[1. The County Attorney ARC will interview the candidates.]
[00:00:16]
ST. JOHNS COUNTY COUNTY ATTORNEY POSITION. I BELIEVE WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM OUR SEARCH COORDINATOR, MAGGIE, WHO WILL KICK US OFF.
>> DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE LIVE, SO SHE'S JUST CHECKING TO MAKE SURE.
>> GOOD MORNING, COMMITTEE. SO, I HAVE PROVIDED WITH YOU THIS MORNING A PACKET FOR YOU TO REVIEW. ON THE FIRST PAGE IS THE AGENDA, WHICH I DO HAVE PULLED UP HERE.
THIS IS OUR AGENDA FOR THE INTERVIEWS TODAY.
THE CANDIDATES WERE ADVISED TO COME 30 MINUTES PRIOR TO THEIR SCHEDULED INTERVIEW, AND WE HAVE TWO OF THE FIRST CANDIDATES ARE HERE.
MICHAEL RODRIGUEZ, AS WELL AS RICHARD BARFIELD.
THEY ARE BEING HELD IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE, AND WE ARE HAVING LOVELY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.
SO, I WILL BE ESCORTING THE CANDIDATES TO AND FROM THIS ROOM IN ANTICIPATION FOR THEIR INTERVIEWS. WE DO HAVE A SCHEDULED LUNCH BREAK, SO IN THE INDUSTRY THAT I OPERATE IN, WHICH IS TALENT ACQUISITION, I ALWAYS RECOMMEND THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT HIRE, AND YOU GUYS HAVE INTERVIEW QUESTIONS THAT ARE THERE, SO AS YOU'RE ASKING THE QUESTIONS, IF YOU'RE GETTING THAT GOOD INFORMATION FROM THE CANDIDATES, IT'S OKAY IF WE RUN OVER. IT'S OKAY IF SOME ARE A LITTLE BIT SHORT. THE INTERVIEW SCHEDULE IS FLUID. AND SO, WE DO HAVE TIME ALLOCATED TO MAKE UP FOR THAT. I BELIEVE THE COMMITTEE DISCUSSED IN THEIR LAST MEETING ABOUT DISCUSSING EACH CANDIDATE AFTER THE INTERVIEW. I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE THAT WHILE IT'S FRESH. BUT OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, I'LL DEFER TO THE COMMITTEE REGARDING THAT. YOU DO HAVE THE INTERVIEW QUESTIONS IN YOUR PACKET.
I DO WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT ANY NOTES THAT YOU DO TAKE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS ELIGIBLE. ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME REGARDING THE SCHEDULE?
>> SO, IF I WRITE DOWN SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE, IT'S GOING OUT THERE. PEOPLE ARE ALREADY SAYING I WANT A RECORDS REQUEST OF HIS NOTES,
ALL RIGHT. >> SO, THE NOTES WILL BE COLLECTED AT THE END?
>> ALL RIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PACKETS, THE INTERVIEW SCHEDULE, OR THE SCHEDULE OF EVENTS FOR TODAY?
>> NO, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. I THINK WE'RE
READY. >> ARE YOU READY TO PROCEED WITH THE FIRST CANDIDATE?
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>> I'VE NEVER STOOD FOR AN INTERVIEW, BUT THIS IS KIND OF DIFFERENT. GOOD MORNING.
>> GOOD MORNING, SIR. >> GOOD MORNING.
>> WE'LL GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE OURSELVES.
WE'RE SO GLAD THAT YOU'RE HERE TODAY.
>> OKAY. >> I'M DESIREE WARNER, AND I'M THE DIRECTOR OF HR HERE TODAY, AND SO, PLEASED THAT YOU'RE HERE.
>> I'M COUNTY COMMISSIONER ANN TAYLOR, AND VERY NICE TO MEET YOU. THANK YOU FOR
COMING. >> MR. RODRIGUEZ, WELCOME.
I'M CLAY MURPHY, COUNTY COMMISSIONER ALSO HERE, AND EXCITED TO JUMP INTO THIS.
DO YOU MIND IF I -- IF I JUST KARATE CHOP HIM WITH THE FIRST ONE?
>> DO WE WANT TO MENTION THAT IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE SITTING, YOU CAN ALSO SIT.
OR STAND. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO
DO. >> WELL, I'LL STAND FOR NOW, BECAUSE I HAVE A TWO-AND-A-HALF- HOUR DRIVE AFTER THIS, SO I'LL CHERISH THE
STANDING FOR NOW. >> THERE YOU GO.
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOU, PERSONALLY. I'D LOVE TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU LIKE TO DO.
>> OKAY. WELL, I HAVE BEEN AN ATTORNEY NOW FOR -- DO THE MATH -- WOW.
28 YEARS. IT'S PROBABLY BY NOW, HALF OF MY CAREER HAS BEEN IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, AND HALF HAS BEEN IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS THAT I CHERISH, AND ALSO MAKES ME A A CANDIDATE FOR A POSITION IN GOVERNMENT. AND IT'S ONE THING THAT WAS ACTUALLY -- IT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION FROM FOLKS THAT I HAVE DEALT WITH IN IN I DON'T COME TO AN ISSUE WHEN I WORK -- WHEN REPRESENTING GOVERNMENTS, I DON'T COME TO AN ISSUE WITH WHAT I CAN PROBABLY CALL BUREAUCRATIC BLINDERS, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN SEATED AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE. I UNDERSTAND THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE APPLICANT THAT'S COMING FORWARD. I UNDERSTAND THE PRESSURES THAT THEY HAVE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I UNDERSTAND THE PRESSURES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS. SO, THAT MINDSET ALLOWS ME TO A RESOLUTION THE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BENEFIT BOTH AN APPLICANT, A RESIDENT, AS WELL AS THE GOVERNMENT. AND IT GETS -- IT MAKES THINGS WORK EASIER, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES YOU HEAR A LOT OF FRUSTRATION, WE CAN'T GET THINGS DONE WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE -- SOMETIMES IT'S BECAUSE IF YOU'VE BEEN IN GOVERNMENT YOUR WHOLE LIFE, YOU GET THOSE BUREAUCRATIC BLINDERS, AND I HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES WITH DEPARTMENTS BEFORE WHERE THEY SAY, WE CAN'T DO THAT. AND MY JOB IN ADVISING GOVERNMENTAL STAFF IS ALWAYS, NO, THERE IS A WAY WE CAN DO THIS.
A LOT OF TIMES, FOLKS GET STUCK IN THAT MINDSET OF I GOT TO GO TO A TO B TO C.
WE CAN GO TO A AND GET TO B. NOT NECESSARILY A STRAIGHT LINE. IT'S THAT EXPERIENCE BEING ON BOTH SIDES THAT HELPS ME TO GET THERE. THEN, LATELY, ONE OF THE -- I THINK THE ADVANTAGES THAT I HAVE HAD IS I'VE NOW BEEN ABLE TO WORK BOTH AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, I'VE WORKED FOR TWO DIFFERENT COUNTIES. I'VE ALSO WORKED FOR THREE DIFFERENT CITIES, SO I HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE OF BOTH WORKING IN THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL AS WELL AS THE COUNTY LEVEL. I WOULD LOVE TO RETURN TO WORK AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.
>> WELL, GOOD. THAT'S THE PERFECT SEGUE INTO MY NEXT QUESTION. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU CITED FOR LEAVING THE CITY OF POPKA WAS, I THINK, THE VERBIAGE WAS, PROTRACTED CONSTITUTIONAL CONFLICT BETWEEN THREE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. WOULD YOU MIND EXPOUNDING ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? AND KIND OF GIVING US THE FLAVOR OF THE CHALLENGE OF THAT.
>> WELL, THE APOPKA CITY CHARTER WAS UNIQUELY WRITTEN AND THEY'RE STILL UNDERGOING -- I'M JUST TAKING MY CELL PHONE OUT OF MY POCKET BECAUSE IT'S WEIGHING THERE. IT IS UNIQUELY WRITTEN, AND THEY'RE CURRENTLY UNDERGOING DEBATING TO AMEND THE CHARTER. THE WAY THEIR CHARTER WAS WRITTEN WHEN IT CAME TO THEIR CHARTER OFFICERS, AND THE CITIES HAS TWO CHARTER OFFICERS, THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CITY CLERK. APOPKA IS ALSO A STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT BUT IT'S NOT A TRADITIONAL STRONG MAYOR. I'M ORIGINALLY FROM SOUTH FLORIDA, AND I'M USED TO THE STRONG MAYOR FORMS, THE CITIES IN SOUTH FLORIDA, WHERE THE STRONG MAYOR ACTUALLY IS THE EXECUTIVE, AND AS THE EXECUTIVE, THE STRONG MAYOR ACTUALLY DOES NOT HAVE A VOTE ON THE CITY COUNCIL. IT'S ALMOST AS IF AN ADMINISTRATOR -- SO, THEREFORE, THE STRONG MAYOR CAN COMMUNICATE WITH THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS AND NOT BE IN VIOLATION OF THE SUNSHINE LAW.
HOWEVER, IN APOPKA, THE WAY THE CHARIOT
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CHARTER WAS WRITTEN, AND THIS WAS A VESTIGE OF THE FACT THAT APOPKA HAD A MAYOR WHO WAS IN POWER FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS AND WAS THE ARCHITECT OF THE CHARTER, SO THE STRONG MAYOR WAS A STRONG MAYOR BUT ALSO A VOTING MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL. SO, IT REALLY WAS A HAMSTRUNG OFFICE. SO, THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN WAS THAT IN ORDER TO REMOVE A CHARTER OFFICER, IT REQUIRED THE -- THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN WAS IT REQUIRED THE VOTE OF THE COMMISSION AND MAYOR.SO, THE INTERPRETATION WOULD BE IT'S AN EFFECTUAL VETO.
ONE COUNCIL MEMBER RAN THE CHALLENGE AND WAS DEFEATED BY THE MAYOR, LEFT.
ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER SUBSEQUENT TO THAT DECIDED TO RUN FOR STATE HOUSE, PREVAILED.
THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT RAN FOR MAYOR DECIDED TO RUN FOR THAT SEAT.
APOPKA IS ALL AT- LARGE, SO THERE ARE NO DISTRICTS.
THAT MEMBER RAN AND WON AND BECAME THE VICE MAYOR AND THEN IT WAS JUST CONSTANT INFIGHTING BETWEEN TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND THE DYNAMIC WAS THE -- YOUR 3-2 VOTING BLOCS SHIFTED, SO THE VOTING BLOC THEN SHIFTS TO A 3-2 MAJORITY AGAINST THE MAYOR, ÚAND THEN THE FIGHT WAS THIS 3- BLOC WANTS TO TRY TO BEGIN TO ELIMINATE DEPARTMENT HEADS. THEN, THERE WAS -- TARGET BECOMES, WELL, HOW DO WE STRIKE AGAINST THE MAYOR? WELL, LET'S GO AFTER THE CITY ATTORNEY.
THERE WAS A VOTE. THEY VOTED 3-2 TO TERMINATE MY POSITION. THE MAYOR VOTED AGAINST, AND HIS POSITION WAS, WELL, I VOTED AGAINST. THEREFORE, THE CITY ATTORNEY REMAINS. AND IT BECAME, THEN, WE HAD AN ISSUE WHERE THEN HE'S -- THEY WANTED -- I THINK IT WAS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR TO WHAT I READ OF WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE. WE HAD THE ONE COMMISSIONER THAT SAID, I WANT TO FILE A LAWSUIT.
THE QUESTIONS THEN WERE, WELL, WHO IS INVOLVED IN FUNDING THE LAWSUIT? IT'S NOT THE CITY BECAUSE YOU'RE -- WHO IS THE PLAINTIFFS? WHO ARE THE DEFENDANTS? IS IT A COMMISSIONER AND I -- I WASN'T ASKED TO OPINE. MY OPINION WOULD BE THAT'S A ONE COMMISSIONER HAS TO THEN BRING AN ACTION IN HIS PERSONAL
RIGHT. >> AGAINST THE CITY TO EITHER REQUEST A DECLARATORY ACTION FROM THE COURTS.
BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY THE COMMISSIONER.
THE COMMISSIONER THEN WANTED TO DEMAND FOR A LEGAL OPINION FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.
HOWEVER, I DID OPINE ON THAT MATTER. NO, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DOES NOT RENDER LEGAL OPINIONS ON QUESTIONS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT MATTERS, AND THIS WAS AN INTERPRETATION OF THE CITY'S CHARTER. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, ON THEIR WEBSITE, SAYS, WE DO NOT OPINE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT
INTERPRETATION. >> WAS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THIS WAS A POLITICALLY- MOTIVATED AND NOT -- WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR? POLITICALLY MOTIVATED AND NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR ABILITIES TO MAKE A DECISION FOR THE COUNCIL?
>> YES, I BELIEVE IT WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.
>> THERE WAS -- YES. WITHOUT FURTHER EXPOUNDING, IT WAS -- THERE WAS POLITICAL MOTIVATION, AND AT THAT -- IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE DURING CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS -- AND IT WAS BROADCAST. I'M NOT -- THERE'S NOT -- I'M NOT HIDING ANYTHING. WHEN A COMMISSIONER WOULD STATE SOMETHING THAT WAS JUST -- I'D GIVE AN OPINION, HE'D BLURT OUT, "I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU ANYMORE.
I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY ANYMORE.
" AT THAT POINT, I REALIZED, THIS IS BECOMING A TENUOUS POSITION WHERE I DID NOT BELIEVE I COULD ETHICALLY PROVIDE LEGAL COUNSEL TO A CITY COUNCIL THAT'S GOING TO OPENLY DEFY MY ADVICE.
SO, AT THAT POINT, I THOUGHT THE BEST I COULD DO RIGHT HERE IN ORDER TO AVOID HAVING THIS BE PROTRACTED WAS TO JUST RESIGN.
>> AND SEVERAL MONTHS LATER, HE DECIDED NOT TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.
LET ME PASS THE MIC OVER TO ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO ASK A QUESTION.
>> YEAH. I WOULD LOVE TO. CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW, PARTICULARLY IN LAND USE, PROCUREMENT AND ENVIRONMENTAL LAW? AND THEN ALSO, HOW HAS YOUR EXPERIENCE PREPARED YOU FOR THE ROLE OF COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY?
>> LAND USE IS MY EXPERTISE. SPECIFICALLY IN EACH GOVERNMENTAL PRACTICE I'VE BEEN.
FRESH OUT OF LAW SCHOOL, I WAS AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY
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FOR MARTIN COUNTY AND IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT MARTIN COUNTY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PREEMINENT LAND USE CASES COMING FROM THE APPELLATE COURTS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, THEY COME OUT OF MARTIN COUNTY.I WAS THERE FOR THE PINE CREST LAKES CASE, THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT WERE DEMOLISHED FOR VIOLATING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. I WAS THERE FOR THOSE. I WORKED WITH DEVELOPMENT REVIEW MANAGERS FOR MARTIN COUNTY. I ALSO DID LAND USE RELATED LITIGATION FOR MARTIN COUNTY. IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, I REPRESENTED DEVELOPERS BEFORE CITIES AND COUNTIES THROUGHOUT SOUTH FLORIDA. BROWARD, PALM BEACH, DADE COUNTY AS WELL, IN HAVING DEVELOPMENTS. SO, I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE IN LAND USE FOR YEARS UNTIL THEN RETURNING BACK TO PUBLIC PRACTICE WHEN I CAME BACK IN 2016 TO VELUTIA COUNTY AND I WAS IN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHICH IS LARGER THAN THE OFFICE HERE, BECAUSE THEY HANDLE EVERYTHING IN-HOUSE. I THINK WE HAD 16 COUNTY ATTORNEYS.
>> AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS OFFICE THERE IS SPLIT INTO THREE DEPARTMENS. I WAS IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE DEPARTMENT, AND WE HANDLED ALL LAND USE, BUILDING, PUBLIC WORKS. OUR ADMINISTRATIVE DEPARTMENT WROTE ALL OF THE ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS, SO I HANDLED LAND USE. SO, I WAS THE COUNSEL FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. IT'S PLDC IS WHAT IT'S CALLED.
AS WELL AS THE CONSTRUCTION LICENSING AND CONSTRUCTION BOARD OF APPEALS FOR VELUTIA.
I WAS THE ATTORNEY FOR THE -- WHAT DID WE -- WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A FORMAL NAME, BUT I WORKED WITH OUR DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY ON ALL OF THE BEACH ÚM SO I HANDLED THE INCIDENTAL TAKE PERMIT FOR THE COUNTY, FOR THE BEACH DRIVING AND THE SEA TURTLE. SO, WE HAD A MONTHLY -- OUR SEA TURTLE TASK FORCE IN ORDER FOR US TO -- THAT WAS OUR FEDERAL PERMITS TO ALLOW FOR BEACH DRIVING IN THE COUNTY, IN WHICH WE HAD TO HAVE MONTHLY MEETINGS TO SURVEY THE AMOUNT OF TURTLE NESTS AND ANY INCIDENTS WE HAD. THAT WAS OUR SETTLING, WHICH THAT PERMIT IS UP FOR RENEWAL SOON. SO, THOSE ARE THE ENVIRONMENTAL MATTERS I HANDLED AS WELL.
I'M ALSO A GRADUATE OF VERMONT LAW SCHOOL, WHICH IS ONE OF THE NATION'S PREEMINENT ENVIRONMENTAL LAW SCHOOLS. SO, I HAVE THAT BACKGROUND IN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW.
>> AND THEN, CITY ATTORNEY IN APOPKA. IT WAS A ONE- MAN SHOP. IT WAS ME BY MYSELF, SO I HANDLED EVERYTHING FOR THE CITY.
