Dec 01, 2020 Board of County Commissioners

[Call to Order by Chair]

[00:00:08]

BEFORE WE BEGIN OUR REGULAR MEETING, I HAVE A STATEMENT THAT WE READ AT EACH MEETING BECAUSE OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

AS A MATTER -- AS A PRELIMINARY MATTER, AS ACTING CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, I WANT TO CONFIRM ANY BOARD OR STAFF MEMBERS THAT ARE NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT CAN HEAR ME.

SO I WILL ASK. WHEN I CALL YOUR NAME, PLEASE RESPOND IN THE AFFIRMATIVE. WE'RE ONLY MISSING JEREMIAH.

COMMISSIONER LOCKLEAR, ARE YOU WITH US THIS MORNING? COMMISSIONER BLOCKER? STAFF, DO WE KNOW WILL HE WILL CALLING IN? OKAY.

WE'LL SEE. ARE THERE ANY COUNTY STAFF THAT ARE ON THE PHONE AS OPPOSED TO BEING HERE IN PERSON? COUNTY STAFF. OKAY.

WELL, WELCOME TO THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE ST. JOHNS COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN ORDER TO MITIGATE THE TRANSMISSION OF THE CORONAVIRUS AND REDUCE RISK OF COVID-19 ILLNESS, THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAS ADOPTED PROCEDURES TO CONDUCT MEETINGS USING REMOTE PARTICIPATION THROUGH ST. JOHNS COUNTY EMERGENCY ORDER NUMBER 2020-10 SO THAT THE PUBLIC HAS A MEANS TO COMMENT WITHOUT PHYSICALLY ATTENDING. ALONG WITH PRIOR COMMUNICATIONS, INCLUDING EMAIL, THE PUBLIC WILL BE ABLE TO COMMENT BY TELEPHONE WHILE WATCHING THE MEETING ON GOVERNMENT TV OR BY STREAMING -- BY STREAMING POSTED ON THE COUNTY'S WEBSITE.

THE WEBSITE ALSO PROVIDES THE TELEPHONE NUMBER TO USE TO CALL IN TO THE MEETING. EVEN IF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC DO NOT PROVIDE COMMENT, PARTICIPANTS ARE ADVISED THAT PEOPLE MAY BE LISTENING WHO DO NOT PROVIDE COMMENT AND THOSE PERSONS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS MEETING IS BEING RECORDED.

FOR THOSE OF YOU CALLING IN TO COMMENT, IF YOU RECEIVE A BUSY SIGNAL, PLEASE CALL BACK. IN ADDITION, PLEASE SELF-TIME THE THREE MINUTES TIME LIMIT BECAUSE THE THREE MINUTE TIMER MAY NOT BE VISIBLE TO USE. FINALLY, THESE MUTE YOUR PHONE WHILE WAITING TO COMMENT AND THEN MUTE THE MEETING ON YOUR TELEVISION OR COMPUTER WHEN YOU ARE SPEAKING.

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THERE MAY BE A 30-SECOND DELAY IN THE VISUAL PRESENTATIONS AND IF WE EXPERIENCE ANY TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES, WE WILL RECESS BRIEFLY WHILE THEY ARE RESOLVED AND THEN WE WILL RESUME THE MEETING.

THERE ARE MATERIALS FOR THIS MEETING AVAILABLE ON THE COUNTY WEBSITE UNDER AGENDAS AND MINUTES.

ONCE YOU FIND THE MEETING AGENDA, YOU CAN CLICK ON THE AGENDA ITEM TO ASSESS ALL OF THE SUPPORTING -- ACCESS ALL OF THE SUPPORTING MATERIALS. OKAY.

FINALLY, IF ANY MEMBER OF THE BOARD IS PARTICIPATING REMOTELY, THEN EACH VOTE TAKEN IN THIS MEETING WILL BE CONDUCTED BY ROLL CALL VOTE. SO WITH THAT, LET ME -- PATRICK, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. I JUST WAS HANDED A NOTE THAT COMMISSIONER BLOCKER WILL NOT BE ON THE PHONE TODAY.

THEN THOSE OF US PRESENT, CAN WE TAKE OUR ROLL CALL -- OUR VOTE

BY MACHINE THEN? >> YES, SIR.

>> OKAY, WE'LL BE TAKING VOTES USING OUR YES/NO MACHINE AT THIS POINT ON ANY ITEMS THAT REQUIRE A VOTE.

WITH THAT SAID, IF WE CAN, LET'S CALL THE ROLL PLEASE.

>> VICE CHAIR COMMISSIONER HENRY DEAN.

>> HERE. >> COMMISSIONER CHRISTIAN

WHITEHURST. >> PRESENT.

>> COMMISSIONER JEB SMITH. >> PRESENT.

>> COMMISSIONER WALDRON. >> PRESENT.

>> WE HAVE A QUORUM. WE'LL BEGIN WITH THE INVOCATION BY THE PASTOR. I HOPE I HAVE THAT CLOSE.

>> CLOSE ENOUGH. GOOD MORNING.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRAY OVER THE MEETING THIS MORNING.

ROMANS 15:13 SAYS, MAY THE GOD OF HOPE FILL YOU WITH ALL JOY AND PEACE IN BELIEVING SO THAT BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU MAY ABOUND IN HOPE. LET'S PRAY.

LORD, WE THANK YOU FOR THIS MEETING THIS MORNING.

AND GOD, WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THIS AND TO PRAY, GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRAY OVER THE MEETING THIS MORNING. LORD, WE JUST PRAY FOR JOY AND PEACE TO FILL THIS ROOM AND TO FILL THIS MEETING.

AND THANK YOU FOR THE HOPE THAT WE HAVE, LORD, IN JESUS CHRIST, ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME OF YEAR. IN JESUS' NAME, AMEN.

[00:05:03]

THANK YOU. >> AMEN.

NOW I ASK COMMISIONER WALDRON TO LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF

ALLEGIANCE. >> PLEASE JOIN US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. THANK YOU.

>> PLEASE BE SEATED AND NOW WE HAVE NO PROCLAMATIONS THIS MORNING. SO THAT TAKES US DIRECTLY TO

[Public Comment]

>> THANK YOU, MR. VICE CHAIR. AT THIS TIME THE BOARD WILL HEAR A PUBLIC COMMENT ON MATTERS NOT ON THE REGULAR AGENDA.

REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS WILL HAVE THEIR OWN PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.

ANY PERSON WISHING TO ADDRESS THE BOARD SHOULD COME TO THE PODIUM AND STATE HIS OR HER NAME AND ADDRESS.

EACH PERSON WILL BE PROVIDED THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK AND SHALL COMPLY TO THE BOARD'S DECORUM. COUNTIES WILL BE ADDRESSED TO THE BOARD AS A WHOLE AND MAY NOT HAVE A DEMAND TO ADDRESS.

MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE SHOULD REFRAIN FROM DISRUPTIVE DEMONSTRATION OF APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF ANY COMMENTS.

ANY SPEAKERS THAT PRESENTS ANY OVERHEAD MATERIAL, PLEASE PRESENT THE MATERIAL TO THE STAFF OF THE CLERK OF THE COURT TO BE ENTERED INTO PUBLIC RECORD.

WE'RE OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. AND WE'LL GO TO THE PHONES FIRST. IT APPEARS WE HAVE THREE PHONE CALLS ALREADY. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. GOOD MORNING.

GOOD MORNING.

GOOD MORNING. ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL TAKE -- WE'LL TAKE -- WHAT'S THAT, DANNY? OKAY. WE WILL TAKE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE. ANYBODY THIS MORNING HAVE ANYTHING THEY WOULD LIKE TO SAY? MS. BADGER.

ANYBODY ELSE, IF YOU WOULD, WE'VE GOT TWO MICROPHONES.

>> SHERRY BADGER, 2772 SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE.

I AM COMING BEFORE Y'ALL TODAY ON NUMBER 8, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO SWEAR IN YOUR EMPLOYEES.

AND WHEN YOU HAVE THESE MATTERS COME BEFORE YOU, YOU NEED TO SWEAR EMPLOYEES BECAUSE THERE'S FALSE INFORMATION GETTING TO Y'ALL AND IT'S THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM EMPLOYEES OR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING. SO I'M ASKING FOR YOU TO SWEAR YOUR EMPLOYEES IN. THANK YOU, GOD BLESS, HAVE A

GOOD DAY. >> THANK YOU.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS.

JEFF SAMPLE WITH THE WATER DISTRICT JACKSONVILLE SERVICE CENTER. I'VE GOT THE BUREAU OF LAND RESOURCES SUPERVISOR. AND WE'RE HERE BECAUSE WE'RE ANNOUNCING WE'RE HAVING A PUBLIC MEETING ON THE LAND MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE JEWELLINGTON PRESERVE, A 2,000 ACRE PRESERVE IN THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE AND DUVAL COUNTY AND A SMALL PORTION OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY JUST NORTH OF RACETRACK ROAD WHERE THESE A KAYAK LAUNCH AND USED BY A LOT OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY RESIDENTS BUT THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE DOES THE MANAGEMENT SO THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD THING FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

I WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT OVER TO BRETT TO TELL YOU MORE ABOUT THE PUBLIC MEETING AND PROCESS WE'RE GOING THROUGH TO UPDATE THE

MANAGEMENT PLAN. >> THANK YOU.

GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING, THANK YOU CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. JEFF INTRODUCED THAT WE'RE ANNOUNCING THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE JEWELLINGTON PRESERVE LAND MANAGEMENT PLAN ON WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 16TH, 2020, AT 6:00 PM. THE PURPOSE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING IS TO RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE DISTRICT'S TEN YEAR LAND MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE PRESERVE.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT REGIONALLY SIGNIFICANT PROPERTY.

[00:10:03]

WE'VE BEEN IN CONSULTATION WITH ST. JOHNS COUNTY STAFF.

THEY HELPED WITH THE PRELIMINARY REVIEW OF THE PLAN AND HAVE BEEN A PART OF OUR MANAGEMENT ADVISORY GROUP FOR DEVELOPING A PLAN. AND SO WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO INVITE LEADERSHIP AND RESIDENTS OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY TO BE A PART OF THIS PROCESS. ONCE AGAIN, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS ON WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 16TH, AT 6:00 PM.

WE'RE GOING TO BE CONDUCTING IT ONLINE THROUGH VIRTUAL PLATFORM TO HELP PREVENT THE SPREAD OF COVID-19, HELP PROTECT OUR COMMUNITIES. AND THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH AND PARTICIPATE IN THE MEETING USING THE GO TO WEBINAR ONLINE COMMUNICATION TOOL. AN OPTION TO CALL IN BY TELEPHONE FOR THOSE WITH LIMITED OR NO INTERNET ACCESS.

COMMENTS MAY BE PRESENTED ORALLY OR IN WRITING THROUGH THE GO TO WEBINAR. WRITTEN COMMENTS CAN ALSO BE SUBMITTED AHEAD OF TIME VIA EMAIL OR TRADITIONAL SNAIL MAIL.

A COPY OF THE PLAN IS -- A DRAFT COPY OF THE PLAN IS AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW IF ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE IT.

ADDITIONAL DETAILS CAN BE FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE IN THE MEETINGS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS SECTION OF OUR WEBSITE.

AND WE CAN PROVIDE ADDITIONAL DETAILS FROM COUNTY STAFF IF YOU ARE INTERESTED. SO ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE GLAD TO BE HERE. THANKS FOR THE TIME TO MAKE THIS

QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK, Y'ALL. >> THANKS, GUYS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

BJ KALADI, WEST CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

CONSENT AGENDA ITEM 18, WE CONTINUE TO WAIT FROM MR. RINGHAVER. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS NOT ARRESTED THE SELFISH INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE NO RESPECT. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 9 SHOULD BE HEARD BEFORE ITEM NUMBER 1. OR EVEN BEFORE ALL THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS. DEVELOPERS AND THEIR TEAMS ARE PAID TO SIT IN THESE MEETINGS. CONCERNED CITIZENS ARE NOT PAID WHEN BRINGING QUALITY OF LIFE CONCERNS BEFORE THIS BOARD.

CONSENT AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16 SHOULD BE PULLED AND PUT AS REGULAR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 10. IF THIS IS WHAT THE CLERK, MR. PATTY, PRESENED OCTOBER 20, 2020.

MR. PATTY SHOULD CONTINUE TO CONVERT EXCESS REVENUE TAX, ALSO KNOWN AS TAX DOLLARS, TO THE BCC.

THE SEVEN HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

REMEMBER, IT'S VERY INTERESTING WHO JUST GOT UP HERE.

REMEMBER LAMP, L-A-M-P, ON NOVEMBER 17TH, 2020, REPRESENTED BY SPEAKERS REQUESTED TAX DOLLARS FOR LAND ACQUISITION.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS TRANSPARENCY, PERSONNEL COST VERSUS PRESERVATION. WE ARE NOT ALL GOING TO BE HERE FOREVER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE THING IS.

