHBORHOODS FROM . FOR ALL THESE REASONS WE ASK YOU TO DENY THE REQUEST. THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE?

>> HELLO, HOW IS EVERYBODY TODAY? MY NAME IS MICHAEL THORN.

WE LIVE CLOSE TO THE SCHOOL ON THE EAST SIDE. PRETTY MUCH WHAT HE SAID. WE DO LOVE THE IDEA OF THE SCHOOL BEING BUILT THERE, HOWEVER, PALM VALLEY ROAD, OUR CHIEF CONCERN IS THAT THE AREA IS ONLY A TWO LANE ROAD WITH NO SAFE ACCESS FOR PEDESTRIANS. OUR CHIEF CONCERN IS THAT WE HAVE GOLF CARTS COMING IN FROM NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITIES. IS GOING TO GET VERY CONGESTED AND RIGHT NOW IT'S ALREADY UNSAFE WITH ALL THE BICYCLISTS, GOLF CARTS TRYING TO GO BETWEEN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AS IS. AND WE'RE WONDERING IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A PLAN FOR A SIDEWALK TO CONNECT NOCATEE WEST TO NOCATEE EAST AND WALDEN CHASE. AND THAT IS ALSO THE CASE, WHAT ABOUT THE HIGH-POWERED ELECTRICAL LINES OVER THE SIDEWALK? WILL THEY BE BURIED?

>> I'LL ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO ANSWER.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT. MS.

DENDOR? >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING UP AND SPEAKING AT THE HEARING. SO I DID ADDRESS THE SEPARATION FROM THE HOMES WITH THE WETLAND. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS PALM VALLEY ROAD. THE COUNTY IS WORKING ON A SIDEWALK GAP PROGRAM WHERE WE WILL BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE A SIDEWALK ALONG OUR FRONTAGE, AND IN THE FUTURE, THE COUNTY MAY COME IN WITH ADDITIONAL FUNDS IN THE FUTURE TO ADD ADDITIONAL SIDEWALKS FOR PEDESTRIAN CIRCULATION ALONG THAT ROADWAY. ST. JOHNS COUNTY DOES NOT ALLOW LOW-SPEED VEHICLES OR GOLF CARTS ON THAT ROAD SO THERE WILL NOT BE A CONCERN THERE. PALM VALLEY ROAD ALSO CURRENTLY OPERATES AT 58% AND WITH THEIR COMMITTED TRAFFIC AROUND 75%, I BELIEVE THE EXACT PERCENTAGES WERE ON THE STAFF REPORT. THIS APPLICATION IS NOT GOING TO ALTER -- ALTERNATIVELY IMPACT ANY OF

LANES AS I DISCUSSED. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR.

MATOVINA? >> IN A MOTION, IF WE WERE TO, AS YOU SAY, WE COULD SAY IT WILL COMPLY WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE AND RESTRICT HOURS OF OPERATION OF BALL FIELDS FOR OUTDOOR PLAY,

WHAT WOULD THAT TIMEFRAME BE? >> I'M GOING TO LET THE APPLICANT, THE SCHOOL'S REPRESENTATIVE COME UP.

>> AND YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD?

>> TAYLOR SMITH, 44 55 FLORIDA, IT'S A K DASH EIGHT SCHOOL. WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IT, ONE OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS, AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO

[00:40:03]

HAVE ANY FOOTBALL AT NIGHT. I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAY, IF YOU WANTED US TO, BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LIKE SOCCER SOMETIMES GOES 9:00, 9:30. MIDDLE SCHOOL SOCCER.

OUTDOOR. WE ARE TALKING OUTDOOR. TRACK RARELY GOES AFTER DUSK. SO WE COULD RESTRICT EVENING, LIKE NO FOOT TALL AFTER DARK, AND I THINK YOU NOISE ORDINANCE IS 10:30 CURRENTLY, 11:00. YEAH. WE WOULD NEVER BE BEYOND 10:00 AT NIGHT. I DON'T KNOW, GREG, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC TIME OR JUST COMMITMENT NOT TO HAVE THE GREATEST NOISE GENERATOR THAT WE'RE AWARE OF, IS WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE WELL AT NIGHT. WE MAY HAVE FLAG FOOTBALL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL BUT IT WILL BE DAYTIME.

>> YEAH, I UNDERSTAND SOCCER ISN'T NEARLY AS NOISY AS FOOTBALL. IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF YELLING BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME.

SO 9:00 P.M. IS TOO EARLY, I THINK I HEAR YOU SAY.

>> WE NEED TO CONFER WITH OUR COACHES BUT BEFORE WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE BASKETBALL GYM ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THEY SAID 10:00 WAS THE ABSOLUTE LATEST THEY WOULD EVER BE IN THE GYM.

SO THAT'S WHERE I GOT THE 10:00 FROM, ASSUMING IT'S THE SAME

WITH ANY MIDDLE SCHOOL SPORT. >> AND IF I SAID 7:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING, THAT WOULD BE OKAY.

>> YES. >> SO 7:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M.

>> ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT, SIR?

>> YEAH. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU. >> WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A

MOTION? >> I WILL MAKE A MOTION. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SUPMAJ 2025-18 EPISCOPAL K-8 PRIVATE SCHOOL BASED ON EIGHT FINDINGS OF FACT AND EIGHT CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT. I'M GOING TO ADD A NINTH CONDITION THAT WOULD LIMIT OUT OF THE PLAY FACILITIES

FROM 7:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M. >> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING. I LIVE IN THIS AREA AND I HAVE ATTENDED THIS CHURCH QUITE A FEW TIMES. I'M NOT A MEMBER BUT I KNOW THE PROPERTY REALLY WELL. I DO THINK WOULD NOT BE INCOMPATIBLE. I THINK IT'S COMPATIBLE IN THE AREA. I DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT TAKING A GOLF CART OR BIKING AND GOLF CARTS ON THAT ROAD. I DRIVE THAT FREQUENTLY. I WOULD NEVER DRIVE MY GOLF CART ON THERE. I KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE PROBABLY DO. BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN IT NOR WOULD I EVER DO IT. BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PRIVATE, K-3 OPTIONS IN THIS AREA AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT FIT TO HAVE.

THAT'S ALL I WOULD LIKE TO SAY. MR. MATOVINA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO

ADD SOMETHING? >> I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH FOR DEVELOPING THE SCHOOL. I THINK IT WILL BE A FANTASTIC ADDITION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND A GREAT OPTION FOR PEOPLE IN THE AREA. WE HAVE GREAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY BUT HAVING OPTIONS I THINK IS ALWAYS GOOD SO THANK YOU FOR COMING FORWARD.

>> MS. SPIEGEL >> YES. AS YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS ON IT IS A NICE OPTION FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE IN THE AREA. IS A BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY AND I THINK IT'S A VERY NICE PLAN. I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE NEIGHBORS AS MUCH AS MAYBE THEY FEAR IT MIGHT. THERE IS A REALLY GOOD SEPARATION AND IT'S VERY THOUGHTFULLY DESIGNED, I THINK CONSIDERING THE NEIGHBORS ARE TRYING TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. ANY COMMUNICATION I THINK THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR, IT SEEMS LIKE MS. DENDOR HAS BEEN VERY WILLING TO REACH OUT AND TALK .

>> MR. GREEN? >> JUST REAL QUICK, I MEAN YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THE BLEACHERS. IT'S NOT HIGH SCHOOL TYPE OF FOOTBALL BY ANY MEANS SO I UNDERSTAND THE NEIGHBORS CONCERNS. I DON'T BLAME THEM FOR WORRYING ABOUT IT BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? LET'S REGISTER TO VOTE.

>> ALL RIGHT. THAT MOTION PASSES 7-0. THANK YOU MS. DENDOR. ON TO

[3. ZVAR 2025-01Letts Fence. Request for a Zoning Variance to Section 2.02.04.B.12 of the Land Development Code to allow for a fence height of eight (8) feet in lieu of the six (6) foot on sides and rear along with six (6) feet in lieu of four (4) foot requirement along the front in Residential, Manufactured/Mobile Home or Single Family [RMH(S)] zoning, specifically located at 6381 A1A South.]

ITEM NUMBER 3. IS THERE ANY EX PARTE? MR. LABANOWSKI.

>> YES. I VISITED THE SITE AND ALSO TALKED TO THE APPLICANT.

>> MS. SPIEGEL. >> YES MADAM CHAIR. I DID A SITE VISIT ALSO AND I SPOKE WITH MR. LETTS, THE OWNER. HE KIND OF SHOWED ME AROUND WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO.

