Dec 21, 2023 Planning and Zoning Agency

[Call meeting to order]

[00:00:32]

>> I WOULD LIKE TO THE CALL THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING TO ORDER, THURSDAY, DECEMBER 21ST. WE'LL START WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." OKAY. DR. HILSENBECK, IF YOU COULD READ

THE PUBLIC NOTICE STATEMENT? >> THIS IS A PROPERLY NOTICED PUBLIC HEARING HELD IN CON OCCURRENCE WITH REQUIREMENTS OF FLORIDA LAW. THE PUBLIC WILL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON TOPICS RELEVANT TO THE AGENCY'S AREA OF JURISDICTION AND AN TONIGHT TO OFFER COMMENT AS A DESIGNATED TIME DURING THE HEARING. ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC DESIRING TO SPEAK MAY DO SO BY FILLING OUT THE SIGN IN SHEET AVAILABLE IN THE FOYER.

IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT AND DO YOU SPEAK, JUST BE SURE TO SIGN ONE OF THOSE AND GIVE IT TO THE FOLKS OVER THERE. THANK YOU.

THE PUBLIC SHALL SPEAK AT A TIME DURING THE MEETING ON EACH ITEM AND FOR A LENGTH OF TIME DESIGNATED BY THE CHAIRMAN WHICH SHALL BE THREE MINUTES. SPEAKERS SHOULD IDENTIFY THEMSELVES, WHO THEY REPRESENT AND STATE THEIR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. SPEAKERS MAY OFFER SWORN TESTIMONY. IF THEY DO NOT, THE FACT THAT THE TESTIMONY IS NOT SWORN MAYBE CONSIDERED BY THE AGENCY IN DETERMINING THE WEIGHT OR TRUTHFULNESS OF THE TESTIMONY. IF A PERSON DECIDES TO APPEAL ANY DECISION MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY MATTER CONSIDERED AT THE HEARING, SUCH PERSON WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS, AND MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE. WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. ANY PHYSICAL OR DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE PRESENTED DURING THE HEARING SUCH AS DIAGRAMS, CHARTS, PHOTOGRAPHS, OR WRITTEN STATEMENTS, SHALL BE PROVIDED TO THE CLERK FOR INCLUSION INTO THE RECORD. THE RECORD WILL THEN BE AVAILABLE FOR OTHER BOARD, AGENCY, COMMITTEE OR THE COUNTY IN REVIEW OF APPEAL RELATING TO THEM.

>>> AGENCY MEMBERS ARE REMINDED AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH ITEM THAT THEY SHOULD STATE WHETHER THEY HAD ANY COMMUNICATION WITH THE APPLICANT OR ANY OTHER PERSON REGARDING THE SUBSTANCE OF THE ITEM OUTSIDE THE FORMAL HEARING OF THE AGENCY. IF SUCH

[Approval of meeting minutes from 8/17/23, 9/07/23, 9/21/23, 10/5/23, 10/19/23]

[Public Comments]

>> THANK YOU. >> NEXT ITEM WILL BE THE APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM AUGUST 17TH, SEPTEMBER 7TH, SEPTEMBER 21ST, OCTOBER 5TH, AND OCTOBER 19TH, 2023.

>>> SO MOVED. >> CHAIR: OKAY. WE HAVE A

MOTION AND A SECOND? >> SECOND.

>> CHAIR: ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> (CHORUS OF AYES).

>> CHAIR: MOTION PASSES. >> CHAIR: AT THIS TIME, WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT HAS SOMETHING THEY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON WHETHER ON THE AGENDA OR ANOTHER TOPIC. KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM WHEN THAT ITEMS IS

ON THE FLOOR. >> SEEING NONE, WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM NUMBER 1 PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

>> I'M DOT TRI-SMITH. I ACTUALLY WAS GOING TO COMMENT ON REGARDING, UM, AGENDA ITEM 1 FOR THE FORM WORKER HOUSING AND

(INAUDIBLE) >> FOR THE CONCERN OF HAVING FORMED AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN OUR AREA WHICH IS RIGHT NOW ZONED AS

[00:05:11]

THAT WILL BENEFIT EVERYBODY. >> THANK YOU.

>> CHAIR: THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE?

>> >> IN RELATION TO THIS JUST TO RELY BY MY FATHER, I JUST PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY TWO YEARS AGO ON BINNIE SMITH ROAD. AND MY CONCERN IS MORE WITH THE LANGUAGE OF THE PERMIT THAT WAS RELAYED. THERE'S A LOT OF OPEN, AMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE THAT I FEEL DOWN THE ROAD AS FAR AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITHIN THE TWO YEARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THINGS COULD CHANGE IF THE PERMIT IS NOT ADHERED TO. SO, MY THING IS THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR EVERYONE ON BINNIE SMITH ROAD. THE QUALITY OF LIFE IS THREE THINGS, YOUR HEALTH, YOUR WEALTH, AND YOUR RELATIONSHIPS. HOW WILL THE FARM WORKERS AND THE LANGUAGE THAT'S OPEN AND AMBIGUOUS AFFECT THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR GENERATIONS.

WITHIN SILVER HILL AND IN GENERAL, BINNIE SMITH ROAD IN PARTICULAR. IT'S KIND OF A LAST MINUTE THING, I WAS UNAWARE.

I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE AUGUST OF THIS YEAR. I'VE WITNESSED TO THE MOVING IN OF THINGS. I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE FARMER HOUSING, I JUST WANT TO KNOW MORE DETAILS AS FAR AS THE LANGUAGE OF WHAT IS THE AGRICULTURE ACTIVITY? THAT IS A BROAD TERM, WHAT IS THAT DEFINED AS, I WOULD LIKE THE TO GET BEHIND THE LANGUAGE. IF THE POSSIBILITY OF THE LANGUAGE IS MORE CONCRETE AND NOT AMBIGUOUS FOR FUTURE, YOU KNOW, WHERE

[1. SUPMAJ 2023-12 Bennie Smith Road Farm Worker Housing. ]

THAT'S PRETTY MUCH MY STANCE AND I THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> CHAIR: THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. IF NOT, WE MOVE TO

ITEM 1. MS. TAYLOR? >>> THIS IS QUASI JUDICIAL EX-PART TAKE DISCLOSURES, IF THERE ARE ANY.

>> YES, I DID A SITE VISIT. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, KAREN TAYLOR, 77 SARAHGOSSA STREET. AND THE APPLICANT IS HERE WITH ME TODAY. I HOPE THAT I COULD ADDRESS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT

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SO, JUST TO GO THROUGH MY PRESENTATION, UM, KIND OF KNOW THE GENERAL LOCATION AND IT'S OFF OF 012 SOUTH, JUST SOUTHEAST OF HASTINGS NEAR ANOTHER PROPERTY MR. SMITH HAD REZONED NOT TOO LONG AGO. AND VERY CLOSE TO FARM LANDS, AND YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF FARM LANDS THAT HE FARMS. IN THE BENNIE SMITH ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD THERE ARE A NUMBER OF LOTS AND THEY RANGE IN SIZE OF HALF AN ACRE AND PROBABLY DOWN IN THE BOTTOM, JBS FIVE ACRES OR SO. SO, THERE'S A VARIETY ALONG THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND THERE'S CERTAINLY, UM, OTHER FARMS AND OTHER THINGS IN THE SAME COMMUNITY, SAME TYPES OF THINGS. JUST A LITTLE CLOSER LOOK, IT IT SHOWS YOU THE SITE ITSELF. AS WAS SAID, IT WAS PREVIOUSLY USED FOR A CHURCH THAT WAS ABANDONED AND ACTUALLY, MR. SMITH BOUGHT THE PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE FOR THEM, BUT, IT WAS, AND ALLY, HE WAS GOING TO REPAIR IT AND GOT INTO LOOKING INTO IT, AND, THERE WASN'T MUCH TO BE ABLE TO BE SAVED. IT HAD BEEN ABANDONED FOR QUITE SOME TIME. SO, THAT IS SAD FOR THEIR COMMUNITY, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT, THIS IS CLEARED AREA AND MR. SMITH DOES HAVE ONE MOBILE HOME ALREADY ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY, HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE IT, BECAUSE, WHEN HE APPLIES FOR THE FARMWORKER HOUSING, TO USE IT FOR THAT, THE SETBACKS ARE LARGER AND DIFFERENT. SO, HE'S ACTUALLY GOING, AND WE HAVE A SITE PLAN AND WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW THAT'S ALL GOING TO WORK.

>>> THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS A MIXTURE OF MOBILE HOMES AND, UM, SINGLE-FAMILY, STICK-BUILT HOMES AS WELL. SO, IMMEDIATELY TO THE, UM, SOUTH IS ANOTHER TWO MOBILE HOMES, ACROSS THE STREET IS A HOME THAT IS NOT OCCUPIED RIGHT NOW, BUT, THAT'S A STICK-BUILT HOME. SO, THERE'S QUITE A VARIETY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS OPEN RURAL ZONING, PHOT LAND USE, ALL A.I., THAT STAYS THE SAME, WON'T CHANGE AT ALL, JUST LIKE IT IS.

AND, THE ZONING, ALSO WILL STAY THE WAY THAT IT IS. OPEN RURAL.

OPEN RURAL, AS YOU KNOW ALLOWS FOR SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES. AND, ALSO FOR MOBILE HOMES BY RIGHT SO THERE'S NO SPECIAL USE FOR THAT. SO, THIS REQUEST IS ON THIS ONE ACRE, THAT WEST SIDE TO BE ABLE TO USE IT FOR FARM WORKER HOUSING. LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT CURRENTLY USED, BUT, IT WAS USED FOR THE CHURCH. AND THE PROPERTY IN THERE, AND THERE ARE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT MR. SMITH IS ALSO USING BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE A QUALIFY THEM AS FARM WORKER HOUSING. THE SMITH FAMILY OWNS OVER 1500 ACRES IN THAT AREA. AND, THEY HAVE FULL-TIME, PART-TIME, AND SEASONAL WORKERS. IN THE F FULL-TIME WORKERS ARE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS FOR, IT'S NOT THE SEASONAL, OR THE MIGRANT OR THE PART-TIME WORKERS, EITHER. IT'S IN THE -- IN THE PAST THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO RENT PLACES IN THE COMMUNITY. ECONOMICS HAVE LIMITED THAT, FOR THE EMPLOYEES TO BE ABLE TO, AND, THEY NEED TO ATTRACT EMPLOYEES, SOMETIMES FROM THE MIDWEST, FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO, THEY NEED A SOLID PLACE TO LIVE IN WITH THEIR FAMILIES WHEN THEY COME TO WORK AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS FOR. THIS IS NOT GROUP HOUSING, AND THIS IS NOT, LIKE I SAID, MIGRANT HOMES, THIS IS FOR TWO INDIVIDUAL FAMILIES BECAUSE WE'RE ASKING FOR TWO HOMES ON THIS. SO, THERE ARE LOTS OF CONDITIONS UNDER THE SPECIAL USE REQUIREMENTS, AND I'M SURE YOU'VE READ THROUGH THAT AND I JUST KIND OF PUT THEM INTO THE PROGRAM HERE. DISTANCES, YOU NEED TO BE WITHIN A MILE. I KIND OF STOLE THE MAP, TOO, THAT, UM, JUSTIN DID AS WELL.

[00:15:04]

THE REASON THAT MR. SMITH DOESN'T WANT TO DO STICK-BUILT HOMES IS THAT THERE ARE CONDITIONS TO THIS, HE CAN HAVE THE ONE THAT HE HAS, BUT, IF THINGS CHANGED AND HE WASN'T GOING TO, HE DIDN'T GET IT RENEWED TO BE ABLE TO USE IT, HE WOULD HAVE TO ELIMINATE ONE OF THE TWO HOMES. SO, DOING IT WITH A MOBILE HOME MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE THAN A STICK-BUILT HOME. PROPERTY WON'T BE SUBDIVIDED. AND, AGAIN, IT'S TWO FAMILIES, CALCULATED ABOUT 2.4 PEOPLE PER HOUSEHOLD.

THERE'S SOME SETBACKS THAT COME. I'VE GOT THE SITE PLAN TO SHOW YOU, THOSE ARE THE 50-FOOT THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT ARE THE AROUND THE, TOTAL PERIMETER OF THE SITE, AND THAT'S WHY THE ONE THAT'S RIGHT THERE HAS TO BE MOVED. SO, HE'S PUT IT UP AND STARTED TO PUT IT UP AND THEN DID NOT FINISH IT OFF WITH A GRASS YARD AND A DRIVEWAY AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. BUT, HE DOES HAVE PEOPLE USING IT BECAUSE HE HAD SOMEONE THAT NEEDED IT. SO, UM, AND, THE SEPARATION WE CERTAINLY MEET ANY SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO, UM, IT DOES FRONT ON AN UNPAVED, STABILIZED ROAD WHICH IS FOR ACCESS AND EACH ONE GETS A DRIVEWAY. AND, HE'S ALREADY MET WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, AND RECEIVED THE SEWAGE DISPOSAL FOR THE SEPTIC TANK FOR THE UNITS THAT ARE THERE AND DISCUSSED WITH HIM ABOUT THE SECOND UNIT AS WELL. SO, HE DO HE IS HAVE TO GET PERMITS THROUGH THE COUNTY TO MOVE THOSE ON. HE HAS TO SIGN AN AFFIDAVIT THAT HE LIMITS THE HOME TO ONE PER HOME. SO, THAT'S, THAT'S A SPECIFIC TYPE OF ITEM THAT MAYBE ADDRESSES SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HEARD. UM, AND THEN, HE HAS TO APPLY FOR THAT EXTENSION EVERY TWO YEARS, SO, AGAIN, HE HAS TO FILE THAT, AND JUST MAKE SURE IF THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS OR ANY CONDITIONS OR SOMETHING THAT COULD BE REVOKED BY THE COUNTY. AND, IF SO, THEN, HE HAS TO

REMOVE ONE OF THE TWO UNITS. >>> THIS IS THE SITE PLAN, BUT, A LITTLE CLOSER, AS I SAID, IT SHOWS THE SETBACKS REQUIRED.