I HANDLED PLANNING AND ZONING, PROCUREMENT AND PERSONNEL, AND WHAT ELSE? THE ONLY THING -- IT WAS LITIGATION.
THE WORKERS COMPENSATION AND PERSONAL INJURIES, THOSE WERE FARMED OUT TO THE FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES.
AND IN PALM BAY, I'M THE CHIEF DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY, SO I'M NUMBER TWO, BUT MY DEPARTMENTS ARE GROWTH MANAGEMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS AND UTILITIES AND BUILDING.
AND I HANDLE THE -- I'M THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD COUNCIL MEMBER AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, I HAVE TO DO THE CITY OF PALM BAY IS PLANNING A ZONING BOARD MEETING TONIGHT.
SO, THAT'S WHY I HAVE THAT NICE LONG DRIVE TONIGHT TO GET BACK TO HANDLE THAT BOARD MEETING.
I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE. CITY OF PALM BAY, AS WELL AS THE CITY OF APOPKA, ARE AREAS WHERE -- APOPKA IS THE SECOND LARGEST CITY IN ORANGE COUNTY.
THE RECENTLY COMPLETED WESTERN BELTWAY OF ORANGE COUNTY HAS BEEN AN IMPETUS FOR GROWTH.
SO, IT IS CONSTANT DEVELOPMENT AND REVIEW.
WE HAVE CONSTANT DEVELOPMENT PLANS, AND PALM BAY IS THE SAME.
IT'S THE LARGEST CITY IN BREVARD COUNTY. ON A WEEKLY BASIS, WE HAVE THREE OR FOUR PROJECTS WE ARE WORKING AMENDING DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, GETTING OUR DEVELOPMENT PLANS.
WE JUST COMPLETED THE COMPLETE REWRITE, I HELPED ASSIST, THE COMPLETE REWRITE OF OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IN PALM BAY AND NOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH WHAT WE CALL OUR GLITCH AMENDMENTS. WE'RE BEGINNING TO NOTICE WHERE THINGS AREN'T NECESSARILY WORKING, SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND AMENDING AND CLEANING UP UP PROCESS. WE DID THAT IN APOPKA.
APOPKA AMENDED THEIR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE RIGHT BEFORE I GOT THERE, AND WE WERE, ON A MONTHLY BASIS, I WORKED WITH THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT TO CLEAN UP THOSE ISSUES. SO, LAND USE IS REALLY MY MAIN SPECIALTY. BUT I'VE WORKED IN OTHER AREAS.
I MEAN, I'M FAMILIAR WITH -- IN A BIG CHUNK DURING THE REAL ESTATE DOWNTURN, I WAS IN A -- WHEN I WAS ININ PRACTICE, I WAS IN A LITIGATION AREA. ACTUALLY, BECAUSE I DID LITIGATION FOR MARTIN COUNTY AT A YOUNG AGE, I WAS DRAFTED
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TO ASSIST DURING THE FORECLOSURE CRISIS.I WAS DOING FORECLOSURES IN WHICH I HAVE THE NOTABLE DISTINCTION OF HEARING AND TRYING CASES, PHYSICALLY, IN 40 OF THE STATE'S 67 COURTHOUSES.
I HAVE TRAVELED -- IRONICALLY, I WAS NEVER HERE IN THIS COURTHOUSE IN ST. JOHNS. I ALWAYS DID ST. JOHNS BY TELEPHONE. BUT I'VE TRAVELED ALMOST THE ENTIRE STATE OF FLORIDA. SO, I HAVE THAT BACKGROUND. BUT IN PREPARING TO BE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE IN THE SUBJECT MATTER AND THEN TO ACTUALLY RUN THE OFFICE, WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, I RAN THE FLORIDA OFFICE OF A NATIONAL LAW FIRM WHEN I WAS DOING THE FORECLOSURE PRACTICE.
I HAD 12 ASSOCIATE ATTORNEYS, WHO I HAD TO SUPERVISE THROUGH TWO OFFICES. OUR OFFICE IN SOUTH FLORIDA AS WELL AS OUR OFFICE IN TAMPA. IN WHICH I SUPERVISED TWO ATTORNEYS. SO, I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE IN SUPERVISING ATTORNEYS AND SUPERVISING AN OFFICE OF STAFF AS WELL. SO, THAT'S AN EXPERIENCE THAT I DO HAVE AND WILL BE ABLE TO BRING TO THIS OFFICE.
>> ALL RIGHT. SO, NEXT QUESTION WE HAVE.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU'VE SUCCESSFULLY HANDLED THE COORDINATION OF OUTSIDE COUNSEL IN PREVIOUS ROLES? AND WHAT STEPS DO YOU TAKE TO ENSURE THE COUNTY'S INTERESTS ARE WELL REPRESENTED?
>> THE MOST COORDINATING WAS IN APOPKA WHEN WE REALLY -- THAT WAS IN HANDLING ALL OF OUR WORKERS COMPENSATION AS WELL AS OUR LITIGATION MATTERS IN WORKING WITH THE FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES.
MOST OF THE TIME, IT WAS HAVING -- MAKING SURE OUR COUNSEL PROVIDED US WITH REGULAR UPDATES, MAKING SURE THAT OUR CITY COUNCIL WAS AWARE OF WHO OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL WERE. I WANTED THEM TO MEET.
I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD A FACE AND THAT THEY WERE BRIEFED.
OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL APPEARED IN OUR -- IF I HAD EXECUTIVE SESSIONS, THEY WERE THERE. THEY MADE THE PRESENTATIONS.
THEY HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM.
WE DID HAVE -- THE BENEFIT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH COUNSEL THAT COMES THROUGH THE, AT LEAST WITH THE LEAGUE OF CITIES, THAT'S COUNSEL THAT IS BEING PAID FOR THROUGH THE INSURANCE POLICY, SO THERE ISN'T A QUESTION OF WHAT COSTS ARE DOING. SO, THAT COORDINATION WAS DIFFERENT. THERE WASN'T NECESSARILY A CASE WHERE I WAS NEEDED TO HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE OF OUR INSURANCE POLICY WHERE IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS COMING OUT OF OUR LEGAL BUDGET OR WHERE I NEEDED TO HIRE OUTSIDE COUNSEL THAT WAS NEEDED -- WHERE IT WAS AN AREA OF EXPERTISE THAT WAS NOT PREVALENT IN OUR OFFICE. IN APOPKA, I WAS THE OFFICE, SO -- BUT IT WOULD BE, IN THE CASE, IF OUTSIDE COUNSEL WAS NECESSARY IN AN AREA OF EXPERTISE, THAT WAS OUTSIDE OF SOMETHING OR SOMETHING THAT'S OUTSIDE OF, IN THIS CASE, I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK OUTSIDE OF TURN WHETHER -- IF THIS COUNTY IS PART OF A RISK POOL OR AN AREA WHERE I WOULD NEED TO GO AND HIRE SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY FOR SUBJECT MATTER.
I WOULD BE REALLY WARY OF THE COSTS, AND I WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSION IS AWARE OF THE COSTS AND HAVE THEM BE PARTNERS IN KNOWING THAT I DON'T WANT IT TO GET TOO FAR, AND IF THINGS COME UP TO HAVE THEM BE AWARE OF THOSE, AND YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T GET SURPRISED, AND I DON'T WANT TO -- I WANT TO BE A GOOD STEWARD OF THE TAXPAYERS' MONEY IN PROVIDING THE PROPER LEGAL SERVICES FOR THE COUNTY.
BUT ALSO, I WANT TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, ZEALOUS REPRESENTATION ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTY IF IT IS AN ISSUE THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE INTERESTS OF THE COUNTY.
>> CAN I ASK A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO THAT? IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR 20- SOMETHING YEARS, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU DIRECTLY -- I GUESS, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU SUPERVISED AT ONE TIME? WHAT'S THE BIGGEST POOL OF ATTORNEYS YOU'VE SUPERVISED? I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT APOPKA BEING A ONE-STOP SHOP, BUT DID YOU HAVE OTHER ATTORNEYS IN THESE OTHER STOPS IN YOUR CAREER?
>> WELL, I WAS -- I DIDN'T DIRECTLY SUPERVISE ANY OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENTS BECAUSE I WAS AN ASSISTANT, BOTH ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY, ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY AND NOW I'M THE -- I'M A DEPUTY, SO I DON'T DIRECTLY SUPERVISE THE TWO ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEYS IN PALM BAY. I SOMEWHAT SHARE THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY IN PALM BAY BUT AS THE MANAGING PARTNER AT THE LAW FIRM I WAS AT FROM 2012 TO 2015, ON A ROTATING
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BASIS, AT LEAST 14 ASSOCIATE ATTORNEYS THAT I DID DIRECTLY SUPERVISE. MANAGING THEIR CASE LOADS, MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE ON TOP AND MOST OF THE TIME REVIEWING THEIR PLEADINGS, MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS -- BASICALLY RUNNING THE SHIP. AND THAT WAS A HIGH- VOLUME MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE PRACTICE, STATEWIDE. ON AVERAGE, I HAD -- I MEAN, WHEN I LOOK BACK, IT WAS CRAZY.ON AVERAGE, I HAD, AS MY RESPONSIBILITY, APPROXIMATELY 1,000 CASE FILES THAT WERE MY RESPONSIBILITY. AMONG THOSE THOUSAND, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, SPREAD AMONG THE 14 ASSOCIATE ATTORNEYS.
>> I WAS ON CALL -- IT WAS BASICALLY A JOB WHERE I WAS ON CALL 24/7, ANSWERING EMAILS AT 1:30 IN THE MORNING AFTER DONE COACHING MY SON'S LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES, RETURNING HOME AND THEN POWERING UP MY LAPTOP AND WORKING UNTIL 1:30 IN THE MORNING.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT. >> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> WE JUST GOING TO ROTATE? AM I NEXT?
>> ST. JOHNS COUNTY, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS EXPECTED TO COLLABORATE CLOSELY WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND OTHER COUNTY OFFICIALS.
HOW DO YOU APPROACH BUILDING EFFECTIVE WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS?
>> WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO -- AND THIS IS WHAT I DID IN APOPKA, AND I WAS ADAMANT ABOUT THIS. AND I'M PROUD THAT FOUR OF THE FIVE COMMISSIONERS HEEDED MY ADVICE. UNFORTUNATELY, THE ONE COMMISSIONER WHO HAD THE POLITICAL PROBLEMS WAS THE ONE WHO DIDN'T. I STRESSED ALWAYS, I HAD AN OPEN DOOR POLICY.
COME INTO MY OFFICE. I'M NEVER GOING TO SHY AWAY. COME IN, SIT DOWN, LET'S TALK OVER ISSUES. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, COME IN. I LEARNED THAT FROM MY TIME AT THE VALUCIA COUNTY ATTORNEYS OFFICE. IT'S A WEIRD ONE. THEY ARE COUNTY COUNCIL MEMBERS.
THEY WOULD WALK INTO OUR OFFICES, SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS ISSUES THEY WANTED ADDRESSED, AND WE WOULD DISCUSS THESE -- DISCUSS THOSE ISSUES. THEY WERE ALWAYS ALLOWED. AND I HAD -- AND WE WERE -- NO PROBLEMS. IT WAS AN OPEN DOOR POLICY.
DIDN'T HAVE TO CALL. KNOCK ON MY DOOR.
MY OFFICE IS ALWAYS OPEN TO ANY COMMISSIONER TO COME IN AND DISCUSS. SO, THAT WAS ALWAYS MY POSITION.
I LIKE TO HAVE MEETINGS. I WAS ALWAYS -- I WANTED TO BE PRESENT AT EVERY, YOU KNOW, PREP MEETINGS BEFORE THE COUNSEL MEETINGS TO SIT DOWN, GOING OVER THE AGENDAS, GOING INTO DETAILS, GOING OVER EVERY ISSUE ON THE AGENDA.
I DID THOSE -- SAT IN ON THOSE IN VOLUSIA.
OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY MADE SURE THAT AT LEAST BOTH DEPUTIES WERE THERE, AND IF THE ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY WHO HAD THAT MATTER WAS RESPONSIBLE, THAT PERSON SAT DOWN THERE TOO.
TO GO OVER THE ISSUES WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBER TO MAKE SURE THEIR ISSUES WERE ANSWERED AND PREPARED SO THAT NOTHING CAME UP AS A SURPRISE WHEN IT CAME TO THE COUNCIL MEETING.
IT WAS BASICALLY, BY THE TIME YOU'RE HERE, AT YOUR COUNCIL MEETING, YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN HASHED OUT AND DISCUSSED, AND YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION IN FRONT OF YOU TO MAKE YOUR DECISION BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE. SO, THAT'S MY POLICY.
IT'S OPEN DOOR. IT IS -- I WILL ALWAYS, ALWAYS MAKE TIME FOR EACH ELECTED OFFICIAL TO COME INTO MY OFFICE AND ASK A QUESTION, AND I WILL ALWAYS DISCUSS THOSE LEGAL MATTERS. ONE OF THE THINGS I DO, AND I MAKE A BRIGHT LINE, AND I JUST LEARNED THIS FROM THE -- AND I -- IT'S FROM EXPERIENCE AND LEARNING FROM MY MISTAKES. I DRAW A BRIGHT LINE.
I PROVIDE LEGAL COUNSEL. I DO NOT PROVIDE POLITICAL COUNSEL. IT IS NOT MY JOB TO PROVIDE ANY TYPE OF POLITICAL ADVICE, BECAUSE YOU DON'T PAY ME FOR -- YOU DON'T PAY ME FOR POLITICAL ADVICE. YOU PAY ME TO PROVIDE YOU WITH LEGAL ADVICE.
IF IT BECOMES A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL FEEDBACK, POLITICAL BLOWBACK, I WILL SAY, THAT'S A POLITICAL QUESTION, THAT'S A POLITICAL MATTER. AND THAT'S NOT MY ROLE.
THAT'S NOT MY JOB. THAT'S THE ONLY TIME I WILL BE BLUNT WITH AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
>> GREAT. THANK YOU. WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS FOR WORK HOURS? FULL-TIME HERE AT THE COUNTY, PART-TIME, WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?
>> I EXPECT IT'S A FULL- TIME JOB, AND FULL- TIME HERE AND MY WORK ETHIC IS SUCH THAT I ALSO DON'T -- I DON'T -- I
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DON'T NECESSARILY SHUT OFF WHEN I'M NOT HERE.IF A QUESTION ARISES, MY CELL PHONE IS ON FOR ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL.
I WANT TO SAY ANY OF YOU, BUT I KNOW THERE'S THREE OTHER OF YOU, AND I DON'T WANT TO IGNORE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE. BUT ANY OF YOU TO GIVE ME A CALL ON A, YOU KNOW, THURSDAY AT 8:00 IF YOU'VE GOT A QUESTION, AND MY PHONE RINGS, I'M GOING TO PICK IT UP.
OR MY OTHER POLICY, AND I'VE TOLD -- IF I DON'T PICK IT UP, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A RETURN CALL FROM ME WITHIN AT LEAST AN HOUR TO TWO HOURS.
>> SO, THAT'S -- THERE'S ACCESSIBILITY IS WHAT -- I MEAN, I CURRENTLY WORK AN HOUR AND A HALF FROM PALM BAY. I LIVE IN DELAND AND COMMUTE TO PALM BAY. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN I DO WORK REMOTELY, BUT WHEN I'M REMOTE, I'M IN FULL ACCESS VIA EMAIL BUT AS WELL AS CELL PHONE.
I'VE BEEN TOLD BY MY FOLKS IN THE OFFICE, WHEN YOU'RE NOT HERE, YOU'RE THE ONLY PERSON THAT WE KNOW WE STILL CAN REACH YOU.
YOU'RE STILL HERE, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE PHYSICALLY NOT HERE. THAT'S PROBABLY -- I CALL IT MY PTSD FROM MY FORECLOSURE DAYS. I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO GO OFF THE GRID FROM THE FIRM I WORKED AT. IT WAS THE GRIND OF A LARGE NATIONAL FIRM. I TOLD A PARTNER ONCE, I'M GOING TO GO ON VACATION, GO OFF THE GRID, AND HE SAID, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO, AND I WAS CHECKING EMAILS IN SEDONA, ARIZONA, AT 4:30 IN THE MORNING WITH JET LAG BECAUSE I HAD TO. SO, THAT'S STILL WITH
ME. >> I JUST HAD ANOTHER ONE I THOUGHT OF, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN COUNTIES ALL OVER THE STATE.
DO YOU INTEND TO ALSO WORK FOR OTHER COUNTIES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME WITH ST. JOHNS?
>> NO, IF I'M THE COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ST. JOHNS, I'M THE COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ST.
JOHNS. I'M NOT -- I'M NOT A CONTRACT ATTORNEY. I INTEND TO BE THE COUNTY EMPLOYEE. I'M AN IN- HOUSE -- I INTEND TO BE AN IN-HOUSE ATTORNEY.
>> GREAT. >> YEAH, LET ME JUST ASK A FOLLOW-UP. I NOTICED THAT YOU'RE COMMUTING.
IT'S A WHOLE LOT CLOSER FROM HERE TO DELAND THAN IT IS TO PALM BAY.
ARE YOU PLANNING ON MAINTAINING
THAT? >> FOR THE TIME BEING, JUST BECAUSE IT'S MY WIFE -- IT'S JUST EASIER.
HOWEVER, IF TIME WERE TO PROGRESS, I WOULD BE OPEN TO COMING TO MOVING TO ST. JOHNS.