>> SITE VISIT ON THE 17TH. >> DR. HILSENBECK?

>> I DID A SITE VISIT YESTERDAY.

>> AND MR. GREEN? >> YES, I'VE ALSO DONE A SITE

[00:45:04]

VISIT. >> ALL RIGHT. WOULD MR. LETTS

COME FORWARD? >> GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD AFTERNOON, MY NAME IS BRIAN LETTS. I LIVE AT THE PROPERTY 6381 A1 A SOUTH IN SAINT AUGUSTINE AND THAT'S IN THE CRESCENT BEACH AREA. AND I'LL BE GIVING MY PRESENTATION ON THE ZONING REQUEST. SO ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS TO GO THROUGH YOUR REQUEST AND THEN DETAILS OF THE REQUEST AND OVERALL SITE PLAN.

AND THEN A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THIS PROJECT THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR SEVERAL YEARS. AND THEN THE HARDSHIPS FOR EACH FOUR SIDES OF THE PROPERTY. AND THEN JUST SOME EXAMPLES OF FENCES AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD. SO HERE'S THE VARIOUS REQUESTS SPECIFICALLY THAT WENT OUT AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE THERE IS OF COURSE OUR ADDRESS AT 6381 A1 A, WHICH IS OF COURSE ON A1 A, THE HIGHWAY. SO THE DETAILS HERE IN THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE, WE ARE REQUESTING A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE FACING A1A AND THAT WOULD BE IN LIEU OF A FOUR FOOT FENCE. THE NORTH SIDE , WHICH IS ADJACENT TO THE FOOT PRIVACY FENCE FROM THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY, ALL THE WAY UP TO 25 FEET OR THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY AND THEN A SIX FOOT FENCE TO THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH THAT WOULD BE IN LIEU OF A 6'4". AND THEN THE SOUTH SIDE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS ON THE SIDE OF THE AIRBNB PROPERTY, THAT IS A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE ON THE ENTIRE LANE, INCLUDING THE 25 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. NOW THE SIX FEET FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE TO THAT 25 FOOT SECTION IS NORMAL, STANDARD HEIGHT, WHICH IS NOT -- WE ARE NOT REQUESTING CHANGES BUT FROM 25 FEET TO THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS FOUR FOOT AND WE ARE ASKING FOR SIX FEET. AND THEN THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS -- WE ARE REQUESTING AN EIGHT FOOT PRIVACY FENCE FOR THE ENTIRE LANE IN LIEU OF SIX-FOOT. AND SO HERE'S THE OVERALL SITE PLAN AND I'M TRYING TO MOVE OVER HERE A LITTLE BIT BUT SHE TOLD ME A LITTLE TRICKIER. SO I KNOW THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE BUT FROM THE 25 FOOT LINE ALL THE WAY ACROSS TO HERE, THAT IS WHERE WE ARE SAYING SIX FEET AND THEN FROM THE BACK FRONT LINE TO THE 25 FOOT PORT RIGHT HERE, THAT'S EIGHT FEET AND THEN THIS IS YOUR STANDARD SIX FEET. AND THEN I'LL GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALLY AND BLOW THEM UP SO YOU GET A BETTER PICTURE OF THEM, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S UNFORTUNATELY NOT A REAL GREAT PICTURE. OKAY. SO LOOK, JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THIS PROPERTY. IN EARLY 2022 MY WIFE AND I, WE BOUGHT THIS LOT. IT WAS A VACANT LOT AND IT WAS ZONED RESIDENTIAL BUT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WE DECIDED TO AN OWNER/BUILDER AND WE WANTED TO DO THAT BECAUSE I ALWAYS WANTED TO BUILD AN OUTHOUSE AND I'M A VERY HANDS-ON PERSON. MY WIFE, SHE'S AN ARCHITECT AND SHE'S HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AND SHE'S ALWAYS WANTED TO DESIGN HER OWN HOUSE. SO WE BOUGHT THIS HOUSE WITH THAT INTENT AND THE INTENT WAS NOT TO -- WHICH UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF HOMES IN OUR AREA ARE TO BE RENTAL FOR VACATION. WE BOUGHT IT SO WE COULD MAKE OUR FINAL HOME AND BE PART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO WHEN MY WIFE, BEING AN ARCHITECT, WHEN SHE SAT DOWN TO ENVISION KIND OF WHAT HIOS -- WHAT KIND OF HOUSE THAT WE WANT, SHE WANTED TO BRING A HISTORIC FEEL FROM SAINT AUGUSTINE TO THE BEACH AND WITH THE HISTORIC REPRODUCTION OF A 19TH CENTURY HOME. AND I KNOW I PROBABLY SHOULD'VE PUT A PICTURE OF MY HOUSE BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MOST OF YOU ALL HAVE CAME HERE, BUT I DO HAVE ONE THAT I WANTED TO PASS AROUND. BUT I THINK MY WIFE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB. SHE WAS VERY GOOD AT HER JOB AND I THINK WE DID THAT AND WE ARE VERY PROUD OF IT, AND THE AMOUNT OF HANDS-ON WORK THAT

[00:50:04]

WE DID ON BUILDING THAT HOUSE MADE IT VERY SPECIAL. AND THAT'S THE KEY IS WE WANT IT TO BE SPECIAL, NOT ONLY TO US BUT ALSO TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO BE IN THERE IS SO MUCH DETAIL YOU HAVE TO PUT INTO IT, WE ACTUALLY DIDN'T GET STARTED UNTIL EARLY 2023. JACK SAID I THINK IT WAS JANUARY. AND SO AT THAT TIME, YOU KNOW, THE TIME FROM WHEN WE BOUGHT THE LOT, THAT NORTHSIDE PROPERTY WAS JUST A GENERAL MERCHANDISE STORE WITH VERY FEW CUSTOMERS AND HARDLY EVER A CAR IN THERE. BUT THE OWNER OF THAT PROPERTY SOLD IT IN THE FALL OF 2023, AND IN SPRING THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT IT OPENED UP A FISH STOP IN THE SPRING OF 2024. SO THAT DRAMATICALLY CHANGED THE DYNAMICS OF THAT BUSINESS FROM BASICALLY NO CARS TO LIMITED CARS ALL DAY LONG AND ALMOST DAILY DELIVERIES. THE SOUTH SIDE PROPERTY, WHEN I BOUGHT THE LOT, WAS BASICALLY A BLANK LOT AS WELL BUT ALSO BUILT THE HOUSE AND IT WAS BUILT BY A BUILDER AND OF COURSE HE GOT IT DONE IN SIX MONTHS AS OPPOSED TO MYSELF, ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF. AND IMMEDIATELY TURNED AROUND AND TURNED IT INTO A RENTAL. SO THAT'S BASICALLY VERY, VERY HIGH OCCUPANCY RATE. AND THANKFULLY I'VE GONE THROUGH A LOT OF HELP WITH THE ACCOUNTING. I WAS ABLE TO GET MY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY LAST JULY. SO GOING INTO EACH SIDE OF OUR PROPERTY, THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE IS -- THIS IS A FRONT FACING A1A AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE REQUESTING A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE FOR THE ENTIRE LANE, OTHER THAN OF COURSE THE GATE, WHICH WOULD ALSO BE SIX FEET. SO THIS IS A VIEW FROM OUR FRONT PORCH. SO YOU CAN SEE IT'S FACING OF COURSE A1A. THE ONLY THING I WANTED TO MENTION HERE, ALSO, IS THE FEW THINGS , ONE, WE HAVE A VERY SMALL RETAINING WALL THAT WAS REQUIRED PER THE COUNTY AROUND THE ENTIRE PERIMETER OF THE PROPERTY. AND THAT'S WHERE OF COURSE THE FENCE WILL BE. IT WON'T BE ATTACHED TO THE RETAINING WALL BUT IT WILL GO UP FROM THERE. AND THEN AT THIS TIME, BECAUSE THAT TOOK THE PICTURE IN THE WINTER, WE HAD SUBSEQUENTLY PUT A LOT OF TREES AND BUSHES, I'M SORRY, BUSHES IN THAT AREA IN FRONT OF THE GRASS BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THOSE WHO DID STOP BY, IT'S VERY, VERY WELL MANICURED. AGAIN THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME, MY WIFE IS VERY GOOD AT THAT. SHE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE THINGS VERY PRETTY. SO GOING INTO THE HARDSHIPS RELATED TO JUST THIS FIRST PROPERTY LINE, SO AS I'M SURE ALL OF YOU KNOW, A1A HAS EXTREMELY HIGH TRAFFIC, AVERAGE GOING 45 MILES AND I THINK A LOT HIGHER, UNFORTUNATELY. SO WITH A YOUNG DOG, YOUNG CHILD AND A DOG , FENCE INTO WHAT I MEAN BY THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER BUT THE NEXT THREE BULLETS, IT DOES CAUSE EXCESSIVE NOISE, ESPECIALLY DURING PEAK TIMES, CARS DRIVING BY. CERTAINLY IS NOT VISUALLY APPEALING WHEN YOU SEE CARS GOING BY WHEN YOU'RE SITTING ON THE FRONT PORCH, TO TAKE IN THE AMBIENCE, TO BE ABLE TO BE THAT CLOSE TO THE BEACH. SO REALLY ABOUT THESE LAST THREE BULLETS, SO MY WIFE, I HAD MY WIFE SIT ON THAT PORCH IN OUR ROCKING CHAIR AND I SAID I'M GOING TO TAKE A FOUR FOOT FOUR AND PUT IT RIGHT ON THAT -- CLOSE TO WHERE WE SEE THE TELEPHONE POLE AND I WANT TO -- I ASKED HER, MAKE SURE YOU -- TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE AND SHE SAW EVERY CAR, HAD NO PROBLEMS IN EVERY CARGO BY. AND THEN I TOOK A BOARD AND IT WAS A SIX FOOT BOARD AND WHEN SHE SAT DOWN AND SHE LOOKED SHE DIDN'T SEE A SINGLE CARGO BY, AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, THAT TWO FEET MAKES A DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE, NOT ONLY FROM VISUALLY APPEALING BUT ALSO FROM NATURALLY, TWO MORE FEET IS GOING TO REDUCE SOME OF THE NOISE. ALSO I CAN SAY THIS MUCH, MY DAUGHTER, SHE'S 12 YEARS OLD, WE HAVE A DOG. SHE HAS