THERE IT IS. SORRY. IT SHOWS THAT 50-FOOT SETBACK AROUND, IT SHOWS THESE AS TWO, TWO MOBILE HOMES WHICH ARE 52-FEET LONG OR WHATEVER AND OVER 68'BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. SO, THEY WILL ACTUALLY HAVE FRONT YARDS FACING EACH OTHER. SO, IT'S ALSO, YOU HAVE THE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO CAN BE GRANTED WITHOUT DETRIMENT TO THE PUBLIC GOOD. THESE ACTIVITIES CONSIST OF PROVIDING HOUSEWORK FOR FARM WORKER FAMILIES IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT'S PART OF A FARM COMMUNITY AND IT'S ALSO PART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD WHICH IS KIND OF NICE, RATHER THAN BEING ISOLATED OUT ON A FARM PIECE OF PROPERTY. AGAIN, THESE ARE PEOPLE T FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING TO LIVE THERE. SO, THE ADDITION OF THESE, OF THE ONE SINGLE FAMILY, OR, YOU KNOW, MOBILE HOME TO THE, TO MAKE THE TWO, UM, REALLY IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THAT

[00:20:05]

AND, IT WON'T HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT TO THE AREA. VERY MINIMAL TRAFFIC GENERATED AS, AGAIN, IT ALLOWS FOR TWO. THERE WOULD BE ONE, ALREADY T SO, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ONE SINGLE FAMILY TRAFFIC GENERATION. AND DOES HAVE ACCESS TO THE ROADS.

THEY WON'T BE CAUSING NUSANCE, AND IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF NUSANCE, CERTAINLY, ANYBODY ON BENNIE SMITH ROAD HAS A PROBLEM WITH IT CAN CONTACT MR. SMITH WHOSE OFFICES ARE RIGHT NEAR HERE AS WELL. AND HE WOULD WANT TO KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY KIND OF PROBLEMS. SO, AGAIN, IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD SITUATION SOMETHING THAT HE DOES HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER LOTS THAT HE'S ALSO PUTTING HOMES ON THOSE OTHER LOTS FOR, UM, PEOPLE BUT, AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE UNDER THE FARM WORKER HOUSING IN THE AG AREA, OR ZONING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, BARNS, GARAGES, AND STORAGE SHEDS ALONG WITH HOMES AND MOBILE HOMES AS YOU WOULD THINK IN A RURAL COMMUNITY LIKE THIS. THIS IS A SITE VIEW LOOKING WEST OF THE HOUSE ON THAT STREET THAT FACES 13 SOUTH.

AND THIS IS LOOKING THE OTHER WAY THERE'S A CHURCH RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD FROM HERE AND YOU COULD KIND OF SEE WHERE IT STARTS TO CLEAR, THAT'S WHERE THE FARMLANDS STARTMENT THIS IS, UM, BENNIE SMITH ROAD, THIS IS LOOKING SOUTH AND HALFWAY DOWN THE ROAD YOU COULD SEE THERE'S A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON ONE SIDE.

OVER HERE, AND THERE'S A MOBILE HOME OPPOSITE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

UM, THIS IS KIND OF I JUST TURNED AROUND AND YOU COULD SEE THE, UM, TWO SINGLE THOSE ARE TWO MOBILE HOMES AS WELL THAT ARE ON THAT WESTSIDE OF THE ROAD. IF YOU GO, YOU COULD SEE THE HOUSE THAT'S ACROSS FROM HIM ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE ROAD AS WELL AS THE PERSON TO THE SOUTH, UM, THAT'S ALSO KIND OF A DILAPIDATED STRUCTURE, NOBODY LIVES THERE. BUT, YOU COULD SEE THE MOBILE HOME THAT HE'S INSTALLED THAT, AGAIN, HAS TO BE MOVED. JUST SOME OF THE FARMLANDS, THESE ARE THE FARMLANDS RIGHT THERE, NEXT TO IT. SOME OF THOSE ARE ON COPPER BRANCH ROAD, AND THERE ARE FILEDS FOR CATTLE GRAZING. AND WAY DOWN HERE, YOU COULD SEE WHERE HIS OFFICES ARE. JUST ALL

[00:25:02]

AND MEETS ALL THE GUIDELINES, SO, WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOUR APPROVAL FOR ALL OF THIS. AND I HOPE THAT I'VE ANSWERED ENOUGH QUESTIONS FOR THE TWO GENTLEMEN THAT SPOKE. UM, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS PRETTY STANDARD AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING, HOPEFULLY, THAT IS DISRUPTIVE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN ANY WAY.

THAT IS NOT MR. SMITH'S INTENTION. IT'S, AND, AGAIN, IT'S, IT WILL BE QUALIFIED AS THAT FOR THE FARM WORKER, BUT, IT'S FARM WORKER FAMILY HOUSING AND IT SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT IN THE SPECIAL USE INFORMATION IN YOUR PACKET. SO, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM OR MR. SMITH COULD

ALSO ANSWER THEM. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR QUESTIONS. COMMENTS? THIS IS NOT WORKING TODAY, SO, YOU'LL HAVE TO JUST WORK WITH ME.

>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

>> CHAIR: DR. HILSENBECK? >> KAREN, AS GREAT JOB LAYING IT OUT CLEARLY AND YOU ANSWERED VIRTUALLY ALL OF MY QUESTIONS THAT I HAD WRITTEN DOWN DURING YOUR PRESENTATION. UM, AND YOUR PHOTOS ARE ALWAYS GREAT, TOO.

THANK YOU, IT GIVE US A GOOD VIEW OF THE PROPERTY. THIS IS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL, BUT, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE TWO GENTLEMEN THAT SPOKE EARLIER IF THEY COULD COME FORWARD FOR JUST 30 SECONDS OR SO, AND ASK THEM IF THEY ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED YOUR CONCERNS WITH THIS HOUSING, BECAUSE, SHE ADDRESSED MINE, SO, I'M JUST CURIOUS ON WHAT Y'ALL THINK.

>> CHAIR: COME ON UP. >>> YES. I GUESS MY CONCERN WAS ABOUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. I THINK THAT I WROTE DOWN SOME NOTES SECTION 2.03.08-A, AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITIES, SO, THE FARMERS CAN USE THE LAND FOR LIKE, AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITIES, I

THINK THAT I READ -- IS THAT? >> NO, THEY WON'T BE DOING ANY FARMING ON THERE OR AGRICULTURAL THINGS ON THEIR SITES.

>> OKAY. >> IN OPEN RURAL ZONING, IT IS CONSIDERED AGRICULTURAL, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CAN KEEP CHICKENS, AND YOU COULD HAVE YOUR GARDEN AND HAVE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

IT'S NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR A HORSE. THERE ARE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS FOR THAT OR FARM ANIMALS OR ANYTHING. SO, NO, THEY WOULDN'T BE DOING ANY OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

>> OKAY. WELL, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY CONCERNS. SOME OF THE POINTS WE'RE NOT YOU KNOW, UP THERE,

BUT, I, YOU KNOW. >> THAT'S JUST THE ZONING CATEGORY. YEAH. SO, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT APPLIES TO YOU AND YOUR HOUSE THAT YOU BOUGHT, YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU BOUGHT, THE SAME AS IT WOULD APPLY FOR THEM.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

>>> MY CONCERN WAS THE 15 ACRES OF THIS AREA, THE AREA THAT WAS ESTABLISHED, THE 1500 ACRES OF FARMLAND FOR AN AREA THAT COULD BE USED, WHY THAT PARTICULAR AREA WOULD HAVE THOSE HISTORICAL AREAS WITH THE CHURCH THAT WAS ABANDONED, BUT, WE CAN'T REPLACE GENERATIONS OF WHAT THAT CHURCH MEANT TO THE COMMUNITY AT THAT

TIME. >> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> BUT, THAT WAS MY CONCERN. >> AGAIN, THESE ARE FAMILIES AND RATHER THAN LIVING -- SO, THOSE KINDS OF REQUIREMENTS ON THE FARMLANDS, THEY HAVE AREAS OF USE AS WELL. THEY CUT OUT AN ACRE FOR SOME OF THAT. MR. SMITH THOUGH AND HIS SONS

[00:30:03]

BUT... >> YES. I UNDERSTAND.

>> AND, SO. IT'S A SHAME. >> MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: LET ME SAY IT LIKE THIS, IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BENNIE SMITH ROAD, OFF OF COUNTY ROAD 13, THAT WAS MY CONCERN.

THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT CLOSER TO THEIR PROPERTY AS WELL, AS

OPPOSED TO BENNIE SMITH ROAD. >> IT'S VERY CLOSE TO THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY OWN A NUMBER OF LOTS THERE ON BENNIE SMITH

ROAD. >> THAT'S MY POINT.

>> THANK YOU. >> OKAY. AND AS I SAID, THAT WAS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL TO ALLOW THAT. AND THANK YOU FOR ENTERTAINING THOSE QUESTIONS FROM THEM. AND I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF MR. SMITH LIVED ANYWHERE IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOTS AND YOU SAID HIS OFFICES ARE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.

>> HIS OFFICES ARE (INAUDIBLE) >> DO YOU WANT TO COME AND

POINT YOUR'S OUT? >> CHAIR: THAT'S NOT NECESSARY. AS LONG AS THERE'S AN OFFICE THERE, WE COULD CONTACT HIM IF THERE WAS NOISE AFTER 11:00 OR SOMETHING.

>>> THAT WOULD BE TO THE EAST, THAT'S THE MAIN OFFICE AND SHOP AND EVERYTHING. IN THAT LOWER Q QUADRANT, I LIVE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. AND IT

MIGHT SAY. >> I'M WESLEY SMITH AND I LIVE AT 8770 COUNTY ROAD 13 SOUTH, WHICH IS RIGHT ACROSS FROM THAT CIRCLE. BUT, THE CHURCH, UM, I LIKE HISTORY, TOO. AND WE LOOKED AT IT, AND IT WAS, UM, IT WAS A HAZARD. IT WAS, UM, YOU COULDN'T GO IN AND WALK AROUND, YOU WOULD FALL THROUGH THE FLOOR. AND, SO, IT WAS NOT USEABLE, IT WAS NOT ACCESSIBLE.

AND, UM, THERE WAS NO, THEY HAD DONE A FOUNDATION TO ADD ON YEARS AND YEARS AGO, AND BY THE WAY, WERE YOU A MEMBER OF THE

CHURCH? (INAUDIBLE) >> THE DEMOLITION AND IMPROVED

IT AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS. >> BACK TO YOU.

>> I JUST HAVE ONE THING TO SAY. IT'S CHRISTMAS. AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION NOW. I WISH THAT YOU HAD HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THEM BEFORE, MAYBE EASE THEIR MINDS A BIT. BUT, I DO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT HAPPENS.

BUT, I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE THESE GENTLEMEN TO LOOK AT THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET PEOPLE AND MAKE NEW NEIGHBORS AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW THE CHURCH IS THERE AND THAT REPRESENTS GOD'S LOVE AND THAT THERE MIGHT BE NEW PEOPLE. THEY MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT BUT PEOPLE THAT NEED TO FEEL PART OF A COMMUNITY AS WELL. I JUST WANTED TO ENCOURAGE THAT. THANK YOU.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, KAREN, AND IT GETS RENEWED EVERY TWO YEARS IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YES. >> CHAIR

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT. >> IT WOULD NEED TO COME BACK TO THIS AGENCY FOR THEM TO GET AN EXTENDED, IF THAT'S THE CASE.

>> SO, EVERY TWO YEARS THEY'RE BACK?

>> YES, SIR. >> FOREVER?

>> YES, SIR, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THE FARM WORKER HOUSING

THERE. YES, SIR. >> THAT'S WITH A I MEAN.

>> I THOUGHT THAT WE JUST FILED SOMETHING.

>> NOPE, IT'S A SPECIAL. >> NO, MA'AM, IT WOULD NEED TO COME BACK TO THIS AGENCY FOR THEM TO REVIEW IT. A LOT OF THAT, A LOT OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF CIRCUMSTANCES MAY CHANGE IN THE GENERAL AREA. SO, YOU MAY WANT TO SEE IT AND WHAT THE CODE

[00:35:01]

>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. >> GOOD QUESTION.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU. >>> SO, YOU COULD SEE DOWN, SIR.

THANK YOU. >> I HAVE A LITTLE SOMETHING TO

ADD. >> CHAIR: SURE.

>> JUST ABOVE WHERE YOU SEE THE SITE IN QUESTION HERE, THERE'S TWO VACANT 50-FOOT LOTS AND IN THAT HOUSE THEY FRONTED ON 13, THAT GENTLEMAN THAT OWNS THAT HOUSE, HE'S THE ONLY PERSON HE'S EVER WORKED FOR. HE GREW UP, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, HE'S FAMILY. HE LIVES THERE, AND, UM, WE'RE IN THE ENVIRONMENT YOU NEED GOOD PEOPLE. YOU NEED GOOD MANAGERS, AND TO REALLY SUPPORT THAT AND HELP THAT ALONG, HAVING A RESIDENCE FOR THEM, AND THIS IS, LONG-TERM, THIS IS NOT SEASONAL. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE KIND OF HAVING TO GO WITH THE FARMING OPERATION TO MAINTAIN SUSTAINABILITY. AND SO, THAT'S, THIS IS WHERE THAT ALL DERIVED

FROM. >> THANK YOU, VERY MUCH FOR

YOUR CONSIDERATION. >> THANK YOU.

>> . >> CHAIR: OKAY. WE'RE BACK TO PUBLIC COMMENT IF THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS NOW'S YOUR TIME.

>> WELL, GOT SORT OF OUT OF ORDER EARLY ON AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET BACK IN ORDER. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> YES, I WILL. I'M CHARLEY HUNT AND I'M AT 5135 SILO ROAD.

IF THIS PLAN GOES THROUGH ABOUT PUTTING IN THE TWO MOBILE HOMES, COULD IT BE EXTENDED TO TWO ADDITIONAL ONES PUT IN THERE? AND, MAYBE I MISSED A PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THAT PROPERTY, IF THE TWO MOBILE HOMES THERE, ARE THEY GOING TO SHARE, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S GOING TO BE A SEPTIC OUT IN THAT COUNTRY. ARE THEY GOING TO SHARE THAT SEPTIC, OR, WILL THEY HAVE EACH THEIR OWN? AND ALSO, WITH POWER AND WELL, WOULD BE NO BIG ISSUE, BUT, UM, YEAH, SO, WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR THE SEPTIC OF THAT SITE WITH MOBILE HOMES AND IN TWO OR FOUR YEARS, CAN THEY PUT TWO MORE MOBILE HOMES IN THERE? ADDITIONALLY, IF THEY STAYED FOR ROTATIONAL WORKERS, OR, PEOPLE WHO STAY OUT THERE OR LIVE OUT THERE, MAYBE BE AN ON-SITE SUPERVISOR TO AN EXTENT IN THEIR FARMING AGENCY, WHY DON'T THEY GET THEM FROM AROUND HERE? SOMEBODY COULD GO WORK OUT THERE. HAVE THEM A GOOD JOB, THERE'S A HOME FOR YOU, YOU LIVE THERE, WORK FOR US, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF YOU. THAT'S BECOMING A VERY, UM, A VERY, UM, SHADOWED APPEARANCE ON HOW PROPERTIES ARE BROUGHT UP BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SAY, YOU HAVE TO LIVE HERE, NO, MAKE IT AFFORDABLE. IT IS AFFORDABLE. LET THEM COME IN.