BUT THE -- THE DISTANCE IS NOT A PROBLEM, AND I TELL FOLKS --
>> I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
THE DISTANCE. >> I LIVED IN SOUTH FLORIDA, SO I WORKED IN PALM BEACH AND DROVE TO FT.
LAUDERDALE AND MIAMI. WHEN I CAME UP THIS MORNING, I THOUGHT, THIS IS A LOT CLOSER THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE.
>> I CAN ASK ABOUT HIS FAMILY, RIGHT?
>> YOU CANNOT. NO, SIR, YOU CANNOT.
>> OKAY. THAT'S WHY I ASKED FIRST.
I WANTED TO SEE IF YOU WERE AN EMPTY NESTER YET, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THAT.
>> I JUST WANT TO GO BACK AGAIN TO THE SUPERVISORY ROLE.
SO, AS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, RESPONSIBILITY FOR MANAGING DAY-TO- DAY OPERATIONS OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, HOW DO YOU ENSURE EFFECTIVE CASE MANAGEMENT, STAFF ACCOUNTABILITY AND OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY IN A BUSY LEGAL OFFICE?
>> I THINK I WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO -- I'D LOOK AT EMULATING THE STRUCTURE AND THE WAY WE HAD IT IN VOLUSIA.
WHICH WAS JUST ORGANIZING BY -- WE HAD A GOOD STRUCTURE IN EACH DEPARTMENT AND SUBJECT MATTER, AND THEN EACH ONE OF US HAD TO THEN KEEP TRACK OF, WHAT ARE OUR CASES? WE ALL HAD A SPREADSHEET WE HAD, AND WE HAD A CHECKLIST, AND WE HAD TO UPDATE IT EVERY MONTH TO SHOW WHERE KIND OF A PROGRESS REPORT. WE ALL HAD TO REPORT OUR PROGRESS EVERY -- I THINK IT WAS QUARTERLY. WE HAD TO REPORT OUR PROGRESS.
AND THEN, IT'S SIMILAR TO TODAY. AND I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING BEING -- HAVING BEEN ONE OF THE THINGS I'D WANT TO BRING NOW TO A COUNTY ATTORNEY POSITION, I'VE REALLY BEEN A SUBORDINATE FOR A LONG TIME, AND WHEN I HAD THE TOP JOB, I WAS THE ONLY MAN THERE.
I DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY REPORTING TO ME.
BUT I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT HAS TO BE KEPT ABREAST OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE DEPARTMENT. AND THAT PERSON CANNOT BE BLINDSIDED BY THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON THAT THEIR SUBORDINATES ARE DOING AND NOT BEING TOLD BECAUSE, UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN THAT OCCURS, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS TO RESPOND TO YOU GUYS.
[00:35:01]
AND IF THEIR STAFF IS DOING SOMETHING, AND THEN I'M NOT ABREAST OF WHAT'S GOING ON, AND I AM CAUGHT FLAT- FOOTED TO YOU GUYS, IT MAKES ME LOOK BAD.AND THEN -- AND I COULD HAVE CUT IT OFF IF SOMEBODY BELOW ME WOULD HAVE KEPT ME INFORMED OF THE SITUATION.
AND UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S ON ME.
WHAT MY SUBORDINATES ARE DOING. IT'S NOT ON YOU, AND IT'S NOT ON THEM.
THAT'S ON ME. IT'S UP TO ME AS THE SUPERVISOR TO BE KEPT ABREAST OF WHAT THE SUBORDINATES ARE DOING AND TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS A PROPER AVENUE OF COMMUNICATION GOING UP THE CHAIN TO KEEP THE DEPARTMENT ABREAST. SO, I WOULD WANT TO KEEP THOSE LEVELS OF COMMUNICATION. SO, ORGANIZE IT BY SUBJECT MATTER, BY WHAT DEPARTMENTS. WE ARE -- AND CURRENTLY IN PALM BAY, WE'RE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT A FILE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, WHICH WILL -- OUR CITY ATTORNEY WILL HAVE ACCESS TO, TO SEE WHERE WE ARE ON MATTERS.
WE CURRENTLY JUST HAVE BASES OF MEMORANDUMS AND UPDATES THAT WE GIVE ON WHAT OUR CASE LOAD Ú BUT IT'S THE -- I THINK IT'S THE PROPER LEVEL OF COMMUNICATION SO THAT THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON SO THAT I CAN EFFECTUALLY COMMUNICATE WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSION AS TO WHAT THE DEPARTMENT IS DOING SO THAT NEITHER -- NOBODY IS CAUGHT FLAT-FOOTED, AND BLINDSIDED BY THAT. THAT'S IMPORTANT.
>> GIVEN THAT ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING COUNTIES IN THE U.S. , HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON MAINTAINING A BALANCE BETWEEN LEGAL COMPLIANCE AND GROWTH, ESPECIALLY IN LAND USE? THIS IS YOUR SPECIALTY.
AND UTILITIES? AND I GUESS THE QUESTION THAT I REALLY WANT OUT OF THIS IS, HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE ME, SEEKING TO DENY AN APPLICATION?
>> WHEN IT COMES TO APPLICATIONS, ANY DENIALS, WHAT I ALWAYS ADVISE IS, LOOK, IF AN APPLICATION COMES FORWARD, YOUR DECISION ON AN APPLICATION, SAY, IT'S FOR A SITE PLAN, FOR REZONING, IT'S A QUASI- JUDICIAL MATTER, AND YOUR DECISION HAS TO BE BASED ON COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
SO, THEREFORE, WHATEVER YOUR DECISION IS, HAS THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SUPPORT YOUR DECISION ON, IS IT COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE? IS THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BASE THE REASONS WHY YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICATION IN FRONT OF YOU IS, YOU KNOW, CONSISTENT OR PROPER REASONING FOR SUCH A DECISION? AS LONG AS THAT DECISION IS BASED ON COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, THEN I CAN, AS THE ATTORNEY, SUPPORT THAT DECISION AND DEFEND THAT DECISION IF CHALLENGED FORWARD. SO, THAT'S MY ADVICE, AND THAT'S THE ADVICE I'VE ALWAYS GIVEN TO EVERY BODY WHEN PRESENTED WITH THAT ADVICE. SO, IT REALLY IS ONE OF THE -- I ALWAYS HARKEN BACK, EVERY TIME I'M SOMETIMES ASKED, OUR FIRST DAYS IN LAW SCHOOL, IF YOU TAKE AWAY ANYTHING FROM YOUR YEARS IN LAW SCHOOL, THE ANSWER TO ANYTHING IS, IT DEPENDS. BUT IT'S ALWAYS YOUR DECISION MUST BE BASED ON COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AND HAS TO BE SUPPORTED BY SUCH.
SO, I DON'T ASK YOU TO -- YOU CAN'T JUST -- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DECIDE ON SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU FEEL IT, BUT --
>> CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO DENY A REQUEST FOR AA DEVELOPMENT, A LARGE DEVELOPMENT IN A PLACE LIKE ST. JOHNS COUNTY?
>> IF A TRAFFIC STUDY IS PRESENTED BY SOMEBODY THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S GOING TO CAUSE THE ROADS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FAIL.
IF THE -- IF A PROPER STUDY IS SHOWN THAT YOUR UTILITIES WILL HAVE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
IF YOU HAVE PROPER CONTRADICTORY -- IT WOULD BE PROPER CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE, PROPER EXPERT CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE, THAT WOULD CONSTITUTE COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.
SO, THE COURTS HAVE SHOWN THAT PUBLIC TESTIMONY IS NOT DEEMED COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE EYES OF THE COURTS. NOW, COMPETING, YOU KNOW, EXPERT TESTIMONY, IF THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT IT, YOU KNOW, IF CHALLENGED, THE COURTS AREN'T GOING TO SUBSTITUTE THEIR JUDGMENT FOR YOURS.
[00:40:03]
SO, THAT'S THE KEY. WHEN YOU'VE GOT A PRESENTATION, YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING PRESENTED BEFORE YOU THAT WILL BE, YOU KNOW, THINK OF IT AS YOU'RE IN A COURTROOM, AND YOU WANT TO HAVE THE EVIDENCE. SOMEONE'S GOING TO PRESENT YOU EVIDENCE A, AND THEN ANOTHER -- YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT EVIDENCE B THAT IS GOING TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE THAT IS REASONABLE CONTRADICTORY EVIDENCE, NOT SOMETHING COMPLETELY OUT OF LEFT FIELD OR UNREASONABLE, BUT THAT WILL SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO CAUSE A PROBLEM.AND YOU KNOW, AND YOU CAN CONCLUDE -- YOU CAN BASE YOUR CONCLUSION ON SUCH EVIDENCE.
SO, THAT WOULD BE THE CASE. SO, IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT SAYS, NO, IT WON'T RAISE, BUT SOMEONE SAYS, OUR CURRENT CALCULATIONS BASED ON THIS GROWTH AND THIS SHOW IT TO BE THIS, WELL, THAT COULD BE ENOUGH. THAT COULD BE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO SAY, WELL, THIS GUY'S -- THIS STUDY TELLS ME THIS.
I HAVE WORRIES ABOUT THIS. THEREFORE, I'M, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE CASE, AS OPPOSED TO, NO, I HAVE -- YOU CAN'T MAKE THAT I HAVE 100 NEIGHBORS THAT ARE UPSET.
THAT WILL RAISE PROBLEMS MOVING FORWARD, WHEREAS, DO WE HAVE A PROPER BASIS FOR SUCH A DENIAL? WAS THE CLAMOR OF THE NEIGHBORS, IS THAT BASED ON COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO DENY AN APPROVAL AS OPPOSED TO, NO, THE CITY SHOWED THAT THERE WAS TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT SHOWED THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE FAILURES OR ERRORS. SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE.
THAT WOULD BE ONE HYPOTHETICAL.
>> SO, ACTUALLY, JUST TO CONTINUE ON WITH THAT, BECAUSE OUR COUNTY WILL -- WE HAVE A DEPARTMENT, AND SO THEY HAVE THE TRANSPORTATION ANALYSIS.
WOULD THAT BE SUFFICIENT, IN YOUR OPINION, REGARDING THE ROADS AND THAT? BECAUSE WE HAVE MANY ROADS THAT ARE WAY OVER 100%, AND THAT'S A BIG CHALLENGE HERE.
SO, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DENY, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE EVIDENCE.
IF IT'S -- THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS. I LIKE TO ALWAYS TELL -- LOOK, OUR STAFF REPORT CONSTITUTES EVIDENCE. THAT'S THE STAFF'S EVIDENCE TO SHOW. AND A LOT OF TIMES, IT'S THE STAFF'S EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THERE ARE SHORTCOMINGS, AND THE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL.
THEN THAT'S THE EVIDENCE THAT THE STAFF IS PRESENTING TO RECOMMEND DENIAL. THE APPLICANT IS GOING TO COME UP WITH THEIR OWN EVIDENCE TO SHOW, EITHER, A, THERE ARE SHORTCOMINGS WITH THE STAFF'S EVIDENCE, LIKE IN A TRIAL.
STATE'S EVIDENCE IS FALLING SHORT.
OUR EVIDENCE. AND IT'S UP TO YOU, THEN, TO DECIDE TO WEIGH THE EVIDENCE, BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTING IN A QUASI-JUDICIAL MATTER, AND THAT'S THE -- THAT DECISION, YOUR DECISION, AS LONG AS YOU WEIGH THE EVIDENCE AND WEIGH WHAT'S BROUGHT BEFORE YOU, WHATEVER YOU DECIDE -- AND I ALWAYS TELL THIS TO MY COUNCIL IN THE CITY OF APOPKA, AND A LOT OF TIMES, THEY WOULD ASK ME A CERTAIN WAY, AND I WOULD TELL THEM, HOWEVER YOU VOTE, ALWAYS REMEMBER, I, AS YOUR COUNSEL, I'M NOT GONG TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
A LOT OF TIMES, I WOULD TELL THEM, I DON'T EVEN LIVE IN ORANGE COUNTY, SO I'M REALLY NOT GOING TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
YOU WEIGH THE EVIDENCE, YOU MAKE YOUR DECISION, AND WHATEVER DECISION YOU MAKE, EVEN IF I PERSONALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, I HAVE TO DEFEND IT ZEALOUSLY MOVING FORWARD AS IF I HAD RECOMMENDED THAT DECISION TO YOU. THAT IS MY JOB.
AS YOUR COUNSEL. SO, AS LONG AS YOU WEIGH THE EVIDENCE AND THAT IS YOUR DECISION, AND THAT DECISION IS BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AS YOU PRESENTED TO IT, I HAVE TO DEFEND IT.
THAT'S MY ROLE AS YOUR COUNSEL. SO, THAT'S -- YOU KNOW, YES.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES. THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, THAT'S THE STAFF'S EVIDENCE.
THAT'S THE CITY'S EVIDENCE, AND YES, YOU CAN WEIGH THAT. THAT'S YOUR OBLIGATION TO WEIGH THAT EVIDENCE, TO CONSIDER THAT EVIDENCE. IT'S ALSO YOUR OBLIGATION TO QUESTION THAT EVIDENCE THAT STAFF PRESENTS YOU. HAVE THEM GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY ISSUES THAT YOU MAY HAVE OR QUESTION AND HAVE THEM GO BACK.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT WILL PREVENT YOU FROM HAVING IT GO BACK AND BE RE- EXAMINED AS WELL.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY EXAMPLES OF WHERE YOU HAVE HAD TO DEFEND, MAYBE, A COUNTY COMMISSIONER OR CITY COUNCIL IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, WHERE YOU HAD TO DEFEND THEIR DECISION AND HOW DID THAT COME OUT?
>> ONE OF THE TOUGHEST DECISIONS, AND THIS IS ONE
[00:45:04]
THAT PROBABLY FED INTO THE POLITICAL ISSUES IN APOPKA.WE HAD A -- CITY OF APOPKA, BEFORE I GOT THERE, HAD A LARGE TRACT THAT WAS PUBLICLY OWNED, AND THEY DECIDED TO REDEVELOP IT AS WHAT THEY CALL THEIR CITY CENTER, AND THEY WERE WITH THE DEVELOPER TO TRY TO REDEVELOP IT, TO DEVELOP IT AS A COMMERCIAL CENTER. IT WAS A HORRIBLE DEVELOPER.
ACTUALLY, THEY TRIED TO PULL THE SAME BOONDOGGLE IN THE CITY OF CLEARWATER. I THINK IT'S TEN YEARS GOING, NOTHING HAS BEEN DEVELOPED ON THIS SITE. BUT ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WAS THEN TO BE BROUGHT WAS THEY WERE GOING TO DEVELOP A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY, AND IT WAS GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THE NEIGHBORS CAME OUT AGAINST IT. THERE WAS A CLAUSE IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT STATED THAT MULTIFAMILY WAS PERMITTED. HOWEVER, IT WAS A CLAUSE THAT SAID THAT IF IT WAS GOING TO BRING IN MULTIFAMILY, THE MULTIFAMILY HOUSING HAD TO BE MARKET RATE. SO, THE DEVELOPER BROUGHT THAT FORWARD. THEY CAME IN ASKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IT WAS DENIED.
IT WAS LEFT AT THAT. THE DENIAL WENT FORWARD.
THE DEVELOPER THEN CAME LATER, NOT MENTIONING ANYTHING, TRYING TO GET IT RECONSIDERED.
IT WAS DENIED. AFTERWARDS, THEN, THEY CAME AND SAID, LOOK, THEY PRESENTED, THEN, A STATE STATUTE THAT STATED, WELL, THE STATUTE -- THE FLORIDA STATUTE SAYS THAT YOU CAN NOT DENY A -- CANNOT MAKE A LAND USE DECISION BASED ON FINANCIAL FUNDING SOURCES.
SO, IF YOU'RE RECEIVING PUBLIC FUNDING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, A LOCAL GOVERNMENT CANNOT DENY THAT BASED ON THAT. SO, IF SOMEONE IS RECEIVING FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, A LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS PROHIBITED FROM DENYING THAT AND YOUR DENIAL OF AMENDING÷÷AMENDING THE AGREEMENT REMOVE THE MARKET RATE SECTION WAS DISCRIMINATORY. MY ADVICE TO THE COUNCIL WAS, THAT MAY BE THE CASE. HOWEVER, THE WAY THAT THEY PRESENTED IT BEFORE THE COUNCIL WAS THEY LOOKED TO TRY TO CHANGE THE DECISION, AND THE DOOR WAS BARRED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PROPERLY ADDRESS THE MATTER TO GET BEFORE THE COUNCIL. SO, THEY SUED THE CITY, AND AT THAT POINT, WE WERE NOW IN THE BIND OF, LOOK, THAT'S THE WORDING. HOWEVER, THEN, IT JUST BECAME, YOU KNOW, I HAD A COUNCIL THAT WAS -- DID NOT WANT AFFORDABLE HOUSING THERE. I HAD A LAW THAT SAID, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO GET -- IT'S GOING TO BE -- HOWEVER, THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE, WELL, IS THIS THE PROPER WAY OF INTERPRETING THE LAW? USUALLY, WHEN YOU HAVE RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, THE WAY THAT THE COURTS WILL PROVIDE IS THAT STRICT SCRUTINY IS IRRATIONAL.