WE WENT IN TWO THINGS TO GET IN TODAY.

WE'LL HAVE TO FLY OVER SOMETHING TO GET INTO THESE MEETINGS.

BUT WE'LL KEEP DOING WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AND HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY WON'T GET SICK. BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE'S ONE PLACE WE'RE HEADED, FOLKS. YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER THAT.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE READY FOR IT. I'M READY.

I'M FLYING IN HERE, WALKING IN HERE, TALKING IN HERE, BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS COUNTY AND THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND WHAT'S HAPPENING TO IT. IT'S GOOD TO SEE THE CROWD TODAY. I'M PLEASED TO SEE THE PEOPLE HERE SO PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED, NOT JUST DEVELOPERS AND THEIR TEAM MEMBERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. AND I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING TOO.

I'VE GOT 22 SECONDS. I CAN SAY A LOT.

THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CALLING IN, IF THEY DON'T GET IN WHENEVER THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, THAT'S IT. TECHNOLOGY, FIX IT, BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE IN HERE, WE HAVE THREE MINUTES.

AND AFTER THE TIME FOR THE PUBLIC TO SPEAK, WE'RE DONE.

WE'RE NOT GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE. LET'S BE NOT DISCRIMINATING.

[00:15:06]

THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT, WE'LL TAKE PHONE

>> HELLO. >> HELLO, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME

AND ADDRESS. >> THIS IS ED, BOX 3084.

THANK YOU FOR TAKING PUBLIC COMMENT.

I WANT TO QUOTE JAMES MADISON WHO WROTE IN 1823 THAT A POPULAR GOVERNMENT WITHOUT POPULAR INFORMATION IS A PRELUDE TO TRAGEDY OR FARCE. I AGREE WITH THEM ABOUT ITEM 9 ON THE AGENDA TODAY. FIRST OF ALL, I SPOKE TO THE TWO OF THE COMMISSIONERS, THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR, FIRST BY VOICE MAIL. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THE BACKUP FOR THAT ITEM IN FRONT OF YOU. IT'S NOT IN THE BOOK.

AND I'M WONDERING WHY. I'M THINKING OF ANOTHER TIME BACK ON AUGUST THE 1ST OF 2011 WHEN ITEM 1 ON THAT AGENDA, NO BACKUP MATERIAL. AND THAT'S WHEN MICHAEL DAVID PULLED THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER US ON THE ST. AUGUSTINE HISTORICAL PARK AND NATIONAL SEASHORE. IT'S NOW JUST A FAUX PAS TO HAVE NO BACKUP MATERIAL ON ITEM 9, IT IS DISDAINFUL AND DISRESPECTFUL.

FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, MS. BADGER -- BY THE WAY, LET'S DECLARE AUGUST 8TH BJ KALEDI DAY.

SHE'S BEEN RAISING CONCERNS ABOUT HOW OUR COUNTY WITHOUT THE COUNTY ENGINEER AT THE TIME EVEN BEING AN ACTUAL ENGINEER ALLOWED THIS FLOODING TO PERSIST AT SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE.

I'VE BEEN TO THE SITE. I WAS THERE WITH HER.

I LOOKED AT IT. FOR 18 MONTHS SHE HAS COME TO THE COMMISSION. HOW DO YOU TREAT HER? YOUR STAFF PUTS DISDAINFULLY ITEM 9 ON THE AGENDA WITH NO BACKUP INFORMATION, DOESN'T SHARE THE BACKUP INFORMATION OR WHATEVER THE STAFF REPORT IS GOING TO BE WITH MRS. BADGER AND HER NEIGHBORS. HOW RUDE AND CONDESCENDING.

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT. YOU SHOULD FIRE PATRICK FRANCIS MCCORMACK AND YOU SHOULD TERMINATE THE CONTRACT OF YOUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, CONRAD, HIRED WITHOUT A NATIONAL SEARCH, WITHOUT A STATEWIDE SEARCH, WITHOUT A POSTING OR ADVERTISING WITHOUT WOMEN OR AFRICAN-AMERICANS CONSIDERED.

AND THE PEOPLE NEED TO BE HEARD AND HEEDED.

WHEN YOU HAVE TO COME BACK 18 MONTHS IN A ROW ABOUT THE FLOODING CONCERN THAT IS A RESULT OF CORRUPTION IN ST.

JOHNS COUNTY AND INCOMPETENCE ON THE PART OF THE STAFF, SHE DESERVES A MEDAL, NOT A KICK IN THE TEETH.

YOU NEED TO THANK THEM AND STOP READING THAT STATEMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF PUBLIC COMMENT TRYING TO INFRINGE UPON OUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. WE HAVE A RIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, TO CALL FOR IMMEDIATE ACTION. AND I WOULD LIKE TO CALL FOR THE IMMEDIATE FIRING OR MR. MCCORMACK AND MR. CONRAD.

AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR FIRING MICHAEL DAVID [INDISCERNIBLE].

IT WAS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTY.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTY WITH INCOMPETENCE AND POLITICAL [INDISCERNIBLE] HIRING. REPUBLICAN RULE, ALL WHITE, ALL MALE, AND ALL INCONSIDERATE ALL THE TIME.

LEARN SOME MANNERS. >> GOOD MORNING.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> [INDISCERNIBLE] COURT, ST. AUGUSTINE BEACH, FLORIDA.

FIRST OF ALL, COMMISSIONERS PLEASE REMOVE JEREMIAH BLOCKER FROM THE CHAIR. THE PEOPLE OF ST. JOHNS COUNTY DESERVES SOMEBODY WHO OBEYS THE LAW, THE COUNTY ORDINANCE, AND RESPECTS WOMEN. THAT'S NOT JEREMIAH BLOCKER.

NOW HE'S NOT HERE FOR HIS SECOND MEETING AS CHAIR.

THIS IS A DISGRACE. AND I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING, EVERYBODY KNOWS WHERE JEREMIAH BLOCKER IS.

HE'S OUT MAKING HIMSELF ANOTHER PENSION ALONG WITH HIS PENSION FROM THE COUNTY [INDISCERNIBLE]. WHAT DOES HE WANT TO BE? DOES HE WANT TO BE A COUNTY COMMISSIONER? HE NEEDS TO BE HERE. HOW MUCH LONGER IS THE COUNTY GOING TO ABUSE MRS. BADGER? HOW MUCH LONGER? THERE'S NOTHING GOING ON THERE BUT MRS. BADGER IS BEING ABUSED.

AND I WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW HER PERSONALLY, BUT I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, FROM WATCHING HER FROM THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF AND LISTENING TO HER, SHE IS CORRECT ON THIS MATTER. PLEASE GET MRS. BADGER'S PROBLEM

[00:20:05]

WHY? NOW, I WANT TO REMIND YOU, COMMISSIONERS, OF PATRICK [INDISCERNIBLE] NO-BID CONTRACT FOR THE [INDISCERNIBLE] THEATER. REMEMBER THAT FIASCO WHEN THE COUNTY LEFT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON THE TABLE TO TAKE CARE OF UNDERCOVER REPUBLICAN PATRICK [INDISCERNIBLE]. I'VE GOT SUSPICION.

I SUSPECT CORRUPTION, SOMETHING FUNNY GOING ON WITH THIS MACK MCCLOUD. HE REPRESENTED THE DEPUTY JEREMIAH BANKS, THE MURDERER JEREMIAH BANKS, THE ONE WHO MURDERED MICHELLE O'CONNELL. I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING, COMMISSIONERS, WHEN I KEEP GOING BACK AND THINKING ABOUT THIS MAC MCCLOUD AND THIS CONTRACT, I KEEP SAYING SOMETHING'S WRONG AND THERE'S CORRUPTION HERE, THE SAME THING I THOUGHT WHEN PATRICK PULLED THE NO-BID CONTRACT WITH THE COUNTY AND GOT THAT AMPHITHEATER. FURTHERMORE, IT IS YOUR JOB TO MAKE SURE THINGS ARE HONEST AND STRAIGHT HERE.

I ASK YOU THOUGH LOOK INTO IT. I LIKE MCCORMACK.

HE'S A GOOD GUY. BUT TODAY WOULD BE A GOOD DAY TO FIRE HIM BECAUSE EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON IN THIS COUNTY,

MCCORMACK IS BEHIND IT. >> THANK YOU.

>> AND I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING, FOR ME NOT TO GET THE SIMPLE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE PATRICK NEEDS TO ANSWER FOR IT AND IF HE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT, HE

NEEDS TO BE FIRED TODAY. >> THANK YOU.

>> LET'S DO A BETTER JOB NEXT YEAR BECAUSE THIS YEAR I GIVE THE COUNTY A BIG FAT F. GET THEM OUT OF THERE.

THEY BOTH BROKE THE LAW. THANK YOU FOR TAKING PUBLIC

COMMENTS. >> GOOD MORNING, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. NO MORE.

ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE AUDIENCE THIS MORNING? SEEING NONE, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, WE WILL NOW CLOSE PUBLIC

[Consent Agenda]

COMMENTS. >> THANK YOU.

WE'RE BACK TO REGULAR AGENDA WHERE WE CONSIDER DELETIONS TO THE CONSENT AGENDA. ANY?

>> NO. >> COMMISSIONER WALDRON?

>> NO, MR. VICE CHAIR. >> COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST?

>> NO, MR. VICE CHAIR. >> OKAY, I HAVE NONE.

DO I HAVE A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA APPROVAL?

>> SO MOVED. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY YES. >> YES.

>> YE. >> YES.

>> OKAY, THAT'S APPROVED. NOW LET'S GO TO THE REGULAR

[Regular Agenda]

>> NO, MR. VICE CHAIR. >> COMMISSIONER WALDRON?

>> NO. >> COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST.

>> NO. >> DO I HAVE A MOTION?

>> SO MOVED. >> SECOND.

[1. Public Hearing * LDC Amendment - Short Term Vacation Rentals.]

>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY YE. >> YE.

>> NUMBER 1 ON THE REGULAR AGENDA.

JOE, ARE YOU WE -- WITH US? >> AS WE START NUMBER 1, WHAT WE'RE DOING THIS MORNING IS WE'RE GETTING A PRESENTATION FROM STAFF. WE WILL HAVE PROBABLY SOME DISCUSSION AMONG BOARD MEMBERS AND ALSO PUBLIC COMMENT FROM ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS, BUT WE'RE NOT VOTING ON THE ACTUAL PROPOSED RULE TODAY.

ALL WE'RE DOING TODAY IS AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION IS IF WE APPROVE IT, WE'RE GOING TO BE VOTING ON SETTING THE DATE FOR THE HEARING BEFORE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENCY AND THEN SETTING THE DATE FOR US. SO THAT'S THE ACTION WE'RE GOING TO BE TAKING TODAY IS, IF ANY, IS SETTING THOSE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, JUST FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION.

BUT WE WELCOME EVERYONE'S COMMENT ON THE ITEM WHEN WE GET TO PUBLIC COMMENT. SO JOE.

>> THANKS FOR CLARIFYING THAT, COMMISSIONER DEAN.

FOR THE RECORD, JOE CEARLEY, NUMBER 1 ON THE AGENDA.

PROVIDE A LITTLE BACKGROUND, IT'S BEEN SOME TIME SINCE WE'VE BEEN BACK IN FRONT OF THE BOARD. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON ABOUT TWO YEARS. SEVERAL YEARS BACK COMMISSIONERS AND THE ADMINISTRATION AT THAT TIME HAD FIELDED NUMEROUS PHONE

[00:25:03]

NEIGHBORHOODS. >> JOE, EXCUSE ME.

CAN EVERYONE HEAR JOE OKAY? WHY DON'T YOU GO MASKLESS?

>> MY APOLOGIES. STAFF HELD SEVERAL COMMUNIY MEETINGS AND PUT A SURVEY ONLINE FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO TAKE.

AND THAT CONCLUDED THAT A MAJORITY OF THE PARTICIPANTS OBVIOUSLY WANTED VACATION RENTALS REGULATED IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY. HERE'S A BACKGROUND HISTORY OF HOW LONG STAFF AND ADMINISTRATION HAVE BEEN WE'VE HELD SEVERAL, STARTING AS EARLY AS OCTOBER 9TH WE HELD OUR FIRST COMMUNITY WORKSHOP, A BCC DISCUSSION TO FOLLOW UP THOSE RESULTS. AT THAT POINT COMMISSIONERS ASKED STAFF TO BRING BACK TWO OPTIONS OF REGULATIONS.