[00:55:04]

NEVER SPENT ANY TIME IN THE FRONT YARD AND THERE'S VARIOUS REASONS FOR THAT. AND ESPECIALLY WITH THE DOG BECAUSE OUR DOG, IF WE HAD A FOUR FOOT FENCE, WOULD EASILY JUMP OVER THAT , AND I CAN TELL YOU, DOGS GET OUT FROM PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. IT'S JUST NATURAL. AND THAT DOG, IF YOU JUMPED OVER THAT FOUR FOOT FENCE, I CAN ASSURE YOU, BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER LOVES HER DOG, AND SHE WOULD RUN AFTER HIM FOR THE SIMPLE REASON, AS SHE KNOWS THAT IF SHE DOESN'T, AND SHE HESITATES, THAT DOG IS GOING TO BE HIT BY A CAR. SO SHE DOESN'T WANT THAT, SO SHE'S GOING TO INSTINCTIVELY DO THAT AND THEREBY OF COURSE PUTTING BOTH THEIR LIVES IN DANGER. AND ALSO, EVEN IF I DIDN'T HAVE A DOG OUT THERE, AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I WOULDN'T EVEN BE -- I WOULDN'T TRUST HER OUT THERE BY HERSELF AND A REASON WHY IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO COME UP FROM THE ROAD.

AND YOU MAY THINK, WELL THAT'S FAR-FETCHED, HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION. BUT ACTUALLY IT HAPPENED TO ME. ON OUT IN FRONT OF MY YARD, WORKING AS I DO A LOT WITH THE HOUSE AND I HAD A HOMELESS MAN COME IN AND START BADGERING ME ABOUT HIRING HIM TO DO WORK ON THE HOUSE. AND YOU KNOW I'M NOT A SMALL PERSON BUT I CAN TELL YOU I WAS A LITTLE INTIMIDATED BY THE SITUATION, AND BECAUSE THIS HOMELESS PERSON IS CLEARLY UNSTABLE AND BOUND TO DO ANYTHING. AND SO I THREATENED HIM BY CALLING THE SHERIFF AND HE FINALLY GOT OFF MY PROPERTY. SO THIS IS NOT A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION. IT'S A REAL SITUATION. SO BY HAVING A SIX FOOT FENCE, I BELIEVE ALL OF THESE SPECIFIC HARDSHIPS WOULD BE ADDRESSED, BUT I WANT TO ADDRESS ONE OTHER THING THAT AS I MENTIONED BEFORE ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE TO US OF BUILDING A VISUALLY APPEALING HOUSE, THAT ALSO IS APPLYING TO OUR FENCE.

AND I WAS TALKING AGAIN TO MY WIFE THIS MORNING, I'M NOT THE IDEA PERSON, SO I JUST DO WHAT SHE TELLS ME TO DO. AND SHE SAYS, IT IS GOING TO BE DESIGNED SO IT BLENDS IN WITH THE OVERALL HOUSE. SO IT'S GOING TO USE THE SAME COLOR PATTERNS THAT WE HAVE FOR THE HOUSE AND TRIM ON THE FENCE IT SELF. ALSO SO OUR FENCE WILL BE A TRACK WITH DECORATIVE FEATURES LIKE CATS WITH LIGHTS, WHICH I DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAVE, AND SHE WANTS TO PUT SOME BEEFY COLUMNS THERE, AND REALLY TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ANYONE THAT MAY BE DRIVING BY, THAT -- TO DESIGN A FENCE THAT'S MORE THAN JUST FUNCTIONAL. IN MOST CASES, MOST PEOPLE JUST DESIGN A FENCE THAT'S FUNCTIONAL AND THAT'S IT. AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. AND WE WANTED TO BE AN INSPIRATION TO OTHERS, TO SAY, WOW, WHAT A BEAUTIFUL FENCE, AND I LIKE TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR. I DO HAVE A ROUGH SKETCH OF WHAT MY WIFE PUT TOGETHER, SO IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT, I COULD PASS IT

UP THERE. >> CAN YOU PUT IT IN THE MIDDLE? THERE'S A CAMERA UP ABOVE THAT WILL CAPTURE IT.

>> RIGHT HERE? >> YES SIR. THAT'S PERFECT.

>> OBVIOUSLY JUST A ROUGH DESIGN SHE JUST THREW TOGETHER THIS MORNING, SO IT'S NOT LIKE THAT BUT IT'S JUST A CONCEPT THAT SHE CAME TO THIS MORNING THAT I WAS TALKING TO HER ABOUT, SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAD YESTERDAY, THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKING SURE THAT WE COMMUNICATE THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A BEAUTIFUL FENCE AND THIS IS THE FIRST THING SHE CAME UP WITH, AND I'M SURE IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE BETTER THAN THAT, THAT TIME. AND THEN ADDITIONALLY, I'M GOING TO BE PUTTING IN LANDSCAPING AGAIN BASED ON WHAT MY WIFE TELLS ME TO DO, WILL BE INSTALLED IN FRONT OF THE FENCE AND SO BASICALLY JUST SOFT AND THE LOOK, PROVIDING A MORE INVITING AND NATURAL LOOK. AND I WANT TO MENTION THAT THIS ONE IS A PLAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING BECAUSE THEY HAD THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM TO SOLVE A YEAR AGO, WE WOULD

[01:00:07]

ALREADY PLAN IT WHEN IT INSTALLED THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM SO WE COULD WATER ANY PLASTIC WE PUT THERE IN FRONT OF THE FENCE.

SO OUR GOAL, ASSUMING WE GET APPROVAL, IS THAT YOU DRIVE BY OUR HOUSE AND YOU HARDLY EVEN NOTICE THE FENCE. AND WHAT LITTLE OF THE FENCE THAT YOU DO NOTICE WILL BE VISUALLY APPEALING AND BLENDS BEAUTIFULLY WITH THE HOUSE, AND IT MATCHES

IT. >> AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT -- MY WIFE FOUND THIS THING HERE. IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT. PROBABLY NOT THE PINE TREES BUT SOMETHING SIMILAR THAT WILL PROBABLY BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER, I GUESS, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING VERY APPEALING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

LIKE. >> THAT'S IT. YEAH, SO THE SIX FOOT FENCE WOULD MITIGATE ALL THESE HARDSHIPS AND I THINK FROM AN AESTHETIC ASPECT OF, I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD BE VERY, VERY

HAPPY. >> OKAY.