CAN WE ARGUE, AS A RATIONAL BASIS, THIS IS THE CITY CENTER, THERE'S A RATIONAL BASIS FOR HAVING IT BE MARKET RATE. THERE ARE OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE CITY THAT NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THIS IS GOING TO CREATE A -- THE FEDERAL LAW DOESN'T PROHIBIT YOU TO ZERO IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING ONLY IN ONE SECTION OF THE CITY. THE COURT ENDED UP STRIKING THAT SECTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, BUT THAT KIND OF QUANDARY AND HOW TO PROCEED FORWARD WAS PROBABLY AN INSTANCE WHERE IT WAS KIND OF A -- YOU KNOW, I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES, AND I TRIED TO -- AT THE END, THE ADVICE OF CITY WAS, WELL, YOU GUYS DON'T WANT IT, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, AND I ALMOST SAID -- IT WAS ONE OF THOSE WHERE, HERE'S A CHANCE WHERE YOU GUYS CAN STAND TO YOUR POSITION OF, WE DON'T WANT IT, BUT THETHE COURT'S MAKING US DO IT. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S WHERE WE STAND. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY BLAMED ME FOR SAYING, YOU DIDN'T TELL US WE WERE GOING TO LOSE. BUT I TRIED TO TELL THEM, I NEVER GUARANTEE RESULTS.
>> THE COURT STRUCK THE LANGUAGE FROM THE DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT, SO THE PROJECT HAD TO MOVE FORWARD. THEN, THERE WERE OTHER ISSUES OUTSIDE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE BUILT THEM YET. AND NOW WE'RE GOING ON THREE YEARS.
>> BUT THEY'VE -- THEY, THEN, HAD OTHER -- THERE'S OTHER
>> SO, THIS IS OUR LAST QUESTION.
>> UNLESS THERE'S SOME FOLLOW-UP THAT WE HAVE.
SHARE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ST. JOHNS COUNTY AND WHY YOU'RE INTERESTED IN OPPORTUNITY.
>> FOR ME, THE OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN TO COUNTY GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT. I LIKE TO SAY I GREW UP IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT. I ENJOY WORKING IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT. ALSO, THE OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN TO A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP.
[00:50:04]
I WANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES, TO GROW IN MY CAREER. I THINK ST. JOHNS PROVIDES THAT GREAT OPPORTUNITY, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THIS AREA, THIS REGION. I THINK IT'S A GREAT LOCATION.I LIKE THIS AREA. AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME SIMILARITIES TO PROBABLY MY EXPERIENCES IN VOLUSIA. SOME DISSIMILARITIES.
I DON'T WANT TO SAY -- THERE'S SIMILARITIES AND DISSIMILARITIES.
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CHALLENGE.
AND I KNOW THAT I'M AWARE OF SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES, NAMELY BECAUSE WHEN I WAS IN VOLUSIA, I THINK YOUR FORMER GROWTH MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR BECAME VOLUSIA'S DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR IN 2019.
AND IN 2020, SHE BROUGHT ONE OF YOUR FORMER ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEYS DOWN TO VOLUSIA, AND THEN, OF COURSE, HE WAS THEN EXPLAINED TO ME, IN ST.
JOHNS, WE DID THIS AND I SAID OKAY.
ST. JOHNS AND VOLUSIA -- THIS IS HOW WE'RE DIFFERENT.
THE WAY HE EXPLAINED ST. JOHNS IS LIKE, OKAY, I SAID, YEAH, THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT I USED TO DO IN MARTIN COUNTY. I EXPLAINED TO HIM IN VOLUSIA, MOST DEVELOPMENT, IF ANYONE WANTS TO DEVELOP, THEY JUST GO ANNEX INTO A CITY.
WHEREAS HERE, THERE'S DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY, WHICH WAS WHAT -- IN MARTIN COUNTY, WAS ALWAYS THE BATTLE, BECAUSE MARTIN ONLY HAD, REALLY, ONE CITY AND MOST OF THE DEVELOPMENT OCCURRED IN THE COUNTY, AND WE HAD MAJOR ANNEXATION BATTLES. WE HAD A SLOW GROWTH COMMISSION.
MARTIN WAS A PENDULUM. IT WAS NO- GROWTH, AND THEN PEOPLE GOT TIRED OF THAT IN FOUR YEARS.
THEN, IT WENT TO RAPID GROWTH, AND PEOPLE GOT TIRED OF THAT IN FOUR YEARS AND IT SWUNG BACK TO NO GROWTH.
IT WAS A SCHIZOPHRENIC COUNTY. IT STILL IS TODAY.
IF YOU DRIVE IN SOUTH FLORIDA, AND YOU LOOK AT A COASTLINE, YOU SEE THE HIGH- RISES ON THE BEACH, AND THEY DISAPPEAR IN MARTIN AND REAPPEAR IN PALM BEACH. THERE'S A FOUR- STORY LIMIT IN MARTIN COUNTY. THE CHALLENGE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO GROW MY CAREER AND TO BRING MY EXPERIENCE AND DIVERSITY OF EXPERIENCE TO ST. JOHNS AND TO BE AN ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY AND TO THE AREA.
THAT'S ONE THING I DEFINITELY WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO.
THANK YOU. >> DO WE HAVE ANY FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS ON ANYTHING? ARE WE GOOD? ALL RIGHT.
SO, THAT CONCLUDES, THEN, OUR QUESTIONS FOR YOU. DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR US?
>> NO, I THINK I -- NO, I THINK I'VE -- I MEAN -- I'M TRYING TO THINK.
>> YEAH, NO. IT'S JUST ONE OF THESE, I WAS JUST ASKED, ARE YOU NERVOUS? I WAS LIKE, I'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH THIS. I JUST WENT THROUGH THIS WITH -- I WAS JUST THE LAST FINALIST FOR THE CITY OF DELTONA, SO I KNOW THE ROUTINE.
I THINK I'VE GOT IT. I KNOW THE EXPECTATIONS.
I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS LONG ENOUGH. I KNOW WHAT'S EXPECTED. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE OPPORTUNITY.
EXCELLENT. >> I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN, DRIVING ALL THE WAY UP HERE. I KNOW YOU GOT TO DRIVE BACK, BUT WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB. BE AT EASE WITH US, BECAUSE WE'RE JUST REGULAR FOLK.
WELL, I AM ANYWAY. THEY'RE PRETTY SPECIAL.
>> I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THIS, AS I'VE DONE THIS A LONG TIME, I'VE TOLD THIS IN MULTIPLE CITIES, AND FOLKS GET A LAUGH. I GREW UP IN GOVERNMENT.
I LOVE -- WEIRD THING. I LOVE GOVERNMENT.
>> I KNOW. WELL, THAT AND I GREW UP IN SOUTH FLORIDA POLITICS. SO, I HAVE -- I ALWAYS TOLD THEM IN APOPKA, THERE IS NOTHING ANY OF YOU CAN SAY OR DO THAT WILL FREAK ME OUT THAT I HAVEN'T ALREADY SEEN OR HEARD IN DADE COUNTY.
SO, BRING IT ON. THERE ARE THINGS THAT I CAN NOT UNSEE THAT I HAD TO TAKE TO THE GRAVE THAT I HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH.
>> I AGREE WITH THAT. >> I WAS ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY FOR THE CITY OF OPALOCKA.
>> I WORKED IN DADE COUNTY FROM '82 TO '91. AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN
[00:55:04]
OPALOCKA.>> THE STORIES. WE COULD EXCHANGE SOME OPALOCKA
STORIES. >> I'M A HIALEAH NATIVE.
I GREW UP IN THE ROUGH AND TUMBLE WORLD DOWN
GARDENS. >> THERE'S NOTHING YOU GUYS CAN DO OR SAY THAT WILL FREAK ME OUT. I CAN HANDLE IT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. DRIVE SAFE.
>> BASED ON THE TIME, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO DISCUSS.
>> WE'VE GOT A COUPLE MINUTES.
I THOUGHT HE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB.
I LOVE HIS EXPERIENCE WITH LAND USE.
THAT BEING HIS EXPERTISE WAS REALLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED HERE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. SO, WHAT'D YOU THINK?
>> WHAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO ME WAS THAT THIS WOULD BE -- SORRY. THIS IS ALL RECORDED TOO.
WHAT STOOD OUT TO ME THAT I LIKED WAS THAT HE WILL ONLY WORK FULL-TIME FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY.
HE'S NOT GOING TO BE MANAGING OTHER COUNTIES.
SO, THAT WAS HUGE TO ME. AND I LOVE THE OPEN DOOR POLICY.
BE -- >> I THOUGHT HE DID A GOOD
JOB. >> HE'S GOING TO FOCUS ON OUR COUNTY. I THOUGHT HE DID A GREAT JOB TOO.
>> YEAH. I THOUGHT HE REALLY HIT ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD.
LONG ANSWERS, BUT GOT TO ALL THE POINTS, WHICH I APPRECIATED.
I KEPT THINKING, OH, HE WON'T ANSWER THE NEXT -- THE FOLLOW-UPS THAT WE ASK, BUT HE DID.
SO, I THOUGHT THAT WAS EXCELLENT.
I LIKE THE EXAMPLE THAT HE GAVE, YOU KNOW, THE EXAMPLE.
>> I THINK HE -- I THINK ONCE HE KIND OF RELAXED A LITTLE BIT AND REALIZED THAT HE WOULDN'T DIE, THAT HE REALLY LOOSENED UP AND GAVE US SOME GOOD INFORMATION.
>> NOW, I HAD A QUESTION. WHAT DID HE MEAN AT THE END WHEN HE SAID, I JUST DID THIS?
>> WELL, SO, HE'S BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE WAS A FINALIST AT THE CITY OF DELTONA, AND HE JUST WENT THROUGH THE SAME QUESTION WHEN HE INTERVIEWED THERE.
>> HE DIDN'T SAY. HE JUST SAID, I JUST ANSWERED THIS QUESTION AS A FINALIST FOR THE CITY OF DELTONA AND THAT FOR US, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY
QUESTIONS. >> HE JUST WENT THROUGH THE APPLICATION PROCESS FOR THE CITY OF DELTONA.
>> WE READY FOR THE NEXT VICTIM?
>> WE'RE GOING TO BE INTERVIEWING RICHARD BARFIELD.
>> I'VE ONLY GOT ONE. CAN WE SHARE?
I'M SORRY. I HAVE IT. THANK YOU.
>> HE HAD QUITE THE RESUME. LOT OF EXPERIENCE.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO HIS MATERIALS WHERE HE INDICATED THAT HE WAS WAITING SEVERAL YEARS. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.
>> THAT WILL BE A GOOD QUESTION.
>> HE'S BEEN WAITING SEVERAL YEARS FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.
>> I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR SEVERAL YEARS. UNIQUE.
[01:00:32]
>> I'LL COME OVER THERE BECAUSE I HAVE TO PUT MY BRIEFCASE DOWN.
>> SURE, SURE. >> IT'S BEEN 25 YEARS.
I WAS ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY.
>> SO, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE ODYSSEY.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME TO SIT, TAKE OUR QUESTIONS, BE COMFORTABLE, OR YOU CAN STAND, WHATEVER YOU PREFER.
BUT GOOD MORNING. I'M DES IREE WORONER AND I AM THE HR DIRECTOR HERE AT THE COUNTY. I JUST WANTED TO WELCOME YOU AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
>> I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.
>> YEAH. >> AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
AND ALSO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY.
BACKGROUND, SO THANK YOU. >> GOOD MORNING.
I THINK WE MET IN THE HALL. I'M CLAY.
ABSOLUTE PLEASURE. I'M ONE OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HERE, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
THIS IS A BIG DEAL FOR US TO HAVE YOU HERE, AND WE'RE VERY WELCOME -- VERY PLEASED TO HAVE YOU HERE AND PLEASE FEEL WELCOME AND AT EASE.
I'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. I USED TO DO THIS, YOU KNOW? IT WAS SEVEN MONTHS, BUT I GOT THE WHOLE PICTURE OF WHAT GOES ON HERE.
>> GOOD DEAL. WELL, THANK YOU FOR COMING, AND THANK YOU FOR FEELING AT EASE WITH US, BECAUSE WE'RE -- WE'RE JUST A BUNCH OF CIVILIANS.
>> ALL RIGHT. DO YOU WANT TO GET STARTED? OKAY, SO, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, JUST GIVE US A LITTLE INTRO ABOUT YOURSELF.
>> YEAH. YOU KNOW, I'LL GET TO THE POINT.
I WAS HERE 25 YEARS AGO. THEN, I LEFT.
IN THAT TIME, I DID THE SAME JOBS THAT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY DOES, BUT I DID IT IN A NATIONAL CONTEXT, NOT JUST USING FEDERAL LAW BUT I PRACTICED IN DIFFERENT STATES AND DIFFERENT CITIES THAT HAVE ISSUES SIMILAR TO OUR COUNTY. FOR EXAMPLE, SAN DIEGO, AUSTIN, CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, NEW ORLEANS, AND SO I GOT THE BIG PICTURE IN MANY WAYS OF TYPESTYPES LAW THAT CAN HELP YOU SOLVE PROBLEMS HERE.
AND THE MAIN ISSUE I SEE IS GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
I LIVE AT THE KING AND THE BEAR AND I'VE LIVED THERE 17 YEARS. WHEN I GOT THERE, THERE WAS NOTHING. THERE WAS NO PUBLIX.
NOW, IT'S ALL DIFFERENT. AND I GREW UP IN WINTER PARK, FLORIDA, I GOT TO ORLANDO IN 1959.
ONLY THING THERE WAS ORANGE TREES.
THERE WERE 100,000 PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTY WHEN I GREW UP FROM KINDERGARTEN TO HIGH SCHOOL.
AND THEN, IT EXPLODED. SO, I LIVED THE EXPLOSION.
I KNOW WHAT'S COMING HERE. YOU KNOW, WHEN IT GOES FROM BLUE SKIES TO BROWN AIR, WHEN IT GOES FROM PEACE AND QUIET TO SIRENS AND SHERIFFS' HELICOPTERS FLYING AROUND CHASING PEOPLE, I'VE SEEN THAT.
OKAY? SO, I HAVE LEGAL EXPERIENCE IN PLACES THAT HAVE SIMILAR ISSUES, AND HAVE SOLVED PROBLEMS SUCCESSFULLY.
NOW, FOR THE NAVY, WHAT I DID, I WAS THE EXAMINE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS FOR EVERY PROJECT.
I'M TALKING THOUSANDS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENTS, BUT THEY COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, SO THESE ARE BIG PROJECTS. AND SO, I GOT TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO ANALYZE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF ANY PROJECT, BUT I LEARNED THE TYPE OF LAW THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
IN FEDERAL LAW AND THEN THE LAWS OF PARTICULARLY CALIFORNIA, TEXAS, SOUTH CAROLINA. THEN, I ALSO WORKED FOR THE
[01:05:04]
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DOING NATIVE AMERICAN LAW, AND NATIVE AMERICAN LAW IS PROBABLY THE MOST EFFECTIVEEFFECTIVE IN MANAGING GROWTH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.IT'S THE FEDERAL LAW THAT PROTECTS NATIVE AMERICAN LANDS, AND YOU SAY, NATIVE AMERICAN LANDS? UNLESS YOU'VE DONE WHAT'S CALLED A TITLE 25 U.S.
CODE 177 ANALYSIS OF YOUR TITLE, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE NATIVE AMERICANS STILL OWN IT. HAVE YOU HEARD THAT? YES. STARTING IN 1763, THE KING OF ENGLAND MADE A PROCLAMATION THAT NO ONE, NO COLONIST, NO ENGLISHMAN, CAN PURCHASE OR LEASE OR GET ANY INTEREST IN LAND WITHOUT THE CROWN AGENT BEING THERE. THEN, THE UNITED STATES ADOPTED THAT IN 1790, AND THEN IT WAS ACTUALLY CODIFIED IN 1824.
NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS, BUT IT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO SLOW GROWTH, BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW IF INDIANS STILL OWN THE LAND.
WHAT HAPPENED IN MAINE, CONNECTICUT, NEW YORK, PENNSYLVANIA, VERMONT, NORTH CAROLINA, THEY HAD TO DO AN INDIAN CLAIMS SETTLEMENT ACT, CONGRESS DID, AND THEY PAID THE INDIANS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SOLVE THEIR CLAIMS, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED, THESE AMERICANS AND COLONISTS DIDN'T USE THE FEDERAL AGENT OR THE CROWN AGENTS, AND THEY WENT AHEAD AND TOOK THE INDIAN LAND. SO, YOU LOOK AT YOUR ROOT OF TITLE HERE, IT'S GOING TO TELL YOU IF YOU HAVE THAT PROBLEM. BUT COMPOUNDED ON THAT IN ST. AUGUSTINE AREA AND IN THIS COUNTY, YOU HAVE SPANISH LAND GRANTS. THE SPANISH, YOU SAY, WELL, DO THEY HAVE A SIMILAR LAW? YES, BUT IT WAS DIFFERENT FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PROCLAMATION FROM THE KING. THEY HAVE A JURIST, IT'S CALLED, WHICH IS, IN THE OLD DAYS, THE 1700S, WOULD BE THE EXPERT ON LAW. THEY WENT TO A MAN NAMED VICTORIA, AND HE SAID THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED DERECHOS INDIOS, THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIANS, THAT THE SPANISH COULDN'T SEIZE THE LAND.
SO, YOU LOOK AT THE DEED TO THIS BUILDING, IT WILL START IN A SPANISH LAND GRANT. THE QUESTION IS, DID THAT LAND GRANT, DID THEY PURCHASE THE LAND FROM THE INDIANS? MAYBE NOT.
THE SUPREME COURT HAD -- DID 55 SPANISH LAND GRANT CASES BETWEEN 1826 AND 1929, AND 55 -- THEY FOUND 22 WERE NOT CORRECTLY DONE. THAT MEANS THE TITLE IS VOID.