I THINK WE HELD SEVERAL OTHER COMMUNITY WORKSHOPS ON THOSE TWO OPTIONS, THE MAJORITY AND THE COMMISSIONERS ON MARCH 17TH, THE LAST MEETING IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD, DECIDED TO GO WITH OPTION 2 WHICH HAD ADDITIONAL APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS AND I BELIEVE HAD ADDITIONAL INSPECTIONS AS WELL.

AND JUST TO REMIND THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND COMMISSIONERS AND EVERYONE HERE, FLORIDA STATUTE ALLOWS A JURISDICTION TO REGULATE RENTALS SO LONG AS IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT THEM OR LIMIT THE DURATION OR FREQUENCY OF THE RENTAL.

THIS WAS THE OPTION THE BOARD HAD CHOSEN AND FAVORED BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. IT STARTS OUT WITH EXEMPTIONS.

THE PROPOSED REGULATIONS WOULD EXPERIMENT PROPERTIES WEST OF THE WATERWAY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION AND OWNER OCCUPIED UNITS AND DUPLEXES. THE BCC DISCUSSED ANNUAL REGISTRATION AND INSPECTION. AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW, THE ORDINANCE, IT IS WRITTEN TO PROVIDE FOR ANNUAL REGISTRATION, ANNUAL INSPECTIONS. HOWEVER, THIS IS A DISCUSSION FROM BCC LAST TIME. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO REQUIRE ANNUAL INSPECTION AND APPLICATION REQUIREMENT BUT THE STAFF IS SEEKING BOARD DIRECTION ON THAT AS WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IMPACTS THAT WOULD HAVE ON STAFF, IF THERE WERE TO BE NO INSPE INSPECTIONS.

APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS, IT'S SIMPLE.

A SITE PLAN, RECEIPT, CERTIFICATE OF PAYMENT OF TAXES AND LICENSE AS A TRANSIENT PUBLIC LODGING ESTABLISHMENT.

ONCE APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION OR IF THE APPLICATION WAS APPROVED, STAFF WOULD PROVIDE -- THE COUNTY WOULD PROVIDE A STICKER THEY WOULD PUT ON THE DOOR.

THIS WOULD BE DISPLAYED OUTSIDE. IT WOULD INDICATE THE NUMBER OF OCCUPANTS, OWNER CONTACT INFORMATION AND NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. A NEW APPLICATION WOULD BE REQUIRED IF THERE'S AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF ROOMS OR OCCUPANCY. OCCUPANCY STANDARDS WOULD REQUIRE TWO PERSONS PER SLEEPING ROOM PLUS TWO ADDITIONAL OCCUPANTS PER COMMON ROOM AND CAP AT 16 PERSONS.

THIS IS DIFFERENT IN OPTION 2 THAN 1.

PARKING WOULD REQUIRE ONE PARKING SPACE PER 3 OCCUPANTS.

YOU COULD UTILIZE THE EXISTING PARKING ON SITE AND ON STREET PARKING SUBJECT TO THE EXISTING PARKING ORDINANCES.

SOLID WASTE WOULD -- WE'VE RECEIVED A FEW COMPLAINTS OF TRASH LEFT OUT MULTIPLE DAYS AFTERWARDS AND TRASH BLOWING AROUND.

THE COMPLAINT WITH NOISE ORDINANCE WOULD COMPLY WITH 2015-19 WHICH PROHIBITS THE USE OF SOUND EQUIPMENT FROM 10:00 PM TO 7:00 AM SUNDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AND FROM 11:00 PM TO 7:00 AM FRIDAY AND SATURDAY. FINES WOULD BE SET BY RESOLUTION AND WOULD BE ISSUED FOR NON-COMPLIANCE WITH SITE PLAN REQUIREMENTS OR APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS OR IF THERE WERE ANY NOISE COMPLAINTS OR OTHER COMPLAINTS.

IT WOULD BE ENFORCED BY ALL LEGAL MEANS NECESSARY INCLUDING [INDISCERNIBLE] RELIEF. VESTING RENTAL AGREEMENTS EXISTING PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE ORDINANCE WOULD BE HONORED [INDISCERNIBLE]. THIS WAS A BIT OF CONTINGENT ITEM. I'VE RECEIVED QUITE A FEW EMAILS

[00:30:01]

SO SOME THINGS TO CONSIDER, WE DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS WE SHALL RECEIVE. WE TRIED TO GATHER SOME INFORMATION FROM THE TAX COLLECTOR.

WHAT WE DID GATHER SOME YEARS BACK, I THINK THEY WERE UPWARD OF 2500 APPLICATIONS THEY HAD RECEIVED FROM THE PAYMENT OF TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAXES. HOWEVER, WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT NUBER IS LOWER OR HIGHER. SO WE DON'T KNOW THE BURDEN THAT WILL TAKE ON STAFF. SO ONE OPTION WOULD BE A APPLICATION INTAKE RATHER THAN THE BURDEN ON STAFF.

WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE CHEAPER, MORE EXPENSIVE.

STAFF SUGGESTED A FEE OF $150 TO COVER THE COST.

WE ROLLED OUT SOMETHING A LITTLE LESS EXPENSIVE.

SPEAKING WITH OTHER DIRECTORS FROM OTHER COUNTIES AND JURISDICTIONS THAT INITIATED THIS PROCESS, THEIR CONSTANTLY TWEAKING THEIR FEES BASED ON HOW MANY APPLICATIONS THEY GET.

ONE THING TO CONSIDER THE FIRST -- LAST MEETING FROM THE BCC WAS THE VESTING AGREEMENTS, THERE'S QUITE A FEW OF THEM.

WHEN STAFF REVIEWS THE SITE PLANS, WE'LL BE GOING FOR THE VESTING AGREEMENTS AS WELL AND WITH SPEAKING WITH SEVERAL OTHER JURISDICTIONS, THEY HAD UPWARDS OF 100 VESTING LEASE AGREEMENTS STAFF HAD TO REVIEW. I THINK WE SET A REVIEW TIME CLOSE TO 100 BUCKS FOR INITIAL APPLICATION FOR STAFF REVIEW AND 50 FOR THE INSPECTION FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT AND IF REINSPECTED AN ADDITIONAL $50. THAT'S COMPARABLE TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS. I'M COMPILING MORE JURISDICTIONAL INFORMATION TO HONE IN THE FEE.

THAT CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION. I KNOW THE BOARD IS FAMILIAR WITH THESE OPTIONS AND WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE HERE TO SPEAK WITH PUBLIC COMMENT. STAFF IS HERE.

WE HAVE OTHER STAFF HERE AS WELL TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

>> ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT? OKAY, LET'S -- WE'LL HEAR NOW FROM THE PUBLIC ON ITEM 1. JUST NAME, ADDRESS, AND REMEMBER, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

>> MY NAME IS DAVID GOLDBERG. THIS IS MY WIFE BARBARA GOLDBERG. WE LIVE IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

WE HAVE CONCERNS. WHEREAS INDIVIDUALS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHTS TO RENT THEIR PROPERTIES AS THEY SEE IT, NEIGHBORS NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM CATERED PARTIES, LIGHT NOISE, DRUNKENNESS AND BOISTEROUS BEHAVIOR.

THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SEEN. THE OWNER OF THE HOME NEXT DOOR TOLD MY WIFE IF WE DON'T LIKE IT WE SHOULD CALL THE POLICE.

WE DID. THERE WAS A DEEJAY.

HE STOPPED. THE POLICE LEFT.

HE STARTED AGAIN. >> IT WAS USED FOR A WEDDING, WHICH HE HAS DONE NUMEROUS TIMES.

>> I SENT PICTURES ACTUALLY TO COMMISSIONER WALDRON.

I SENT IT TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT, MR. PAINTER, ON FRIDAY WHEN THEY WERE SETTING UP THE TENTS.

>> TENTS. >> AND THEY HAD ALL THE --

>> IN THE DRIVEWAY. >> AND THEY HAD ALL THE TRUCKS AND DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING. THEY HAD THEIR VENUE AND THEN ON TUESDAY, I WAS CONTACTED BY CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER PAINTER THAT HE WAS CITING THEM AND THEY SHOULDN'T DO THIS AGAIN.

>> FROM A PREVIOUS WEDDING BECAUSE SOMEBODY WENT ON WEDDING WIRE AND PUT IT DOWN THAT THEY USED IT AS A WEDDING IN JULY OF 2020. SO IT'S BEEN USED AT LEAST THREE

TIMES AS A WEDDING VENUE. >> AND THE PERSON SAID, "WELL, I

ALREADY HAD IT SCHEDULED." >>THE OWNER.

AND IT'S OWNED BY A CORPORATION, THE HOUSE.

>> WE'RE REQUESTING AS AIRBNB IS GOING PUBLIC, EVERYBODY KNOWS, AND THEY ARE FORBIDDING THE USAGE OF THESE PROPERTIES FOR VENUES AND PARTIES. AND IT SAYS NO PARTIES.

WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE UP THERE NO VENUES, NO PARTIES.

AIRBNB ALSO IS FORBIDDING LOCALS FROM RENTING OUT A HOUSE IN THE SAME OR NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES, MEANING AN INDIVIDUAL SAYS, "I WANT A NICE BIG PARTY. SO WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS I'M GOING TO NOT USE MY HOME. I'M GOING TO GO A MILE DOWN THE ROAD, RENT A HOUSE, AND INVITE EVERYBODY AROUND.

SO EVEN THOUGH WE'RE RENTING IT TO 6 OR 10 PEOPLE, WE'VE GOT 50

PEOPLE THERE." >> RIGHT.

>> SO NO VENUES, NO PARTIES, NO LOCALS COMING IN.

THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TELLS US HE HAS TO SEE IT.

I'VE GOT PICTURES, AN EMAIL, I'M RECORDING IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY HAVE TO SEE IT.

[00:35:01]

ANY TIME LOUDER VOLUME THAN THE CONFINES OF THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE PROPERTY IS IN VIOLATION, NOT 10:00 TO 7:00 OR 11:00 TO

7:00 ON THE WEEKEND. >> WE APPRECIATE YOUR

COOPERATION IN HELPING US OUT. >> WE NEED HELP.

>> THANK YOU. >> ANYONE ELSE THIS MORNING? WE HAVE TWO MICROPHONES. PLEASE COME UP SO WE CAN

EXPEDITE THE PUBLIC COMMENT. >> CAN I SAY ONE THING?

>> YES, SIR. JUST WANT TO LET THE GOLDBERGS KNOW, I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT ANSWERING THEIR EMAIL.

I WAS A LITTLE OCCUPIED BACK IN JULY.

BUT STAFF DID TAKE CARE OF IT AND SEND IT ON FOR ME TO

[INDISCERNIBLE]. >> GOOD MORNING.

>> I HAVE A SKETCH I WOULD LIKE TO PUT UP.

>> SURE, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. >> YEP.

GOOD MORNING. I'M MEL LONGO, 620 21ST STREET.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN DO A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN WHAT Y'ALL SHOW THERE. IF YOU LOOK UP ON OUR SKETCH, THIS IS THE BLOCK THAT I LIVE ON A COUPLE OF BLOCKS SOUTH OF BOATING CLUB ROAD. WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL FOR 14 TOTAL HOMES. CURRENTLY THERE'S ONLY FIVE FULL-TIME RESIDENTS ON MY BLOCK. WHEN I MOVED TO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, IT WAS FULL OF LONG-TERM RESIDENTS WITH A CULTURE THAT IS ENVIABLE FOR MOST NEIGHBORHOODS.

WE'RE DOWN TO ONLY FIVE ON MY BLOCK.

THERE'S THREE ON MY SIDE OF THE BLOCK THAT ARE FULL-TIME SHORT-TERM VACATION RENTALS. AND THEY ADVERTISE THEY CAN PUT 10 BEDS IN THESE LITTLE NARROW HOUSES.

ON THE NORTH SIDE OF OUR BLOCK, THERE'S ONLY ONE RENTAL HOUSE, BUT THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR THREE MORE.

AND THERE ARE THREE FULL-TIME RESIDENTS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF OUR BLOCK. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS NORTH BEACH USED TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT YOU HAD TO HAVE A 100 BY 100 LOT TO BUILD ON. THAT COVENANT EXPIRED AND THE REAL ESTATE LAWYERS FIGURED OUT THEY COULD BUY 100 BY 100 OLD HOME, TEAR IT DOWN AND PUT TWO HOMES.

NOW THEY'RE ON 50 BY 100 LOTS AND IT'S DOUBLED OUR DENSITY.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THAT WE'RE NO LONGER A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. THE STATE POLITICIANS IN THEIR INFINITE WISDOM HAVE STEPPED ALL OVER OUR LOCAL ZONING LAWS.

THEY DON'T MEAN A THING. AND SO, IF I UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT, THE GUY WHO WROTE THAT LEGISLATURE OWNS A LOT OF RENTAL PROPERTY IN OTHER PARTS OF FLORIDA.