YOU WANT TO WORK? YOU WANT A JOB? AS THE GENTLEMAN SAID, ACROSS 13, A GENTLEMAN WAS RIGHT THERE AND WORKED FOR HIS FAMILY.

PUT IT TO THEM LIKE THAT. HAVE A STRUCTURE OF PUTTING OUT SAYING, YOU WANT TO COME OUT AND WORK WITH US, YOU LIVE IN A MOBILE HOME AND BRING YOUR FAMILY. THAT'S THE EASY WAY TO DO IT. THAT'S THE EASY WAY TO NOT WORRY ABOUT WHETHER IT'S LEGAL OR ILLEGAL MIGRANT WORKERS COMING IN AND OUT OF THAT FACILITY. OKAY. AND HAVING TO TAKE CARE AND KEEP UP THE UPKEEP OF IT. SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S MY CONCEPT OF THAT PROPERTY. THERE'S OTHER WAYS OF HAVING A PERMANENT PERSON OUT THERE INSTEAD OF HAVING ROTATIONAL PEOPLE COMING AND

GOING OUT OF THAT. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU. ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? IF NOT, KAREN WOULD YOU LIKE TO REBUT?

>>> JUST TO ANSWER SOME OF HIS QUESTIONS. NO, THERE CAN'T BE AADDITIONAL. THIS IS ONLY FOR ONE ACRE. AND THIS IS ONE ACRE, TWO MAX. AND SECONDLY, HE ASKED ABOUT THE SEPTIC TANKS AND THE, UM, HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS PERMITTED ONE PER UNIT. SO,

[00:40:02]

FARM. ANYWAY. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR COMMENT AND A MOTION?

>> CHAIR: HENRY? >> I'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE A SPECIAL USE 2023-12, BENNIE SMITH ROAD FARM WORKER'S HOUSING BASED ON FINDINGS AND SUBJECT TO NINE CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

>> SECOND. >> CHAIR: AND WE'VE A SECOND

BY MR. PIERRE. >> I JUST WANT TO COMMENT THAT I'M GOING TO ABSTAIN BECAUSE I MISSED THE INITIAL TESTIMONY AND

DIDN'T HEAR 100%. >> OKAY. THEN, TERESA, WILL YOU DO THE ROLL CALL VOTE SINCE THIS IS NOT WORKING.

>> YES, SIR. USE THE ROLL CALL VOTE.

>> IT'S NOT WORKING. SO, WHEN YOUR NAME IS CALLED...

>> OKAY, MR. PETER? AS CHAIR, YOU CAN CALL THEIR NAMES.

[2. MINMOD 2023-13 Radcliff Pool.]

>> I WOULD LIKE THE STAFF TO CALL THE NAMES, PLEASE.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. >>> SPIEGEL?

>> YES. >> DR. HILSENBECK?

>> YES. >> MR. PETER?

>> YES. >> MR. MATOVINA?

>> I ABSTAIN? >> MR. PIERRE?

>> YES. >> MR. GREEN?

>> YES. >> CHAIR: MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. THANK YOU. OKAY, MOVING ONTO ITEM 2. SHANE R

RADCLIFF. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, I'M SHRADCLF WE'RE SEEKING A MINOR MODIFICATION ON A SWIMMING POOL TO BE A FIVE FOOT SETBACK. AS YOU COULD SEE ON WE HAD TO PUSH THAT HOUSE BACK WHICH GAVE US HARDLY ANY REAR YARD. SO, WE'RE SEEKING TO GO THREE FEAT WITHIN THE PROPERTY LINE WITH A POOL.

WHICH WOULD ONLY GIVE US A (INAUDIBLE) WE COULD ACTUALLY PUT WE WOULD HAVE TO GO FOUR FEET FROM THE HOUSE BECAUSE THE POOL'S FOUR FEET DEEP. WE'RE TRYING TO FIT THE BEST POOL THAT WE CAN IN ON THIS SITE. BUT, WE'RE DOING LIMITATIONS TO MAINTAIN IT, TO KEEP IT AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. BUT, WE DO NEED TO GO WITHIN THE FIVE FOOT BUFFER TO GET ANY POOL IN THERE AT ALL. HERE'S PHOTOS OF THE REAR YARD, WE'RE THE EDGE OF THE POOL WOULD BE 8 FEET OFFER OF THE TOP OF THE BANK AND WE'RE 30 FEET TO THE WATER LINE. SO, IT WOULD BE 22 FEET ACROSS THE TOP OF THE BANK TO THE WATER LINE. AND HERE'S ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SITE ITSELF, YOU COULD SEE THE RIGHT, REAR OF THE HOME IS ONLY 13'OFF OF THE PROPERTY LINE.

> AS FAR AS THE ZONING CODE VARIANCE, THE EFFECTIVE DRAINING AND THE FELL FAIR OF THE COMMUNITY, IT WILL NOT AFFECT THE PROPERTY VALUES, IN FAKE, IT MAY INCREASE THE PROPERTY VALUES. IT IS THE VARIANCE FOR THE IRREGULARLY SHAPED LOT. THE ONLY WAY THICKET FIT IS POOL OF ANY SIZE

[00:45:01]

>> FOR THE VARIANCE. >> (INAUDIBLE)

>> IS ANYONE. >> CHAIR: WE'RE BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS?

>> IT LOOKS LIKE IN LOOKING AT THIS IT'S JUST THE VERY BACK

CORNER THAT NEEDS THE VICIOUS? >> YEAH.

>> AND IT WEDGES OUT? >> CORRECT, IT IS THE RIGHT

CORNER THAT NEEDS THE VARIANCE. >> THANK YOU.

>> WHY COULDN'T YOU SLIDE THAT POOL TO THE LEFT?

>> THERE ARE THREE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS THAT SET IN

THERE. >> AND YOU COULDN'T RELOCATE

THE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS? >> YEAH, AT A SUBSTANTIAL COST.

>> THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: ANYONE ELSE? ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ISSUE? IF NOT, WE'RE BACK TO THE AGENCY

FOR FINAL COMMENTS AND A MOTION. >> I'LL MOVE IT. MOTION TO APPROVE MINOR MOD 2023-13 RADCLIFF ROAD BASED ON SEVEN FINDINGS FACT AND SUBJECT TO SEVEN CONDITIONS PROVIDED IN THE

[3. MINMOD 2023-15 ABC Fine Wine and Spirits]

STAFF REPORT. >> SECOND.

>> CHAIR: WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ROLL CALL?

>>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> YES.

>> DR. HILSENBECK? >> YES.

>> MR. PETER? >> YES.

>> MR. MATOVINA? >> NO.

>> MR. PIERRE? >> YES.

>> MR. GREEN? >> YES.

>> CHAIR: MOTION CARRIES 5-1. CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU, GUYS, VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE IT.

>>> OKAY. WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM 3 ON THE AGENDA. MS. WILLIAMS?

ABC FINE WINE AND SPIRITS. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, ALLISON WILLIAMS WITH FRANKLIN, 6300 HAZEL TREE NATIONAL DRIVE, ORLANDO, FLORIDA. I'M HERE TO PRESENT AND REQUEST APPROVAL FOR THE MINOR MODIFICATION FOR THE 2023-18. ABC FINE WHINE AND

SPIRITS. >> THE SITE IS LOCATED WEST OF PESETTI ROAD AND SOUTH OF STATE ROAD 16. THE SITE IS APPROXIMATELY 2 ACRES ON LOT TWO OF SIX MILE CREEK PUD, AND THE PUD DOES ALLOW THE RETAIL SALES OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, HOWEVER WE'RE REQUESTING TO WAVE THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT TO A CHURCH AND/OR SCHOOL. THE SITE HAS A ZONING OF PUD, AND A FUTURE LAND USE OF ST. JOHNS'S DRI. AND WE ARE REQUESTING A MINOR MODIFICATION, TO WAVE THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT FROM 1,000 FEET FROM A CHURCH OR A SCHOOL. THERE IS ONE PLACE OF WORSHIP WITHIN ONE THOUSAND FEET OF THE PROJECT SITE, SPECIFICALLY 40 FEET, TWO CHILDHOOD EARLY EDUCATION CENTERS, AT 124 FEET AND 922 FEET AND ONE EDUCATIONAL FACILITY WITHIN 1,000 FEET OF THE PROJECT SITE AND 900 AND FAINT FEET. THE KINDERCARE IS TECHNICALLY A DAY CARE AND IT IS UNDER DIFFERENT STANDARDS FROM SCHOOLS, AND THEREFORE, EXEMPT FROM THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS.

THE PROPOSED PROJECT SITE IS COMMERCIAL IN NATURE AND WOULD PROVIDE ENHANCED DIVERSITY AND A MIX OF BUSINESSES THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BUSINESSES IN THE AREA THAT DO SELL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES FOR OFF SITE CONSUMPTION INCLUDING THE PUBLIX LIQUOR STORE AND THE. WE'RE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE

[00:50:02]

AGENCY OR THE PUBLIC. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU.

EX-PARTE? >> NONE.

>> NONE. >> I DID JUST DO A SITE VISIT.

>> CHAIR: ALL RIGHT. WE'RE BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR

QUESTIONS. >> YOU DID CLARIFY THAT THE PUBLIX LIQUOR STORE, THERE, VERY CLOSE BY DOES SELL HARD LIQUOR AS WELL. HOW ABOUT THE CVS? MOST CVS STORES I KNOW

IT'S WINE. >> I DON'T BELIEVE THEY SELL HARD LIQUOR, BUT, I KNOW THEY SELL WINE AND BEER AND SELTZERS.

>> OKAY. WE'VE APPROVED A LOT OF THESE CLOSER THAN A THOUSAND FEET FROM A CHURCH, BUT, 40 FEET IS CLOSE. BUT, I SAW THAT THE PASTOR OF THAT CHURCH WROTE A LETTER SUPPORTING IT.

>> YES, SIR, WE HAVE E-MAIL CORRESPONDENCE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. THAT THE PASTOR HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE PROPOSED SITE. AND IT IS 40 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, UM, BUT, IT IS, ROUGHLY 80 FEET FROM OUR PROPERTY LINE TO THE ACTUAL

BUILDING OF THE CHURCH. >> OKAY. I THINK IT'S PROPERTY

LINE TO PROPERTY LINE. >> YES, SIR.

>> AND SO, HOW FAR IS YOUR NEW STORE GOING TO BE FROM THE

PUBLIX LIQUOR STORE. >> WELL, THAT PASSES PACETI ROAD SO I WOULD SAY, SEVERAL HUNDRED FEET.

>> HELLO. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS ON THIS SPECIAL USE CAN BE GRANTED, IT SAYS IN HERE BY SUBMISSION IN THE STAFF REPORT, PAGE 5, THE SPECIAL USE CAN BE GRANTED WITHOUT SPECIAL SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT TO THE PUBLIC GOOD AND WILL NOT SUBSTANTIALLY IMPAIR THE INTENT OR PURPOSE OF THE STAGE COUNTY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WITH THIS CODE. AND I DID READ THROUGH YOUR SUBMISSION CAREFULLY. I DON'T ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SEE THE NEED FOR THIS PROJECT. I HAVE A LITTLE CONCERN WITH GRANTING A MODIFICATION OF A PUD WHERE THERE'S A CHURCH NEXTDOOR WHO HAS A PASTOR WHOSE OKAY WITH IT, BUT, PASTORS DON'T ALWAYS STICK AROUND. WHAT IF A NEW PASTOR HAS A PROBLEM WITH HAVING A LIQUOR STORE 40 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE CHURCH.

WITH THE SCHOOL, IT'S CLOSER THAN THE ACTUAL PUBLIC SCHOOL BUT THERE'S AN ACADEMY DAYCARE THERE AND THE KINDERCARE RIGHT NEXT DOOR. BUT, GETTING BACK TO ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE BURDEN WAS ON YOU TO PROVE WHY YOU MEET THAT AND THE ANSWER THAT YOU GAVE WHICH, I'M SURE, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A BETTER ANSWER, SO, I'LL JUST GIVE YOU THAT OPPORTUNITY, YOUR ANSWER TO WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT WAS THE PROPOSED COMMERCIAL RETAIL BUILDING, ALTHOUGH WITHIN A THOUSAND SEPARATION BETWEEN EXISTING WILL NOT IMPAIR THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR THIS CODE. I DON'T SEE AN ANSWER THERE. HOW WILL IT NOT IMPAIR? SO, CAN YOU EXTRAPOLATE ON THAT?

>> SO, IT WON'T IMPAIR THE DETRIMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA, IT'S COMMERCIAL IN NATURE AND ADD A MIX OF DIVERSITY TO THE COMMERCIAL USES IN THAT AREA.

ABC IS A FAMILY-OWNED BUSINESS AND IT IS COMMITTED TO ENHANCING THE DIVERSITY OF USES IN AN AREA AND TO THE COMMUNITY. IT IS COMMERCIAL AND IT IS ALLOWED IN THE PUD. WE'RE ONLY REQUESTING THE WAIVER. SO, WE DO HAVE THE RIGHT, BY RIGHT IT IS PERMITTED.

IT'S JUST THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT THAT WE'RE SEEKING.

>> SO, WITHOUT THE WAIVER, THOUGH, SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BUILD IT. DID YOU KNOW IF THE PUBLIX IS ACTUALLY WITHIN 1,000 FEET ALSO AND WAS IT APPROVED?

>> I BELIEVE, I HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF, AND THEY DID HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU, VERY MUCH. >>>.

>> CHAIR: OKAY. AT THIS TIME, WE WILL OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT, ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC?

>> CHUCK LIEBENOWSKI. JUST TO ANSWER A FEW QUESTIONS, THE PUBLIX LIQUOR STORE IS OUTSIDE OF THE ONE THOUSAND FOOT REQUIREMENT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

CAN WE SEE THE OVERHEAD. THANK YOU? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING

[00:55:04]

THIS IS WHERE THE CHURCH IS. WHAT WASN'T BROUGHT UP, MILLCREEK STUDENTS, WALK FROM SCHOOL TO THE CHURCH FIVE DAYS A WEEK RIGHT AFTER SCHOOL TO ATTEND CLASSES THERE. SO, IT'S NOT OFFICIALLY A SCHOOL, BUT, THEY ARE ATTENDING CLASSES THERE AND THEY WALK THAT DISTANCE. SO, COMPATIBILITY, I'M NOT SURE.