IN 1822, ST. AUGUSTINE HOSTED THE SPANISH LAND GRANT CLAIMS ANALYSIS HERE WHERE THEY TOOK A LOOK AT ALL THE CLAIMS. NOW, WHAT WERE THEY LOOKING AT HERE? WAS IT ST. JOHNS COUNTY? YEAH.
BUT WHERE WAS ST. JOHNS COUNTY IN 1822? THE ENTIRE PENINSULA OF FLORIDA.
SO, THEY HAD TO ANALYZE ALL THE SPANISH LAND GRANT CASED.
DID THEY DO IT CORRECTLY? I DON'T KNOW.
THEY PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW THE SPANISH LAW.
BUT THEY WERE LOOKING AT MILLIONS OF ACRES.
ALL I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU, IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT GROWTH IN THIS COUNTY, YOU CAN -- THE FIRST THING YOU ALWAYS DO IS CHECK THE DEED. CHECK THE ROOT OF TITLE, AND THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM IN IT.
AND WHAT DOES THAT DO? IF YOU FIND THE PROBLEM, GROWTH STOPS, BECAUSE THE TITLE IS VOID.
NOW, IN FLORIDA, THE SEMINOLES KNEW THAT.
SEMINOLES GOT THEIR WATER RIGHTS PAID FOR AND THE OTHERS GOT A CLAIM SETTLEMENT.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IN THIS COUNTY HAS EVER DONEDONE AN LIKE THAT. BUT THAT'S THE FIRST THING I WOULD CHECK. I TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THE TYPES OF LAWS I KNOW. IT GOES INTERNATIONAL
>> I DID INTERNATIONAL LAW, BUT ALSO THE LAW OF ITALY, AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ, POLAND, ROMANIA. I HAD TO ACTUALLY PRACTICE LAW.
AND THEN, I DID CASES IN, LIKE, DUBAI AND OTHER AREAS AROUND THE WORLD. SO, INTERNATIONAL LAW, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CAN HELP YOU HERE. THEY'RE TREATIES.
THERE ARE INTERNATIONAL TREATIES, MANAGED MOSTLY BY UNITED NATIONS, THAT PREVENT SOME TYPES OF OUT OF CONTROL GROWTH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. SO, INTERNATIONAL LAW.
THE LAW OF OTHER NATIONS. THERE ARE EXAMPLES.
HOW OTHER STATES DO IT, AND FEDERAL LAW WILL HELP YOU AND THE MAIN ONE BEING NATIVE AMERICAN LAW. OKAY?
[01:10:02]
WHY I'M CONFIDENT WE CAN DO THIS, WE CAN DO GROWTH IN THIS COUNTY APPROPRIATELY. NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE I SAID I GREW UP IN WINTER PARK WHERE IT WENT TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET. I'VE LIVED IT.I KNOW THE PAIN, PERSONALLY. I CAN'T GO BACK TO WINTER PARK.
I CAN'T GO BACK TO MY HOME BECAUSE IT'S OVERGROWN.
I WILL HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT INCENTIVE THAN MOST PEOPLE. BUT THE REAL REASON I'M CONFIDENT WE CAN DO THIS IS BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT. THE NAVY DOES IT AROUND THEIR BASES.
WE DON'T CALL IT GROWTH MANAGEMENT.
WE CALL IT ENCROACHMENT THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE ENCROACHING ON OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS.
AND THIS MAINLY HAS TO DO WITH AIRFIELDS, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FLY JETS, BECAUSE OF THE NOISE, OVER A DEVELOPMENT. REALLY, YOU CAN INJURE PEOPLES' EARS. SO, IN PENSACOLA, WE WORKED WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND DEVELOPERS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND PREVENT ENCROACHMENT OF OUR AIRFIELD. WE DID IT IN KEY WEST, AND WE DID IT IN WHITINGFIELD IN JACKSONVILLE, AND A COUPLE OTHER PLACES AROUND FLORIDA. WE'VE DONE IT IN FLORIDA.
AND I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT. SO, I'VE DONE IT.
SO, THOSE ARE THE MAIN POINTS I WOULD MAKE. IF THAT'S -- THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ISSUE. AND THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS WHEN I WAS HERE AS AN ATTORNEY, WE USED THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT ACT OF 1985, AND THEN, IN 2011, EVIDENTLY, WHILE I WAS GONE, I WAS IN AFGHANISTAN, FLORIDA PASSED THE COMMUNITY PLANNING ACT AND I HAVE BEEN READING SOME THINGS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT CONCERNING ABOUT THAT.
SO SAY, WELL, IT GIVES THE COUNTIES MORE LEEWAY. SOME SAY IT KIND OF GUTS THE GROWTH MANAGEMENT ACT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT. I HAVEN'T DONE AN ANALYSIS OF IT. SO, I'VE GOT TO LOOK INTO THAT. OKAY, SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'M TELLING YOU IS, WHEN I LEFT HERE, I HAD A PICTURE IN MY MIND. I KNEW WHAT YOU DO. I KNEW THE ISSUES THAT WERE COMING. I DID KNOCKTY. 18,000 HOMES.
TOOK IT MUCH LONGER THAN THEY THOUGHT, BUT WHEN I LEFT HERE, I KNEW. BUT THEN I SAW NATIONAL FEDERAL LAW. I SAW OTHER STATES' LAWS.
I SAW HOW OTHER CITIES HANDLE PROBLEMS. I SAW HOW OTHER COUNTRIES HANDLE PROBLEMS AND I SAW HOW THE UNITED NATIONS AND INTERNATIONAL LAW HANDLE THE PROBLEM. SO, I HAVE THIS
PERSPECTIVE. >> WOULD YOU JUST SLIDE OVER AND SPEAK INTO THAT MICROPHONE? PEOPLE IN TV LAND CAN'T HEAR YOU AS WELL AS WE CAN.
SO, YOU WERE -- >> I MEAN, THAT'S MY ANSWER.%-Ú
LET ME JUST GO ON TO THE FIRST QUESTION ON THE LIST.
AND YOU MIGHT HAVE ANSWERED SOME OF THIS.
HOW HAS YOUR EXPERIENCE IN INTERNATIONAL, NATIONAL, AND STATE LAW PREPARED YOU FOR THE ROLE OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HERE IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY?
>> OKAY. I DID -- I THINK I DID EXPLAIN IT IN TERMS OF THE GROWTH ISSUE.
LET'S JUST LOOK AT FISCAL. THAT'S THE BIG DEAL WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD.
I WAS THE FISCAL LAWYER FOR THE U.S. FORCES IRAQ WHEN I WAS THERE IN 2009 AND '10. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WE WERE WORKING -- YOUR BUDGET, I THINK, IS $1.75 BILLION A YEAR. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT WAS LAST YEAR.
SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. >> WE WERE DEALING WITH TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AND IF YOU LOOK AT IRAQ, AND YOU LOOK AT AFGHANISTAN, OVER THE WARS, THEY SPENT $5.4 TRILLION.
WHAT I SAW, PERSONALLY, WITH MY OWN EYES, WAS A WASTE, AND I WAS THERE BETWEEN 2009 AND 2012.
BOTH. I'M TALKING BOTH, THE COST IN BOTH. I PERSONALLY WITNESSED A WASTE OF $1 TRILLION, AND YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T SEE ALL THE $1 TRILLION GET WASTED, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, THEY DO REPORTS ABOUT HOW YOU SPENT THE MONEY. DID YOU SPEND IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPROPRIATION? IF YOU LOOK AT THEIR REPORTS, THEY'LL TELL YOU THAT TOO. ALL RIGHT.
A TRILLION DOLLARS. IF WE TOOK YOUR BUDGET OF 1.75, LET'S SAY, HOW MANY YEARS -- AND WE WASTED IT EVERY YEAR, HOW MANY YEARS WOULD IT
[01:15:03]
TAKE TO MAKE A TRILLION? DO YOU KNOW? 571 YEARS. AND THAT'S WHAT I WITNESSED OVER FOUR YEARS. SO, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN VERY, VERY DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.MY OWN ANALYSIS WHERE I HAD TO APPROVE EXPENDITURES WAS ON VERY -- WELL, THEY WERE SECRET MISSIONS, AND IF A FOUR- STAR GENERAL HAD TO USE MONEY IN A CERTAIN WAYS.
SO, I HAD TO DO VERYVERY PROCUREMENTS AND EXPENDITURES.
SO, I DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE THING BECAUSE THOSE WERE HUGE CONTRACTS WHERE THEY REALLY WASTED MONEY.
I MEAN, ONE EXAMPLE, YOU HAD -- WE HAD TO USE MOSTLY PAPER MONEY. WE PRINTED IT IN ENGLAND, IRAQI MONEY, AND THEN WE WOULD BRING IN TRUCKLOADS OF MONEY. ONE NIGHT, THEY TOLD ME, WELL, WE JUST -- A PALETTE OF MONEY FELL OFF THE TRUCK IN A MILLION DOLLARS.
THESE BEDOUINS ARE PROBABLY SLEEPING ON IT. THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT HAPPENED. I'M A LITTLE HYPERSENSITIVE TO PROPER EXPENDITURES. SO, THAT'S THE MONEY END OF IT.
>> WELL, LET'S -- LET'S TAKE THE FOCUS DOWN, AND YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE AND RESPECT THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAVE HAD AND THE CHALLENGES OF WITNESSING A TRILLION DOLLARS IN WASTE IN THE THREE YEARS YOU WERE THERE.
BUT FOR ME, LET'S DRILL DOWN A COUPLE OF LAYERS AND GET TO THE LOCAL LEVEL, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT -- THIS MIGHT TAKE A WHOLE DIFFERENT WAY TO DO THIS.
MY CHALLENGE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, HERE ON THE COUNTY LEVEL, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THAT LEVEL OF WASTE, BUT THERE IS A CHALLENGE FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE -- THAT WE HAVE A COUNTY ATTORNEY THAT'S READY FOR THAT MICRO OF A SCALE.
>> ALTHOUGH I'M SO IMPRESSED AND SO APPRECIATIVE OF YOUR EXPERIENCE, I NEED A GOOD OLD -- SOMETIMES WE JUST NEED A GOOD OLD COUNTY ATTORNEY TO COME IN AND TELL US WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO LEGALLY STEP ON OUR TOES.
>> RIGHT. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I DID FOR YEARS, BECAUSE WE CALL IT FISCAL LAW, BEING THE WAY GOVERNMENT SPENDS MONEY.
NOT THE WAY A COMPANY SPENDS MONEY.
SO, I HAVE TO ANALYZE, IS THE MONEY SPENT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPROPRIATION? AND THAT'S WHERE, FOR ME, YOU SEE, I RELY AND LEARN FROM THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE. THEY HAVE A BANK OF OPINIONS.
SO, IF I HAVE AN ISSUE, I GO TO THAT BANK AND LOOK AT IT.
WHAT IS THEIR DECISION? SO, YOU GET GUIDANCE FROM THAT.
I STUDIED FISCAL LAW BECAUSE I HAVE A MASTER OF LAWS DEGREE, NOT JUST A JD DEGREE.
A PART OF MY JOB WAS FISCAL LAW. I WOULD SAY THAT WAS -- THAT'S A CRITICAL JOB. BUT MOST OF MY WORK WAS IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL LAND USE PROPERTY.
BUT THE FISCAL LAW IS MAYBE THE MOST CRITICAL BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT CAN GET WASTED.
BUT YEAH, THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT I DID FOR YEARS, AND THOSE WERE THE, I THINK, SIMILAR EXPENDITURES. IT'S A NAVY BASE, BEING -- HAVING EXPENDITURES. THE ENGINEERING -- I WORKED FOR THE NAVAL FACILITIES ENGINEERING COMMAND SO IT'S THE CONSTRUCTION, ALL KINDS OF THINGS LIKE
THAT. >> THAT MIGHT LEAD INTO MORE LAND USE ISSUES THAT WE DEAL WITH HERE IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY.
SO, IF YOU WOULD COVER A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF YOUR LAND USE, ZONING ISSUES THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD IN THE NAVY THAT WOULD MIRROR WHAT WE WOULD DO HERE, THAT WOULD HELP.
>> WELL, I MEAN, I DID IT. I WAS IN CHARGE OF THE ZONING WHEN I WAS HERE. SO, I DID -- PONTA WAS THE TOUGHEST ONE AND MARC BURNAL'S HOUSE, THE QUARTERBACK FOR THE JAGUARS, IT WAS THE TOUGHEST ISSUE I HAD. I HAVE EXPERIENCE HERE IN THE COUNTY WITH ZONING. BUT OUR ISSUE IS NOT JUST THE LAND ON THE BASES AND THE CONSTRUCTION AND WHAT YOU WOULD CALL ZONING.
IT ALSO HAD A LOT TO DO WITH WATER RIGHTS, TOO, AND WETLANDS PROTECTION, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, WHAT I DID, WHEN I CAME
[01:20:01]
TO NAVY FACILITIES ENGINEERING COMMAND, I DIDN'T NEED THE PROPERTY UNDERPINNINGS IN FEDERAL LAW OF D USE. I CREATED THE FIRST FEDERAL PROPERTY LAW COURSE FOR GOVERNMENT ATTORNEYS IN 2002. AND I DID IT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. AND THEN, IT IS CONTINUED.EVERY OTHER YEAR. AND I JUST FOUND OUT TWO WEEKS AGO, IT'S STILL GOING ON. AND THAT IS WHAT I DID.
SO, FOR A GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY, I WAS STILL -- I WOULD NEED TO GET UP TO SPEED ON THE ZONING, BECAUSE I WORK WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I WORK WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT IT WAS THE ZONING FOR 2002.
SO, I WOULD HAVE TO GET UP TO SPEED ON THAT.
AND AGAIN, I TOLD YOU, I DON'T GRASP YET THE EFFECT OF THE COMMUNITY PLANNING ACT OF 2011.
BUT PROPERTY -- I DON'T -- AGAIN, IT GETS INTO A DIFFERENT SCALE. BUT I HAD TO DEAL WITH IT, AGAIN, OVERSEAS, MAINLY IN IRAQ, AND I CAN ANALYZE AN ISSUE OF THIS SCALE. I WAS ASKED TO SAY, WHEN WE WERE DRAWING DOWN IN IRAQ, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RETURN 400 BASES. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RETURN TO THE IRAQIS 114,000 BUILDINGS.
WHAT IS THE IRAQI LAW, INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND AMERICAN LAW THAT GOVERNS THAT? AND I DID THAT ANALYSIS, AND I PRESENTED THAT IN TWO PAGES TO THE GENERALS.
SO, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, I CAN DO IT.
IF I CAN DO THAT, I CAN DO ANY ISSUE÷÷ISSUE YOU HAVE, I'LL GUARANTEE
>> IN TERMS OF LAND USE, PROPERTY. ENVIRONMENTAL, THOUGH, IS MY MAIN WORK. AS I SAID, I WAS THE ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS. WE DID THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT ANALYSIS, ME, AND I DID IT FOR OVER A THOUSAND PROJECTS. AND I ALSO DID HISTORIC PRESERVATION, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT IN THIS COUNTY. AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW IS ALSO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WILL CALM DOWN GROWTH, AND I WORKED WITH THE FLORIDA STATE PRESERVATION OFFICER. I AVOIDED LITIGATION ON THE NAVY BASE IN PENSACOLA ON THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION ACT. SO, THAT'S ANOTHER ASPECT OF IT. I DID ENVIRONMENTAL LAW FOR 15 YEARS, INCLUDING HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND I TAUGHT IT.
I TAUGHT IT FOR TEN FOR THE NAVY AROUND THE COUNTRY. AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, WHEN I LOOKED AT YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT, IT LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE ASKING FOR A DEFENSE ATTORNEY. THE ATTORNEY TO BE IN LITIGATION AND DOING DISCOVERY. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY LAND USE PROBLEMS. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY GROWTH PROBLEMS. THE ATTORNEY'S GOING TO BE BOGGED DOWN WITH LITIGATION. WHAT I DID OVER 15 YEARS AT NAVY FACILITIES ENGINEERING COMMAND, I AVOIDED LITIGATION, AND THERE'S WAY TO DO IT.
THERE'S A METHOD. IT WOULD TAKE ME TWO HOURS TO EXPLAIN TO YOU THE METHOD TO DO THAT, BUT I DID IT, EXCEPT FOR GATE CORPORATION, WHEN WE DID EMINENT DOMAIN TO TAKE ONE HALF OF BLUNT ISLAND.
WE WERE WILLING TO GIVE THEM $105 MILLION, AND THEY WANTED $165 MILLION, AND IT WENT TO COURT, AND WE LOST. BUT YOU DON'T WANT YOUR COUNTY ATTORNEY BOGGED DOWN IN LITIGATION. WHEN I WAS HERE, I HAD TO DO A LITIGATION BRIEF ON WHETHER A CAR DEALERSHIP COULD FLY BALLOONS OFF THE CAR.
YOU DON'T WANT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ATTORNEY DOING THAT. THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES.
WE WOULD LOOK AT, WHAT ARE THE MAIN ISSUES, THE BIGGEST ISSUES, PRIORITIZE THEM AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO SOLVE THEM. THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
WE WOULDN'T BE BOGGED DOWN IN LITIGATION. I KNOW HOW TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE BEFORE YOU GET TO LITIGATION. AND YOU DON'T WANT LITIGATION, ALSO, BECAUSE THERE'S NO EXCEPTION FOR ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE UNDER THE SUNSHINE ACT. EXCEPT IF YOU'RE A PARTY TO A LAWSUIT. THAT'S TOO LATE.