SO WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? SO WE'RE SUFFERING FROM -- I THINK 16 IS WAY TOO MANY. I AGREE WITH THE PREVIOUS COUPLE. WE'VE HAD NEIGHBORS LOOK ACROSS THE FENCE AND THEY'RE OUT THERE SKINNY-DIPPING.

THESE HOUSES THEY'RE BUILDING NOW ALL HAVE SMALL POOLS.

HE LOOKS OVER THERE, THEY'RE SKINNY-DIPPING IN FRONT OF HIS KIDS. I HAVE SMALL BOATS IN MY BACKYARD. THEY'RE STEALING EQUIPMENT FROM IT. THEY'RE COMING DOWN THERE TRESPASSING, RUNNING OUT ON OUR DOCKS.

WE'RE A COMMERCIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE BOUGHT.

AND SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO NOT ONLY REGULATE THESE GUYS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, BUT PUT SOME MEAT IN IT.

THIS DOESN'T DO US ANY GOOD TO CALL CODE ENFORCEMENT AT 10:00 IN THE EVENING. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS SCOTT STANLEY, 626 21ST STREET. I'M NEIGHBORS WITH MEL.

WE VOTED FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE BUT WE AGREE ON THIS, SO THERE IS HOPE. MEL DESCRIBED IT ACCURATELY THERE. WHAT WE HAVE OUR SHOTGUN SHACKS.

THEY'RE NARROW, LONG, AND PUT ON SMALL LOTS.

THERE ARE NO GARAGES. THE CLOSETS ARE TINY.

SEVEN OF THOSE RESIDENTS THAT MEL WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT ARE RENTALS TODAY WERE BUILT FOR ONE PURPOSE, A RENTAL.

THEY TORE DOWN THE TREES, PAVED A FRONT YARD.

NOW THAT'S OUR NEIGHBORS. IT'S RIDICULOUS.

THE FOOT TRAFFIC GOING UP AND DOWN OUR STREET ALL TIMES OF THE DAY AND NIGHT. THERE'S A SMALL PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE INNER COASTAL HERE AT THE END OF THE STREET.

[00:40:01]

PEOPLE COME IN AND OUT ALL TIMES OF THE DAY AND NIGHT.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR. AS MEL SAID, WE HAVE LIVED THERE FOR A LONG TIME. CAN ANYBODY TELL MY HOW MANY OF THE RENTALS -- WE'LL HEAR FROM PEOPLE TODAY THAT OWN ONE RENTAL, MOM AND POP. THAT'S FINE.

I OWN 8 RENTALS IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

THEY'RE LONG-TERM AND PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO PEOPLE.

BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE BUILDING OR THESE BUSINESSES BUILDING THESE SHOTGUN SHACKS DON'T -- THEY DON'T CARE. THEY DON'T LIVE HERE AND PROBABLY DON'T PAY TAXES HERE. I AGREE WITH MEL.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TEETH. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LOCALLY WE CAN DO, BUT THERE ARE PROBABLY MORE OF THESE BUSINESSES OWNING RENTAL PROPERTIES HERE THAN THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS.

IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE, IT WILL.

I MEAN, THESE LARGE REAL ESTATE INVESTMENTS TRUST ORGANIZATIONS, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY'VE DONE IT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND HAVE NO REGARD FOR THE COMMUNITIES THEY'RE DESTROYING AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

IT SEEMS TO BE NO END. AND WITH WHATEVER LOTS ARE LEFT JUST IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN VELANO BEACH, THERE'S FEW I SEE GOING UP WITH LONG-TERM RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES AND JUST THE NEXT BLOCK OVER FROM WHERE MEL AND I LIVE, THE SAME PEOPLE BUILDING THE SHOTGUN SHACKS BOUGHT ANOTHER 200, 300 FEET ON 22ND STREET. SO JUST THINK ABOUT THAT.

I MEAN, WHEN I COME HOME, I'M GOING TO HAVE NEW NEIGHBORS EVERY NIGHT, EVERY OTHER NIGHT. AND IT'S JUST REALLY GETTING OLD. SO THE MORE WE CAN DO AS A COUNTY TO -- I UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS.

I UNDERSTAND THE MOM AND POP OWNERS.

BUT THESE OTHER COMPANIES THAT ARE COMING IN, THEY'RE NOT PART OF OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS [INDISCERNIBLE].

I LIVE AT 5479 [INDISCERNIBLE] ST. AUGUSTINE.

I ALSO HAVE TREMENDOUS PROBLEMS WITH THE NOISE.

PEOPLE ARE HAVING PARTIES CONSTANTLY.

I DON'T THINK THAT THIS ORDINANCE HAS ANOTHER BITE IN IT TO CONTROL THAT. I'VE TALKED TO THE PEOPLE AND THEY'RE BEING TOLD THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AT THESE HOUSES AS FAR AS HAVING PARTIES, BEING UP ALL NIGHT, MAKING NOISE. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CONTROL.

AND THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT. I MEAN, WHO DO YOU CALL? THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE DOESN'T WANT TO RESPOND TO THESE NOISE COMPLAINTS. THERE SHOULD BE SOMEBODY THAT YOU CAN CONTACT. ANOTHER ISSUE IS A LOT OF THE HOUSES HAVE SEPTIC TANKS. AND THE NUMBER OF OCCUPANTS IN THE HOUSES ARE OVERSTRESSING THE SEPTIC SYSTEMS. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S TWO PEOPLE PER BEDROOM WHEN THEY DO THE SEPTIC SYSTEM.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING ALSO THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IF YOU HAVE 20 PEOPLE IN A HOUSE. THE VESTING OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE -- THE EXISTING PEOPLE DOING IT, THERE SHOULD BE LIKE A TIME LIMIT ON THAT. THAT SHOULDN'T BE A LIFETIME VESTING. IT'S NOT REQUIRING THEM TO EVEN ADHERE TO THESE STANDARDS, MUCH LESS ANY OTHER STANDARDS THAT ARE ENACTED. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING, GENTLEMEN. I'M CHARLES, I LIVE AT 5530 ATLANTIC VIEW. THIS IS THE ANASTASIA HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD. WON'T HAVE BE GRAND CENTRAL FOR THE ABUSE OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH STAFF FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. VERSION 2 IS NOT PERFECT.

WE'RE STILL UNHAPPY WITH THE MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY THAT CAN OCCUR. BUT IT IS A HUGE IMPROVEMENT OVER NOTHING, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW.

THIS IS A GREAT FIRST START AND WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE WORKED WITH MR. CEARLEY FOR A LONG TIME ON THIS IS FAIL TODAY TO NOTE THAT HAS PATTERNED THIS AFTER

[00:45:06]

SO THERE'S PROBABLY ZERO CHANCE GOING FORWARD WE'LL BE ABUSED IN THE COURT SYSTEM. MY NEIGHBORHOOD USUALLY ATTENDS THESE THINGS EN MASSE BUT WE'RE ALL COVID RESPONSIBLE AND I'M THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE TODAY.

WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF US HERE. WE'RE NOT AS HAPPY AS WE WOULD LIKE TO BE ON THIS THING BUT WE ARE HAPPY THAT YOU'RE DOING IT.

VERSION TWO IS GOING TO BE A WINNER.

I'VE HEARD OTHER PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE ADDRESSED IN VERSION TWO ONCE IT'S COMPLECOMPLEMENT -- IMPLEMENTED. LET'S TAKE WHAT WE'VE GOT, MOVE

FORWARD AND BE HAPPY WITH IT. >> SHERRY BADGER, 2772 SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE. I CAN ATTEST, OUR TIME TO CALL THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHEN A TRASH TRUCK IS BEATING THE DUMPSTER NEXT DOOR, IT FALLS UPON DEAF EARS. THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT HAS TO BE THERE TO DO A METER READING. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN THE TRUCKS ARE GOING TO COME. EVERYTHING Y'ALL VOTE ON, Y'ALL NEED TO VOTE LIKE THESE PEOPLE ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS BECAUSE IT DOES AFFECT THEM AND EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION.

IT'S THE LAW OF PHYSICS. AND YOU GENTLEMEN NEED TO START BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE YOUR STAFF ISN'T BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE. THEY CAN HIRE ANY OF THE LOCAL ATTORNEYS AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT COME IN HERE AND PRESENT THIS STUFF TO YOU THAT GOT THEIR LITTLE BUTTERY WAYS WORKING RIGHT THROUGH STAFF, NOT EVEN HAVING A HITCH GETTING THROUGH STAFF. SO Y'ALL REALLY NEED TO ADDRESS THESE PEOPLE'S CONCERNS BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT THERE.

CODE ENFORCEMENT DON'T EVEN ANSWER THE PHONE.

I CHALLENGE Y'ALL, CALL FROM A DIFFERENT PHONE AND YOU TRY TO CALL CODE ENFORCEMENT AND SEE HOW MANY TIMES YOUR PHONE CALL GETS PICKED UP OR HOW LONG YOU'VE GOT TO WAIT FOR A PHONE CALL BACK. THANK YOU.

>> GOOD MORNING, LESLIE SHAPIRO, 4942 ATLANTIC VIEW REPRESENTING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

LIKE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED, I'M KIND OF AT A LOSS WHERE TO BEGIN. YOU GUYS HAVE CLEARLY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM ON OUR STREET.

I LIVE ONE HOUSE AWAY FROM A RENTAL THAT ADVERTISING FOR 22 BUT PARENTHESES THEY ALLOW 24 INCLUDING CHILDREN.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO WAKE UP EVERY DAY AND SEE 12 CARS PARKED NEXT DOOR AND THE NOISE THAT JUST GENERATED FROM EVERYDAY LIFE OF THAT MANY PEOPLE IN A SMALL HOUSE. IT'S A 60-FOOT LOT.

THEY'RE SMALL HOUSES AND THERE ARE 24 PEOPLE.

THE ORDINANCE THAT YOU DRAFTED CAPS AT 16.

AIRBNB I JUST DISCOVERED CAPS AT 16 AND YET THERE'S A LITTLE SECOND PARAGRAPH IN THE VESTING THAT ALLOWS EXISTING -- RENTALS IN EX EXISTENCE PRIOR TO A CERTN DATE.

YOU'RE GOING TO LET OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FLOUNDER.

WE'RE THE ONES THAT HAVE THE PROBLEM.

WE'VE BEEN COMING TO YOU FOR YEARS PLEADING FOR YOU TO HELP US AND THERE'S A CLAUSE THAT LETS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD GO.

YOU CAN'T LOOK THEM UP ON AIRBNB BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LISTED.

BUT THESE OTHER RENTALS HAVE THEIR OWN WEBSITES.

THEY'RE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY'RE AFFECTING US WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS YOU ADMIT, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE WE HAVE THESE PROBLEMS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO JUST CONTINUE AND STAY.

SOMEBODY MENTIONED THAT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO LOOK OUT FOR ALL QUALITY OF LIFE. WHEN WE BOUGHT IN TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE WAS AN ORDINANCE THAT RESTRICTED RENTALS TO THREE UNRELATED PEOPLE.

AND THE SHORT TIME THAT I'VE BEEN LIVING IN MY DREAM NEIGHBORHOOD, MY DREAM HOUSE, THESE RENTALS PURPOSE BUILD TO ACCOMMODATE 22, 24 PEOPLE, AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE TO PROTECT US AND OUR QUALITY OF LIFE. THESE HOUSES WILL BE JUST AS PROFITABLE IF WE CAP AT 16 PEOPLE.

THEY'RE RENTING TO EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE BEFORE THIS.

IT'S NOT LOOKING OUT FOR OUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND OUR PROPERTY VALUES. MY HOUSE IS PROBABLY WORTHLESS NOW BECAUSE IT'S NEXT TO THIS RENTAL HOUSE.

I'VE SEEN FOUR WEDDINGS. I WRITE TO THE OWNER SAYING,

[00:50:01]

SHE SAYS WE'LL LOOK INTO IT. I CALL CODE ENFORCEMENT.

THEY'RE GOING OUT MONDAY MORNING.

THE WEDDING PACKED UP SUNDAY NIGHT AND LEFT, EVERYBODY LEFT.

WE HAVE PICTURES. THEY WON'T ACCEPT PICTURES.

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING TO DO TO HELP PROPERTY OWNERS, PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR YOU, WHO WISHED YOU WELL AND ANYTHING GOOD FOR OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU.

>> THANKS. >> THANK YOU.

VIVIAN BROWNING, 30 BEACH [INDISCERNIBLE] BEACH.