>> OKAY, SO FOR THE SOUTH SIDE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS THE AIRBNB, THAT WE ARE REQUESTING A SIX FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY TO THE 25 FOOT LINE AND THEN OF COURSE WE WOULD HAVE A NORMAL SIX FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY TO THE END. SO HERE IS A VIEW FROM OUR PORCH AND LOOKING THIS TIME SOUTH AND JUST LIKE WE DID, WE DO THE SAME THING AS WE DID FOR THE FRONT FACING THE STREET, I SAT DOWN IN THE ROCKING CHAIR, SHE LOOKED OVER AND SHE -- AND I HELD A FOUR FOOT BOARD UP AND SAID, HEY, WHAT DO YOU SEE? SHE SAW EVERYTHING. SHE SAW THE CARS THERE. SHE SAW PEOPLE WALKING AROUND BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, IT'S MORE LIKE A HOTEL BUT AS SOON AS I PUT UP THE SIX FOOT, SHE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. SO TWO FEET MAKES A DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE FROM DRAMATICALLY HAVING TO SEE THAT ON A DAILY BASIS. THIS PROPERTY SOUTH OF MY PROPERTY IS PROBABLY DAILY, SOMETIMES NUMEROUS VEHICLES, JUST THE STOLEN WEEKENDERS ACTUALLY FOR CARS, HOW YOU END UP WITH FOUR CARS IN ONE PLACE LIKE THAT BUT WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE TIMES WHERE VETERANS HAVE TRESPASSED ON OUR DRIVEWAY AND YARD TO GET OVER TO THE FISH SHOP AND WE'VE SEEN IT MULTIPLE TIMES, AND WE ACTUALLY HAD ONE LADY WHO SAID I THOUGHT THIS WAS PART OF THE FISH STOP WHICH, YOU KNOW, BUT NEVERTHELESS A FOUR FOOT FENCE COULD BE EASILY JUMPED OVER BECAUSE IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DISRESPECT YOUR PROPERTY, THAT FOUR FOOT FENCE IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THEM. SO FROM THAT HARDSHIP PERSPECTIVE AND VISUAL PERSPECTIVE, A SIX FOOT FENCE WOULD MITIGATE ALL THESE HARDSHIPS. OKAY, SO NOW WE'RE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE WHICH IS WHERE THE FISH SHOP IS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE. WASN'T THERE UNTIL LATE INTO MY BUILDING PROCESS. AND HERE WE ARE LOOKING AT AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY UP TO THE 25 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE, AND THEN FROM THERE A SIX FOOT AND THAT'S IN LIEU OF A 6'4". SO JUST A FEW PICTURES HERE OF THE PROPERTY AT THAT SIDE. SO ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF -- THAT PICTURE REPRESENTS OUR FRONT PORCH AND SO AS I DID ON THE OTHER TWO SIDES, I ASKED MY WIFE TO SIT DOWN ON THE ROCKING CHAIR AND LOOK OVER, AND I HAD A FOUR FOOT POST OR BOARD AND I SAID, WHAT DO YOU SEE, AND SHE SEES ALL CARS. AND THEN -- BUT ONCE I PUT IT TO SIX FEET, SHE DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING. AND SO AGAIN, TWO FEET MAKES A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE. AND THEN THE MIDDLE PICTURE IS WHAT YOU KIND OF SEE HERE AS THE INDUSTRIAL SIZED

[01:05:06]

GARBAGE CAN IS THERE. THE OWNER TYPICALLY PARKS THERE. THEY CONGREGATE OUT THERE. THEY ALSO SMOKE OUT THERE. THEY SMOKE THEIR SALMON OUT THERE. AND SO BEING ON A TIGHT BUDGET AND WE HAD ORIGINALLY SET UP THE HEIGHT OF THIS ONE HERE TO BE 60, AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF THE 60, BECAUSE UNTIL I GOT A COMPLAINT, I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A RULE BUT JUST SIMPLY FINANCIALLY, SIX FEET IS GOING TO WORK, I'M GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH SIX FEET.

SO WE PUT SIX FEET IN THEIR AND THIS RIGHT HERE, THIS WINDOW RIGHT HERE IS WHERE OUR DINING ROOM IS. AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE EVERYTHING. AND SO BECAUSE WE DID THIS BY PLAN, WE WENT AHEAD AND HAD A HORIZONTAL FENCE INSTEAD OF A VERTICAL AND THAT WAS ONE FROM AESTHETIC PERSPECTIVE BUT ALSO, TWO, IN CASE WE DID NEED TO HAVE IT HIGHER, WE COULD EASILY DO IT, AND SO WE JUST KEPT ON ADDING PLANKS UNTIL IT GOT TO EIGHT FEET AND THEN EIGHT FEET ACTUALLY WAS SUCCESSFUL IN BEING ABLE TO BLOCK IT AND ALSO DURING THE TIMEFRAME WHERE WE HAD SIX FEET, THE SMELL FROM THEIR GARBAGE CANS EASILY OVER THAT SIX FEET. WELL ONCE WE WENT TO EIGHT, AT LEAST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE VISUAL PERSPECTIVE, IT WAS MITIGATED AND SO WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS TO NOT ONLY TAKE THAT EIGHT FEET THERE BUT EXTEND IT ALL THE WAY TO 25 FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

AND THEN AS AN EXAMPLE OF LOOKING OUTSIDE OUR KITCHEN WINDOW, THIS IS WHAT WE TYPICALLY SEE, AND SO I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF THIS BUT YOU SEE A SIX FOOT FENCE THERE, YOU BASICALLY SEE THE TOPS OF THESE CARS. BUT ONCE YOU GO TO EIGHT

FEET YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING. >> AND I STOP YOU REAL QUICK AND ASK A QUESTION? SO THAT EIGHT FEET, AND YOU'RE WANTING TO EXTEND IT UP TO YOUR FRONT PROPERTY LINE, YOU'RE WANTING TO EXTEND IT AT THE EIGHT FEET LEVEL OR SIX FEET? BECAUSE THE SITE PLAN I HAVE IN FRONT OF ME SHOWS THE ADDITIONAL FOOTAGE AS

SIX FEET, NOT EIGHT. >> SO --

>> YOU WANT THE ENTIRE LENGTH --

>> KNOW, SO FROM HERE TO THE 25 FOOT -- FROM THE PROPERTY LINE IS EIGHT FEET AND FROM HERE TO THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY LINE,

THAT'S SIX FEET. >> OKAY.

>> THANK YOU. >> I THINK WE GOT THE REST. DO YOU GUYS WANT TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS?

>> I GOT ONE MORE. ONE MORE SIDE.

>> YEAH, WE ALREADY WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT AND THEN WE HAD THE REAR PROPERTY LINE. SO THIS, WE ARE ASKING FOR EIGHT FEET ALL THE WAY ACROSS, AND SO HERE'S A PICTURE AND BY THE WAY , WE DID THE EXACT SAME THING HERE. WE SAT DOWN ON OUR BACK PORCH. WE LOOKED OVER. WE BUILT IT AND WE ACTUALLY BUILT IT TO SIX FEET IN THIS CASE, AND WE COULD EASILY SEE OUR NEIGHBOR. IT WAS LIKE WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A FENCE. AND SO I SLOWLY BUT SURELY RAISED IT AGAIN BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY I DON'T HAVE TO BUT WHEN WE FINALLY GOT TO EIGHT FEET IT WAS PERFECT AND WE HAVE BEAUTIFUL PRIVACY. AND SO OUR REAR NEIGHBOR, SOME OF THE HARDSHIPS, HE INSTALLED A CAMERA POINTED AT THE AIRBNB BACKYARD BECAUSE IT IS ADJACENT TO HIS LOT AS WELL, THAT THE AIRBNB OWNER HAD THE SHERIFF DEPUTY HAD HIM REMOVE IT AND THE REAR NEIGHBOR VERBALLY ABUSED MANY OF MY CONTRACTORS DURING THE HOUSING PROCESS AND OF COURSE I MENTIONED THIS STUFF TO MY WIFE AND MY DAUGHTER, AND MY DAUGHTER NOW IS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE NEIGHBOR BEHIND US BECAUSE OF THIS DISRUPTIVE, FRANKLY, AND WORRISOME BEHAVIOR. AND WE WILL ALSO BE INSTALLING A POOL WITH A SLIDE IN THE BACKYARD AND WE WILL BE NEEDING PRIVACY PARTICULARLY WITH OUR YOUNG DAUGHTER AND HER FEMALE FRIENDS.