I WOULD HAVE -- I WANT TO BE ABLE TO ADVISE YOU WHETHER TO GET INTO THE LITIGATION SO WE'RE ALREADY AT A DISADVANTAGE IN LITIGATION BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IN PUBLIC. AFTER WE'RE A PARTY, THEN WE CAN DO IT. I'LL TELL YOU ONE MORE THING ABOUT WHY I CAN SUCCEED HERE.
I'M NOT JUST A MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA BAR IN GOOD STANDING, AND I HAVE MY CERTIFICATE HERE WITH ME.
I'M A MEMBER OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED
[01:25:02]
STATES BAR AND I HAVE MY CERTIFICATE OF GOOD STANDING IN THAT, AND I HAVE AN ACCOUNT SET UP FOR ELECTRONIC FILING.I CAN TAKE YOUR CASE TO THE SUPREME COURT FOR FREE.
BUT WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE OTHER ATTORNEYS? HOW MUCH ARE THEY GOING TO CHARGE THEIR CLIENTS? THAT'S JUST ONE THING I WANT YOU TO BE AWARE OF. I'M NOT SAYING WE'RE GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT, BUT WE CAN.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. NEXT VICTIM?
>> OKAY, THIS IS, I GUESS, MUCH MORE ON THE MACRO SCALE OR MICRO SCALE, SORRY. THE NEXT QUESTION IS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU'VE SUCCESSFULLY HANDLED THE COORDINATION OF OUTSIDE COUNSEL IN PREVIOUS ROLES AND WHAT STEPS DO YOUYOU TO ENSURE THE COUNTY'S INTERESTS ARE WELL REPRESENTED?
>> OKAY. THE -- WHAT I DID, SEE, IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. THEY REPRESENT FEDERAL CASES IN COURT, AND YOU COORDINATE WITH THEM.
BUT AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO BE TIED UP IN LITIGATION. THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO GO.
SO, WHAT I DID, THEY WERE INVOLVED IN OUR CLASSES ON LAW THAT WE TAUGHT OUR ENGINEERS AND OUR ATTORNEYS SO THEN THEY DIDN'T MAKE MISTAKES THAT LED TO LITIGATION.
SO, I'M NOT GETTING OUTSIDE COUNSEL BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO AVOID LITIGATION.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT. HOW DO WE DO THAT HERE? WE START OUR OWN LAW SCHOOL. YOU'VE GOT, I THINK, 57 DEPARTMENTS. I'M A LAW PROFESSOR.
I WAS TAUGHT BY THE DEAN OF THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA EDUCATION SCHOOL AND THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA INTERNATIONAL LAW DEPARTMENT.
AND I TAUGHT MASTERS OF LAW STUDENTS FOR THREE YEARS.
BUT I ALSO TAUGHT LAW STUDENTS. AND THEN FOR TEN YEARS, I TAUGHT ENGINEERS. EVERY COUPLE MONTHS.
I CAN DO -- I CAN TEACH EVERY DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE ISSUES IN THE LAW THEY WILL SEE, HOW TO AVOID PROBLEMS AND WHAT THE LAW IS.
WE'LL HAVE 57 CLASSES. ALL RIGHT? THAT'S THE WAY YOU AVOID IT.
IF YOU WANT OUTSIDE COUNSEL, YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING A LOT OF MONEY. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? NO.
NEXT. IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS EXPECTED TO COLLABORATE CLOSELY WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND OTHER COUNTY OFFICIALS. HOW DO YOU APPROACH BEING EFFECTIVE -- BUILDING EFFECTIVE WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITHWITH OFFICIALS AND OUR
I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE SUNSHINE LAW.
SO, WHEN YOU SAY COLLABORATE, THAT'S IN PUBLIC. ALWAYS.
>> WELL, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF BEING A NEW COMMISSIONER IS THAT I MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND THAT.
WE WOULD HAVE OUR OWN CLASSES. NOT ONLY THE DEPARTMENTS.
WE WOULD HAVE OUR LEGAL CLASSES IN PUBLIC, TELEVISED OR WHATEVER, ABOUT THE LAWS THAT AFFECT YOU, JUST LIKE OTHER DEPARTMENTS.
AND I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I DO. I CREATE COURSES.
THE BEST COURSE I EVER DID WAS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COURSE IN 2006 WITH ALL OF THE MAJOR FEDERAL PLAYERS FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW.
IT WAS A NATIONAL- LEVEL COURSE.
I CAN TEACH AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.
AND IT -- IT'S NOT JUST INFORMATION.
IT'S BEING ABLE TO LOOK YOU IN THE EYE AND GIVE YOU TIME TO ABSORB AND ORGANIZE THE MATERIAL SO YOU'RE NOT SPENDING HALF YOUR TIME FIGURING OUT WHAT THE RULE FOR PERPETUITY IS. YOU KNOW? IT'S -- I DID IT FOR 15 YEARS. I WAS A LAW PROFESSOR.
AND I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION.
I DON'T KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LEARN THE LAW.
SO, IF YOU DO, THAT'S -- WE'RE WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME.
THANK YOU. >> WELL, LET ME KIND OF SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE BIT.
WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO WOULD MAKE THIS THEIR FULL- TIME JOB. IS THAT YOUR EXPECTATION ALSO?
>> I'VE BEEN HERE. IT'S -- FULL- TIME IS A RELATIVE TERM. FULL- TIME, FOR ME, OKAY, FOR EXAMPLE, I SPENT ONE YEAR WORKING FROM 8:00 IN THE MORNING TO 11:00 AT NIGHT WITHOUT A DAY OFF. OKAY? THEN, ANOTHER TIME, EIGHT MONTHS, 8:00 IN THE MORNING TO 8:00 AT NIGHT WITHOUT A DAY OFF.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? THAT'S FULL-TIME FOR ME.
[01:30:02]
>> YEAH, WELL, I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO WORK 72 HOURS A WEEK. BUT --
>> BUT THIS WOULD BE YOUR ONLY JOB.
>> YES, YES. ABSOLUTELY. AND IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.
YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE -- HERE'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY JOB. IT'S A FATE WORSE THAN DEATH.
>> WELL, I COULD SEE THAT. YEAH.
>> YEAH. BUT YOU KNOW, I'VE ALMOST BEEN KILLED A LOT OF TIMES.
IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. IT WILL BE FINE.
>> YOU'RE NOT AFRAID OF BEING AT THE OFFICE EVERY DAY OR MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY.
>> NO, NO. ON THE WEEKENDS TOO.
>> 12:00 TO 1:00 WITH AN HOUR OFF FOR LUNCH?
>> NO, AND WHAT I ALSO DO, YOU SEE, BECAUSE I'M A MARINE, I GET OUT.
I DO MY OFFICE WORK, 8:00 TO 5:00, BUT THEN, I WILL WALK -- I WILL FIND WHERE THE ISSUES ARE, AND I WILL WALK AROUND.
I'LL BUMP INTO PEOPLE, AND I'LL SEE WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON. WHY WOULD I DO THAT? AS A BABY, I HAD POLIO, SO I APPRECIATE BEING ABLE TO WALK. SO, I WALK AS PART OF MY JOB IN A WAY BECAUSE I APPRECIATE BEING ABLE TO WALK. BUT THAT'S THE PART YOU WON'T SEE ME DOING, AND I WON'T VIOLATE ANY, YOU KNOW, SUNSHINE LAW, BUT I WILL WALK.
I WILL FIND WHERE THE ISSUES ARE, AND I WILL GO THERE, AND I WILL WALK AROUND.
THAT'S WHAT I DID IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ AND THE PERSIAN GULF WAR, ROMANIA, POLAND. YOU GET OUT AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. THAT'S PART OF THE JOB FOR ME.
TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER, 8:00 TO 5:00, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, IS THE BEGINNING.
THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT. THEN YOU HAVE HOMEWORK WHERE YOU'RE DOING, LET'S SAY, CONTINUING LEGAL EDUCATION. BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TO GET BOARD CERTIFIED FOR CITY LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW, SO I HAVE TO DO THAT HOMEWORK.
AND THEN, THERE'S OTHER CONTINUATION.
THE FLORIDA BAR DOES A WONDERFUL JOB WITH CLASSES THAT THEY HAVE FOR ATTORNEYS TO BRING US UP TO SPEED ON THE LATEST WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW.
AND AS I SAID, A BOARD CERTIFICATION PROCESS WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR PEERS ASK YOU QUESTIONS AND MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. SO, THAT'S PART OF IT. THAT IS PART OF THE JOB. THEN, THERE'S WEEKENDS WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CASES WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO GO IN ON THE WEEKEND. THEN, THERE'S WALKING TO FIND OUT. MAYBE -- AND NOT NECESSARILY WALKING OUT IN THE COUNTY. WALKING TO THE ANIMAL CONTROL CONTROL DEPARTMENT AND ASKING THEM, HOW'S IT GOING? THE OTHER THING I DID IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN, I OPENED UP A COFFEE CAFE IN MY OFFICE.
I HAD THE KEURIG, ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF COFFEE. I HAD CHINA.
AND PEOPLE LIKED TO COME AND JUST GET COFFEE.
BUT WHAT DID THEY DO WHEN THEY COME AND GET COFFEE? THEY START TALKING TO ME. AND I START LEARNING THINGS THAT YOU÷÷YOU NORMALLY LEARN.
SO, THERE'S A LOT MORE TO THE JOB.
IF YOU SAY FULL- TIME JOB, THEN 8:00 TO 5:00, IN MY MIND.
>> OKAY. THANKS. APPRECIATE IT.
>> SO, AS COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MANAGING DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS OFFICE.
HOW DO YOU ENSURE EFFECTIVE CASE MANAGEMENT, STAFF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY IN A BUSY LEGAL OFFICE?
>> OKAY. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT A BUSY LEGAL OFFICE.
WE WERE PUT 30 MILES SOUTH OF THE BORDER BETWEEN KUWAIT AND SAUDI ARABIA IN THE PERSIAN GULF WAR. WHY THERE? THEY SAY THAT WAS OUTSIDE OF IRAQI ARTILLERY RANGE, BUT THEY HAD A LOT MORE THAN THAT. THEY HAD ROCKETS AND MISSILES, OBVIOUSLY. THAT'S A HIGH- SPEED ENVIRONMENT. AND WHAT I DID, I HAD FOUR ATTORNEYS OR FIVE ATTORNEYS, AND I, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE JURIS DOCTORATE DEGREE, BUT THEY ALL HAVE SPECIAL TALENTS. SO, YOU FIND OUT WHAT THEIR TALENTS ARE, AND THEN YOU INCLUDE THAT, BECAUSE THAT GETS THEM VERY MOTIVATED TOO. YOU GOT THAT. BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT YOUR EQUIPMENT. IT'S THIS. PERSONNEL, INTELLIGENCE, MEANING, GETTING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTY, OPERATIONS, HOW YOU RUN YOUR OFFICE, LOGISTICS, THE EQUIPMENT YOU HAVE, AND COMMUNICATIONS.
THAT'S THE WAY YOU FIRST APPROACH IT.
AND NOT ONLY DID MY ATTORNEYS HAVE THEIR LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES, THEY HAD RESPONSIBILITIES FOR ONE OF THOSE AREAS. AND THIS IS UNDER FIRE.
SO, YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT IN EXTREMIS.
[01:35:06]
IT WON'T BE THAT HARD HERE, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD DO.LET ME SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT THIS.
THIS RESPONSIBILITY FOR OFFICES. WE HAVE A SAYING IN THE MARINE CORPS, A VERY BLUNT SAYING. THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH THE BLEACHED WHITE BONES OF SECOND LIEUTENANTS THAT FORGOT THEIR LOCAL SECURITY. SECURITY IS A BIG PART OF WHAT YOU DO. YOU CAN BE SECURITY OF YOUR COMPUTERS, OF YOUR PHONES, OF YOUR DOCUMENTS.
WHEN I WAS HERE, I WORKED AN ISSUE WITH A RUSSIAN BUILDING. DON'T THINK THEY'RE NOT HERE. DON'T THINK YOU'RE JUST LITTLE ST. JOHNS COUNTY AND THERE AREN'T INTERNATIONAL ENEMIES AROUND HERE.
OKAY? AND OF COURSE, IT'S MUCH MORE CRITICAL WITH HACKING AND ALL THOSE THINGS. SO, THAT'S THE FIVE ELEMENTS I DISCUSSED PLUS SECURITY.
YOU KIND OF TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO EXPAND. GIVEN THAT ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS ONE OF THE FASTEST- GROWING COUNTIES IN THE U. S. , HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON MAINTAINING A BALANCE BETWEEN LEGAL COMPLIANCE AND GROWTH, ESPECIALLY IN LAND USE? AND UTILITIES. AND HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE A COMMISSIONER SEEKING TO DENY AN APPLICATION?
>> OKAY. I THINK I'VE DISCUSSED, YOU USE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF LAW, STARTING AT
YEP. >> AND THEN OTHER COUNTRIES' LAWS, YOU USE THEIR EXAMPLES. YOU USE FEDERAL LAW.
YOU CAN USE OTHER STATES' LAW AS EXAMPLES. WHERE THEY WERE SUCCESS.
. LIKE SAN DIEGO HAS DONE SOME THINGS. AND THEN NATIVE AMERICAN LAW AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAW. BUT -- AND THIS IS WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE DIFFICULT. I'VE DONE IT, BUT THE THING WE WERE ABLE TO DO TO STOP THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE THE DEVELOPERS ARE MASSIVELY FUNDED, AND PEOPLE REQUESTING PERMITS, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, IF YOU DENY ONE, WHAT WE DID, WE ENTERED INTO JOINT VENTURES WITH THE DEVELOPERS, AND WE CALL IT PUBLIC-PRIVATE. BUT WE FOUND DEVELOPERS THAT WE COULD WORK WITH, AND THEN THEY WERE ABLE TO ACTUALLY POLICE THE OTHER DEVELOPERS, BECAUSE THEY WERE THE, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH US.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN DO THAT HERE.
BUT WE WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL. THAT'S HOW WE DID OUR -- WHAT YOU WOULD CALL AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE JUST CALL IT HOUSING FOR THE TROOPS, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE -- IF YOU'RE A SEAMAN IN KEY WEST, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO LEASE A HOUSE? NO. SO, WE HAD TO GET DEVELOPERS TO WORK WITH US OVER THE WHOLE NATION TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR OUR SEA AILORS AND TROOPS AND AIRMEN, AND THAT'S THE -- I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN DO THAT HERE, BUT I WOULD TRY TO DO IT. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BEAT THE DEVELOPERS.
THEY HAVE VERY HIGH-SPEED ATTORNEYS.
BUT IF YOU LEARN TO WORK WITH THEM, AND YOU UNDERSTAND AND LISTEN TO THEM, WHAT THEY WANT, AND WHAT THEIR VALUES ARE, AT FIRST, IT WILL BE UNREASONABLE.
BUT THEN, IF YOU CONTINUE TO TALK, THEIR VALUES AND WHAT THEY WANT WILL BECOME REASONABLE, AND YOU CAN PARTNER WITH THEM. I MEAN, HERE, I THINK, THE WAY TO DO IT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
>> OKAY. ME? WELL, YOU'VE DONE SOME OF THIS ALREADY. HOLY COW, YOU'VE COVERED SO MUCH. SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ST. JOHNS COUNTY AND WHY YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THIS OPPORTUNITY.
I GOT HERE WHEN I WAS 5 YEARS OLD TO ORLANDO. MY PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, WERE HERE IN THE '40S. I GREW UP IN WINTER PARK, FLORIDA. I CAN'T GO BACK THERE, BUT THIS IS SECOND BEST, I'LL PUT IT THAT WAY. ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT USED TO BE THE ENTIRE PENINSULA OF FLORIDA. THERE WERE ONLY TWO COUNTIES AT THE BEGINNING, IN 1821.
[01:40:01]
SO, IT'S NOT JUST A TYPICAL COUNTY. IT'S ONE OF THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT COUNTIES IN THE STATE. AND I WOULD ARGUE THE MOST IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT WAS THE PENINSULA OF FLORIDA.AND THE PANHANDLE, I ARGUE, IS LESS IMPORTANT, BUT THEY WON'T BELIEVE THAT IN PENSACOLA.
>> SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY AND WHY YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THIS OPPORTUNITY.
>> OKAY. YOU KNOW, I GET IN THE MOST DOGGONE SITUATIONS WHERE I AM AT WHAT HAPPENS -- YOU COULD KIND OF SAY THE WORST THINGS T THE WORST TIMES.
>> YEAH. I'M A MURPHY. I GET THAT.
>> I WAS IN -- I MEAN, IN IRAQ AND BAGHDAD, I WOULD GO OUT AND THINGS WOULD LOW UP AROUND ME.
SAME THING IN AFGHANISTAN AND WHEREVER I GO, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE MOST CHALLENGING THING IS HAPPENING. AND SOMEHOW, I STUMBLE THROUGH IT. AND IT SEEMS TO ME YOU'RE AT THAT POINT. YOU KNOW? IT JUST -- THE TIMING IS RIGHT. YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO STICK WITH THE OLD WAY, WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE DEFENDING LITIGATION AND DOING STUFF LIKE THAT.
OR YOU'RE GOING TO GRAB IT AND TAKE ST. JOHNS COUNTY TO, REALLY, A NATIONAL LEVEL, BECAUSE THE GROWTH IS RATED NUMBER TWO IN THE STATE, AND THEN THERE'S -- I'VE SEEN, LIKE, NUMBER FOUR IN THE UNITED STATES.