I CAME BEFORE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN 1998 WHEN WE ALL WERE IN THE OTHER BUILDING WHERE THE RECORDS DEPARTMENT IS NOW, AND I ASKED TO BUILD A NEW HOME ON MY 250-FOOT LOT SO THAT I COULD KEEP MY SMALL COTTAGE FOR RENTAL BECAUSE I KNOW AND I'VE BEEN IN REAL ESTATE MY 40TH YEAR IN ADDITION TO EDUCATION, THAT I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A RENTAL TO PAY MY TAXES AND INSURANCE AND UPKEEP TO BE IN THE COASTAL RESORT AREA THAT OUR COUNTY HAS FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. SO I WAS ABLE TO GET VESTED ON THAT AND I DO HAVE A VACATION RENTAL ON MY STREET.

I'M HERE TODAY TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ORDINANCE.

ONE THING, LISTENING TO MY NEIGHBORS AND TO OTHER FOLKS, IS THERE'S REALLY TWO CLASSES OF VACATION RENTAL OWNERS.

THERE'S THOSE OF US WHO SINCE GEORGE WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE HAVE PEOPLE STAY IN OUR HOMES OR NEARBY IN A RENTAL PROPERTY, WHICH THIS IS NOT NEW AND YOU'RE NOT DOING AN ORDINANCE FOR A NEW PHENOMENON. IT'S BEEN HERE SINCE THE COLONIAL PERIOD. AND THEN THERE'S THE MULTI-OWNER OUT-OF-TOWN HIGH-END PEOPLE. WHY NOT HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN TWO TIERS? WHY PUNISH ALL OF US WHO TRY TO OBEY AND DON'T ALLOW PARTIES AND MAKE IT SO PEOPLE CAN SOCIAL DISTANCE? WHEN PEOPLE STAY IN THESE VACATION RENTALS, IT'S LIKE THEY OWN A BEACH HOUSE.

THEY CAN FORGET THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD FOR A WEEK OR A FEW DAYS OR WEEKEND AND BE WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

AND THE BEACH IS OPEN TO EVERYBODY, THANK GOODNESS.

AND THEY CAN ENJOY OUTDOOR RECREATION.

SO THAT'S A COUPLE OF THE QUESTIONS IN MY COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT HERE. ONE, IT SEEMS TO BE COMPLAINT-DRIVEN AND NOT TRYING TO WORK WITH THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROPERTIES, WHAT WOULD BE BEST FOR THEM AND HOW WOULD THEY TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE PROBLEMS. ENFORCEMENT, SOME OF THESE ISSUES CAN BE DEALT WITH ENFORCEMENT.

IN YOUR PACKET IT SAYS HERE THAT THEY MADE THEIR VIOLATION NUMBERS BASED ON GENERAL INFORMATION FOR THE AREA AND NOT ON VACATION RENTALS. I THINK A LOT OF NEIGHBORS BLAME VACATION RENTALS WHEN IT'S LONG-TERM PROPERTY OWNERS WHO ARE PARTY ANIMALS AND LONG-TERM RENTERS.

THE SCOPE OF THE INSPECTION, WE HAVE THE QUIET ENJOYMENT OF OUR PROPERTY IN THE CONSTITUTION. I WANT MORE ON THIS CODE ENFORCEMENT. AND IF YOU CAN DO SAFETY ONE THING, BUT TO -- I'VE TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE FROM THE KEYS.

THEY'VE LOST $40 MILLION IN TAXES AND BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY'VE GONE REAL TOUGH ON VACATION RENTALS.

SO I HOPE YOU'LL HAVE A BALANCED APPROACH.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET WITH JOSEPH CEARLEY AND GET SOME MORE OF THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED SO IT IS NOT JUST COMPLAINT-DRIVEN AND BECAUSE IT'LL -- YOU'LL NEVER -- AS AN EIGHT-YEAR ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE COUNTY, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE COMPLAINTS BUT LET'S BE FAIR TO ALL SIDES. THANK YOU.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> OH MY GOSH, THAT WAS ELOQUENT. I'M UP HERE AS --

>> COULD WE HAVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE?

>> OH, SORRY. CINDY BRUCE AND IT'S 33 HIBISCUS AVENUE. AND I'M GOING THROUGH THIS WITH THE CITY RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, I JUST HAD MY -- WELL, LET ME BACK UP. BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

I HAVE RENTALS, LONG-TERM RENTALS.

WANTED TO TRY SHORT-TERM RENTAL. BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.

IT WAS IN POOR SHAPE. GOT IT ALL UP TO CODE AND UPDATED AND BEAUTIFUL PLACE, BIG LOT, FOUR BEDROOMS, THREE BATHS.

AND A WONDERFUL VACATION RENTAL. AND I'VE BEEN ON AIRBNB AND

[00:55:01]

WE FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES. I HAVE A MINIMUM STAY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART OF HOW I MAKE A LIVING.

AND I'M A LITTLE GUY. I'M ONE OF THOSE LITTLE PEOPLE.

SO I FOLLOW THE RULES. AND I'M SO SORRY PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH OTHER VACATION RENTALS, BUT I THINK THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF US LITTLE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT'S EITHER SUPPLEMENTING OUR INCOME OR DEPEND ON THIS AS A WAY TO PUT FOOD ON OUR TABLES, AND DO GOOD FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

I'VE TAKEN A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT NEEDED LOVE AND ATTENTION AND OPENED MY DOORS TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME IN TO THE COMMUNITY AND ENJOY OUR BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY AND STAY FOR WHATEVER PERIOD OF TIME THEY NEED, ANYWHERE FROM A WEEK TO, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS I'VE RENTED TO PEOPLE OR LONGER.

I'VE RENTED TO PEOPLE WHO ARE MOVING IN TO OUR COMMUNITY AND NEED A NICE PLACE TO STAY. BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO STAY THERE FOR A YEAR. THEY DON'T NEED A YEAR COMMITMENT, A LONG-TERM RENTAL. AND MY REVIEWS ARE WONDERFUL BECAUSE I TAKE CARE OF THE PLACE.

I ENJOY OFFERING UP MY HOME AND ENJOY THE FACT THAT OTHER PEOPLE CAN ENJOY IT. AND I THINK WHAT YOU HEAR ARE A LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE LIKE THIS NICE LADY SAID, THAT MAYBE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT COME FROM ANOTHER STATE, OWN PROPERTY, AND THEY'RE PARTYING WHILE THEY'RE HERE OR MAYBE THEY'RE SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT AREN'T MANAGED WELL.

BUT I THINK THAT WHAT YOU HEAR IS FEWER THAN WHAT'S HAPPENING.

YOU HEAR THE COMPLAINTS. YOU DON'T SEE US LITTLE GUYS.

AND ALL WE NEED IS MORE RESTRICTIONS, MORE RESTRICTIONS TO SQUELCH US AS A SMALL BUSINESS.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WENT THROUGH IT WITH DOWNTOWN ST. AUGUSTINE.

AND IT WAS RIDICULOUS. IT WAS RIDICULOUS.

THESE ARE HOMES. THESE ARE PEOPLE'S HOMES THAT THEY CARE ABOUT AND OWN.

>> THANK YOU. >> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FLOOR PLAN. WELL, HELL, IF THEY CAN'T SEE WHERE THE WINDOW IS OR SLIDING DOOR IS, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FIND IT ON THE ESCAPE ROUTE ON THE WALL.

IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> GOOD MORNING.

>> CHRISTINA CANDLER, 140 [INDISCERNIBLE] DRIVE.

FIRST, COMMISSIONER WALDRON, WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO HAVE YOU BACK. I KNOW YOU WERE COVERED UP IN A LOT OF PRAYERS AND WELL WISHES, SO WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE YOU HERE

TODAY. >> THANK YOU.

>> THAT BEING SAID, I'M A PROPERTY MANAGER, A GENERAL MANAGER FOR A LOCAL COMPANY. WE MANAGE OVER 100 HOMES FROM AMELIA ISLAND ALL THE WAY DOWN TO FLAGLER BEACH.

I'M FAMILIAR WITH A LOT OF THE REGISTRATION THAT Y'ALL WERE LOOKING AT WHEN PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.

I'M ALSO THE NORTHEAST CHAPTER CHAIR FOR FLORIDA VACATION RENTAL MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION AND SIT ON THEIR GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AND LEGISLATIVE BOARD AS WELL.

I'VE SEEN A LOT OF POORLY WRITTEN REGISTRATION PROCESSES.

I KNOW YOUR STAFF WAS GIVEN THE UNENVIABLE TASK OF TRYING TO MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY, WHICH WE KNOW CAN NEVER BE DONE, BUT I THINK Y'ALL HAVE PUT TOGETHER A REALLY GOOD SET OF PLANS THAT PROBABLY WON'T FACE A LOT OF LEGAL CHALLENGES LIKE WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

MY FEEDBACK, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS, THE FIRST IS JUST MAKING SURE THAT BEFORE IT'S ROLLED OUT, UNLIKE IN CITY OF ST.

AUGUSTINE WHERE THERE'S STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS, I FEEL TERRIBLE FOR THE CITY STAFF. THEY ARE BEING INUNDATED WITH QUESTIONS. SO JUST MAKING SURE THAT EVENTUALITIES, SMALL DETAILS ARE IRONED OUT.

THEY WERE TOLD YOU HAVE TO HAVE PARKING IF YOU CAN'T GET IT, WHICH CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE IS HARD.

YOU CAN GET IT FROM THE PARKING GARAGE.

AND THEY WERE INUNDATED WITH PHONE CALLS OF HOW TO GET INTO THE GARAGE. AND, "I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL GET BACK WITH YOU NEXT WEEK." JUST MAKING SURE YOUR STAFF CAN ACCOMMODATE THE QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THINKING AHEAD AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN BECAUSE THAT WAS A PROBLEM THAT STAFF DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

THE INSPECTION PROCESS, HALFWAY THROUGH THERE WAS A CHANGE FROM THE FIRE MARSHAL OF WHAT WAS ALLOWED OR NOT ALLOWED BECAUSE IT WAS TOO DIFFICULT TO MEET. THEY HAD TO COME BACK.

AFTER SOME FOLKS OPENED UP HOLES IN THE WALL AND PUT IN HARD WIRING, THEY SAID, "OKAY, USE PLUG IN." JUST MAKING SURE THINGS ARE BUTTONED UP.

[01:00:01]

A LOT OF MY OWNERS ARE PEOPLE WHO PLAN TO RETIRE HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE TRIED TAKING STICKERS OFF OF CARS, BUT I'M SURE IT'S JUST AS MUCH FUN TO TAKE THEM OFF OF HOUSES.

MOST COUNTIES AND MUNICIPALITIES ASK YOU TO DO FRAMED INSIDE THE HOME SO WHEN IT CONVERTS TO OWNER OCCUPIED IT'S EASIER.

IT'S YOUR RECEIPT OR REGISTRATION IS FRAMED INSIDE THE PROPERTY. IT HAS TO BE IN A CONSPICUOUS AREA IN THE FRONT DOOR AREA WHEN YOU GO IN.

THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD COMPROMISE TO THAT SO YOU CAN HAVE THE INFORMATION. A LOT OF FOLKS ARE CONCERNED PUTTING OUT THERE THAT THIS IS A HOME THAT MAY BE OCCUPIED OR NOT OCCUPIED AND LEAVING IT OPEN TO THIEVES.

THANK YOU ALL AND THANK YOU FOR PUTTING TOGETHER A GOOD PLAN.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> JAN, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT THE PROPERTY THERE THIS YEAR AND MY HUSBAND AND I SPENT OUR COVID TIME RENOVATING IT.

IT'S A DUPLEX, SO WE HAVE A LONG-TERM RENTER DOWNSTAIRS AND A STUDIO APARTMENT THAT WE ARE DOING AIRBNB.

AND I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA THAT COULD WE LOOK AT HAVING TWO TIERS. I'M SUFFERING HEARING THESE PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS WITH 20 PEOPLE IN THERE.

MY PLACE IS HOLDING A COUPLE THAT ARE JUST GETTING AWAY FOR A WEEKEND. AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING IS ENFORCING ME TO HAVE VISITORS FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK IN A STUDIO APARTMENT IS NOT -- IT'S SMALL. I DON'T HAVE AN OVEN.

I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO GO ENJOY DOWNTOWN, GO WALK TO DINNER, WALK TO BREAKFAST. THAT'S WHAT I -- THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. BUT IF THEY'VE GOT TO BE THERE FOR A WHOLE WEEK, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- THAT'S HARD.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T COME TO DOWNTOWN ST. AUGUSTINE FOR A WHOLE WEEK. SO I JUST WOULD ASK THAT AS SOMEONE ELSE SUGGESTED, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS IN TIERS OF WHAT KIND OF -- I LIVE HERE. I LIVE TWO DOORS DOWN FROM THAT PROPERTY. SO I CAN BE THERE AND I'M THERE IN A SECOND TO ADDRESS ANYTHING THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT HAVE.