YOU KNOW, HOW MANY LIQUOR STORES DO WE NEED WITHIN A HALF MILE OF EACH OTHER? HOW MANY NAIL SALONS TO WE NEED WITHIN A HALF MILE OF EACH OTHER? PIZZA, THE SAME. EVERYTHING IS GOING INTO THAT AREA, I THINK WE'VE GOT SEVEN PIZZA PLACES THERE NOW.

DO WE NEED ANOTHER LIQUOR STORE? THE CVS SELLS WINE, THEY DON'T SELL THE LIQUOR, BUT, THERE IS ANOTHER LIQUOR STORE WHICH IS OUTSIDE THAT THOUSAND FEET. WE DON'T NEED ONE INSIDE THAT THOUSAND FEET BECAUSE OF THE SCHOOL, THE DAYCARE, AND THE OTHER SURROUNDING AREAS. LOCATION WISE, THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING HERE, WHY NOT GO DOWN HERE TO THE CONFERENCE CENTER? THAT'S THE IDEAL SITUATION, AND THAT'S EASY ACCESS, IN AND OUT. AND WHEN TALKING ABOUT IN AND OUT, THIS IS WHERE THEIR DRIVEWAY IS GOING IN AND OUT IN THAT LOCATION.

NOW, IF THEY WANT TO GO AND MAKE, GO BACK, TOWARDS 16, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT AND IMMEDIATELY GET INTO THE LEFT LANE TO GO DOWN TO THE INTERSECTION TO MAKE A U-TURN.

THAT IS NOT SAFE. WE HAD THAT SAME SITUATION RIGHT NOW GOING

ON WITH PUBLIX. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU.

>> I DO HAVE ANOTHER EX-PARTE TO DISCLOSE, I DID HAVE E-MAIL

PANCETTI ROAD. >> THROUGH THE CHAIR, I WANT TO BE SURE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT CAME THROUGH ON THE MIC.

PLANNER, MARY COLI, CONFIRMED THAT THE PUBLIX DOES HAVE THE SAME WAIVER THAT IS BEING REQUESTED IN THE ITEM.

>> CHAIR: YES, SIR. >> I'M CHARLES HUNT FROM 5135 SILO ROAD. SO, YES, TECHNICALLY, I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THIS ABC LIQUOR STORE WILL BE AT. AND YES, I STOPPED AND SPOKE TO THE PASTOR AND HE HAD TO PULL IN THE NEUTRALITY OF THE ABC LIQUOR GOING THERE NEXT TO THAT PLACE OF WORSHIP. NOW, I UNDERSTAND, YES, AND READING THE CODES OF, UM, OF THE LDC ABOUT ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, AND, YES. NURSERIES, DAYCARE, ISSUES LIKE THAT, THEY'RE NOT VIABLE MEANS. SO, A LIQUOR STORE COULD BE NEXT TO IT. BUT, HOW MANY PEOPLE WANT THEIR KIDS TO BE NEXT TO A LIQUOR STORE? AND I'VE STOPPED THERE AT KINDERCARE AND THEY'VE SAID THERE ARE OTHERS CONCERNED ABOUT IT. OKAY? THAT'S WHAT IT IS. UM, NOW, AS CHUCK WAS SAYING, THE ACCESSIBILITY, RIGHT HERE T IS THE ABC ON RRACE TRAC ROAD. THE ACCESSIBILITY TO THAT, WE'VE GOT RACE TRACK ROAD 1, 2, 3, 4, RACE TRACK ROAD ALL THE ACCESS BUILDINGS IS QUICK AND EASY TO GET IN AND OUT OF THAT AREA RIGHT THERE. NOW, THIS ONE, YES. HERE'S, WHERE

[01:00:08]

AND THEN IT SHOWS THAT THERE MIGHT BE A SIGNS RIGHT THERE AND A SIGN RIGHT THERE FROM THE LIQUOR STORE, HOW BIG WILL THE SIGNS BE? WHAT WILL THEY LOOK LIKE? WILL THEY BE ILLUMINATED IT THIS SIGN IS ON RACE TRACK ROAD AND I MEASURED 9'X 8'TALL.

OUTRAGES. NOT REGULATED OR USED RELATIVELY OF ACTIVITY OF SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENTAL IMPACT. A SPECIAL USE SHALL BE APPROVED.

THE SPECIAL USE OF THE REGULATED ACTIVITY WILL CAUSE NUISANCE.

TRAFFIC GENERATION, OPERATION OF HOUR, NOISE, OUTDOOR LIGHTING.

>> CHAIR: THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

>> CHAIR: THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO COMMENT ON THIS AGENDA ITEM? IF NOT, MR. WILLIAMS WOULD YOU LIKE TO

COME UP FOR REBUTTAL? >> JUST TO ANSWER A COUPLE OF THOSE QUESTIONS. THIS WAS A MASTER PLANNED DEVELOPMENT SO, THAT ACCESS POINT WAS ALREADY APPROVED PRIOR TO THE PROPOSED USE BEING PROPOSED. SO, ANY BUSINESS THAT GOES IN THERE WILL HAVE THAT DEVELOPMENT ACCESS. IT'S ALSO ACCESSED OFF OF REGISTRY BOULBOULEVARD TO THE S. SO, THAT WILL ALWAYS BE THE ACCESS POINT AT THAT SITE, REGARDLESS OF THE PROPOSED USE.

SECONDLY, AS WE STATED, IT IS A KINDERCARE, A DAYCARE, IT'S NOT A SCHOOL SO NOT SUBJECT TO THE SAME DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS AS A SCHOOL. SO, THAT'S NOT APPLICABLE IN THIS INSTANCE.

AND THE OTHER SCHOOL THAT WE ARE WAIVING A DISTANCE REQUIREMENT

FROM IS 990 FEET. >> CHAIR: OKAY.

>> THANK YOU, VERY MUCH. >> CHAIR: DO YOU HAVE A DRIVE-IN OR IS THIS STRICTLY WALK-IN.

>> IT IS STRICTLY A WALK-IN. >> I KNOW MOST OF THE ABC'S

ARE. >> THEY'RE PHASING OUT THAT

DRIVE-THRU IN MOST. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

>> CHAIR: BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR COMMENT AND A MOTION.

>> YES, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO READ FROM THE STAFF REPORT THE SUGGESTED FINDINGS TO APPROVE. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO READ NUMBER TWO, A PROREX OF IT SAYS, WITH ARTICLE 12 DEFINING A ZONING VARIANCE, COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE SUBMITTED TO REPORT A SPECIAL CONDITION ON THE PROPERTY SUCH AS LITERAL ENFORCE THE OF THE CODE WOULD PRODUCE A HARDSHIP AS DEFINED BY THE CODE AND THAT DENYING THE APPLICATION WOULD BE CONTRARY TO THE CODE.

AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT BURDEN HAS BEEN MET. AND I'M ALSO REPRESENTING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND IF THERE'S A QUESTION THAT IT MIGHT AFFECT SCHOOLS AND A CHURCH, I'M PROBABLY VOTING

AGAINST THIS ONE. THANK YOU. >> WELL, WHEN I FIRST READ THIS ITEM I WAS ON THE FENCE ABOUT IT, BECAUSE OF THE 40 FEET WHICH IS MUCH CLOSER THAN WE'VE EVER APPROVED. BUT, THEN, THE PROXIMITY TO THE SCHOOLS ALSO, AND THEN THE MATERIAL THAT MR. LEBINOSKI BROUGHT UP ABOUT CHILDREN WALKING BY THERE TO GO TO THE CHURCH FOR AFTER SCHOOL LESSONS OR WHATEVER KIND OF EDUCATION THEY'RE GETTING THERE. THAT'S A CONCERN TO ME. YOU DID SAY THERE WAS A SECONDARY ACCESS ON THE ENTRANCE INTO THE KING AND BEAR RIGHT THERE ON REGISTRY BOULEVARD, CAN YOU SHOW THAT?

IS IT A BACK ENTRANCE? >> YES, SIR, SO, THERE'LL BE AN ENTRANCE UNDER REGISTRY BOULEVARD, I DON'T HAVE THE ZOOMED OUT VERSION OF THE CONCEPT PLAN, SO, I APOLOGIZE, BUT, I BELIEVE ON REGISTRY BOULEVARD, THERE'S GOING TO BE A

[01:05:01]

ABC FROM THE REAR. >> CHAIR: ANYBODY ELSE?

>> I WOULD LIKE A CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF. THE SUGGESTING FINDINGS ADD TO THAT, THE QUESTION OF HARDSHIP. AND, I'M QUESTIONING WHETHER THAT REALLY APPLIES, BECAUSE, I DON'T THINK IN THE PAST WE'VE USED HARDSHIP AS A CRITERIA FOR EVALUATING A REQUEST FOR VARIANCES. (INAUDIBLE)

>> I DON'T REMEMBER US USING HARDSHIP FOR CHANGING THE

DISTANCE REQUIREMENT. >> THROUGH THE CHAIR? I THINK THAT MAYBE AN ERROR IN THE FINDINGS, BECAUSE, THAT HARDSHIP TEST IS FOR VARIANCES. AND THIS IS NOT A VARIANCE. SO, IT MAY HAVE BEEN A CUT AND PASTE WHERE SOMEONE PUT IN THE WRONG THING.

SO, THAT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR THE MINMOD.

>> THANK YOU. >> .

>> CHAIR: WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION?

>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE MINOR MODIFICATION ABC WINE AND SPIRITS BASED ON SIX FINDINGS OF FACTS AND CONDITIONS AS PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT, EXCEPT FOR, I DON'T FIND THAT THE VARIANCE CRITERIA IS MET ACCORDING TO THE STAFF IT IS NOT

REQUIRED. >> CHAIR: DO WE HAVE A

SECOND? >> I'LL SECOND IT.

>> CHAIR: VOTE? >> MS. SPIEGEL?

>> NO. >> DR. HILSENBECK?

>> NO. >> MR. PETER?

>> YES. >> MR. MATOVINA?

[4. REZ 2023-16 Mills Workforce Housing (WH). ]

>> YES. >> MR. PIERRE?

>> NO. >> MR. GREEN?

>> YES. >> .

>> CHAIR: 3-3, SO, IT GOES TO THE BOARD.

>> 3-3 IS A TECHNICAL DENIAL. AS A MINMOD IT'S DENIED. SO,

WE'LL GO TO THE BOARD. >> OKAY.

>>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: MOVING ONTO ITEM 4.

THE MILLS WORKFORCE HOUSING ITEM.

>> I HAVE EX-PARTE. >> EX-PARTE?

>> YES. I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM.

>> I HAD A CONVERSATION ALSO AND AN E-MAIL FROM M

MR. MACANERNE. >> AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MS. BURNET AND WE DISCUSSED COMPATIBILITY ISSUE. I DON'T KNOW IF I GOT AN E-MAIL OR NOT, BECAUSE, I DIDN'T GET TO THEM

THIS MORNING. >> I SPOKE WITH MR. BURNET, AND

HAD AN E-MAIL. >> I SPOKE WITH MR. BURNET YESTERDAY BY PHONE, AND DISCUSSED A LOT OF PARTICULAR ITEMS AND I SAID I WOULD ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS TODAY. AND I HAD AN E-MAIL FROM CARLA (INAUDIBLE) AND I RESPONDED TO HER THIS MORNING, AND, THEN, I SEE THREE OTHER LETTERS UP HERE THAT WE HAVE IN OUR (INDISCERNIBLE) THAT WERE HANDED

OUT TODAY, OBJECTING TO THIS. >> YES. PHONE CALL FROM MR. BURNET YESTERDAY AT 11:40 WE TALKED ABOUT THE WORKFORCE HOUSING NEED IN THE AREA, LOCATION, PREVIOUS SUBMISSIONS WITH THAT AND I DID RECEIVE AN E-MAIL FROM CARLA QUARTO, AND I SPOKE WITH A GENTLEMAN FROM AMERICAN (INDISCERNIBLE) AND I HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF AS WELL. AND BEFORE I WAS AFTER A PZA MEMBER I GOT AN E-MAIL FROM JOE MACANERNE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS NEEDED BUT I WANTED TO

DISCLOSE THAT. >> CHAIR: MR. BURNET, THE

FLOOR IS YOUR'S. >>> THANK YOU, GOOD ARCH, DOUG BURNET, ST. JOHNS 104 SEA GROVE MAIN STREET. WE HAVE JAMES SUMMERSET AND DERRICK SATINO SITTING BEHIND HIM AND HE'S A

[01:10:04]

WHEN WE ZOOM INTO THAT COMMERCIAL, THERE'S THREE BUSINESSES, SUN COAST POOLS AND SPAS, CITY ONE DESIGN AND MEDITERRANEAN DESIGN. ONE IS KITCHEN, CABINETS AND COUNTER TOPS AND THE OTHER BUSINESS IS A SWIMMING POOL BUSINESS. THE STREET LEVEL VIEW OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AS WELL.

>> IF WE LOOK AT THE SOUTH, OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE THE CHURCH, SHOWN IN PURPLE, THERE'S A LITTLE INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSE, KIND OF INSIGNIFICANT OVERALL IN THE YELLOW. AND IN THE GREEN IS THE RMH, AND IF WE LOOK AT THE RMH TO THE SOUTH AND BLOW THAT UP, I SHOW A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL AS FAR AS THE NORTH AND WHAT SPECIFICALLY ON OUR SOUTHERN BOARDER OF THE PROJECT.

BUT, IF YOU LIKE KIND OF CENTER WISE OF THAT DRAWING, OR, OF THAT AERIAL, YOU'LL SEE MOBILE HOMES LAID OUT THERE. THAT DENSITY IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA, UM, IS AS HIGH AS 15 UNITS AN ACRE, FOR EXAMPLE, THATTHAT'S 3550TOR STREET. SO, THERE'S SOME PRETTY CAN SIGNIFICANT DENSITY IN THAT AREA. IF WE LOOK AT OUR NORTHERN BOUNDARY AND WHAT'S ALONG THAT NORTHERN BOUNDARY AND THIS IS ALONG THE STREETS OF LAVERNIA AND DETORA.

YOU'LL FIND THAT'S 1.6 ACRES WITH 10 UNITS ON IT WHICH IS ABOVE SIX UNIVERSITIES PER ACRE IN JUST THIS PORTION HERE. AND THAT'S THE WAY EVERYTHING MATCHES UP ALONG OUR BOUNDARY, PRETTY MUCH, TO THE SOUTH OF US. SO, IF I CLICKED BACK AND LOOKED AT THIS DRAWING AND YOU LOOK AT THE R MCHL H THAT IS RMH. IF YOU SAY, WELL, I DROVE THROUGH THERE AND SAW BEAUTIFUL HOMES IN THE RMH THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT AND HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF THREE HOMES WHICH HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THERE, THOSE ACTUALLY, UM, MEASURE OUT THOSE ARE ON HUTCHINSON STREET AND THOSE MESH AT .42 ACRES.