AND I WANT TO MENTION ALSO, WHICH IS CERTAINLY RATHER CURIOUS, IF NOTHING ELSE, THAT THREE MONTHS AFTER WE BUILT OUR FENCE THERE, AT LEAST A LIMITED AMOUNT OF FENCE, THE NEIGHBOR SOUTH OF OUR NEIGHBOR WHO MADE THE COMPLAINT, HE INSTALLED AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE AND IT'S BEEN THERE FOR SEVEN MONTHS NOW, AND HE HAS YET TO MAKE A COMPLAINT ON THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THAT BUT MAYBE IT'S A CHANGE OF HEART AND HE LIKES EIGHT-FOOT FENCES. I DON'T KNOW. BUT ANYWAY, AN EIGHT FOOT

[01:10:02]

FENCE WOULD MITIGATE ALL OF THESE HARDSHIPS. AND JUST VERY QUICKLY, I WANT TO SHOW SOME REALLY AESTHETICALLY PLEASING EXAMPLES THAT ARE OUT THERE JUST IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, JUST DRIVING AROUND, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE, THE QUALITY AND THE VISUAL ASPECT OF IT IS GOING TO BE TREMENDOUSLY BETTER AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY CAPABILITIES, IT'S MY WIFE, AND SHE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE THINGS LOOK BEAUTIFUL. BUT YOU JUST SEE LIKE THIS ONE IS A NICE ONE. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME THING, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PILLARS LIKE THIS AND MAYBE MULTIPLE ONES ALL THE WAY ACROSS. BUT -- AND THEN THERE'S A BUNCH OF THEM OUT THERE BUT IN SOME PRETTY GENERAL BUT -- THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE HOURS.

THEN THERE IS BUNCHES OF EIGHT-FOOT FENCES OUT THERE.

HERE'S THE NEIGHBOR'S EIGHT FOOT FENCE THAT HE HASN'T PUT ANY COMMENTS IN, AND THEN HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE, JUST I THINK THIS IS EVEN HIGHER THAN EIGHT FEET BUT IT'S CERTAINLY AT LEAST EIGHT FEET AND THIS IS THE FENCE THAT GOES ALL THE WAY ALONG THE PARKING LOT OF OASIS RESTAURANT. AND -- WHICH IS A VERY BUSY PLACE, JUST LIKE OUR FISH STOP, AND THEN THERE'S SOME OTHER ONES HERE, JUST SO YOU GET WHAT'S UP THERE BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

>> MR. LABANOWSKI? >> JUST TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. ON YOUR GAIT IS THAT GOING TO BE THE SAME AS YOUR FENCE OR IS THERE GOING TO BE A DECORATIVE GATE?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE DECORATIVE GAIT, YES.

>> THE OTHER ONE, THE TRASHCAN FOR THE FISH SHOP IS THERE. HOW OFTEN ARE THEY GOING IN AND OUT OF THERE AFTER THAT? TO EMPTY

THE TRASH? >> IT'S TWICE A WEEK, RIGHT ?

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> CAN YOU GO BACK, I THINK IT'S TWO SLIDES TO THE ONE BEFORE 106 SANDPIPER. ONE MORE, THEN ONE MORE, THEN ONE MORE. SORRY. NO, THE NEXT ONE BEFORE THAT. OKAY. NOW YOU SEE THE FENCE ON THE RIGHT THERE, YOUR FURTHEST PICTURE. I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN WITH A SIX FOOT FENCE ON THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY LINE. JUST A SOLID SIX FOOT FENCE AND YOU SEE HOW AT THE TOP HERE IT'S A LITTLE MORE TRANSPARENT. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT JUST FOR THE TOP LIKE FOOT AND A HALF, MAYBE? YOU STILL HAVE THE SECURITY AND YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR VISUAL APPEAL BUT IT WOULDN'T BE QUITE SO FORTRESSLIKE LOOKING.

>> OKAY. SO -- >> BECAUSE YOUR WIFE'S INAUDIBLE ] IS LOVELY, I'M NOT CONCERNED ON THE SIDES BUT ON

THE FRONT. >> AGREE AND SHE, UNDERSTANDING THAT AS WELL, IF YOU COULD PUT THAT SLIDE BACK UP THERE, SHE WANTED TO BREAK IT UP AS WELL AND SO THAT WAS HER THOUGHT. IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE IT'S NOW VERTICAL AND IT WILL BE SPACES SO THAT WAY YOU HAVE A TRUE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO, SO THAT WAS -- THAT WASN'T EVEN ME GIVING HER THE IDEA.

THAT WAS JUST HER COMING UP AND SAYING, I DON'T WANT A LOAN LINEAR THING BECAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT, AT LEAST APPARENTLY NOT, ANYWAY, SO YES, WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT

FOR SURE. >> MAYBE THOSE COULD BE OFFSET A LITTLE, SO A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT COMES THROUGH. BECAUSE A LOT OF THOSE FENCES YOU PUT UP, THERE WAS LIGHT GOING THROUGH AND I LIKE THAT. YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE YOUR PRIVACY AND SECURITY BUT IT'S NOT LIKE THIS FORTRESS.

>> TOGETHER IN THIS ONE WE COULD EASILY --

>> A LITTLE BIT MORE LIGHT AND AIRY ARE. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTION? SEEING NONE, IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER THREE NECK? WE'RE BACK

INTO THE AGENCY FOR A MOTION. >> I'M SORRY, MR. OLSON. YOU

WERE UP FIRST. >> I THINK THE CASE HAS BEEN VERY ADEQUATELY MADE FOR THE VARIANCE AS REQUESTED. I THINK THE ADDED SUGGESTION OF OPEN, A LITTLE BIT MORE OPENNESS AT THE TOP, IS A GOOD ONE, AND IN ADDITION IT REDUCES THE WIND LOAD A BIT ON AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE. SO I'M PREPARED TO MAKE THE MOTION. I MOVE THAT ZONING VARIANCE 2025-01 BE APPROVED BASED ON SIX FINDINGS OF FACT AND SIX CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED

IN THE STAFF REPORT. >> COULD I MAKE ONE COMMENT? WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT DIVIDING PART THAT WAS WITH THE

[01:15:06]

SIX FOOT SECTION, NOT THE EIGHT FOOT SECTION, I JUST WANTED TO

CLARIFY THAT. >> SO CAN WE HAVE THAT AS A CONDITION TO YOUR MOTION? THAT THE TOP FOOT AND A HALF, DOES THAT SOUND REASONABLE TO MAKE THE TOP FOOT AND A HALF WOULD BE ANGLED DIFFERENTLY AND HAVE SOME LIGHT COMING THROUGH . DOES THAT

SOUND REASONABLE? >> MR. OLSON, DO YOU AGREE WITH

THAT? >> YES.

>> AND I'LL SECOND THAT. HE ALREADY DID.

>> MADAM CHAIR, CAN I GET THE CLARIFICATION AS TO WHETHER THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY THE SIX FOOT FENCE OR BOTH THE SIX AND EIGHT

FOOT FENCE? >> IT'S JUST THE SIX FOOT.

>> I'M OKAY WITH IT JUST BEING IN THE FRONT. I DON'T HAVE A

PROBLEM WITH THE SIDES. >> CORRECT, JUST THE FRONT.

>> YES, THANK YOU. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THOSE CARS ON THE SIDE.

YEAH. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? LET'S REGISTER TO VOTE. OKAY. THAT MOTION PASSES 7-0. THANK

[4. ZVAR 2025-14 7006 Middleton Avenue. ZVAR 2025-14 7006 Middleton Ave requests for a Zoning Variance to Table 6.01 of the Land Development Code to allow for a Front Yard setback of fourteen (14) feet in lieu of the required twenty-five (25) feet; a Rear Yard setback of nine (9) feet, six (6) inches in lieu of the required ten (10) feet; a Side Yard setback of four (4) feet, six (6) inches in lieu of the required eight (8) feet; and a maximum lot coverage by all buildings of 32% in lieu of the required 25% in the Residential General (RG-1) zoning district.]

YOU. >> THANK YOU.

>> EXCUSE ME. WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 4. IS THERE ANY EX PARTE? DR. HILSENBECK?

>> ROOF BY YESTERDAY, LATE AFTERNOON.

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >>

>> MR. LABANOWSKI? >> I DID A SITE VISIT AS WELL AND I ALSO TALKED TO THE SURVEY TEAM THAT WAS OUT THERE AT THE TIME. ALSO THERE WAS NO NOTIFICATION SIGN ON THIS

PROPERTY, EITHER. >> THAT'S CORRECT, THERE WAS NO

SIGN. >> MR. OLSON.