BUT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, IF WE COULD BREAK UP A LOCAL, SOMEONE JUST MAKING SOME EXTRA REVENUE AND I'M WATCHING IT, WATCHFUL AT ALL TIMES OF IT VERSUS COMPANIES THAT ARE BUYING A HOUSE, TURNING IT INTO THAT, THAT NIGHTMARE. I WOULD HATE TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO THAT FOR SURE. THAT'S IT, THANK YOU.

>> GOOD MORNING. I'M MARCO.

I'M WITH SAND CASTLE PROPERTIES. WE ARE A VACATION RENTAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT FIRM AND MANAGE MULTIPLE PROPERTIES FROM JACKSONVILLE BEACH DOWN THROUGH ST. AUGUSTINE.

WE CERTAINLY SUPPORT THE PROCESS THAT THE COUNTY IS GOING THROUGH. WE CERTAINLY AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT YOU WANT TO CURTAIL THIS ADVERSE BEHAVIOR BECAUSE I THINK ALL OF US THAT ARE IN THIS BUSINESS, WE WANT TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. WE WANT TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE FOLKS THAT LIVE AROUND THESE PROPERTIES.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, THE OBJECTIVE THAT I KEEP HEARING HERE IS THE FACT THAT YOU WANT THESE VACATION RENTALS TO BLEND IN WITH THE CURRENT COMMUNITY THAT IT'S IN.

YOU DON'T WANT IT TO STAND OUT. YOU DON'T WANT IT TO TURN AROUND AND BE THAT EYESORE, THAT SORE THUMB IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YOU WANT THEM TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS.

SO WE CERTAINLY SUPPORT THE EFFORTS THAT YOU'RE MAKING TO KIND OF CONTROL THOSE BEHAVIORS, LIMITING THE OCCUPANCIES AND THE PARKING AND SUCH. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DO ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE COMPLY, IS LET'S NOT MAKE THE PROCESS OF APPLICATION TOO ONEROUS WHERE WE ARE PROVIDING SITE PLANS AND THINGS OF THIS NATURE, WHICH I DON'T KNOW WHAT PURPOSE THAT TRULY SERVES, BUT YET IT'S ONEROUS ON OWNERS AS WELL AS PROPERTY MANAGERS THAT HAVE TO PUT THESE THINGS TOGETHER AND BE ABLE TO FILE THOSE TYPES OF ISSUES YEAR AFTER YEAR. SO I THINK THAT WE WANT TO -- AND WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE COMPLIANCE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GETTING THE TOURIST DEVELOPMENT TAXES, THAT YOU'RE PROMOTING SOMETHING GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK VACATION RENTALS DO THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE PROVIDE, WHERE THE BULK OF OUR HOMES ARE LOCATED, WE HAVE A LOT OF PATIENTS WHO COME IN FOR TREATMENT OF MAYO, A LOT OF FOLKS COME IN RELOCATING TO THE

[01:05:03]

DURING THE FIRST PART OF THIS PANDEMIC, WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO CAME DOWN FOR TWO, THREE, FOUR MONTHS AT A TIME TO TRY TO GET AWAY FROM ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE GOING ON UP NORTH.

AND WE'RE STILL SEEING A LOT OF THAT NOW.

BUT THEY'RE COMING IN FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME.

THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S A HUGE ECONOMIC BOOST. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THINGS THAT TURN AROUND AND DAMAGE THAT FAR OUR COMMUNITIES, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I CERTAINLY AGREE THAT WE WANT TO PUT REGULATIONS IN PLACE TO CONTROL THE BAD BEHAVIORS THAT ARE CREATING NUISANCES FOR OUR NEIGHBORS. NONE OF US WANT THAT.

AND SO I JUST ENCOURAGE THAT THE APPLICATION PROCESS AND THE PROCESS OF REGULATION IS EASY TO COMPLY WITH.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

TOM, 4TH STREET, ACTUALLY A NEIGHBOR OF PAUL'S.

HE SPOKE EARLIER. THAT WAS A STRANGE CHARACTERIZATION WE JUST HEARD WHERE IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING DOWN FROM THE PANDEMIC AREAS TO SPEND THEIR TIME HERE. I LIVE BASICALLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM ONE OF THESE SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE DOWN THE STREET FROM ME BUT IT'S OWNER-OCCUPIED, RUN WELL, QUIET, SO FORTH.

THE ONE ACROSS THE STREET IS ANOTHER STORY ENTIRELY.

I PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO CITE PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH IT.

IT'S BAD. LOTS OF PARTIES.

IT'S NOISY. THEY DON'T CARE.

EVERY WEEKEND IT'S SOMEONE NEW. CARS PARKED ALL OVER THE STREET, WHICH BY THE WAY, YOUR ITEM IN THE ORDINANCE THAT IS SPECIFYING SO MANY PARKING SPACES PER SO MANY PEOPLE DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE ANY TEETH BECAUSE YOU THEN GO ON TO SAY THAT PARKING ON THE STREET WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE LOCAL ORDINANCE.

SO IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF FOLKS THERE WITH ALL -- IF THERE'S ONE CAR PER PERSON AND YOU SAY THERE CAN BE 16 PEOPLE THERE, WE COULD HAVE CARS PARKED EVERYWHERE, WHICH IS NOT A GREAT THING. BUT THERE'S FIREWORKS, DRINKING, PARTYING. NO IDEA WHO TO CALL.

I CALLED THE SHERIFF ONCE. I THINK PAUL'S DONE IT ONCE OR TWICE. AND NOTHING HAPPENS REALLY.

THERE'S NO PENALTY TO THE OWNER IT SEEMS. THEY DON'T CARE. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THESE PROPERTY MANAGERS SAY, THEY DON'T CARE.

THEY'RE RUNNING A BUSINESS. IT'S FOR PROFIT.

AND THAT'S IT. IT'S MONEY.

AND THEY'RE DESTROYING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

THEY REALLY ARE. THE WHOLE CHARACTER OF THE PLACE HAS CHANGED. IT'S TERRIBLE.

AND IT HAS TO STOP. THIS IS A GREAT FIRST STEP, BUT IT CAN'T STOP HERE. YOU'VE GOT TO GO FURTHER, A LOT FURTHER. THE MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY IS TOO HIGH. 16 PEOPLE IS CRAZY.

THE PLACE ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME IS A THREE-BEDROOM HOME ON SEPTIC AND THEY ADVERTISE 14 PEOPLE.

IT SLEEPS 14. THAT'S WHAT THEY ADVERTISE.

THIS IS NUTS. I DON'T KNOW.

[LAUGHS] I'M LOSING MY MIND WITH THIS THING. HONESTLY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE FOLKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS COULD PROBABLY CONSIDER IS CIVIL SUITS AGAINST THESE PLACES FOR D DIMUNITION OF VALUE OF THEIR HOMES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

IT'S A GOOD FIRST STEP, BUT WE'VE GOT TO TAKE THIS A LOT FURTHER. WE'VE GOT TO STOP IT.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

>> WE'VE GOT TWO PHONE CALLS. GOOD MORNING, PLEASE STATE YOUR

NAME AND ADDRESS. >> GOOD MORNING, THIS IS SANDRA MARVIN, 5340 RIVER VIEW DRIVE, ST. AUGUSTINE.

>> OKAY.MA'AM, PLEASE GO AHEAD.- MY PROPERTY IS ON BUTLER BEACH.

WE'VE OWNED IT FOR 32 YEARS. WE'VE LIVED IN IT MOST OF THAT TIME, LONG-TERM RENTED IT FOR 10, SHORT-TERM RENTED IT THE PAST TWO AND A HALF. THE LONG-TERM TENANTS BECAME TERRIBLE. I KNOW HOW TO VET.

I'VE HAD MULTIPLE RENTAL PROPERTIES.

IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, PEOPLE DESTROY AND PARTY AND YOU CAN'T GET THEM OUT. THE EVICTIONS HAVE GOTTEN WORSE AND WORSE. AND SO I CONVERTED TO SHORT-TERM RENTAL AT MANY YEARS OF THINKING ABOUT IT AND IT'S BEEN GREAT OVERALL. WE LIVED IN -- BUILT A HOUSE ON ATLANTIC VIEW. I GET IT.

I UNDERSTAND. WE HAD A BIG RENTAL PROPERTY NEXT TO US WITH NIGHTMARISH PARTIES.

[01:10:02]

YOU COULDN'T CALL ANYBODY. YOU COULDN'T GET ANYBODY TO COME OUT AND MANAGE IT AND SHUT DOWN THE PARTIES.

I GET IT. BUT I AM MY OWN SELF-MANAGEMENT COMPANY. I DID HAVE A RENTAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY THAT DID A HORRIBLE JOB FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND I FIRED THEM. SO I AM VERY COGNIZANT OF WHAT IT DOES TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO THERE ARE THOSE OF US THAT DO MANAGE IT PROPERLY. I HAVE CAMERAS.

I LIVE CLOSE BY. I SHUT DOWN ANY PROBLEMS. I HAVE NO PARTIES, NO EVENTS. AND I CONSEQUENTLY HAVE ALMOST 50 FIVE-STAR REVIEWS. BUT NOT EVERYBODY'S LIKE THAT.

I GET IT. THESE BIG COMPANIES THAT ARE BUYING UP THESE HOMES AND DON'T MANAGE THEM PROPERLY.

SO THERE HAS TO BE SOME BALANCE BETWEEN THE RENTAL OWNERS THAT DON'T DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO AND THOSE THAT DO.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO COMMENT ON IS ONE OF YOUR REQUIREMENTS IS THE CONTRACTS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO GET TENANTS TO SIGN. I WORK PRIMARILY THROUGH AIRBNB, SOME VRBO, AND NOBODY WANTS TO SIGN ANYTHING.

AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THEM A CONTRACT, GET IT BACK.

AND I HAVE DONE THAT. AND AIRBNB WON'T ALLOW YOU TO COLLECT THEIR IDS ANYMORE. SO THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS GARBAGE CAN. I DO ALL MY OWN, BUT SOMETIMES IF I'M OUT OF TOWN MYSELF, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE LEEWAY IN THAT TIME IN PULLING THEM IN. BUT I'VE NEVER HAD THEM SIT MORE THAN 24 HOURS MYSELF, BUT SOMETIMES THAT'S DIFFICULT.

I DO WANT A DEFINITION OF WHAT WEST OF INNER COASTAL EXCLUSION MEANS AND ALSO MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE INSPECTIONS AND WHAT THOSE REQUIRE. AND ALSO IS THERE GOING TO BE A SEVEN-DAY MINIMUM LIKE DOWNTOWN? I REQUIRE A THREE-DAY MINIMUM.

I RARELY HAVE SEVEN-DAY TENANTS. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

PAUL, WELCOME BACK. WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU.

SO HAPPY TO SEE YOU'RE DOING WELL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE. >> GOOD MORNING, PLEASE STATE

YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> HUGH, 6857 EAST [INDISCERNIBLE] AVENUE. CAN YOU HEAR ME?

>> YES, SIR, PLEASE, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

>> GOOD, THANK YOU. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF [INDISCERNIBLE] COMMUNITIES ASSOCIATION.

AND [INDISCERNIBLE] SUPPORTS THIS.

IT IS CLEARLY AFFECTING THE RURAL BEACH NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE WORK TO PROTECT. AND THE WHOLE THING IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL ALL THE SUDDEN WHEN YOU HAVE -- IF YOU WERE TO SAY SOMEONE WILL BUILD 7 BEDROOMS TO RENT, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE BUILDING A HOTEL. IF YOU WERE TO BUILD A HOTEL, YOU WOULD NEED TO SHOW ANOTHER PARKING FOR THE HOTEL TO HAVE ON-STREET PARKING AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS A FUNNY LINE BETWEEN THE ZONINGS THAT YOU ARE KIND OF COMMERCIAL IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. AN INSPECTION IS NEEDED OF COMMERCIAL PLACES. I THINK AN INSPECTION SHOULD BE USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PLACES USED AS A COMMERCIAL PLACE.

THIS ORDINANCE IS PRETTY CONSERVATIVE AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT HURTS THE LITTLE GUYS, THE MOM AND POPS, BECAUSE THEY CAN STILL RENT IT OUT, GET THEIR SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME, THEY CAN STILL DO WHAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING.

THEY JUST HAVE TO REGISTER AND PAY A VERY NOMINAL FEE EVERY YEAR AND BE INSPECTED. I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WITH CONCERN ABOUT LOSING THE SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME, THE PEOPLE DOING IT RIGHT IN OUR COMMUNITY. THOSE ARE IMPORTANT BUT THIS ISN'T STOPPING THAT FROM HAPPENING.

ENFORCEMENT IS TRICKY BECAUSE LET'S SAY IT GOES INTO PLACE AND THERE'S MORE THAN 16 PEOPLE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT AND IT'S STILL GOING TO BE HARD TO CALL AND FIND OUT, WE'LL MAKE THAT HAPPEN WHEN CODE ENFORCEMENT COMES ON MONDAY, THOSE 22 PEOPLE MAY BE GONE. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET AN ORDINANCE PERFECT ON THE FIRST TRY.