[01:15:04]

LOOKING AT WORKFORCE FROM THE LDC AND I KNOW THIS IS IN YOUR STAFF REPORT BUT I WANT TO HIT THE HIGHLIGHTS OF IT. WORKFORCE HOUSING IS THE MISSING WORKFORCE HOUSING IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

MAXIMUM SALES PRICE WOULD BE $260,000, AND A MINIMUM OF 30% OF THE UNITS IN THE PROJECT HAS TO BE WORKFORCE HOUSING. AND KB IS HERE AND HAVE DONE THIS KIND OF PROJECT. WE MADE CLEAR WHEN WE SUBMITTED THE MATERIALS THAT WE WOULD MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS AND THE REQUIREMENTS WERE UNDERSTOOD. AND I'LL BE BACK TO THAT IN A MOMENT. THIS IS INTERESTING, AND THIS IS FROM THE COUNTY'S WEBSITE ON WORK FORCE HOUSING AND IF YOU GO THROUGH THOSE NAMES AND LOOK AT WHAT'S IN THE LIST FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING, EXCUSE ME, OF MAJOR EMPLOYERS IN NEED OF WORKFORCE HOUSING AND YOU LOOK AT THE LIST, MOST ALL OF THOSE EMPLOYERS ON THE LIST IN YELLOW ARE CLOSE IN PROXIMITY. LOGIC WOULD TELL YOU THIS BUT THEY'RE CLOSE IN PROXIMITY TO WHERE THE SITE'S LOCATED. THE ONLY ONES NOT IN PROXIMITY ARE THE MAJOR EMPLOYERS IN PONTE VEDRA. 25 OF THESE ARE LOCATED WITHIN 12 MILES AND MOST ARE LOCATED WITHIN FIVE MILES AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS LIST EXCLUDES, THE BIGGEST LIST, NOT NECESSARILY, THE LARGEST GROUP OF EMPLOYERS, BECAUSE, THIS GROUP EXCLUDES RETAILERS, SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTY'S LIST OF MAJOR EMPLOYERS, A LOT OF THE RETAIL TRADES, SEE MANUFACTURING AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATIONS HEAVY ON THE LIST OF MAJOR EMPLOYERS, BUT, A LOT OF RETAIL TRADE, THE ARTS AND THE LIKE AREN'T ON THE LIST. SO, A LOT OF TOURISM INDUSTRY OF COURSE, LIKE T ST.

AUGUSTINE, AND IF YOU LOOK AT RETAIL TRADE, THE CAR DEALERSHIPS ARE NOT ON THE LIST YET THEY'RE HERE AND THEY'RE GREAT EMPLOYERS AND THERE'S A HUGE OBVIOUS BASE FOR IT.

CIRCLE BACK TO KB, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PROGRAMS THEY HAVE A 1% OFF ALREADY RELATED TO MILITARY, POLICE, AND FIRE-FIGHTERS, THAT'S A PROMOTION THAT THEY RUN IN NORTH FLORIDA. AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WE HERE SO MUCH ABOUT LIVE LOCAL, THEY'RE FAMILIAR WITH LIVE LOCAL AND THE DOWN PAYMENT ASSISTANCE THAT COMES WITH THAT AND THEY HELP FACILITATE THOSE THINGS RETEENLY. JUST TO THROW IT UP HERE, FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND ZONING MAP SO THAT YOU COULD SEE HOW WE FIT IN. AND ONE FINAL LOOK AT THE AERIAL. AND, LASTLY, I GUESS I WOULD SAY IF I LAY IN A SITE PLAN, YOU COULD SEE HOW OUR SITE PLAN WOULD FIT IN THAT AREA FOR HAVING A WORKFORCE HOUSING PROJECT IN THIS LOCATION. WORKFORCE HOUSING HERE FITS NICELY FOR THE COMPATIBILITY AROUND IT. WITH THAT, I'LL STOP TALKING AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND MR. SUMMERSET IS HERE TO ADDRESS QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT KB ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

OTHERWISE, MAYBE SOME PUBLIC COMMENT SO I'LL STOP TALKING.

>> CHAIR: RICHARD. >> THAT WAS A GREAT PRESENTATION AS USUAL. I HAVE THE FEW QUESTIONS WE TALKS ABOUT YESTERDAY. IT SAYS IN THE APPLICATION, THESE ARE GOING TO BE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON 30-FOOT LOTS, IS THAT CORRECT?

ALL 110? >> I DON'T BELIEVE, I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE READING THAT IN THE APPLICATION, I'M NOT SURE

IF THAT'S IN THERE. >>

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS STATED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

>> WORKFORCE HOUSING IN THAT CLASSIFICATION, ALLOWS MULTIFAMILY AND SINGLE FAMILY. SO, I WOULDN'T SAY IT WOULDN'T BE A MIX OF THE TWO, BUT, OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S WHAT KB DOES, IT WOULD BE A FOR-SALE PRODUCT. STAY ALL OF THE UNITS WOULD BE

FOR SALE, NONE FOR RENT. >> KB IS NOT IN THE RENTAL HOME

BUSINESS. >> OKAY. GOOD. GOOD.

[01:20:02]

>> SINCE THERE'S NO MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, IT'S A LITTLE VAGUE, WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING IN 2022 THIS WAS REJECTED TWICE BY THE BOARD, IT WAS NOT WORKFORCE HOUSING, NUMBER ONE, AND NUMBER TWO, IT I WAS ONLY 92 UNITS AND WE HAD A LOT OF NEIGHBOR OPPOSITION TO IT. SO, THIS TIME YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MDP, SO, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT IN THE DARK ABOUT THAT. SO, I THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE MORE PEOPLE HERE, BUT, THIS IS REALLY A TERRIBLE TIME OF YEAR TO GET NEIGHBORS TO COME OUT WHICH WOULD BE THE PARTICULAR MEETING AT THE PZA, THIS IS THE THIRD TIME WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THIS, ALTHOUGH NOT FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING, AS I TOLD YOU YESTERDAY, I THOUGHT IT WAS SMART OF YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS TO PROPOSE THIS AS WORKFORCE HOUSING BECAUSE IT ADDS AN ENTIRELY NEW DIMENSION TO IT. BUT, LET ME ASK YOU A FEW THINGS ABOUT TRAFFIC. AND SOME OF THIS IS FROM THE E-MAIL THAT I RECEIVED FROM CARLA MAXWELL QUARTO. AND I WOULD LIKE JAN BACK THERE TO VERIFY SOME OF THESE NUMBERS, WOODLAWN, TO THE SOUTHWEST IS ADVERSELY IMPACTED. BUT, LEWIS SPEEDWAY IS AT 93% CAPACITY. SO, AND IT SAYS THAT TRAFFIC FROM THE CITY, THIS IS WHAT I'M VAGUE ON, TRAFFIC FROM THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE APPROVED WHISPERING CREEK AND FLAGLER CROSSING AND A PORTION OF THE 322 UNITS FROM RAVENSWOOD VILLAGE ARE NOT COUNTED. TO COME UP TO LEWIS SPEEDWAY ALREADY AT 93% CAPACITY. I'M JUST WONDERING IF THOSE NUMBERS ARE CORRECT AND DO YOU HAVE ANY REJECTION OF HOW MUCH TRAFFIC THAT WOULD ADD TO LEWIS

SPEEDWAY? >> GOOD AFTERNOON, JAN TRANTHEM WITH MANAGEMENT. RAVENSWOODVILLEAGE? .

>> WHISPERING CREEK AT 10 # 2 AND FLAGLER CROSSING AND 300

PLUS. >> SO, OUR TRANSPORTATION CON CURRENCY SYSTEM AND OUR SPREADSHEET THAT YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH INCLUDES EXISTING TRAFFIC THAT WE COUNT ANNUALLY, SO, ANY TRAFFIC GENERATED ANYWHERE IS COUNTED ON EVERY MAJOR ROAD IN THE COUNTY ANNUALLY. AND WE ADD AN ADDITIONAL ONE YEAR'S GROWTH FOR DEVELOPMENT AND TO BRING THE TRAFFIC COUNTS TO THE CURRENT YEAR UNTIL WE COUNT THEM AGAIN. THEN, WE APPROVE, WHENEVER WE REVIEW CON CURRENCY APPLICATIONS AND DO THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, WE RESERVE TRIPS ON THE R50DWAY SEGMENTS IN THE IMPACT AREA FOR ANYTHING THAT HOLDS A VALID CON CURRENT CERTIFICATE. THAT IS THE RESERVE TRIPS. WHAT I THINK SHE'S REFERRING TO ON SOME OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS MAYBE LOCATED IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

WHICH WE DID NOT REVIEW AND DID NOT REVIEW. WHEN THEY'RE OCCUPIED AND GENERATE TRAFFICIOUS THEY'RE PICKED UP IN

THE TRAFFIC COUNTS. >> GREAT ANSWER, THANK YOU FOR

BEING HERE AS USUAL. >>> DOUG, I CAN'T RECALL FROM LAST YEAR, BUT, UM, WEREN'T YOU OFFERING, BECAUSE OF THAT LARGE, SWEEPING, BLIND CURVE ON LEWIS SPEEDWAY, WHICH IS A MAJOR CONCERN OF MINE AND IT WAS OF A LOT OF RESIDENTS THE LAST TIME THIS WAS HEARD, TWO TIMES A YEAR BEFORE. WEREN'T YOU PROPOSING SOME SORT OF TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS TO HANDLE THAT TRAFFIC IN THAT DANGEROUS, BECAUSE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE HAVING PEOPLE PULLING IN AND OUT RIGHT ONTO LEWIS SPEEDWAY, AND YOU HAVE THAT BIG, BLIND CURVE FROM THE NORTH. DIDN'T YOU

PROPOSE SOMETHING LAST YEAR? >> WE WERE PROPOSING A PORTION OF FAIR SHARE PAYMENT TO THE COUNTY AND SPECIFICALLY CONTEMPLATING FOR EXAMPLE, OBVIOUSLY, HOW A PORTION OF FAIR SHARE IS USED BY THE COUNTY IS UP TO THE COUNTY'S DISCRETION.

[01:25:04]

>> YOU STATED IN THE E-MAIL FROM CARLA MAXWELL QUARTO. SHE SAID IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED THAT LEWIS SPEEDWAY CANNOT BE FOUR-LANED TO ACCOMMODATE TRAFFIC AND SAFETY CONCERNS BECAUSE OF THE LACK RIGHT-OF-WAY. SO, EVEN WITH PROPORTIONATE FAIR SHARE MONEY, IF THE COUNTY COMMISSION DECIDED TO PUT IT ALL THERE, WE COULDN'T FOUR-LANE IT. IF WE HAD A RIGHT TURN LANE AND A LEFT-CENTER TURN LANE, IS THERE

ROOM FOR ALL THAT? >> THE PRESSURE, ACTUALLY, FROM THE LAND DEVELOPMENT TRAFFIC ASSESSMENT DONE BY, UM, THE APPLICANT'S TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER, AS WELL AS, I BELIEVE, THAT ANALYSIS IS BASICALLY CONFIRMED BY MS. TRANTHEM AND YOUR COUNTY STAFF, THAT TYPE OF IMPROVEMENT TO LEWIS SPEEDWAY ISN'T EVEN REMOTELY CONTEMPLATED. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO TRAFFIC IN THIS AREA, I DON'T THINK YOU SEE THAT IMPROVEMENT. IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A PRACTICAL STAND POINT, LEWIS SPEEDWAY COMES DOWN AND IT'S WOOD LAWN THAT GETS THE IMPROVEMENTS. EVEN AS OUR ANALYSIS SHOWS A PORTION OF IT FAIR SHARE FROM THIS PROJECT WOULD GO TOWARDS POTENTIALLY IMPROVING WOODLAWN, NOT LEWIS SPEEDWAY.

>> I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY AND THE LAST TIME WE HAD HEARD THIS WE HAD A LOT OF RESIDENTS FROM HORSESHOE ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD SPEAKING AGAINST THIS AND CONCERNED ABOUT ACCIDENTS AND SAYING THERE HAD BEEN ACCIDENTS. SO, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD HAVE ONLY A RIGHT IN AND A RIGHT OUT

DEVELOPMENT ON LEWIS SPEEDWAY? >> THAT'S NEVER COME UP, BUT,

WE COULD TALK ABOUT IT. >> WELL, THAT WOULD APPEASE MY CONCERNS SOMEWHAT OVER THE SAFETY ISSUES ON THIS. SO, UM, BECAUSE, IT DOES STATE, AND THIS, AGAIN, THIS IS FROM CARLA QUARTO'S E-MAIL, SAYS OR, IF THE PROPOSED TRAFFIC RESULTED IN UNREASONABLE DANGER TO THE SAFETY OF OTHER TRAFFIC, PEDESTRIANS, AND BICYCLISTS, WHAT WE HAD LAST TIME WAS TESTIMONY FROM, I DON'T KNOW, 10 RESIDENTS IN HERE, SAYING THAT THAT WAS AN ISSUE. FOR THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THE BIG PUD TO THE SOUTHWEST OF YOUR PROPOSED PROJECT, YOU DID WANT REALLY TALK ABOUT THAT MUCH IN THERE, IN TERMS OF DENSITY NOR ACROSS THE STREET THERE TO THE EAST.

DENSITY. WHAT IF YOU TOOK ALL OF THAT, MUCH MORE SPARSE

[01:30:05]

WHAT WOULD IT DO TO THE OVER ALL DENSITY FOR THIS AREA IN TERMS OF UNITS PER ACRE? WHAT I'M GETTING AT, OBVIOUSLY, IS

COMPATIBILITY OR NOT. >> I THINK IF I TRIED TO UNPACK EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, TO RESPOND TO, I GUESS I WOULD BREAK IT UP AND SARKESE THAT, WHEN YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE OTHER APPLICATION THAT CAME THROUGH AND WAS DENIED, THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT APPLICATION THAN THIS ONE. THE FACTS AND WHAT WENT ON IN THE PRIOR HEARINGS, REALLY DON'T TRANSFER OVER TO THIS HEARING OR HAVE EVIDENCE VALUE. THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT. THE BIG PLAN WAS TO CREATE AN ACRE, THAT'S TO LOOK AT WHAT'S TO THE SOUTH TO OF US, AND WHAT'S TO THE EAST OF US, IT'S RESIDENTIAL, IT'S SIX UNITS PER ACRE THAT IT COULD BE DEVELOPED UP TO. ZONING MAY NOT BE THERE, BUT, OBVIOUSLY, LOOKED AT THE RMH BELOW BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PUD TO THE WEST IT'S CLEARLY IN THAT SIX UNITS PER ACRE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND IT'S SEPARATED FROM THIS POTENTIAL PROJECT. IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF BOUNDARY NEXT TO IT. IT DOESN'T HAVE THE PROXIMITY, IF YOU WILL, OR THE CONNECTION, OBVIOUSLY. YOU'LL SEE THIS PROJECT FROM THE CONDO, POTENTIALLY, THERE'S A HUGE BUFFER ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSES BUT THE RMH TO THE SOUTH, YOU'LL POTENTIALLY SEE IT.