>> YES EXACTLY, DITTO WHAT WAS JUST REMARKED WHEN MR. LABANOWSKI WAS THERE ON THE 17TH. I HAD TO ASK THE SURVEY CREW IF THEY COULD CONFIRM THAT WAS THE PROPER ADDRESS, BECAUSE AGAIN, NO SIGN NOTICING A HEARING SO I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THAT SIGN WAS THERE, HAD BEEN THERE, HOW IT ENDED UP NOT BEING THERE, OR WHETHER IT HAD NEVER BEEN PLACED, I DON'T KNOW.

>> I WENT BACK THERE SEVERAL TIMES OVER A COUPLE WEEKS AND

THEY WEREN'T THERE. >> ALSO DID A SITE VISIT.

>> MR. SMITH, STAFF IS THE ONE THAT PUTS UP THE PUBLIC HEARING

SIGNS, CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. THE SIGNS ARE PART OF THE PUBLIC NOTICING PROCEDURE FOR ALL VARIANCES AND SIMILAR ITEMS. I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO IT A LITTLE BIT, MAKE SURE I CAN FIND THAT AFFIDAVIT THAT@WAS PLACED DOWN THERE.

SOMETIMES THEY AR REMOVED BUT I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO THAT

RIGHT NOW. >> IT COULD BE REMOVED BY

SOMEONE ELSE. >> THAT'S CORRECT. OFTEN TIMES THEY REMOVED BY MAINTENANCE, LAWN MOWING, THINGS LIKE THAT,

AND NOT PLACED BACK. >> DR. HILSENBECK.

>> I'D LIKE TO JUST STATE THAT I SENT THE ITEM TO TWO PEOPLE, FRIENDS OF MINE, PAT HAMILTON WHO LIVES ON CHARLES STREET AND SISSY CASTO WHO LIVES ON MIDDLETON RIGHT NEAR THE PROPERTY. I SENT THAT LAST FRIDAY AND CISSY CASTO TOLD ME THERE WAS NO SIGN THERE, EVEN ON FRIDAY. SO -- AND THEN I LOOKED AT IT LAST EVENING AND IT WASN'T THERE.

>> ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU MR. RATFORD?

>> YES MA'AM . >> GO AHEAD.

>> I'M CHARLES RATFORD. MY ADDRESS 7935 A1A SOUTH . I'M REPRESENTING MYSELF AND RATFORD CONSTRUCTION THAT'S LISTED ON THE DEED. GO AHEAD. THIS IS THE PROPERTY. I DIDN'T CHECK FOR THE SIGN. I WAS CALLED SOME TIME AGO WHEN SOMEBODY DROVE BY AND SAID WE NOTICED YOUR SIGN IS OUT THERE.

APPLYING FOR -- TO REDUCE THE SETBACK. I'M APPLYING FOR THE EXACT SAME REDUCTION IN SET BACKS THAT WERE APPROVED THREE TIMES PREVIOUSLY. I PURCHASED THE LOT. I CLOSED ON THE LOT ON 4/19/24. I KNEW THERE WAS A VARIANCE ON IT. I WAS UNAWARE OF THE EXPIRATION DATE. IT EXPIRED ON JANUARY 18TH OF '25 AND I WENT INTO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TO TURN IN A CLEARANCE SHEET APPLICATION 12 DAYS AFTER, AND THAT'S WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT IT EXPIRED ON THAT DAY, AGAIN THE LOT IS A 50 BY 50 LOT. THESE DOWN HERE, THESE ARE THE FINDINGS FROM THE HEARINGS. THEY ALL -- EVERY ONE OF THEM, WHERE IT SAYS IN THE

[01:20:06]

BOTTOM, IN THE FINDINGS, THEY'RE ALL IDENTICAL. THE SAME WORDING, THE SAME EVERYTHING, APPROVING THE VARIANCE. THE LOT IS 50 BY 50. MOST OF THE LOTS ARE ORIGINALLY WERE PLATTED AS 100 BY 100. ALL THE LOTS WITH SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES NORTH OF THERE ARE ALL 100 BY 100 LOTS. THIS LOT WAS DIVIDED OUT PROBABLY BEFORE THE SET BACKS, THE STANDARD SET BACKS WITH THE COUNTY WERE PUT INTO PLACE AND THERE'S JUST NO WAY THAT YOU CAN BUILD A HOUSE ON IT. THAT WILL -- THAT'S CONVENTIONAL SIZE. THIS IS A LAYOUT OF THE SITE .50 BY 50. ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, THAT IS USING STANDARD COUNTY SETBACKS. WE CAN PUT ABOUT A 485 SQUARE FEET WHICH IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF A VERY SMALL OFFICE SITE TRAILER. ON THE RIGHT IT SHOWS THE HOUSE THAT DOES FIT THERE. THIS IS THE SETBACKS THAT WERE REQUESTED THE LAST THREE HEARINGS IN THE SAME THAT I'M REQUESTING NOW ON THAT SOUTH LOT. LET ME SEE IF I'VE GOT IT ON HERE. THIS IS A SURVEY. THIS IS A CURRENT SURVEY THEY DID LAST WEEK. ACTUALLY THIS WEEK. SO ON THE SOUTH OF LOT 26, ON THE RIGHT SIDE, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE LOT THAT I'M ON THAT'S MS. CARNEY'S LOT, 7018 MIDDLETON. WHERE WE ARE ASKING FOR THE REDUCTION ON THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE, NOTHING CAN BE BUILT NEXT TO IT SO IT'S NOT AFFECTING ELSE'S HOUSE, IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSER TO ANOTHER BUILDING. AYE THIS IS A BLOWUP OF THAT SAME THING. THE ONLY OPPOSITION THAT I HEARD TO THIS WAS MS. CARNEY, WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY BEHIND IT.

SHE HAS A RENTAL, VACATION RENTAL, TWO SMALL BUILDINGS THERE BEHIND IT. HER CONCERN WAS THAT IT WAS GOING TO JUST PLACE MORE WATER ON HER LOT. BOTH LOTS ARE AT THE SAME ELEVATION. BOTH OF THEM ARE JUST OVER FOUR FEET AND FLOOD ELEVATION IS ABOVE SEVEN SO ALL OF MIDDLETON IS, TOO . ONE HOUSE IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT IT, IF YOU HUNDRED SQUARE FEET OF EXTRA HOUSE IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT ANY KIND OF DISPLACEMENT OF FLOODWATER. SO I MEAN BASICALLY I'M JUST ASKING FOR AN EXTENSION. I DON'T NEED A WHOLE YEAR. I CAN GO IN TOMORROW AND TURN IN A CLEARANCE SHEET PLAN ACTUALLY READY TO BUILD IT. I DID INCLUDE THIS SMALL CONCEPT HOUSE. THIS DOES FIT. THIS IS ONE OF THE TWO THAT WE DESIGNED FOR THIS LOT. IT IS VERY SMALL, ONLY HAS 1080 SQUARE FEET AND THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN GET WITH THE REDUCED SETBACKS.

THERE'S NO CHANCE OF BUILDING ANYTHING LIKE THIS WITH REGULAR SETBACKS. THE HOUSE COULD ONLY BE 14 FOOT DEEP. THERE WAS A HOUSE ON THIS PROPERTY A LONG TIME AGO. IT HAD WATER AND SEWER GOING TO IT. THE ORIGINAL OWNER, THEY WERE APPLYING FOR THE EXACT SAME SETBACKS. THE HOUSE WAS DEMOLISHED AFTER HURRICANE MATTHEW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY CAME UP WITH THESE SETBACK REQUESTS BUT I ASSUME THAT WAS PROBABLY TO COME UP WITH A MINIMUM SIZE HOUSE THAT WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY HAD THAT WOULD FIT ON THE LOT, MAYBE BUILD A TWO BEDROOM HOUSE ON IT.

MY BIGGEST POINT IS IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE THREE TIMES

FOR THE EXACT SAME THING. >> REPORTER: OKAY. WE HAVE SOME

QUESTIONS. MR. OLSON? >> YES. COULD YOU SPEAK TO THE LOT COVERAGE INCREASE THAT YOU ARE REQUESTING?