THIS ORDINANCE IS NOT PERFECT BUT IT'S A REALLY GOOD START.

AND WE SUPPORT THIS AND REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS HEARING THIS WHOLE THING AND I THINK WE MOVE FORWARD WITH IT AND LET US KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO HELP.

THANK YOU GUYS. >> THANK YOU, MR. BURNS.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS? PLEASE COME ON FORWARD.

GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

MY NAME IS FRED HARRIS. I'M AT 829 KINGS ESTATE ROAD.

I DO RUN AN AIRBNB. I'M FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ON A

[01:15:01]

AGAIN, WE LIVE IN OURS. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I BELIEVE OUR GUESTS, WHERE THEY MAY WANT TO DO SOMETHING, DON'T DO IT BECAUSE WE'RE THERE. PROPERTY MANAGERS, AS HARD AS THEY CAN TRY, POLICE AND SHERIFF DEPARTMENTS, CODE ENFORCEMENTS, IF THERE'S NOBODY THERE TO KEEP THE GUESTS AND THE GUEST RESIDENTS UNDER CONTROL, THEY'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF WHACK.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A PARTY, GET LOUD, AND GET NOISY.

I SUPPORT THE ORDINANCE EVEN IF IT WAS WEST OF THE INNER COASTAL. I THINK HAVING LIVED IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO TOWN, IF THE 12 HOUSES ON MY BLOCK, AND WE WERE ALL GOOD NEIGHBORS, ALL OF THE SUDDEN BECAME FOUR RESIDENTS AND EIGHT UNCONTROLLED RENTALS SHORT-TERM, MEDIUM-TERM, HAD RESULTED IN WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM THE PEOPLE HERE TODAY AND FOR ALL THE OTHER MEETINGS, I WOULD FORBID IT. I UNDERSTAND YOU CANNOT DO THAT.

I UNDERSTAND FLORIDA'S LAW. BUT IF YOU'RE A RESIDENTIAL AREA, HOW DO YOU PERMIT A BUSINESS? IF IT'S ZONED RESIDENTIAL AND THERE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BUSINESS RUN OUT OF RESIDENTIAL AREAS, THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED RESIDENTIAL AREAS. IF YOU LIVE IN THAT RESIDENCE AND YOU WANT TO RENT A ROOM OR YOU HAVE A SMALL APARTMENT, GARAGE APARTMENT ATTACHED TO YOUR HOUSE AND YOU WANT TO RENT THAT, YOU LIVE THERE, THAT'S MIXED USE.

MY MIXED USE JUST COST ME ABOUT $1800 IN PROPERTY TAXES BECAUSE THE PROPERTY APPRAISER SAID, "OH, YOU'RE USING 1800 SQUARE FEET OF YOUR 5,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME FOR RENTAL.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION." SO WE TRY. WE KEEP IT UNDER CONTROL.

WE GET TAGGED UNTIL THE TAXES. WE GET TAGGED ON TRASH PICKUP.

THERE WAS MORE, BUT IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW HOW TO GET A HOLD OF ME. THANK YOU AND WELCOME BACK.

>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS?

GOOD MORNING. >> THREE MINUTES.

BJ KALEDI, WEST CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

I'M SO GLAD ALL OF THESE PEOPLE SHOWED UP.

WE OUGHT TO HAVE MORE PEOPLE HERE EVERY DAY WHENEVER YOU HAVE A MEETING. THEY ONLY COME FOR CERTAIN THINGS, WHICH IS OKAY. JUST AS AN FYI, IF YOU HAVEN'T HEARD, THE CITY IS BEING SUED ABOUT WHAT THEY PUT INTO FORCE.

ALSO, THE CITY HAS HAD TO HIRE THREE PEOPLE TO ENFORCE THE RENTAL, SHORT-TERM RENTAL. SO THERE GOES THAT $730,000 GOING BACK TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE.

THIS WHOLE THING BOILS DOWN TO TWO THINGS BASICALLY, SELFISH INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THEIR NEIGHBORS.

THE MAN SAID IT VERY CLEARLY, IT'S RESIDENTIAL, NOT COMMERCIAL. YOU WANT TO MAKE EXTRA MONEY.

I HAVE A TWO-BEDROOM HOME, ONE BATH, NO SEPTIC, THANK GOODNESS.

AND I COULD USE A LOT MORE MONEY.

ANY OF YOU WANT TO GIVE ME SOME, I'LL TAKE IT.

I'LL NEVER REFUSE IT. BUT I AM IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA.

AND IF YOU WANT TO RENT YOUR HOUSE OUT AND YOU DON'T LIVE THERE, OKAY. BUT IT'S A RESIDENTIAL.

OUR RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE BEING DESTROYED BY DECISIONS OF DEVELOPERS AND UNFORTUNATELY THIS SHORT-TERM RENTAL THING.

AND THE THING IS THEY CAN ALL LIVE IN A HOTEL OR GO IN AN RV PARK. SO WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR THE ENFORCEMENT? THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY ENFORCEMENT. THERE'S NO WAY THIS COUNTY CAN ENFORCE THIS ORDINANCE HOWEVER YOU WRITE IT.

IT'S A FACT. BUT WE'RE GOING TO STRUGGLE

[01:20:01]

BUT YOU TRY TO KEEP YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD A NEIGHBORHOOD, A RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL. AND THEN YOU ASK FOR THE ENFORCEMENT AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY STAFF OR THEY'RE NOT AVAILABLE AND YOU GET WHAT YOU GET.

YOU DON'T GET THE QUALITY OF LIFE.

AND HAVING IT TO THE EAST, WE KNOW THE EAST AND DOWNTOWN, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TOURISTS. FINE, THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE HERE FROM UP NORTH. THAT'S GREAT.

EVERYBODY IS COMING, EVEN BEFORE THE EPIDEMIC.

SO WE CAN'T SUPPLY ALL OF THESE THINGS.

IF YOU GO AHEAD WITH THIS VERSION 2, IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU WOULD HAVE TO HIRE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORHOODS NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE LIKE PEOPLE HAVE MOVED HERE BACK IN THE YEARS AND HAVE GONE BY THE RULES AND LIVED ON NOTHING BUT WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE IT.

>> ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? SEEING NONE, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 1.

>> OKAY. TO THE STAFF, I'M NOT SURE THAT MY SPEAKER LIST HERE IS OPERATIONAL.

I JUST GET THE LANDSCAPE VIEW, BUT NEVERTHELESS, HAVING SAID THAT, I'M TURNING TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OF STAFF AT THIS TIME.

I'LL START WITH CHRISTIAN. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS TO STAFF AS WE GO FORWARD?

PAUL? >> I DID HAVE.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SOME PEOPLE CONFUSED BETWEEN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE'S ORDINANCE AND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO.

WE DON'T HAVE A ONE-WEEK LIMITATION IN OUR ORDINANCE AT

ALL. >> NOT HOW IT'S DRAFTED, NO.

>> AND THEN THE VESTING IS JUST FOR EXISTING CONTRACTS.

>> EXACTLY. >> NOT FOR ALREADY WHAT THEY

HAVE -- >> NO, IT'S FOR THE RENTAL

AGREEMENTS THEMSELVES. >> AND THEN THE INSPECTIONS, THERE'S SOME CHANGES I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, LIKE ON THE PHONE CALLS, I THINK IT COULD BE OUT OF TOWN PEOPLE WE CALL. THEY SAID IT HAD TO BE LOCAL BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS LATER WITH THE BOARD.

IF THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY IS OUT OF TOWN, THEY SHOULD BE CALLED OR THE OWNERS SHOULD BE CALLED. THE PARTIES, THE SEPTIC SYSTEMS IS SOMETHING I THINK E NEED TO ADDRESS.

>> I WROTE THAT DOWN. >> SEPTIC TANKS ARE A STATE ISSUE, SO THAT'S ALWAYS HARD TO ENFORCE THAT AT ALL.

OKAY. I HAD A QUESTION ON THE INITIAL INSPECTIONS. WHAT ARE THEY INSPECTING?

>> TYPICALLY WHAT THEY WOULD DO -- AND I REACHED OUT TO FLAGLER, WE DID MODEL THIS ORDINANCE AFTER THE FLAGLER ORDINANCE AND REMOVED OFF PROHIBITIVE LANGUAGE.

ESSENTIALLY IF SOMEONE CAME OUT FOR AN INSPECTION, THEY WOULD LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, PROBABLY THE NUMBER OF ROOMS, IF THERE WERE TRASH CANS, IF THE CERTIFICATE WAS IN A GOOD PLACE IN THE HOUSE, THE HURRICANE EVACUATION ROUTES ARE

-- >> I HAVE TO AGREE.

THE STICKER SHOULD HAVE A FLOOR PLAN ON THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE, NOT THE OUTSIDE. I DO NOT LIKE [INDISCERNIBLE] OR ANYTHING. I'M AGGRAVATED WITH THE FIRE THING. I HAVE A SIGN ON THE OUTSIDE OF MY BUSINESS SAYING WHAT RAFTERS ARE [INDISCERNIBLE] I GUESS.

I DON'T KNOW. >> AND WE GOT IN THIS DISCUSSION AT THE LAST COMMUNITY MEETING. WE ASKED TO HANG A PLAQUE ON THE OUTSIDE. WE DON'T KNOW THE ABSOLUTE CORRECT WAY TO DO THIS AND I IMAGINE WE'LL BE TWEAKING THIS

LANGUAGE. >> MR. VICE CHAIR, IF I MAY JUST COMMENT ON COMMISSIONER WALDRON'S QUESTION, THE ISSUE ABOUT THE DURATION OF RENTAL, ST. JOHNS COUNTY HAS, I BELIEVE, FLAGLER COUNTY WOULD BE PROHIBITIVE IN HAVING A MINIMUM NUMBER OF DAYS, SAY SEVEN DAYS OR FIVE DAYS.

THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND SOME OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE PERMITTED TO DO THAT BECAUSE THEY HAD REGULATIONS IN PLACE.

I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2011 OR PRIOR.

BUT ST. JOHNS COUNTY, I DON'T THINK FLAGLER COUNTY AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAD THAT. SO THANK YOU.

>> I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS WE'RE NOT -- THE CITY HAS THEIR OWN ORDINANCE. WE'RE WORKING ON OURS AFTER WE

[01:25:05]

GET IT APPROVED. >> MR. VICE CHAIR, IF I COULD ASK FOR SOME CLARIFICATION AS WELL.

>> SURE. >> I HEARD COMMISSIONER WALDRON'S REQUEST REGARDING THE STICKER BEING PLACED INSIDE.

JUST FOR OUR STAFF'S CLARIFICATION AS WE PROCEED IS THAT THE CONSENSUS DIRECTION OF THE BOARD SO WE KNOW WHETHER WE SHOULD REVISE OR AMEND THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT LANGUAGE.

I WOULD SAY THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, LIKE A NORMAL BUSINESS WOULD, YOU KNOW, CONSPICUOUSLY PROVIDE THEIR LICENSE.

>> ON THE INSIDE? >> ON THE INSIDE OF THE

RESIDENCE, YES. >> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, PAUL'S SUGGESTION. I THINK THAT'S CONSENSUS OR DO

YOU WANT TO PLAY IN? >> I'M FINE.

I KNOW THERE'S BENEFITS TO HAVING IT OUTSIDE AS WELL AS INSIDE BUT THERE'S NEGATIVES TO PROPERTY OWNERS HAVING IT INSIDE. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING.

IT'S NOT OCCUPIED ALL THE TIME. >> YEAH, AND THEY COULD BE TARGETED MORE FOR THEFT AND STEALING, DAMAGE.

THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT RIGHT NOW. >> MR. VICE CHAIR, I'LL JUST NOTE THAT THERE IS CURRENTLY IN THE LANGUAGE REQUIRED INFORMATION THAT HAS TO BE POSTED INSIDE FOR REFERENCE OF THE TENANTS AND THEN THERE IS THE STICKER THAT'S POSTED ON THE OUTSIDE, AS COMMISSIONER NOTES, FOR REFERENCE OF THE PUBLIC OR CODE ENFORCEMENT OR -- AND THAT'S MORE LIMITED INFORMATION.

IT JUST INCLUDES THE PROPERTY OWNER OR MANAGER CONTACT INFO, THE CERTIFIATE NUMBER, THE MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY, AND THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF VEHICLES. THAT WOULD BE THE INFORMATION POSTED. BUT I UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER WALDRON'S CONCERN. BUT JOE AND I WILL WORK ON THIS AS WE MOVE AHEAD AND CRAFT SOME LANGUAGE THAT I THINK REFLECTS THE BOARD'S VIEW ON THIS. THANK YOU.