SO, YOU'RE BEING FORCED TO GO TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL. DO YOU WANT TO DO IT? DO YOU WANT TO DO IT? YOU SEE? NOW, WHEN I WAS HERE, THESE WERE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. BUT IT WAS AN AUTO MECHANIC AND A FARMER AND A RETIRED NURSE, AND THEY WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT TAKING ST. JOHNS COUNTY TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL. NOT JUST NATIONAL.
THERE IS INTERNATIONAL. WHEN YOU GET INVOLVED AT THE INTERNATIONAL, THEN YOU REALLY GOT TO BE CAREFUL.
>> SO, CAN I PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH AND SAY IT'S THE CHALLENGE OF THIS POSITION, THE EXCITING NEW CHALLENGE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU INTERESTED IN THIS OPPORTUNITY?
AND GOSH, I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT THERE'S A MEDICAL CONDITION, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE'S A MEDICAL CONDITION CALLED THE MR. MAGOO SYNDROME.
DO YOU REMEMBER MR. MAGOO, THE CARTOON? HE GETS IN ALL THESE SITUATIONS, AND HE COMES OUT OKAY.
AND I KIND OF -- THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
>> THIS IS USUALLY BECAUSE HE COULDN'T SEE VERY
I'M WEARING MY CONTACTS BECAUSE MY KITTEN CHEWED MY LENSES, AND THERE ARE LITTLE WHITE HOLES. THIS GUY IS NO GOOD.
I'M WEARING CONTACTS. I'M REALLY NEAR-SIGHTED. YEAH. SO -- AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO THAT --
>> OKAY. >> THIS IS ANOTHER THING.
YOU EVER HEARD -- WOODY ALLEN SAID 80% OF SUCCESS IS JUST SHOWING UP.
SO, IF YOU JUST GET THERE AND GET IN THAT, YOU'RE OKAY.
THIS MR. MAGOO SYNDROME, THOUGH, IS THE PERSON IS OBLIVIOUS TO CHAOS, AND THAT IS WHAT I AM. I'M OBLIVIOUS TO IT. I WOULD SAY MAYBE I DON'T HAVE COMMON SENSE. I WILL TAKE ON THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES. ALL RIGHT, THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE. WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IN 1990-'91 WHEN SADDAM INVADED KUWAIT? WHAT WAS IT? THE LINE IN THE SAND. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER BUSH SAID, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A LINE IN THE SAND IN SAUDI ARABIA, AND YOU'RE NOT COMING OVER IT, SADDAM HUSSEIN. WHO PUT THE DEFENSE IN FOR THE LINE IN THE SAND? YOU'RE LOOKING AT HIM. IT WAS THE WORST DEFENSE IN AMERICAN MILITARY HISTORY AND GUESS WHAT, THERE WERE 30,000 IRAQIS ATTACKING US, AND THAT'S CHAOS. HOW DID WE SURVIVE THAT? THERE WERE 100 OF US. THE IRAQIS STOPPED TO LOOT THE TOWN IN FRONT OF US.
AND THEY NEVER RAN US OVER. WE WERE CALLED THE SPEED BUMP.
THAT WAS THE NAME THE MARINE CORPS GAVE TO US.
I'VE BEEN IN ALL THIS CHAOS, BUT IT'S UNBELIEVABLY, IT'S PEACEFUL.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
>> WELL, IN THAT CASE, OUR QUESTIONS ARE CONCLUDED.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK US?
>> IF WE GET MORE SERIOUS, I HAVE QUESTIONS.
I HAVE THEM. BUT I'M GOING TO WAIT.
>> WELL, THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN.
>> I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY
[01:45:02]
VERY MUCH. AND IT'S A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH Y'ALL.>> AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR SERVICE.
>> ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> OH, AND THE HR DEPARTMENT IS REALLY DOING WELL. I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF SITUATIONS WITH JOBS AND THINGS, AND THEY STAY RIGHT ON TOP OF IT.
THEY'VE KEPT ME INFORMED THE WHOLE TIME.
APPRECIATE IT. >> AND I THINK I TOLD YOU THIS.
EVERYONE I'VE MET HERE OVER THE 17 YEARS I'VE LIVED IN THIS COUNTY, I'VE COME HERE A LOT TO GET HELP. THEY'VE ALL BEEN HELPFUL.
>> YEAH. >> SO, THAT'S -- THAT MAY BE THE OTHER -- THE CHALLENGE AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT.
>> THIS IS WHERE YOU LOOK AT ME AND SAY, DON'T SAY IT.
SO, VERY, VERY INTERESTING GUY. GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.
>> YEAH. >> I KIND OF FELT LIKE THERE WAS A LOT ON THE MACRO LEVEL AND NOT AS MUCH ON THE MICRO LEVEL.
AND THAT WAS PROBABLY MY BIGGEST CHALLENGE.
DO I THINK HE COULD DO THE JOB? OH, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN WE'D ALL GET AN EDUCATION.
>> SO, YEAH. SHARP GUY. VERY, VEY SHARP GUY.
>> THANK YOU. >> I WILL NOW, AFTER I'VE SAID ALL THAT. YEAH, SO, VERY, VERY INTERESTING GUY. WHAT'D YOU THINK?
>> THE SAME. I MEAN, AMAZING EXPERIENCE.
>> GREAT. I APPRECIATED THE PERSPECTIVE OF LOOKING AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE IN LAW FROM THE INTERNATIONAL TO THE NATIONAL TO LOOK AT OUR LOCALIZED PROBLEMS, BUT IT IS GETTING DOWN TO THE LOCALIZED AREA.
>> AND THE IDEA OF THE TITLES, GOING÷÷GOING TO THE SPANISH LAND GRANTS.
>> I THINK WE'VE DONE A LOT OF THAT HERE THAT MOST PLACES WOULDN'T BECAUSE OF OUR HERITAGE.
BUT IT WAS AN INTERESTING THOUGHT TO SEE IF WE ACTUALLY OWN THE LAND WE'RE SITTING
INTERESTING. >> THAT WAS AMAZING.
HE DEFINTELY THINKS OUTSIDE THE BOX.
>> YOU KNOW? DEFINITELY THINKS OUTSIDE THE BOX.
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW. SECOND BEST.
I HEARD THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY, SECOND BEST.
>> NO. HE WAS SAYING, I THINK, IT WAS SECOND BEST TO WINTER GARDEN
>> DEFINITELY MENTIONED A LOT ABOUT SUNSHINE.
AND THE DIFFICULTY OF WORKING IN THAT, SO THAT WAS AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION TOO.
I'LL JUST LEAVE THAT FOR LATER.
>> I MEAN, I WAS REALLY SURPRISED AFTER LOOKING AT HIS RESUME THAT HIS EXPERIENCE WOULD ALL BE TIED TO WHAT HE'S DONE.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS NO SURPRISE THAT HE HAS MUCH MORE
INTERNATIONAL EXAMPLES. >> RIGHT.
[01:51:15]
>> THAT WAS INTERESTING WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT.
>> I KNOW. VERY WELL CONNECTED.
>> YEAH. I THINK WE'RE READY. YEP.
>> WE'RE READY. LET'S GET THIS NEW GUY THAT'S COMING UP NEXT.
>> WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING WITH RICHARD KOMANDO.
>> SHOULD I JUST STICK TO THE QUESTIONS? JUST STICK TO THE QUESTIONS?
>> FLORIDA STATE. THAT DOES IT RIGHT THERE.
ARE YOU FROM TENNESSEE? THAT'S COOL.
>> GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.
>> YOU CAN EITHER STAND, OR YOU CAN SIT, WHATEVER YOU'RE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH.
WELL, I BELIEVE YOU KNOW US. I'LL GO AHEAD AND JUST, FURTHER PURPOSE OF OUR RECORDING, DESIREE WORONER, AND I'M THE HR DIRECTOR HERE AT THE COUNTY, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
>> ANN TAYLOR, COUNTY COMMISSIONER, ND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE. >> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.
>> I'M CLAY MURPHY. IS IT RICH OR RICK?
HERE, BROTHER. >> YOU AS WELL.
>> YOU WANT TO START IT OFF? >> I'LL START US OFF.
IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND JUST GIVING US A BRIEF INTRODUCTION, TELL US ABOUT YOURSELF.
>> THANK YOU. SO, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU GUYS FOR TAKING THE TIME OUT OF THIS.
I KNOW IT'S AN IMPORTANT POSITION FOR THE COUNTY, AND HAVING SERVED AS YOUR INTERIM COUNTY ATTORNEY, I'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT OF THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES LOOK AT WHAT THE OBLIGATIONS ARE AND WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE AS WELL. I HAVE LIVED IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY NOW FOR 21 YEARS. I'VE RAISED ALL THREE OF MY KIDS HERE, AND THIS IS REALLY WHERE MY WIFE AND I, GIVEN MANY OTHER OPTIONS, DECIDED TO MAKE AND CALL OUR HOME.
DURING THAT TIME, I HAVE WORKED FOR -- I HAD WORKED PREVIOUSLY DOWN IN FT. LAUDERDALE, HAD MY OWN PRACTICE WRITE DID CHILD ADVOCACY WORK THAT LED INTO ME APPLYING FOR AND BEING HIRED AS THE CIRCUIT DIRECTOR FOR THE GUARDIAN AD LITEM PROGRAM. WITH THAT PROGRAM, I WAS PROMOTED UP TO THE POSITION OF SATEWIDE GENERAL COUNSEL, WHERE I SUPERVISED ABOUT 140 ATTORNEYS AROUND THE STATE.
[01:55:02]
DEALT MAINLY WITH EMPLOYMENT LAW ISSUES FOR THAT BUT DEALT WITH BUDGETING, APPEALS, AND EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF CIVIL LITIGATION. FROM THAT, I DID MISS BEING IN THE COURTROOM. THAT WAS SOMETHING I DID EARLY ON IN MY CAREER WITH MY OWN PRIVATE PRACTICE, SO I WENT BACK TO THE STATE ATTORNEYS OFFICE BUT IN A LESS TRADITIONAL ROUTE BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE GO TO THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AFTER JUST GRADUATING FROM LAW SCHOOL.I ENDED UP BEING PUT IN THE POSITION CALLED SPECIAL PROSECUTION, SO I DEALT WITH WHITE- COLLAR CRIME, COMPLEX LITIGATION, AND THROUGH THAT, I ALSO HAD OBTAINED MY MASTERS IN BUSINESS AND WITH THE MBA, I WAS ASKED TO BE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE OFFICE WHERE I OVERSAW BUDGET, PUBLIC RECORDS, AS WELL AS THE I.T. DEPARTMENT.
FROM THAT, AT SOME POINT, I KNEW IT WAS ALWAYS MY GOAL TO RETURN TO PRIVATE PRACTICE, AND I JOINED OUR FIRM. AT THE TIME, IT WAS BRADLEY AND GARRISON. JOHN HAD DONE LAND USE LAW AND WORKED WITH THE HOUSING AUTHORITY FOR, I THINK, CLOSE TO 50 YEARS BUT BY THE TIME HE RETIRED, AND ROB BRADLEY HAD ALSO WORKED WITH THE TOWN OF ORANGE PARK AND THE CITY OF KEYSTONE HEIGHTS. I ADDED THE HOUSING FINANCE AUTHORITY AND THEN GREW TO REPRESENT OTHER COUNTIES IN THE GENERAL AREA.
FROM THAT, I'VE DONE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WORK, SPECIFICALLY AND EXCLUSIVELY, REALLY FOR ABOUT THE LAST TEN YEARS.
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, HE ANSWERED OUR QUESTIONS.
>> THAT QUESTION, BY THE WAY, IS DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH YOU HAVE DONE, AND LAND USE, AND PROCUREMENT, AND ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AND HOW IT'S PREPARED YOU FOR THE ROLE OF COUNTY ATTORNEY HERE.
>> SO, DO YOU WANT MORE SPECIFIS ON EACH OF THOSE AREAS?
>> WELL, LET'S JUST GO TO THE GENERAL QUESTION.
HOW'S THIS EXPERIENCE PREPARED YOU FOR THE ROLE OF COUNTY ATTORNEY, SPECIFICALLY HERE IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY?
>> I THINK A LOT OF IT'S UNDERSTANDING THE DYNAMICS BETWEEN ESSENTIALLY THE POLITICAL REALM AND KIND OF THE LEGAL REALM, AND YOU KNOW, MANY LAWYERS LIKE TO TOUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T GIVE POLITICAL ADVICE, AND THAT'S KIND OF THE COLLOQUIAL ANSWER FOR ANY ATTORNEY WORKING IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT, BUT THE REALITY IS YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF KIND OF WHAT THE POLITICAL NEEDS ARE. THOSE POLITICAL NEEDS ARE ESSENTIALLY WHAT GET YOU ELECTED. AND IF YOU'RE NOT, AS A COUNTY ATTORNEY, UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE ARE, THEN I THINK YOU'VE KIND OF MISSED THE MARK, BECAUSE YOU CAN ASK FIVE DIFFERENT LAWYERS THE SAME QUESTION, AND YOU'LL GET FIVE DIFFERENT ANSWERS.
UNDERSTANDING KIND OF WHAT THE SPECTRUM IS ON HOW TO MOVE FORWARD FOR YOUR CLIENTS, WHICH IS THE FIVE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, REALLY IS A BENEFIT THAT I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD PICK UP ANYWHERE ELSE. SO, WORKING WITH OTHER COUNTIES, WORKING WITH OTHER MUNICIPALITIES,WORKING WITH OTHER÷÷ DEPENDENT SPECIAL DISTRICTS AND INDEPENDENT SPECIAL DISTRICTS HAS HELPED PREPARE FOR THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT WORK.
THE PAST 12 YEARSYEARS ALSO HELPED ME FOCUS ON LAND USE LAW, HOW TO DEFEND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AGAINST THEIR DECISIONS FOR MANY OF THE ASPECTS OF WHAT THEY DO AND WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO, AND THEN AS FAR AS PROCUREMENT, IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME, WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING THIS WORK, HOW MANY TIMES SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO SOUL SOURCE SOMETHING AND THERE ARE STATUTORY BID REQUIREMENTS ON HOW TO GO THROUGH AN APPROPRATE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PLATFORMS YOU RAN ON, MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S TRANSPARENCY FOR THE CITIZENS AND THE TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
>> WELL, I THINK THE NEXT ONE IS MINE.
I THINK YOU'VE ALREADY EXPLAINED HOW YOU HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE IN COORDINATING OUTSIDE COUNSEL, BUT WHAT STEPS WOULD YOU TAKE TO ENSURE THAT OUR INTERESTS ARE WELL REPRESENTED WHEN IT CAME TO OUTSIDE COUNSEL?
>> SO, OUTSIDE COUNSEL OFTEN COMES INTO PLAY WITH INSURANCE- TYPE DEFENSE REQUIREMENTS.
THERE ARE MANY TIMES WHERE OUTSIDE COUNSEL DOES NOTNOT OR, FOR EXAMPLE, FACT WILL TELL US THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COVER OUR CLAIM.
IN THE CASES WHERE THEY DO COVER OUR CLAIM, IT'S MORE SLIP AND FALL AND PERSONAL INJURY TYPE CASES BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN, YOU GET SOMETHING THAT DEALS WITH A LAND USE ISSUE.
I, AS A PERSON, PREFER TO MEET WITH EACH ONE OF THETHE COUNSEL, AND I ALSO LIKE TO CHECK UP WITH THEM SO THAT I CAN ALSO GIVE COMMISSIONERS AND STATUS UPDATE ANY TIME THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH LITIGATION.
ONE OF THE THINGS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS OBLIGATED TO DO IS HOPEFULLY MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN SURPRISED. I DON'T WANT YOU HEARING SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING ON A CASE, EVEN IF OUTSIDE COUNSEL'S INVOLVED, FROM SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT INTERNAL TO THAT REQUIRES COMMUNICATION. A LOT OF TIMES, IT REQUIRES US TO REVIEW THE PLEADINGS OR ARGUMENTS OR STRATEGIES THAT THEY PLAN TO USE. SOMETIMES, THERE ARE TRADITIONAL CIVIL LITIGATION STRATEGIES THAT ARE EMPLOYED.
BUT THAT MAY NOT BE ASAS AS OFTENTIMES
[02:00:01]
MY CLIENTS WANT TO SEE THAT TYPE OF WORK GO FORWARD.LET'S SEE HERE. IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS EXPECTED TO COLLABORATE CLOSELY WITH THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND OTHER COUNTY OFFICIALS. HOW DO YOU APPROACH BUILDING EFFECTIVE WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS
>> WELL, THIS IS AN ODD QUESTION, ONLY BECAUSE WE'VE DONE THIS.
YOU END UP HAVING TO HAVE ONE-ON- ONE CONVERSATIONS.
THERE ARE VERY LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES WHERE, BECAUSE OF FLORIDA SUNSHINE LAW AND THE GOVERNMENT AND SUNSHINE ACT THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MEET WITH YOUR COUNTY ATTORNEY IN PUBLIC, AND IN PART BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING DOING THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS OTHERWISE. THAT REQUIRES ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS, PERSONAL MEETINGS, MEETINGS WITH CITIZENS AND THE ELECTED OR APPOINTED OFFICIALS, AND AS YOU DEVELOP A RELATIONSHIP AND HOPEFULLY TRUST, THEN THAT KIND OF FURTHERS THE RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT WHEN YOU'RE COMFORTABLE, YOU'LL REACH OUT TO ME WHENEVER YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR CONCERN, DAY OR NIGHT, LATE NIGHT, EARLY MORNING, WEEKENDS, I MEAN, WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.