>> OKAY. NOT WITHSTANDING WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

>> AND I DON'T RECALL THE -- I DON'T RECALL, MY MEMORY'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. BECAUSE, HORSESHOE WASN'T THE BIGGEST ISSUE, WE WERE TRYING TO I CAN MA THE LEFT CENTER TURN LANE AND THE RIGHT CENTER TURN LANE NOT CONFLICT TO SERVE HORSESHOE, BUT, IT WAS MOSTLY PORTER ROAD 2 RELATED.

>> THAT'S MAYBE WHERE MS. QUARTO SAID.

>> SHE LIVES UP THERE. >> YES. I KNOW THAT'S WHERE

SHE RECALLS. >> WELL, I RECALL SIGNIFICANT

HORSESHOE OPPOSITION TO THIS. >> LAST TIME IT WAS DENIED.

THE TWO TIMES PREVIOUSLY IT WAS DENIED BY US AND ONE TIME BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND IT WAS REMANDED BACK TO US BY THEM AT ONE POINT. IT HAD 92 HOMES AND NOW IT'S 110, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE THE WORKFORCE HOUSING COMPONENT IN THERE, WHICH, I HAD WAS SMART, BECAUSE THAT GETS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN FAVOR OF IT, IN FACE VALUE. BUT, YOU HAVE THE LOW TERRE DENSITY SURROUNDING IT, PARTICULARLY TO THE EAST AND SOUTHWEST. I'M CURIOUS HOW 92 HOMES WASN'T GOOD IN TERMS OF COMPATIBILITY. THAT WAS WHAT WAS BASED ON, THAT IT WAS INCOMPATIBLE. SO, IF 92 HOMES WERE NOT COMPATIBLE? HOW WERE

110 COMPATIBLE? >> I THINK BEFORE WE WERE SEEKING A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT. THE PROJECT LIVED OR DIED AS TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PLAN AMENDMENT. AS TO THAT, IT'S LEGISLATIVE AND NOT QUASI-JUDICIAL. THERE'S RARE EXCEPTIONS OF THIS, BUT, WHEN YOU THINK IN TERMS OF A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT AND LEGISLATIVE, IT'S LIKE, I WANT TO MAKE THE COUNTY DO SOMETHING. WELL, IF YOU LIKE LEASH LAWS OR YOU DON'T LIKE LEASH LAWS, YOU CAN'T FORCE THE COUNTY. NO ONE CAN COME IN HERE AND FORCE THE COUNTY COMMISSION TO CHANGE THAT LEASH LAW. SAME THING, MOST OF THE TIME, THERE'S A FEW EXCEPTIONS, BUT, MOST OF THE TIME WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN YOU CANNOT COME IN HERE AND FORCE THE COUNTY TO CHANGE THAT'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IN QUASI-JUDICIAL, ZONING IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT BECAUSE ONCE YOUR COMPATIBLE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DESIGNATION, THEN WE GET INTO THE OTHER RULES OF THE QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARINGS. THE LAND USE AMENDMENT BEFORE CLEARLY WAS TO MOVE TO RESIDENTIAL AND IT CAUSED A LOT OF CONSTERNATION, TO, I THINK, IS BECAUSE, OF WOULD THAT SPREAD

[01:35:05]

THAT'S HIS VOICE AND I THINK I WAS MISSING WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO SAY IN TRANSLATION, BUT, LATER, OBVIOUSLY, HIS PUSH WAS TO SEE, THIS WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT WERE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

AND, SO, I THINK, MAYBE, MANY OF US WEREN'T FOCUSED ON THAT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE, I DON'T KNOW THAT WORKFORCE HOUSING WAS WHERE IT IS TODAY 18 MONTHS AGO. 14

MONTHS AGO. >> IT WAS PROBABLY NOT. I

WOULD AGREE WITH YOU. >> I THINK THAT'S THE BIG THING, WE NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING. WE LOOK AT WHERE WORKFORCE HOUSING IS GOING, IS NOT GOING TO SERVE US AS MUCH AS

THIS LOCATION. >> I WOULD SAY THE ONE AT STUCKS LANDING ROAD IS NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE. I DO WANT TO STATE, UM, THAT I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS I HAVE BEEN A MAJOR SUPPORTER OF WORKFORCE HOUSING AND I HAVE VOTED FOR EVERY WORKFORCE HOUSING PROJECT THAT HAS COME BEFORE THIS BOARD, AND I SEE SEVERAL PEOPLE FROM MY CHURCH SITTING BACK THERE. SO, I ASSUME THEY'RE HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THE WORKFORCE HOUSING COMPONENT. SO, THAT'S SOME ADDED PRESSURE ON ME HERE, BUT, UM, I STILL HAVE TROUBLE WITH GOING FROM 92 TO 110 WITH THE TRAFFIC CONCERNS. STILL WITH OVERALL COMPATIBILITY, AND THE ECHOS OF WHAT THE PEOPLE ON HORSESHOE AND OTHERS HAVE SAID.

SO, I'LL STOP FOR MOW BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE MAY HAVE QUESTIONS.

I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWERS. >> CHAIR: JUDY?

>> THANK YOU, CHAIR. HI, MR. BURNET, THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT PRESENTATION, THANK YOU, IT WAS VERY INFORMATIVE. I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, I DID ALSO DO A SITE VISIT, I DON'T KNOW IF I MENTIONED THAT IN MY QUASI-JUDICIAL, I DID A LOT OF WALKING AROUND, CHECKING OUT THE AREA AND LOOKING AT THE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS. IT'S REALLY WET, I KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF RAIN, THAT'S NEVER BEEN BROUGHT UP, BUT, I EXPECT IF THAT WAS A

PROBLEM, DR. HILSENBECK. >> IT WAS BROUGHT UP LAST TIME.

>> I DID WATCH THE PREVIOUSLY HEARINGS AND I KNOW THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROJECT BUT I WANTED TO GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THE REAL ISSUE IS, AND WHAT THIS AREA IS LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON.

WE DID RECEIVE SEVERAL E-MAILS FROM THE HOMEOWNERS ON HORSESHOE AND THE SAME WAS EXPRESSED. I DO KNOW THAT THE PORTER PROJECT WAS A CONCERN BACK THEN, BUT, RIGHT NOW, IT PROBABLY ISN'T. I REALLY WANT TO SUPPORT THIS. I DID HEAR DR. MCCORMICK, AND I'M THE SCHOOL BOARD REPRESENTATIVE NOW. AND I REALLY LOVE WORKFORCE HOUSING AND I WANT TO REALLY LIKE THIS AND I'M TRYING TO WORK MY BRAIN AROUND WHAT WE HAVE TO GRIT OUR TEETH AND TAKE IN ORDER TO GET HOUSING FOR OUR WORKFORCE WHICH WE REALLY, DESPERATELY NEED. WE DID HAVE A BIT OF A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF WHAT MIGHT BE THE END PRODUCT PRICE FOR THE OTHER RESIDENTS THAT ARE NOT THE 36 UNITS OF WORKFORCE HOUSING AND THIS IS 110 UNITS. AND, UM, I THOUGHT WE HAD SAID SINGLE FAMILY, BUT, I GUESS WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE THAT WRITTEN IN STONE. SO, I UNDERSTAND WORKFORCE IS KIND OF A DIFFERENT ANIMAL. SO, COULD YOU SPEAK TO THAT, MAYBE THE PRICE POINT FOR THE OTHER HOMES AND, UM, THE, UM, YOU DID SAY THE NEED FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING IN THIS AREA DID ALSO WANT TO ASK MS. BISHOP

A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? >> YOU COULD SEE ARRANGE IN THERE FROM $280,000, # TO $380,000.

>> I'M GOING TO PUT OUT THIS QUESTION, I SEE IT'S NOT

[01:40:01]

TRIGGERED, I UNDERSTAND THAT. >> IT IS REQUIRED TO DO SITE.

>> IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD OFFER IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO OFFER IT, AS PART OF YOUR PACKAGE BECAUSE WORKFORCE HOUSING HAS LESS STRINGENT CRITERIA, AND LESS, ANYWAY. UM, OKAY, MY QUESTION IS, IN READING ABOUT WORKFORCE HOUSING, I TRIED TO DO MY HOMEWORK AND REALLY DO READ. I P WENT THROUGH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ON WORKFORCE HOUSING AND READ IT ALL WORD FOR WORD, AND ONE OF THE COMMENTS IS IN 51102-A 1. YOU HAVE A PRODUCT, YOU HAVE 36 WORKFORCE HOUSING UNITSES, AND A PERSON PURCHASES THAT UNIT AT THE WORKFORCE HOUSING PRICE, WHICH IS $260,000, AND AFTER TOO YEARS OF INITIAL SALE, THEY COULD TURN AROUND AND SELL THE PRODUCT AND IT IS NO LONGER A WORKFORCE HOUSING PRODUCT. AND THAT, TO ME, IS JUST STUNNING. AND, UNHELPFUL FOR OUR COUNTY. I DON'T THINK WE NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING THAT ONLY HOLDS FOR TWO YEARS. SO, MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU THINK AS THE APPLICANT, THAT YOUR CLIENT WOULD INCLUDE A 10-YEAR DEED RESTRICTION INSTEAD OF A TWO-YEAR DEED RESTRICTION. I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE.

I KNOW IT'S DIFFERENT. >> I LIKE THE CREATIVITY, I THINK THAT THE CHALLENGE THAT YOU RUN INTO WITH THAT IS A LENDER'S EXPECTATION THAT'S GOING TO LOAN THE MONEY FOR THE FIRST TIME HOME BUYER. AND, IN LENGTHENING THAT WINDOW BEYOND TWO YEARS, HOW DOES THE BANK LOAN MONEY ON THAT AND WANT TO TRY AND RECOUP THEIR ASSET. SO, THAT'S THE BIGGEST DYNAMIC THAT YOU RUN INTO IS A LENDER LENDING OUT MONEY KNOWING THAT SOME OF THESE HOMES MAY FORECLOSE. LENDERS WILL FORECLOSE ON HOMES WHETHER IT'S A WORKFORCE OR WHATEVER IT IT IS. LENDERS LOOK AT IT AS A POINT OF PROTECTING THEIR COLLATERAL. AND I THINK IF YOU PUSH THAT TIME FRAME OUT TOO FAR -- AND NOW, THE THING THAT I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT THIS, TOO, THOUGH, IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT WORKFORCE HOUSING AND WHAT IT COST TO PURCHASE THE HOME, AND THEN, OKAY, IN TWO YEARS, IT'S GOING TO BE WORTH MORE, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO, THOUGH? SO, THE CHALLENGE IN THAT IS, YES, THEY CAN SELL AND MOVE SOMEWHERE, AND MAYBE THEY REAP A BENEFIT FROM THAT. AND MAYBE THAT IS AN ATTRACTION TO LURING EMPLOYEES TO COME HERE OR STAY HERE TO WORK BECAUSE WE HAVE THE WORKFORCE HOUSING. THERE'S A LOT OF DYNAMICS IN THERE, BUT, I'LL TELL YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT RIGHT NOW, IF ANYONE OF US WHOSE BEEN IN THEIR HOMES FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS SOLD RIGHT NOW AND BOUGHT THE SAME HOUSE OVER AGAIN, WE WOULD BE GETTING CRUSHED WITH PROPERTY TAXES. SO, THERE'S SOME INCENTIVE TO NOT DO THAT. SO, I GUESS I WOULD PUT THAT BACK TO YOU, IS YEAH, SURE, YOU CAN MAKE A PROFIT BECAUSE YOU'VE OWNED IT FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS, AND YOU'VE GOT PORTABILITY, BUT, IT'S NOT AN INCOME IT'S NOT ORDINARY CAN IN IN THE SALE AFTER OWNING THE HOUSE FOR TWO YEARS. I DON'T SEE THAT BEING

AS BIG A CONCERN AS YOU DO. >> MY CONCERN IS JUST THE ROLLOVER OF THE HOUSE FOR WHATEVER THE REASON THE PERSON LEAVES IT'S NO LONGER THE WORKFORCE HOUSING. AND WE HAVE THE RETIREE SAYING, I CAN BUY THIS HOUSE AT THIS PRICE POINT.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING A STABILITY INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT INTO OUR WORKFORCE HOUSING. MS. BISHOP, ARE THERE ANY CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW? I KNOW THAT WE'VE BEEN BUILDING WORKFORCE HOUSING FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, IS THERE ANY AVAILABLE TO BE OCCUPIED AT THIS

POINT? >> I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCIES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED. THEY'RE PROBABLY READY, BUT, I HAVEN'T FOUND ANY.

>> AND THE LOCATIONS OF THESE PROPERTIES ARE BASICALLY?

>> NORTH? NORTHWEST? CENTRAL? >> I WOULD SAY PROBABLY MORE CENTRAL. CENTRALLY LOCATED. THERE'S THE ONE THAT YOU MENTIONED ON US-1 NORTH. THE REST ARE CENTRAL, 207, WEST

AUGUSTINE, 214 AREA. >> SO, THIS IS ACCURATE? SAYING THERE AREN'T REALLY ANY WORKFORCE HOUSING PROJECTS IN

[01:45:02]

THIS GENERAL AREA. >> I MEAN, IT'S A 36-UNITS,

IT'S NOT A VAST NUMBER OF UNITS. >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, I HEARD DR. MCCORMICK AND, UM, BUT, THERE REALLY ISN'T VERY MUCH THAT'S CHANGED, SINCE THE PREVIOUS PRESENTATION AS FAR AS THE ACTUAL SITUATION WITH THE NEIGHBORS. SO, WE'LL SEE.