>> IT'S THE SAME -- >> THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME TESTIMONY HAT MIDDLETON AVENUE HAS FLOODING ISSUES SO PRESUMABLY, IT MAY NOT BE A LOT BUT WOULD DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF ABSORPTION CIRCULATION IN THAT -- ON THE LOTS, AND COULD SEND THE WATER SOMEWHERE. I MEAN JUST

IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT. >> I'M APPLYING THE EXACT SAME INCREASE FROM 25% TO 32% THAT WAS APPROVED PREVIOUSLY AND I

[01:25:02]

THINK IT AMOUNTS TO 300 SOME FEET, SQUARE FEET EXTRA HOUSE AND MAKES IT, REALLY WHAT IS, THE DEPTH, IT MAKES IT BIG ENOUGH THAT YOU COULD PUT A CAR SAFELY OFF THE STREET AND

ENCLOSE YOUR GARAGE. >> NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. JUST THE IMPACT OF ADDING -- REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF ABSORPTION GROUND ON THAT LOT AND I THINK EVERYONE RECOGNIZES THAT --

>> THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD IS THAT LOW, I DON'T THINK THAT LITTLE BIT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE IS GOING TO MAKE THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE. THAT KIND OF PLANNING AND ZONING CONSTANT ALLOWS LOT COVERAGE IS TO DECREASE AND FOR DIFFERENT REASONS WHEN WE SUBMIT FOR FAMILY HOME. 7% IS NOT VERY MUCH

ON THAT SMALL 50 BY 50 LOT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> YES. I VOTED AGAINST THIS LAST TIME. I WAS THE ONE PERSON WHO DID. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH AND DONE SOME WORK AND MR. PELTON FROM THE STAFF CAME UP AND TALKED ABOUT THE DRAINAGE, AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FINDING ELEVATION ISSUES, IT'S SO HELLO THERE AND WE'RE FIGHTING STORM SURGE, THERE'S REALLY NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT AND THEY PLAN TO DO AS MUCH MITIGATION AS POSSIBLE. THE SWALE THAT IS IN FRONT OF THIS PROPERTY IS NOT DOWN. THERE IS JUST NO EXISTING SWALE AND THAT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE A CONDITION OF YOUR BUILDING. SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HELP THE AREA. THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO FIX THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE KIND OF BUILDING AGAINST NATURE A LITTLE BIT AND I DON'T THINK ANYTHING YOU CAN DO OR CAN'T DO IS GOING TO MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE. THEN I LOOK AT THE LOT SIZE MINIMUM FOR THIS ZONING DISTRICT AND ITS 75 FOOT MINIMUM LOT SIZE. AND YOURS IS 50 SO YOU'RE OVER 30% SMALLER. SO I LIKE DOING MY NUMBERS. SO OKAY, WELL 30% SMALLER SHOULD ENTITLE YOU TO A 30% INCREASE IN YOUR LOT COVERAGE. THAT'S EIGHT AND GET YOU 33 FEET, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. AFTER PUBLIC EVENT, IF THERE IS ANY -- I'M

GOING TO SUPPORT THIS TIME. >> WELL THANK YOU. LET ME SPEAK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE SWALE OUT FRONT. I WENT TO LOOK AT THAT SPECIFICALLY YESTERDAY. I DIDN'T TAKE A PICTURE OF IT BUT ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THIS PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 7018, THEY HAVE A NICE COLOR TO THEIR AND A NICE DITCH THAT GOES SOUTH AND THEN IT COMES ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY TO MY PROPERTY, AND A HOLE GOING DOWN TO THE CULVERT AND IT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE, LIKE SHE SAID. THE LAND IS JUST FLAT OUT TO THE ROAD. AND THEN ANOTHER 200 OR 300 FEET IT'S THAT WAY, THERE'S PALM TREES SO I LOOK AT THAT YESTERDAY, ONE OF MY SUGGESTIONS, I WOULD HAPPILY DIG OUT AND PUT IN AN ENGINEERED SWALE AND COVER IT. BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT GOING TO GO ANYWHERE. IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A DITCH.

>> MOSQUITO NEST AND A MOSQUITO FARM BUT THAT'S OKAY. KEEP IT

OFF THE STREET. >> YES MA'AM.

>> THANK YOU FOR VOLUNTEERING TO PUT THAT CULVERT IN THERE TO DRINK THAT WATER AWAY, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF MY CONCERNS AS WELL. IS THIS GOING TO BE A RENTAL UNIT?

>> NO SIR. I ACTUALLY BOUGHT THIS LOT. I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING CLOSE TO OUR HOUSE. MY SON JUST TURNED 22 AND WE WERE GOING TO BUILD A HOUSE TOGETHER, A STARTER HOME FOR HIM, THE

PURPOSE OF THIS SMALL HOUSE. >> THE REASON I WAS ASKING, BECAUSE BEHIND YOU ON THOSE OTHER LOTS THAT ARE RIGHT THERE,

THE RENTAL UNITS. >>

>> WHAT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ONE OF THOSE UNITS, DO YOU KNOW?

>> I DON'T. LOOK IT UP. >>

>> AS LONG AS YOU AGREE TO PUT THAT CULVERT IN THERE, NO ISSUE.

>> ONE OTHER THING THAT I HAVE, THE DARK AND HEAVY RED LINE REPRESENTS MASONRY, DECORATIVE MASONRY FENCE THAT I PLAN TO PUT AROUND IT. HERE'S A SAMPLE OF THAT SAME -- WE USE THIS OFTEN ON THE HOUSES WE BUILD, THE DECORATIVE FENCE, THAT WOULD ALLOW ALL THE WATER TO GO TO THE ROAD. NONE OF THE WATER WILL GO ONTO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. EVERYTHING WILL BE DIRECTED TO THE ROAD. WHEN THE ROAD FLOODS THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT BUT AT LEAST WE'LL CONTAIN IT ON MY PROPERTY OR SEND IT TO THE ROAD WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO.

>> YEAH, SOMEBODY WHO GREW UP THEIR 70S, WHICH I THINK IS PRIOR TO ABOUT ANYBODY WHO DOWN THERE OUTSIDE ABOUT FIVE FAMILIES, MOST OF THIS IS A TITLE ISSUED MORE THAN A RAIN ALL THE RAIN DOES FLOOD IT BUT THE REAL FLOODING COMES FROM

[01:30:01]

TITLE AND I DON'T THINK YOU CAN STOP THAT. I MEAN THIS IS GOING TO COME IN. YOU GOT TO BUILD YOUR HOUSE UP. OTHER HEALTH NEEDS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. ON THE RAIN, YOU DO HAVE SOME ISSUES BECAUSE THIS IS LOW. A LOT OF THAT WAS MARSH LANE FILLED IN YEARS AGO AS YOU GO FARTHER SOUTH TO WHERE THE CONDOS ARE. THAT WAS STRICTLY ALL MARSHLAND WHEN I WAS A KID.

>> I LIVE ON A1A. I PUT THIS IN HERE ,'S REBUTTAL ON HER THING BUT A1A FOR THE MOST PART SOUTH OF 206 IS ABOUT SEVEN FOOT, PLUS OR MINUS, AND THEN DOWN THERE IN MIDDLETON IT'S ALL AT 4 1/2 FEET SO IT'S THREE FEET BELOW A1A. I LIVE ON A1A AND WHEN WE HAD THE LAST TWO HURRICANES, A1A IS A FOOT UNDERWATER. SO MIDDLETON MUST BE THREE OR FOUR FEET UNDERWATER. THERE'S JUST NOTHING WE'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT AND THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD IS AT THE SAME ELEVATION. WE ARE ALL ON AN ISLAND AND IT CAN ONLY

GET SO HIGH. >> THE HIGHWAY PUTS THE RAINWATER OVER ON -- YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO GO TO THE RIVER SO YES, RAIN DOES CREATE SOME OF THE PROBLEM AS YOU DRIVE UP AND DOWN MIDDLETON. BUT THE REAL FLOODING COMES FROM TITLE ISSUES. YOU KNOW, KING TIDES AND NOR'EASTERS AND OF COURSE HURRICANES. AND THEN WE GET FOUR OR FIVE INCHES OF RAIN ON TOP OF

THAT, DOESN'T HELP. >> ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR? SEE NONE, WE ARE BACK IN THE AGENCY FOR A

MOTION. >> MR. GREEN?

>> I'D BE GLAD TO MOVE IT. YES, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ZONING VARIANCE 2025-14 70 06 MIDDLETON AVENUE BASED ON FIVE FINDINGS OF FACT AND SEVEN CONDITIONS PROVIDED BY THE STAFF

REPORT. >> OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEE NONE, LET'S REGISTER THE VOTE. ALL RIGHT. THAT MOTION PASSES 7-0.