>> OKAY. WELL, YOU MENTIONED EVENING, WEEKENDS, WHATEVER IT TAKES. THE QUESTION WE HAVE HERE IS IN REGARDS TO YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF THE FULL-TIME WORK. AND REPRESENTATION AT THE COUNTY. I BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER APPOINTMENTS RIGHT NOW, SO WE'RE JUST WANTING TO HEAR YOU SPEAK ABOUT IF YOU WERE SELECTED AS THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, WHAT WOULD YOUR EXPECTATIONS BE FOR FULL-TIME?
>> I MEAN, THIS HAS BEEN, CANDIDLY, AS YOUR INTERIM COUNTY ATTORNEY, THIS HAS BEEN MORE THAN A FULL- TIME POSITION. THE COUNTY JUST, ESPECIALLY WITH THE TRANSITION FROM THE ELECTION, HAS HAD A LOT OF NEEDS.
THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGE IN DIRECTION, AND THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF COORDINATION AND TIME. SO, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING JUST A 40-HOUR-A- WEEK JOB. IT'S LITERALLY NIGHTS, WEEKENDS, BEFORE HOURS, AFTER HOURS, AND I WOULDN'T EXPECT THE EXPECTATION TO BE ANY DIFFERENT. AS FAR AS MY OTHER CLIENTS ARE CONCERNED, MY PARTNERS AND I HAVE TALKED, AND WE WOULD BRING ON ANOTHER ATTORNEY THAT'S GOING TO HANDLE A BULK OF THAT TYPE OF WORK.
>> OKAY. YOU'LL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MANAGING THE DAY-TO- DAY OPERATIONS OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS OFFICE. HOW DO YOU ENSURE EFFECTIVE CASE MANAGEMENT, STAFF ACCOUNTABILITY AND OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY IN A BUSY LEGAL OFFICE?
>> SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE DONE THAT BEFORE, AND I HAVE DONE IT ON A STATEWIDE BASIS, AND I'VE ALSO DONE IT. IN THE BEGINNING, AS GUARDIAN AD LITEM, I SUPERVISED 14 ATTORNEYS.
I WAS OVERSEEING 140 ATTORNEYS, AND A LOT OF THAT DEPENDS ON THE SAME RELATIONSHIP THAT I WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE WITH THE COMMISSION. YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATION. YOU HAVE TO MEET WITH EACH ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS.
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE WORKING ON. IT ALSO HELPS PHENOMENALLY TO HAVE A GOOD TEAM. YOU KNOW, MS. WEST IS SITTING HERE. SHE'S ONE OF THE CRITICAL PARTS OF OUR TEAM.
HAVING PEOPLE THAT ARE WITHIN THE OFFICE FOR THAT, WHEN THEY SEE SOMEONE ELSE STRUGGLING, THERE'S NOT EVEN A QUESTION OR AN ASK.
THEY STEP IN AND WILL HELP THE PERSON OUT.
THAT'S THE TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT THAT HOPEFULLY A LEADER WILL FOSTER AMONG THE OTHER ATTORNEYS, AND IT'S NOT JUST MS. WEST. ALL OF YOUR ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEYS DO THAT. IF SOMEONE NEEDS HELP AFTER HOURS, THEY'LL STEP IN. IF SOMEBODY'S STRUGGLING, OFTENTIMES, THEY'LL COME TO ME. THAT HAS REQUIRED AN ADJUSTMENT OF SOME OF THE EXPECTATIONS FOR EACH COUNTY ATTORNEY. WE HAVE ALREADY SPENT TIME OVER THE PAST YEAR REORGANIZING KIND OF WHAT THEIR DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES WERE. AS YOU KNOW, WITH TWO ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEYS LEAVING, WE WANTED TO TRY TO DIVIDE EACH OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS' DUTIES IN LINE WITH THE DEPARTMENTS FOR THE COUNTY SO THAT HOPEFULLY THEY HAVE ONE, THEY, THE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND THE SUPERVISORS, HAVE ONE POINT OF CONTACT AND THAT INCREASES THE COMMUNICATION FOR EACH ONE OF THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE OFFICE. AND AS LONG AS I'M KEEPING IN TOUCH WITH THOSE FIVE, IF THERE'S ANY OTHER PROBLEMS, PEOPLE WILL COME DIRECTLY TO ME, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, YOUR COMPETENT STAFF WILL HELP DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES.
>> IS THERE -- DO YOU UTILIZE ANY KIND OF ELECTRONIC SCHEDULING OR ANY KIND OF APP OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD HELP KIND OF KEEP YOUR DEPARTMENT ORGANIZED? OR A SPREADSHEET OR WEEKLY MEETINGS OR, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU -- IS THERE A -- IS THERE AN ELECTRONIC AID THAT YOU USE IN THIS JOB?
>> WE USE THE -- JUST THE GENERAL CALENDARING SYSTEM, AND THE NICE THING IS THAT ONE OF OUR ASSISTANTS, OUR SUPPORT STAFF, PROVIDE ME WITH A LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT'S ON EVERYBODY'S CALENDAR FOR THAT DAY.
SO, I KNOW WHO'S OUT. I KNOW WHO'S WORKING
[02:05:01]
ON PARTICULAR PROJECTS. I KNOW WHO HAS CERTAIN MEETINGS, AND THAT DOES HELP GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF KIND OF THE FLOW OF WHERE PEOPLE NEED ASSISTANCE FOR THE MOST PART.GIVEN THAT ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS ONE OF THE FASTEST- GROWING COUNTIES IN THE U.S. , HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON MAINTAINING A BALANCE BETWEEN LEGAL COMPLIANCE AND GROWTH, ESPECIALLY IN LAND USE AND UTILITIES? AND HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE A COMMISSIONER SEEKING TO DENY AN APPLICATION?
>> SO, THERE'S A LOT TO THAT QUESTION.
AGAIN, AS YOU REPRESENT THE CITIZENS, IT HELPS TO UNDERSTAND KIND OF THE DIRECTION THAT ANY LEGAL STAFF IS GETTING FROM THE COMMISSION.
HOW DO YOU DO THAT? IT DEPENDS ON WHAT'S WITHIN YOUR CODE.
THERE ARE ALWAYS WAYS THAT YOU CAN -- OR YOU'RE TASKED WITH FINDING PARTICULAR ISSUES RELATED TO AN APPLICATION THAT COMES BEFORE YOU.
STAFF WORKS VERY HARD -- NOT LEGAL STAFF -- ACTUALLY, YOUR PLANNING AND GROWTH MANAGEMENT STAFF WORKS VERY HARD TO OUTLINE FOR YOU IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE OR A MOTION TO DENY, AND YOU'LL HEAR FIVE OR SEVEN FINDINGS OF FACTS. INSTEAD OF BEING GENERIC IN WHAT THAT HE HAS ELEMENTS ARE, IT HELPS FOR YOU TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE LEGAL STAFF AS FAR AS, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THERE'S COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AS FAR AS WHAT'S PRESENTED YOU, WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU IN AN EX PARTE COMMUNICATION? LEARN WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE WELL-FOUNDED EITHER APPROVAL OR DENIAL.
AS I SAID, I'VE LIVED HERE FOR 21 YEARS.
YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A FAN OF THE GROWTH THAT I HAVE SEEN.
I HAD TO DRIVE DOWN RACETRACK ROAD THIS MORNING JUST TO COME INTO THE OFFICE TODAY.
AND WHEN I SEE THE MULTI- BUILDING APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT'S RIGHT BEFORE U.S. 1 AND RACETRACK ROAD, WHEN I FIRST MOVED HERE, ALL OF THAT WAS TWO- LANE ROAD, NOT FAR FROM FLORIDA BRANCH, SO MORE THAN THREE- QUARTERS OF THE ROAD WAS JUST A TWO- LANE ROAD. I REMEMBER SEEING A SIGN FOR THE CEMETERY THAT SOMEHOW IS NOW AN ISLAND WINGS RESTAURANT, BUT THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS THERE.
I DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE IN JACKSONVILLE.
THAT WAS WHY I WANTED TO COME LIVE IN A MORE RURAL AREA.
I GREW UP OUT IN THE PANHANDLE, IN A SMALL AREA, SO GROWING UP IN THAT AREA, THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT ATTRACTED ME TO ST. JOHNS COUNTY. SO, MY HEART IS IN LINE WITH, I THINK, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETELY STOP GROWTH, BUT I THINK YOU ARE IN A PHENOMENAL POSITION OF POWER TO MANAGE GROWTH. AND BY MANAGING GROWTH, YOU CAN MAKE SURE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS AVAILABLE. YOU CAN MAKE SURE THAT UTILITIES SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE.
THERE'S CAPACITY THAT DEALS WITH YOUR WATER AND SEWER THAT CAN BE A BASIS FOR -- SOMETIMES IT'S NOT EVEN DENYING A CLAIM BUT ASKING THE DEVELOP TOERZ ERS TO SHORE UP THE DEFICIENCY IES, BUT I WOULD SAY, FIND WELL- FOUNDED REASONS THAT COME BEFORE YOU. IT CAN'T JUST BE YOUR PUBLIC CITIZENS THAT SAY, WE DON'T WANT THIS IN OUR BACKYARD.
THERE ARE WAYS THAT, THROUGH STAFF, YOUR STAFF REPORTS ARE COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, THERE ARE WAYS THAT YOU CAN TASK STAFF WITH GOING OUT AND FINDING INDEPENDENT EXPERTS TO BRING IN SOMETHING THAT MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE THE LEVEL OF EXPERTISE TO COMBAT WHAT THE DEVELOPER IS GOING TO BRING.
USING THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF STRATEGIES, YOU CAN REALIZE KIND OF THE MANAGED GROWTH THAT YOU'VE ALL RUN FOR ON YOUR CAMPAIGNS.
>> YAY. YOU'VE KIND OF ANSWERED THIS QUESTION.
BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU AGAIN ON THE HOT SEAT.
SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ST. JOHNS COUNTY AND WHY YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THIS OPPORTUNITY.
>> SO, I'M PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE ONLY APPLICANT THAT TELLS YOU I WASN'T ORIGINALLY INTERESTED IN THIS OPPORTUNITY. PART OF THE REASON WHY I WAS INTERESTED IN BEING INTERIM COUNTY ATTORNEY IS BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A ISSUE THAT THIS IS MY HOME, AND I SPEND -- HAVE SPENT, OVER THE PAST DECADE AND MORE, A LOT OF TIME HELPING OTHER COUNTIES NAVIGATE DIFFICULT ISSUES WITH EVERYTHING RELATED TO GROWTH.
PUBLIC SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE.
AND AS YOU HELP THEM NAVIGATE THOSE THINGS, IT REALLY FELT, TO ME, THAT WHY WOULDN'T I TRY TO USES THOSE SKILLS, BACKGROUND EXPERIENCES? I'VE TAKEN ON LARGE DEVELOPERS AND WON WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATION.
THINGS THAT MY CLIENTS WERE TOLD THE DEVELOPER'S GOING TO BURY YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY SIX, MAYBE SEVEN FIGURES IN LEGAL FEES. AND YOU KNOW, YOU DIG IN, YOU FIND A PATH FORWARD, AND YOU WIN. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I
[02:10:03]
FELT LIKE I COULD BRING, AT LEAST ON AN INTERIM BASIS, UNTIL THE COUNTY WAS ABLE TO TRANSITION INTO A PERMANENT POSITION.AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS I WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR, AND I GOT TO MEET THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY WORK BEHIND THE SCENES, CANDIDLY, YOUR OCA STAFF IS PHENOMENAL.
WORKING WITH THEM IS THE REASON WHY I MADE THE DECISION TO ACTUALLY PUT IN AN APPLICATION FOR THE PERMANENT POSITION, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE HERE TO SUPPORT THEM.
I LOOK AT WHERE, IF I SUPPORT THEM, THEN THEY WILL DO AN IMPROVED JOB IN SUPPORTING EACH OF THE DEPARTMENTS AND YOU.
IF THEY DO AN EXCELLENT JOB SUPPORTING YOU, THEN THAT MAKES MY HOME A BETTER PLACE.
I MEAN, IT WAS A WIN ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT.
>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. KOMANDO? THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF US?
>> YOU KNOW, HAVING BEEN HERE FOR OVER A YEAR, I GUESS I'VE GOTTEN MOST OF MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO YOU THAT THE PERSON NOT REPRESENT OTHER CLIENTS? I MEAN, TO ME, I FEEL LIKE IT'S A BENEFIT BECAUSE I SEE THINGS ON A REGIONAL LEVEL, AND OF THE OFTENTIMES ON A STATEWIDE LEVEL, THAT I CAN BRING TO YOU SO WE'RE NOT CAUGHT OFF GUARD. WHEN I USED TO REPRESENT ONLY ONE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, THAT WAS SOMETHING I WAS NERVOUS ABOUT.
WHAT AM I MISSING? DURING THE TIME OF REID VS.
GILBERT, I WAS ONE MAN ON AN ISLAND AND DIDN'T SEE IT COMING. AS I PROGRESSED THROUGH MY CAREER, YOU SEE A LOT OF THOSE THINGS COMING.
DO YOU SEE THAT AS A BENEFIT, OR DO YOU SEE THAT AS A HINDRANCE?
>> WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
IT COULD BE -- I THINK THE CONCERN OF THE BOARD IS MAKING SURE THAT ST. JOHNS COUNTY IS YOUR FAVORITE CHILD. AND YOU KNOW, WE'D LOVE YOU TO BE -- WE'D LOVE TO BE YOUR ONLY CHILD IF OFFERED THE POSITION. BUT WHAT YOU SAY DOES MAKE SENSE. I MEAN, BEING AS DIVERSE AS YOU CAN. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES THAT YOU WOULD HAVE OUTSIDE WOULD NOT COME IN CONFLICT WITH YOUR FAVORITE CHILD.
AND FORTUNATELY, I THINK THE ONLY THING OVER THE PAST YEAR THAT -- ACTUALLY, OUR OFFICE IS VERY COGNIZANT ABOUT IS THERE WAS AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT AS FAR AS DISPOSAL OF SOLID WASTE DEALING WITH PUTNAM COUNTY AND WE MADE SURE THERE WAS ANOTHER ATTORNEY THAT REVIEWED THE AGREEMENT. AND I DIDN'T REVIEW THE AGREEMENT ON THIS SIDE, JUST TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT EVEN AN APPEARANCE OF CONFLICT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A VERY SUPERFICIAL AGREEMENT. WE TAKE STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT EFFECTIVELY REPRESENTS THE
COUNTY. >> ANYTHING ELSE FOR US?
>> DID THAT OPEN UP A LINE OF QUESTIONING THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO GO AFTER?
>> THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. HAVE A GREAT AFTERNOON.
>> WELL, HE DIDN'T DO TOO BAD. I HATE THE FACT THAT HE TOOK SO LONG TO TELL US ALL ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS. THAT WAS A PRETTY GOOD INTERVIEW. I HAVE TO ADMIT, I THOUGHT HE DID A GOOD JOB.
[2. Discussion of the candidates afterward (pending the direction of the Committee).]
>> SO, DID YOU WANT TO -- WE HAVE SOME TIME NOW THAT IF WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT OUR CANDIDATES THAT WE'VE REVIEWED THIS MORNING, OR WE CAN WAIT UNTIL LATER.
>> YEAH, LET'S -- DO WE -- DO WE NEED TO KIND OF LIKE DO A RATING? OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING WE COULD DO?
>> BECAUSE WHAT IS OUR GOAL? TO COME FORWARD WITH THREE, RIGHT? TO THE BOARD?
>> I THINK THE GOAL IS TO JUST, YOU KNOW, BASED ON OUR INTERVIEWS, BRING THE STRONGEST, BEST CANDIDATES FORWARD FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION. AND THE NUMBER IS, WE HAVE FOUR CANDIDATES. DO WE THINK, BASED ON THE THREE THAT WE HAVE, THAT EACH ARE WHAT THE BOARD IS LOOKING FOR AND THAT WOULD WANT TO PROCEED TO THE NEXT LEVEL? SO, I THINK THAT WE CAN BRING ALL FOUR OR WE CAN BRING THREE OR TWO. IT'S REALLY UP TO WHAT YOU ALL THINK WOULD BE REASONABLE. SERVING AS THE BOARD
MEMBERS. >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE -- I KIND OF FEEL LIKE I WANT TO RESERVE JUDGMENT UNTIL WE HAVE THIS LAST INTERVIEW.
I THINK THAT IF WE WERE JUST GOING ON THE THREE, I THINK
[02:15:03]
THAT WE COULD TAKE -- THAT I HAVE HEARD TWO VERY STRONG CANDIDATES TODAY.>> AND SO, I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH TAKING TWO FORWARD TO THE BOARD.
>> I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THIS AFTERNOON, ON OUR FOURTH, TO SEE IF WE COULD CARRY TWO OR THREE TO THE BOARD FOR THEIR NEXT MEETING.
>> BUT I WOULD -- I REALLY WANT TO SEE THIS OTHER GUY.
>> AND I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY WOMEN APPLICANTS.
>> SO -- >> WELL, WE DID, BUT WE DIDN'T FEEL THEY MET THE MINIMUMS.
>> THEY WERE JUST A FEW YEARS OUT OF SCHOOL.
>> THERE YOU GO. THAT'S -- THERE YOU GO.
>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, I THINK BASED ON THAT, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND ADJOURN UNTIL WE THEN MEET OUR FINAL CANDIDATE THIS AFTERNOON AT 1:00.
AND SO, THAT'S IT
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.