THANK YOU, SIR. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU, ANYONE ELSE FROM THE AGENCY? AT THIS TIME WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT. MAY BE GO IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DIRECTION AS WELL. I PUT UP HERE WHAT DR. HILSENBECK HAS ALREADY RECALLED AND THIS DID APPEAR IN FRNT OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING NOT ONCE, BUT, TWICE, AND LAST YEAR, MARCH 3RD, IT WAS 92 HOMES AND JUDGED TO BE INCOMPATIBLE. AND MR. BURNET HAS SHOWN THE USES UP THERE AND DESCRIBED THE DENSITIES, THOSE REALTIME SAME TODAY AS THEY WERE IN MARCH OF 2022. SO, THIS BOARD STILL IN SPITE OF THAT, JUDGED THIS TO BE INCOMPATIBLE. AND THEN, A FEW MONTHS LATER, AFTER BEING REMANDED BACK TO THE BOARD, HEARD THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN, VOTED TO DENY AND THOSE VOTING TO DENY INCLUDED DR. HILSENBECK, DR. MCCORMICK, JACK PETER AND ELVIS PIERRE. AND AGAIN, THE JUDGMENT WAS INCOME PATABILITY.

AND WHAT ARE WITH HE TALKING ABOUT WHEN LOOKING AT COM COMPATIBILITY. AND MR. BURNET HAS DIFFERENT STATISTICS FOR PLANTATION, BUT, FROM THE DATA THAT I GATHERED IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS 2.46. IT HARDLY MATTERS BECAUSE THIS BOARD JUDGED IT TO BE INCOMPATIBLE. AND SO DID THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. 92 HOMES WAS INCOMPATIBLE. AND THE QUESTION IS IF A PROJECT AT 4 UNITS PER ACRE LIKE IT WAS LAST YEAR, WAS INCOMPATIBLE. WHAT IS A LARGER PROJECT MORE COMPATIBLE. TODAY, 110 HOMES BUT 33 WORKFORCE HOUSING. THE QUESTION TO BE ASKED IS WHAT IS BETTER? WHAT IS BETTER? THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELVES. SO, YES, WORKFORCE HOUSING, BUT, GREATER DENSE AT THIS TIME, NOT 92. SO, IF THIS BOARD APPROVES THIS PROJECT, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THESE NEIGHBORS THAT THEY'RE BETTER WITH GREATER DENSITY BECAUSE IT'S THE COUNTY GETS 33 WORKFORCE HOUSING UNITS. MY GOSH, THERE'S A BALANCE IN THERE SOMEWHERE, I'M GOING TO CLOSE QUICKLY. THE NEIGHBORS ARE NOT BETTER, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU THAT. AND IF FOUR WAS NOT COMPATIBLE LAST YEAR, 4.95 WHICH IS PROPOSED THIS YEAR IS DEFINITELY NOT COMPATIBLE. SO, I SAY, PLEASE, RECOMMEND DENIAL.

WE ALL WANT WORKFORCE HOUSING. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE WORKFORCE HOUSING HERE, 110 IS NOT THE RIGHT NUMBER. THAT RIGHT NUMBER IS OUT THERE SOMEWHERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. MR. BURNET AND HIS TEAM HAVE NOT MET WITH THE NEIGHBORS OR THE COUNTY TO DISCUSS THIS. I THINK THIS IS PREMATURE, BUT, IF THAT'S THE WAY THAT IT IS TODAY, I THINK THERE'S REALLY ONLY ONE DECISION TO BE MADE TODAY. IF 92 WAS INCOMPATIBLE LAST YEAR, 110 IS

MORE INCOMPATIBLE THIS YEAR. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU.

>> I'M RICHARD JAMES AND I LIVE AT 557 HORSESHOE ROAD AND I BUILT MY HOUSE IN 1976 AND IT'S ONLY A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET OFF OF LEWIS SPEEDWAY, I CAN NOT GET ON LEWIS SPEEDWAY WITHOUT GOING

[01:50:01]

>> I THINK IT'S CONFUSING OF THE WORKFORCE HOUSING, OR AFFORDABLE WORKFORCE HOUSING. IT'S HOW THE STATEMENTS ARE PUT IN AND HOW THEY'RE USED. EARLIER THIS YEAR, SOME OF THE PARAMETERS CHANGED. IT WENT FROM 240,000 TO 260,000, IT WENT FROM 30%, EXCUSE ME, FROM 40% TO 30% AVAILABILITY. SO, IT COSTS MORE AND THERE'S LESS OF THEM. AND, NOT JUST PARTICULARLY THIS ONE, BUT, ALL THE ONE THAT IS COME THROUGH FOR THE WORKFORCE HOUSING OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR HOWEVER IT'S COMING ACROSS.

ALSO, I WONDER IF THEY SET ASIDE 30% OF THE HOUSE THAT GETS WORKFORCE HOUSING AFFORDABLE, AVAILABLE HOUSING, HOW LONG DO

THEY HOLD ONTO THAT >> BECAUSE OF THE EXTENT THAT IS GOING ON IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY. YES, IT'S, 30 OVER HERE, IT'S 50 DOWN HERE, IT'S 40 OVER HERE, THAT'S A LOT. I'M JUST KIND OF CURIOUS IN AN OVERALL ASPECT OF IT, HOW LONG CAN THEY HAVE THESE HOMES OR APARTMENTS OR TOWNHOMES OR MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS SET ASIDE IF THERE'S NO WORKFORCE HOUSING PERSON COMING IN TO BUY THAT AND WILL IT THEY NEED TO MAKE UP FOR THE PROFIT IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SELL THESE HOUSES BECAUSE OF ALL THE APARTMENTS FROM ALL THE OTHER PLACES THAT ARE IS COMING IN AND BRINGING UP THIS UM, BECAUSE, I DON'T KNOW, I JUST FIND IT A MAYBE IT'S THE SHORTEST DAY IN THE CALENDAR YEAR. THAT'S MY, NOT JUST MY, UM, PERCEPTION OF AFFORDABLE WORKFORCE HOUSING IN

GENERAL. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU.

>>> I'M DEBBIE JAMES AND I'M ON NORTH HORSESHOE ROAD AND IT IS CONTINUOUSLY A DANGEROUS ROAD AS WE SAID LAST YEAR THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE. IF YOU REMEMBER CORRECTLY IF YOU MAY HAVE NOT HEARD ABOUT MY NEIGHBOR WHO LIVES ON NORTH HORSESHOE ROAD GOING SOUTH ON THE CURB, TRYING TO TURN, SOMEBODY CAME UP BEHIND HER, SMASHED INTO HER CAR AND SHE WAS THROWN INTO THE OTHER CAR COMING THE OTHER WAY. SHE, UM, LOST HER JOB, HAD OPERATIONS, UM, ANYWAY, IT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE

[01:55:04]

NOW, I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE, THIS IS WOODLAND ROAD.

AND LEWIS SPEEDWAY, AND WE HAVE A VAN AND IT STOOD THERE FOR THREE DAYS AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY WAS HURT BUT THAT WAS A WEEK AND-A-HALF. THAT'S THE END. WHERE I LIVE. IN CONCLUSION IT'S A DANGEROUS CURB AND IT WILL GET WORSE BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN THIS SO-CALLED WORKFORCE PROJECT.

AND ONE LAST THING, MY DAUGHTER CALLED ME ON THE WAY TO A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT AND WENT TO THE END OF NORTH HORSESHOE ROAD TO TAKE A RIGHT-HAND TURN AND ACROSS THE STREET WAS A UPS TRUCK STOPPED IN THE MEANTIME, HERE COMES A TRUCK, BARRELLING FAST, CLAMMED ON THE BREAKS AND ENDED UP ON THE SIDEWALK OF THE CURB. THERE'S BICYCLES, PEOPLE, BABY ARES IT'S DANGEROUS. AND HAVING MORE PEOPLE ON THIS ROAD, SOMEONE'S GOING TO GET KILLED.

AND I THANK YOU. PLEASE DENY. >>> ANYONE ELSE?

>> >> MY NAME IS KARL AND I'VE BEEN HERE SEVERAL TIMES WITH THE MILLS PROJECT BUT ANYWAY, I'M HERE TODAY SO, UM, SAY TO YOU GUYS, THAT IT'S WILL ALL ABOUT TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC. ON LEWIS SPEEDWAY WHEN OUR NEIGHBORS GO TO WORK AND COME HOME. AND ALSO, I'M RETIRED AND SOMETIMES IT TAKES ME 10-15 MINUTES JUST TO GET OUT ON THIS IS LEWIS SPEEDWAY, AND THIS IS WHERE THE PROJECT IS PROPOSED.

WE HAVE THE NORTH AND SOUTH HORSESHOE AND WE HAVE PLANTATION POINT AND WE HAVE THE START ROAD, AND THEY ALL HAVE TO GET INTO ON LEWIS SPEEDWAY, AND COME BACK HOME TO GET INTO THEIR RESIDENTS. WE DON'T KNOW THE INGRESS OR EGRESS OF THE MILLS' PROJECT, IT HAS NOT BEEN DISCUSSED. BUT, WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THAT AREA? WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THOSE? CAN YOU GUYS LOOK AT EACH ONE OF US, I'M SURE THERE ARE THREE OR FOUR HUNDRED AND SAY, WELL, WE DIDN'T DENY IT. WHY SHOULD WE?

>> WELL, YOU SHOULD, WE'RE THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE. WE'RE THE PEOPLE WHO VOTE FOR EVERYBODY. YOU'VE GOT TO REALIZE THAT IS A DANGEROUS PLACE. WE ALL WANT THIS WORKFORCE, BUT, IT NEED TO BE IN A PLACE THAT HAS ADEQUATE ACRES FOR THIS. I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 35 WORKFORCE HOUSING, I MEAN, IS THAT ENOUGH OUT OF 110? I MEAN, CAN YOU GUYS VOTE FOR

[02:00:03]

>> CHAIR: THANK YOU, ANYONE ELSE?

>> CHAIR: SEEING NONE, DOUG? >> I'LL ASK MR. SUMMERSET TO JOIN ME. OUR BIGGEST THING AND I'LL GO BACK TO THIS, IS IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DYNAMIC TO WHERE WE'RE AT TODAY THAN WHERE WE WERE AT PREVIOUSLY. PREVIOUSLY IT WAS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT, THIS IS NOT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT, THIS IS A STRICTLY, A WORKFORCE HOUSING AND REZONING, WHERE HAVE WE FALLEN SHORT, WE'VE SHOWN FROM TRAFFIC STUDY, WHICH IS NOT REQUIRED AT THIS STAGE, HOW WE'LL DEAL WITH THE TRAFFIC AND IT'S ACTUALLY, WOODLAWN, NOT LEWIS SPEEDWAY WHERE THAT PRIORITY IS. INTERESTINGLY YOUR STAFF CLARIFIED THE ISSUE ON THESE TRIPS AND WHETHER OTHER TRAFFICS COUNTED OR NOT. IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE TRAFFIC COUNT. THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT I WOULD ADD IS WE CERTAINLY BETWEEN NOW AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THE WAY OUT IN FEBRUARY CAN LOOK AT CONCERNS ON WHERE TO MAKE INROADS TO

ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF ACCESS. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, I'M JAMES SUMMERSET, I'M THE DIRECTOR OF FLOOR PLANNING FOR KB. THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH YOU. I WOULD ASSUME THAT AS LONG AS YOU'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD, YOU'VE OFTEN HEARD THIS STATEMENT A NUMBER OF TIMES, IT'S ABOUT THE TRAFFIC.

IT'S ABOUT SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO, THE YOUNG LADY ENDED WITH A STATEMENT I WOULD LIKE TO PICK UP. LET'S GET IT RIGHT. KB PRIDES THEMSELVES ON STARTER HOMES, THAT'S ONE REASON WE PICKED THIS PROJECT. THOSE 33 HOMES FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING, IS NOT A FLUKE FOR US, WE DO IT ALL THE TIME. ALL THE TIME. WE WILL WORK WITH YOU ON CORRECTING THAT PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE ROADS, GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY AND WE WILL WORK WITH YOU. SHE SAID, COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, WE WILL HELP YOU. GIVE US THAT OPPORTUNITY, AND WE WILL BUILD THE HOMES AND WE WILL HELP THE HOMEOWNERS GET INTO THEM, WE WILL HELP SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM ON THAT ROAD. OKAY? THANK YOU.

>> CHAIR: DOUG ARE YOU FINISHED WITH YOUR REBUTTAL?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE MUCH IN THE WAY OF REBUTTAL, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. OBVIOUSLY, WORKFORCE HOUSING IS A BIG THING IN OUR COUNTY. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A LOCATION WHERE IT FITS. OBVIOUSLY IT'S A LOCATION WHERE IT'S CONSISTENT AND COMPATIBLE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN'S REQUIREMENTS. I DIDN'T DO A GREAT JOB, I'LL BE HONEST, A YEAR AGO OF SHOWING AND COMPARING AND LOOKING AT STAFF'S ANALYSIS OF THE DENSITY OF THE SURROUNDING UNITS TO BREAK DOWN AND SHOW WHERE THE DENSITY IS HIGHER. IT'S HIGHER TO THE NORTH AND TO THE SOUTH. SO, THE REAL ISSUE IS, I GUESS, IS THERE A TRAFFIC PROBLEM ON THE ROADWAY AND IF THERE'S TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, IS IT SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO OUR SITE. WE'LL HAVE TO ADDRESS THOSE AS A SITE-RELATED IMPROVEMENT. AND OF COURSE, WE'VE HEARD SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS AND, CAN ANALYZE THOSE BEFORE OUR FEBRUARY DATE. AND THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL

[02:05:03]

DEBATE FOR ANOTHER DAY. >> CHAIR: THANK YOU. BACK TO THE AGENCY FOR ANY FINAL COMMENTS OR A MOTION.

>> I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU WERE MOCKING A POLITICIAN THERE, I'M

NOT GOING TO SAY WHICH ONE. >> I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE HOUSING DEPARTMENT HAS A WAY WAIT FOR FOLKS TRYING TO GET INTO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WHAT CONCERNS ME IS THE FACT THAT, YES, I KNOW THERE'S 30% AND THE BUILDERS HAVE TO DO FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING. BUT, IF AFTER TWO YEARS IT'S GOING TO BE BACK INTO REGULAR HOUSING, YOU'RE NOT HELPING THE PROBLEM.

IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH WORKFORCE HOUSING, I DON'T SEE HOW AS IT SAYS HERE, UPON COMPLETION OF THE INITIAL BUYER'S PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY, THE RESTRICTION AUTOMATICALLY TERMINATES. SO, WE'RE NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

THAT'S MY MAIN COMMENT ON THAT. >> SO, DOUG, YOU MAY NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, IT MAY BE OUT OF YOUR (INDISCERNIBLE) WHAT WOULD BE THE TYPICAL MORTGAGE THAT'S INCLUSIVE OF PROPERTY TAXES, INSURANCE, ET CETERA, ON A

$260,000 HOME? DO YOU KNOW? >> WILL YOU FIGURE IT OUT FOR US? THANK YOU. WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, WELL, I'LL WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE FINISHED, BECAUSE, YOU'RE PRETTY QUICK.