THANK YOU.

[5. MINMOD 2025-13 128 Cypress Bluff Way. Request for a Minor Modification to the Graft's Landing (AKA Landing at Ole Florida) Planned Unit Development (Ordinance 2005-79, as amended) to allow for a Front Yard setback of fifteen (15) feet in lieu of the required twenty (20) feet to accommodate construction of a Single Family home.]

>>> ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON. WE ARE GOING TO CALL THIS MEETING BACK TO ORDER AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 5 AND MR. MATOVINA. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY?

>> YES. I NEED TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM THIS PARTICULAR ITEM BECAUSE DREES HOMES IS A CUSTOMER AND I ALSO AM GOING TO TAKE MY LEAVE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE I THINK I HAVE TO BE SOMEWHERE BEFORE WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THE MEETING. DID YOU WANT ME TO COME OVER THERE AND SIGN NOW?

>> OKAY, ANY EX PARTE FROM OTHER AGENCY MEMBERS? MR. LABANOWSKI?

>> YES I DID VISIT THE SITE . >> OKAY. MS. SPIEGEL?

>> SITE VISIT. >> AND MR. OLSON?

>> THE SITE ON THE 17TH. >> ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT. MR.

MURRELL, GO AHEAD. >> MY NAME IS GREG MURRELL. I LIVE AT 62 AMALIA WAY IN SAINT AUGUSTINE, AS GREG SAID, I'M THE OPERATIONS MANAGER FOR DREES HOMES. I HAVE A PRESENTATION UP HERE. ALL RIGHT. SO I AM HERE TO, TODAY, TO PRESENT MY VARIANCE REQUEST THAT OUR PROPERTY 128 CYPRESS BLUFF WAY.

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE IS THE PROPERTY PICTURE. I'D LIKE TO POINT YOUR ATTENTION TO A COUPLE THINGS, OUR SURVEY STAKES HERE ON THE RIGHT AND THOSE PALMETTO BUSHES AS WELL, WHICH I'LL REFERENCE HERE IN A SECOND. THIS IS HOW THE HOME LAYS OUT ON THE LOT. IF YOU NOTICE ALL ALONG THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS ROAD IS A VERY NICE CONSERVATION EASEMENT, WHICH IS GREAT FOR LOT 7. LOT 8, ON THE OTHER HAND, HAS THIS HAMMERHEAD TURNAROUND THAT PUSHES THE PRL BACK SIGNIFICANTLY FROM THE REST OF THE HOMES ON THE STREET SO THIS CREATES A STREETSCAPE ISSUE AS YOU COME DOWN THE ROAD, LOT EIGHT WILL BE NEARLY BLOCKED BY LOT SEVEN. ALSO BE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO DISOWN TO BE AS SHALLOW AS 52 FEET. EVEN AT 52 FEET THE BACK OF HIS HOME SITS RIGHT ON THAT CONSERVATION EASEMENT IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WILL BE TALKING THOSE PALMETTO BUSHES I REFERENCED EARLIER. THIS NEXT SLIDE THAT SHOWS OUR PROPOSED VARIANCE SUGGESTING FIVE FEET PUSHED FORWARD, EVEN JUST FIVE FEET WILL BE A LITTLE BIT BETTER STREETSCAPE IN THE FRONT. WE ARE STILL WELL OUT OF THAT FPL EASEMENT IN THE FRONT AND IT GIVES OUR FUTURE HOMEOWNER A LITTLE BIT OF USABLE SPACE IN THEIR BACKYARD BEFORE THE EASEMENT. SO WE THINK THIS IS A BETTER LAYOUT FOR BOTH THE COMMUNITY AND THE FUTURE

HOMEOWNER. THAT'S IT. >> SHORT AND SWEET. ANY QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER FIVE? WE'RE BACK IN THE AGENCY FOR A MOTION.

[01:35:03]

MS. SPIEGEL? >> MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION 202 5-1 THREE ON 128 CYPRESS BLUFF WAY BASED UPON SIX FINDINGS OF FACT AND SUBJECT TO SIX CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED

WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT. >> SECOND.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEE NONE, WITH REGISTER THE VOTE.

[6. MINMOD 2025-14 Pahlow Residence. Request for a Minor Modification to the Sawgrass Planned Unit Development (Ordinance 1973-08, as amended) to allow for a Rear Yard setback of zero (0) feet in lieu of the required five (5) feet to allow for an enclosed patio.]

THAT MOTION PASSES 6-0. THANK YOU GUYS. ON TO ITEM NUMBER SIX,

IS THERE ANY EX PARTE? >> YES. I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD RYAN, WHO IS THE PROPERTY OWNER, AND I DID A SITE VISIT AND MET WITH THE OWNER.

>> MR. LABANOWSKI? >> I DID A SITE VISIT.

>> ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU MR. RYAN?

>> YEAH. MY NAME IS RICHARD RYAN PAHLOW SO MY LAST NAME IS PAHLOW. I JUST GO BY MY MIDDLE NAME, RYAN. SO MY PROPERTY ADDRESS IS 1509 BIRKDALE LANE, PONTE VEDRA BEACH, 32802. AND LET'S SEE, MY APPLICATION IS TO MODIFY MY FIVE FOOT REAR SETBACK TO ZERO. AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION I HAD TO GET APPROVAL FROM MY INTERNAL ASSOCIATION AND CLUB COVE AND THEN ALSO FROM THE MASTER ASSOCIATION IN SAWGRASS . THIS IS THE PROPERTY THERE AT THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC . THESE ARE ZERO LOT LINE JUSTIFIED HOMES ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. AND MY HOME IS JUSTIFIED TO ZERO LOT LINE ON THE LEFT SIDE WITH I THINK EIGHT FOOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY.

SO AT THE END OF A CUL-DE-SAC, EVERYTHING IS REALLY SQUISHED IN. THERE ARE ACTUALLY THREE HOMES IN VARYING DIRECTIONS AT THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC, AND I SIT KIND OF DEAD CENTER OF THAT REAR . THE REASON WHY I POINT THIS OUT, AND YOU CAN SEE THE TWO ADJACENT HOMES, AND MINE IS HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. A GOOD CHUNK OF MY PROPERTY ACTUALLY EXTENDS OUT INTO THE POND AND THIS IS ALL BULK HEADED SO THAT'S UNUSABLE PROPERTY FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. SO THIS IS ON THE LEFT, YOU'VE GOT THE EXISTING RESIDENCE AND WHAT WAS AN EXISTING STILL EXISTS. MY ASK IS FOR WHAT'S PROPOSED IN THE SUBJECT AREA IS AN ADDITIONAL TWO FEET TO THAT PATIO AND PART OF DOING THAT WOULD BE THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND IMAGES, A ROOFLINE THAT GOES OVER THAT PATIO SO THAT WE ACTUALLY CAN USE THE PROPERTY, USE THAT SPACE. RIGHT NOW IT'S EITHER WET OR DIRECTLY IN THE SUNSHINE BECAUSE THAT'S SOUTHERN EXPOSURE AND SO THAT'S THE INFORMATION THERE. THIS IS ALL WHAT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE ASSOCIATION. THIS IS REAR AND SIDE ELEVATION VIEWS OF THE PROPERTY. I WOULD DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE BOTTOM ONE, WHICH IS THE LARGER. THAT'S THE GABLE ROOFLINE AND THE KIND OF SCREENED IN AREA THAT IT WOULD PRODUCE. THIS IS BLURRY AS IT IS, I'M SORRY, IS THE APPROVAL FROM SAWGRASS ASSOCIATION. I HAD THIS APPROVAL ORIGINALLY BACK, OH, NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER OF 24, AND JUST KIND OF BEEN PING-PONG IN THE ROUND BETWEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO NAVIGATE, HOW TO GET INTO THIS SECTION. WE WERE IN FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW AND GOT THROUGH A PORTION OF IT, AND THEN HELD UP BECAUSE OF A DRAINAGE EASEMENT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY ON THE PROPERTY. THIS IS FROM THE ASSOCIATION, THIS IS GIVING UP THAT DRAINAGE EASEMENT THAT WAS ON THE ORIGINAL SURVEY AND WAS IN THIS SECTION OF THE PROPERTY. SO SAWGRASS ASSOCIATION DEVELOPMENT HAS GIVEN UP THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT THAT'S THERE AND ALSO APPROVED THE ADDITIONAL TWO FEET. SO THAT'S JUST BACK TO THE BEGINNING.