>>> SO, ASSUMING A FIVE YEAR RATE.

>> YOU'RE SAYING, ASSUMING A 5% RATE?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, PROJECTIONS ARE THAT RATES ARE GOING TO LEVEL OFF. SO, IF I ASSUME A 5% RATE AND $260,000, WITH NO MONEY DOWN, BASICALLY, BECAUSE, WE'RE ASSUMING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE, THE FIRST-TIME HOME BUYER AND SOME OF THE OTHER PROGRAMS, ASSUMING IT'S MILITARY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRST RESPONDERS, THAT TYPE OF TARGET GROUP, THEN, YOUR PAYMENT IS 1390.

>> AND THAT'S WITH THE PROPERTY TAXES?

>> THAT WOULD NOT INCLUDE PROPERTY TAXES.

>> $1395.74. >> THE PAYMENT WOULD BE ON A

30-YEAR NOTE $1,395.74. >> THAT'S THE MORTGAGE ON 260,

AT 5% FOR 30 YEARS. >> OKAY. AND LET ME ASK STAFF THIS QUESTION, UM, DO YOU ALL KNOW THE AVERAGE RENT BY ANY CHANCE ON APARTMENTS IS IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY?

>> I DO NOT. >> ALL RIGHT, I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT YOU WOULD. I WAS JUST ASKING.

>> DR. HILSENBECK, I THINK THAT YOU'RE SOMEWHERE IN THE $2,000

RANGE. >> I HEARD THAT, BUT, IT'S

HEARSAY. >> I'LL CIRCLE BACK WITH DETAILS ON THAT. AND I WOULD BE READY FOR THAT FOR THE BCC.

>> AND YOU ADD PROPERTY TAXES AND INSURANCE RATES WHICH ARE INSANE RIGHT NOW. THAT WILL JUMP UP THERE. BUT, ABOUT A YEAR AGO, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN IT WAS, BUT, I HAD ASKED IF THE COUNTY STAFF COULD GET ME THE NUMBER OF APARTMENTS THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED IN THE COUNTY IN THE PAST 5 YEARS. AND, I NEVER RECEIVED THAT INFORMATION. SO, I'M ASKING AGAIN, JUST, TO HAVE FOR FUTURE DISCUSSIONS, ABOUT HOW MANY APARTMENT BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN APPROVED AND HOW MANY UNITS HAVE BEEN, HOW MANY DEVELOPS, OR, UNITS, WHATEVER, I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW THAT INFORMATION, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE GET THAT TO ME AND THE OTHER MEMBERS IF THEY WANT IT. SO, MY FINAL COMMENT, AND THIS IS A COMMENT, NOT A QUESTION. IS THAT I HAVE SEEN A TREND LATELY, WE JUST HAD ONE A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO

[02:10:03]

COMMENT. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR: ANY OTHER MEMBERS?

>> DOUG, THROUGH THE CHAIR, IF YOU DON'T MIND, AND I MAY HAVE MISSED THIS IN YOUR CONVERSATION, BUT, IN YOUR, YOU HAVE NOT DONE AN ACTUAL TRAFFIC STUDY AS FAR AS WHAT THE IMPACT OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD NEED, WHETHER IT BE A DECELL LANE OR? DID YOU MENTION THAT? DID I MISS THAT SOMEWHERE IN YOUR

CONVERSATION? >> BASED ON OUR UNIT COUNT?

>> RIGHT. >> YOU'LL SEE TWO THINGS SITE RELATED TO THIS, NOT RELATED TO ANYTHING FOR CAPACITY ON THE ROADWAY, JUST TO BUILD THIS PROJECT AND CONNECT TO THE ROADWAY, ONE YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO A RIGHT DECEL LANE. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A GIVEN. AND THE SECOND PART IS THAT I BELIEVE WE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO A LEFT CENTER TURN LANE. SO, THAT'S REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING ELSE.

AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE HAVE A TRAFFIC STUDY AND OUR TRAFFIC STUDY IS SAYING, WHICH HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO STAFF AND REVIEWED AND I THINK WAS REVIEWED AS PART OF THE STAFF'S REPORT THAT'S IN THERE, WE KNOW THAT WE WOULD BE PAYING A FAIR SHARE TO THE

OVERALL PROBLEM. >> YES.

>> BUT, I'M TALKING ABOUT SPECIFIC HI TO YOUR SITE, EGRESS, YOU KNOW, GETTING IN AND OUT, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND, I PULLED OUT ON HORSESHOE, AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A CURVE ISSUE THAT WE HAVE. UNFORTUNATELY, THE ROADS NOT DESIGNED FOR RESIDENTIAL PULLING IN AND OUT ON THAT. SO, WE'VE GOT TO WORK AROUND THAT. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR OF THAT.

BECAUSE, THAT'S MY ISSUE IS, UM, TRAFFIC SAFETY GETTING IN AND

OUT OF DEVELOPMENT. >> AND, AND, I THINK OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER WHICH WE'LL HAVE HIM AT THE BCC MEETING, I WOULD ANTICIPATE. BUT, FROM PRIOR OPINIONS FROM THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER, THE LEFT CENTER TURN LANE, OBVIOUSLY HELPS OUR PROJECT FOR VEHICLES MAKING A LEFT-HAND TURN INTO IT. BUT, IT WAS ALSO, UM, THE OPINION THAT THAT LEFT, CENTER TURN LANE CAUSES A LITTLE BIT OF A TRAFFIC CALMING, THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON HERE WHICH MAY HELP HORSESHOE AS WELL AT THAT INTERSECTION

JUST TO THE SOUTH OF US. >> BECAUSE, I SEE THIS AS

STRICTLY AN INFILL PROJECT. >> YOU'VE GOT A BIG HURDLE ON THE TRAFFIC AS FAR AS GETTING IN AND OUT OF THAT THINK. WHICH

MAY WORK AND IT MAY NOT. >>

>> ANYONE ELSE? >> MR. BURNET, YOUR APPLICATION ON PAGE 11 DOES SAY 30-FOOT MINIMUM LOT, SINGLE FAMILY. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SUBMITTED. SO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS CHANGED. AND I THOUGHT THAT I HAD SEEN THAT, TOO, NOT TO CORRECT ANYTHING, I KNOW IT'S HARD TO KEEP ALL OF THOSE

NUMBERS IN YOUR HEAD. >>> OKAY. SO, I LOVE WORKFORCE

HOUSING. >> WE ALSO HAD THE LANGUAGE FOR

THE MULTIFAMILY IN THERE. >> YEAH. SO, I WAS JUST STATING THAT ONE THING, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY, SO, TALKING ABOUT KIND OF COMPATIBILITY WITH THE GENERAL AREA COMMENT HERE ON THE COUNTY ATTORNEY REVIEW SAYS INCOMPATIBILITY, DEVIATION IN AN ESTABLISHED DEVELOPMENT LOGICAL AND OVERLY DEVELOPED WHICH I SUPPOSE COULD BE OBJECTIVE PRODUCES SIGNIFICANT ADVERSE IMPACT ON PROPERTY VALUES, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT, OR DETRACTS FROM THE CHARACTER OR QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I JUST WONDER ABOUT THE TRAFFIC RELATED TO THAT. THE DENSITY, I DO THINK THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE MADE ON ARGUMENT FOR IT BEING SIMILAR DENSITY, I'M STILL HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE DENSITY ON THIS. AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD CUT THAT BACK. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A THRESHOLD THAT YOU HAVE TO MEET ESPECIALLY IF 30% OF HOMES WILL BE AT WORKFORCE HOUSING RATE. MIGHT IT BE POSSIBLE TO REDUCE THIS TO

[02:15:03]

>> CHAIR: OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? >> THROUGH THE CHAIR, THIS TABLE ON PAGE 11 IS NOT THEIR TABLE. THIS IS OUR TABLE. THIS COMES OUT OF THE WORKFORCE HOUSING ZONING. SO, EVERY WORKFORCE HOUSING WE SEE (INAUDIBLE)

>> THIS JUST SAYS SUBJECT PROPERTY, SO, I APOLOGIZE FOR

MISUNDERSTANDING THAT. >> CHAIR: WE'RE BACK TO THE

AGENCY FOR A MOTION. >>> MR. CHAIR BEFORE WE PROCEED, I HAVE AN ANSWER, I THINK TO THE AVERAGE RENT ACCORDING TO THE APARTMENTS.COM. AND, FOR A ONE-BEDROOM IT'S APPROXIMATELY $1,512 PER MONTH FOR A TWO-BEDROOM, ACCORDING TO APARTMENTS.COM IT'S $1,926 AND FOR A THREE-BEDROOM, IT'S $2,109 PER MONTH. AND THOSE ARE THE AVERAGE.

>> WILL YOU MAKE THE MOTION. >> CHAIR: WE'RE BACK TO THE

AGENCY FOR A MOTION. >>> ALL RIGHT, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION AS STATED EARLIER, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS AN INFILL PROJECT. YES, THEY'VE GOT TRAFFIC ISSUES TO DEAL WITH, BUT, THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM. SO, WITH THAT I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF REZONE 2023-16 MILLS WORKFORCE HOUSING BASED ON FOUR FINDINGS OF FACT PROVIDED IN THE STAFF'S REPORT.

>> SECOND. >> CHAIR: OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A STATEMENT.

MR. GREEN STATED IT WILL BE THE DEVELOPER'S PROBLEM TO DEAL WITH THAT TRAFFIC, IT'S ALSO GOING TO BE THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE THERE. IT'S GOING TO BE THEIR PROBLEM, ALSO, SO. I DIDN'T SEE ANY SOLUTIONS PROPOSED TODAY TO ALLEVIATE THE TRAFFIC CONDITIONS, BUT, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. I THINK THAT'S COMING SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE AND WHETHER THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE

HURDLES TO EVEN BUILD THIS. >> CHAIR: OKAY WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ROLL DCAL, PLEASE.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO ADD COMMENTARY, ON THE QUESTION OF LAND USE RESTRICTION, SO, I'VE BEEN IN THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ARENA FOR A LONG TIME, AND I'VE SAT AT THE HABITAT'S BOARD FOR 20 SUM YEARS AND THEY HAVE A LURAL. THAT'S BASICALLY COULD BE FOREVER. BUT, THEY DO ALLOW THE HOME OWNER TO PARTICIPATE IN AAPPRECIATION. AS YOU EXTEND THAT TIMEFRAME, THE PERSON THAT YOU ARE HURTING IN MY OPINION IS THE HOMEOWNERS, BECAUSE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO CONTINUE TO SELL AT $260,000, THEN THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO EXPERIENCE ANY APPRECIATION WHICH IS THE GREATEST WEALTH THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY FOR 80% OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY. AND, SO, THAT GETS VERY TRICKY. SO, WHAT HABITAT DOES IS THEIR NATIONAL MODEL IS THAT THEY ALLOW A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF INCREASE. THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

AND NUMBER TWO, I WOULD SAY, GENERALLY, THESE HOMES THAT THE BUILDERS ARE TARGETING, FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING ARE TOWN HOMES, THEY'RE SMALLER MODELS. AND, SO, THE ODDS ARE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO UP TO THE $500,000 RANGE ANYWAY. I THINK IT WILL BE THE SMALLEST HOUSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO TRADE AT THE LOWER END OF THE PRICING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO, I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS WORTH ADDING MY

$0.02 ON THAT. >> THANK YOU.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT, SIR, AND I WISH I COULD HAVE TALKED TO YOU P ABOUT THIS, BEFORE ALL OF THIS. I DID REACH OUT TO ALL THE PEOPLE TO SEE IF IT WAS A STUPID IDEA, JUST THINKING

OUTSIDE OF THE BOX. >> IT'S NOT A STUPID IDEA, BUT,

THE IMPLEMENTATION IS DIFFICULT. >> YOU SAID YOU SPOKE WITH BILL

[02:20:04]

>> THE COMPLICATIONS SIMILAR TO WHAT MR. MATOVINA SAID. BUT, HE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IT SAID IT IS COMPLICATED, AND I TALKED TO COUNSEL HERE AND THEY SAID IT COMPLICATES THE SELLING PROCESS. I'M NOT 100% SURE OF NOT ABLE TO RECOUP THE MONEY BECAUSE IF THE LENDER HAS $200,000, OR IF IT GETS FORECLOSED ON, THEY'RE GOING TO RECOUP WHAT THEY LOANED ON. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A BIG APPRECIATION.

>> I MEANT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, DID HE HAVE

AN OPINION? >> I DO NOT RECALL ANY

PARTICULAR OPINION. THANK YOU. >> OKAY.

>> CHAIR: ANYTHING ELSE? >> CALL THE VOTE.

>> MS. SPIEGEL? >> NO.

>> DR. HILSENBECK? >> NO.

>> MR. PETER? >> NO.

>> MR. MATOVINA? >> YES.

[Staff Reports]

>> MR. PIERRE? >> YES.

>> MR. GREEN? >> YES.

>> CHAIR: IT'S A TIE, MEANS WE SEND IT TO THE BOARD AS A DENIAL. UNLESS THERE ARE ANYMORE MOTIONS OR ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE, IT'S A TECHNICAL DENIAL IN

RECOMMENDATION ONLY. >> CHAIR: DOES ANYBODY WANT

TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE? >> .

>> CHAIR: SEEING NONE, THAT'S HOW WE GO. OKAY. STAFF

REPORTS? ANYTHING FROM TERESA? >> YES, SIR. JUST TO BRING YOU

[Agency Reports]

>> SO, THE 4TH IS CANCELLED, BUT, THE 18TH IS SCHEDULED,

CORRECT? >> YES, SIR.

>> CHAIR: ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE AGENCY MEMBERS?

>> I JUST WANTED TO SAY, MR. PETER DID A WONDERFUL JOB AS CHAIR. DR. HILSENBECK AS VICE CHAIR, VERY SMOOTH MEETING AND I REALLY DO WANT TO SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU AND I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY HAS A SUPER NICE RELAXES FAMILY TIME JUST ENJOYING THE GOODNESS OF OUR GOD. THAT YOU CAN.

>> I WANT TO SAY, I'M WITH DR. HILSENBECK AS FAR AS THE TYPE OF INFORMATION THAT WE GET TO CONSIDER THESE ISSUES. I WAS AT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING TUESDAY, AND SOME OF THE INFORMATION WHICH WAS PRESENTED HAD IT BEEN PRESENTED TO THIS BOARD, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE CHANGED MY

VOTE. >> CHAIR: AND I WOULD ADD TO THAT, SINCE YOU WERE AT THE MEETING, YOU PROBABLY KNOW THEY DENIED THE

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.