>> JUST ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST FROM STAFF IS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF COST IN REGARD TO IMPLEMENTING THIS, WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST US FOR ENFORCEMENT, THE OVERALL OVERSIGHT OF THIS PARTICULAR DIRECTIVE, AND ALSO HOW THE REVENUE SIDE, YOU HAVE IT HERE THAT ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS IS FEES. FEES CAN BE AN IMPEDIMENT TO BUSINESSES BUT ALSO CAN BE A HELP TO DEFER OR MITIGATE THE COST OF IT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A VERY CLEAR COST ANALYSIS OF WHAT THIS WILL COST AND THE BENEFIT THAT COMES FROM IT, WHERE ARE THOSE REVENUES AND WHAT YOU SEE IN REGARD TO OTHER COUNTIES OR OTHER MUNICIPALITIES AND THEIR FEE STRUCTURES I THINK NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED AS WE GO FORWARD, IF WE GO FORWARD AS A VOTE OF THE BOARD.

>> OKAY. >> I HAVE ONE MORE.

>> YEAH, SORRY. >> KIND OF ON THE COST ANALYSIS TOO. WE'RE GOING TO PROBABLY HAVE TO LOOK AT HAVING A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WORK ON THE WEEKENDS OR BEING ON CALL BECAUSE THOSE SITUATIONS ARISE ON THE WEEKENDS, HOLIDAYS. I KNOW LIKE OUR UTILITY DEPARTMENT HAS PEOPLE ON CALL 24 HOURS, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

BUT YOU HAVE TO GET WITH RODERICK AND HOWARD AND SEE WHAT THAT COST WOULD BE BECAUSE TO PROPERLY ENFORCE IT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT. AND WE CAN GET WITH THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT TOO AND MAKE SURE ON THE NOISE ORDINANCE SIDE. THE PARTIES AND WEDDINGS, THE SITUATIONS HAPPENING WHEN YOU'RE HAVING HUGE PARTIES, IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND CODE ENFORCEMENT TO BE THERE ON THE WEEKENDS BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN IT HAPPENS.

I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE WON'T HAVE A WEDDING ON TUESDAY AT 9:00 AM

WHEN EVERYBODY'S WORKING. >> AND COMMISSIONER WALDRON, IF I MAY, ONE OF THE THINGS TO CONSIDER AS WELL IS THE INITIAL INSPECTION AND ANNUAL INSPECTIONS THAT'S GOING TO PLACE A BURDEN ON THE CODE ENFORCEMENT STAFF AS WELL.

LIKE I SAID, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY APPLICATIONS WE'LL RECEIVE

>> >> I THINK INSPECTIONS WILL OPEN A CAN OF WORMS. YOU'LL GO IN FROM AND FIND WALLS BUILT OR EXTRA ROOMS BUILT INTO HOUSES AND THAT'S GOING TO BE AN

ISSUE WE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH. >> MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD ADDRESS MR. WALDRON'S COMMENTS AS WELL, ONE ADDITIONAL PROVISION THAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THIS DRAFT ALLOWS THE COUNTY TO PREPARE A REGISTRY SORT OF SIMILAR TO OUR FORECLOSED PROPERTY REGISTRY AND WOULD ALLOW THE COUNTY TO CONTRACT WITH A THIRD-PARTY VENDOR TO RUN THE APPLICATION INTAKE AND ASSEMBLE THAT REGISTRY. THAT'S SOMETHING JOE NOTED IN

[01:30:02]

AND JOE NOTED THE INSPECTION ISSUE AS WELL.

I BELIEVE CODE ENFORCEMENT DOES HAVE AN ON-CALL WEEKEND OFFICER BUT I BELIEVE IT'S ONE OFFICER. AS YOU INDICATED, IF WE HAVE MANY COMPLAINTS, THEY ARE LIMITED IN THEIR ABILITY TO ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE ON A PARTICULAR DAY.

THANK YOU. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IN A

COST ANALYSIS WE HAVE THIS. >> EXACTLY.

>> YOU'RE BRINGING ON A WHOLE NEW THING THAT HAS TO BE

INSPECTED. >> EXACTLY RIGHT, THANK YOU.

>> OKAY, MY ONLY QUESTION, JOE, IS I WANT TO SHOTGUN SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND THE VESTING ISSUE. I KNOW YOU AND PAUL DISCUSSED IT, BUT MY -- I HAVE A VERY NARROW INTERPRETATION AND IT'S THIS, THAT IF AN OWNER, WHETHER IT'S AIRBNB OR WHETHER IT'S A SINGLE HOMEOWNER HERE ON ANASTASIA ISLAND, IF THEY HAVE A WRITTEN CONTRACT SIGNED WITH A LESSEE PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY NEW RULE, THEN THEY ARE VESTED, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, AND THE OLD RULE APPLIES TO THAT LEASE BECAUSE IT WAS SIGNED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE, BUT AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY NEW RULE, NO ONE WOULD BE VESTED IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT LEASE SIGNED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE?

>> THAT IS CORRECT. >> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL ARE OPERATING ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.

>> WE'LL CHECK ON THAT AND THIS AS WELL.

>> MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD JUST REFER YOU TO SOME OF THE LANGUAGE HERE. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RENTAL AGREEMENTS, THE LANGUAGE OF THE DRAFT ORDINANCE WOULDN'T REQUIRE THE KIND OF PROOF THAT WE OFTEN REQUIRE FOR VESTINGS IN TERMS OF EVIDENTIARY PROOF OF PRIOR USE, INSTEAD SHOW US THE PRIOR RENTAL AGREEMENT AND YOU WOULD HAVE VESTING ON THAT.

IN TERMS OF THERE IS A SUBSECTION 2 THAT DEALS JUST WITH MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY AND PARKING, AND THAT DOESN'T REFERENCE A RENTAL AGREEMENT BEING IN EXISTENCE.

INSTEAD, IT JUST SAYS, "LEGALLY ESTABLISHED SHORT-TERM VACATION RENTALS IN EXISTENCE PRIOR TO X DATE ARE VESTED FROM THE MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY AND PARKING REQUIREMENTS ABOVE." SO THAT'S SOMETHING THIS BOARD COULD CONSIDER EITHER PHASING OUT OR REQUIRING A CONTRACT IN ORDER FOR THAT TO BE A LEGALLY ESTABLISHED SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I WILL ALSO NOTE THAT I THINK WE WILL NEED SOME DIRECTION FROM THIS BOARD AND MAYBE THE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENCY IN TERMS OF WHAT DATE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR VESTING, WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE TODAY WHEN WE ARE CONSIDERING A DRAFT ORDINANCE OR WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE THE DATE OF ADOPTION OF THE ORDINANCE OR SOME DATE AFTER THAT IN ORDER TO ALLOW VACATION RENTALS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.

SO THOSE ARE THINGS FOR BOARD TO BE CONSIDERING AS WELL.

>> WELL, I FOR ONE WOULD CNSIDER VESTING APPLYING TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY RULE, NEW RULE, AMENDED RULE, THE EFFECTIVE DATE. IF SOMEONE, AN OWNER AGAIN, HAS A SIGNED AGREEMENT WITH SOMEONE ON A SHORT-TERM RENTAL BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE NEW RULE, THEN I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PROCEED UNDER THE CURRENT RULE.

BUT THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO STRESS MY INTERPRETATION OF VESTING. IT'S VERY NARROW.

IF YOU HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH A LESSEE, A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, AND IT'S SIGNED BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE NEW RULE, THEN

YOU'RE VESTED. >> I THINK I SHOULD BE MORE CLEAR THAT THE LANGUAGE INCLUDES BOTH THE DATE OF THE AGREEMENT AND THE DATE OF THE RESERVATION. SO FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU RESERVED A UNIT TODAY FOR NEXT SUMMER, THE BOARD WOULD CONSIDER BOTH OF THOSE DATES IN TERMS OF WHETHER SOMETHING SHOULD BE VESTED UNDER THE CURRENT DRAFTED LANGUAGE. WE HAVE DATES FOR BOTH OF THOSE.

SO IF YOU HAVE AN AGREEMENT BEFORE SOME DATE FOR A RESERVATION BEFORE A SECOND DATE, THAT MAY ALSO BE SOMETHING THE BOARD MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER, THE DATE OF THE

RESERVATION. >> AND THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT I WOULD HAVE AND ANYONE MAY WEIGH IN, IF YOU HAVE A THREE-BEDROOM

[01:35:03]

AND WHEN I THINK OF A THREE-BEDROOM HOME AND I PUT 12 INDIVIDUALS IN THERE, THAT'S PRETTY FULL.

I MEAN, I'M JUST TRYING TO APPLY WHAT I CALL MY SORT OF COMMON SENSE RULE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE OCCUPY A THREE-BEDROOM HOME.

12 SEEMS TO BE A PRECIOUS PLENTY.

>> AND IF I MAY SPEAK, THE ACTUAL -- THE WAY THE LANGUAGE

IS WRITTEN -- >> SAY IT AGAIN.

>> THE WAY THE LANGUAGE IS WRITTEN, IF YOU HAD A THREE-BEDROOM HOME, IT WOULD LIMIT IT TO TWO PERSONS PER BEDROOM, TWO PERSONS PER COMMON AREA.

WE DEFINE COMMON AREA AS A LIVING ROOM OR SO TO SAY.

IT JUST PUTS A CAP ON THE MAXIMUM, SAY ONE HAD SIX BEDROOMS, THEY WOULD BE CAPPED OFF AT 16.

SO A THREE-BEDROOM WOULD BE CAPPED OFF AT --

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION.

>> SURE. >> OKAY, WE NOW -- IF THERE AE

NO MORE -- YEAH, YEAH, YES, SIR. >> MR. CEARLEY, SOMETHING WAS RAISED BY THE PUBLIC THAT I THOUGHT OF WHEN READING THROUGH THE STAFF REPORT. IS IT ALLOWABLE TO SEPARATE OUR ORDINANCES INTO TWO TIERS, THOSE FOR THE MOM AND POP SMALLER RENTAL OWNERS VERSUS THE BIG COMPANIES, BIG CORPORATION, THAT WE'RE NOT TRYING TO CREATE A ONE SIZE FITS ALL POLICY WHEN THAT MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST WAY TO MOVE FORWARD?

>> THAT MAY BE A QUESTION FOR OUR LEGAL TEAM HERE.

>> COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST, WE HAD HEARD THE -- I THINK THE CONCERNS BY MORE THAN ONE PUBLIC SPEAKER ON THAT POINT.

WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT ISSUE TO SEE IF IT'S AN EQUAL PROTECTION ISSUE OR SOME OTHER IMPEDIMENT TO THAT.

WE CERTAINLY CAN LOOK AT THAT ISSUE.

BUT I WANT -- I DID WANT TO SAY THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ASSUMED AUTOMATICALLY THAT COULD BE DONE, BUT CERTAINLY WILL LOOK AT IT. THANK YOU.

>> MR. MCCORMACK, THROUGH THE VICE CHAIR, CAN WE EXPECT THAT TO COME BACK BEFORE THIS BOARD IS ASKED TO MAKE THAT DECISION

AFTER IT'S BEEN THROUGH THE PZA? >> YES.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> OKAY, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER

COMMENTS, DO WE HAVE A MOTION? >> MR. VICE CHAIR, I MOVE TO ANNOUNCE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS BEFORE THE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENCY ON JANUARY 21ST, 2021 AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON FEBRUARY 16TH, 2021.

>> SECOND. >> ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE VOTE.

AND THAT PASSES 4-0. AND I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

SO MANY OF YOU TOOK AN INTEREST AND YOU'RE ALL WEARING MASKS TO COME AND PARTICIPATE IN THIS PUBLIC HEARING.

WE KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT INMATE -- I WANT TO THANK YOU AND I'M SURE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AGREE FOR COMING TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR COMING. ALL RIGHT, THAT CONCLUDES ITEM 1. WE WILL NOW GO TO ITEM 2.

[2. Public Hearing * REZ 2020-17 Ravenswood Subdivision]

>> MR. VICE CHAIR, THIS WILL BE A JUDICIAL ITEM, IF THE BOARD

HAS ANY DISCLOSURES. >> OKAY, ON ITEM 2, COMMISSIONER

SMITH, ANY EX PARTE? >> I HAVE HAD NOTHING FROM THIS ITEM. I HAVE HAD A PHONE CALL FROM MR. DARREN A VOORHEES. HE LIVES IN RAVENSWOOD AS WELL.

HE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT DENSITY. I RECEIVED PHONE CALLS FROM MISS FRANNY HOWMAN ON OCTOBER 26TH AS WELL AS LATER.

AND I DON'T HAVE A DATE ON IT EITHER.

BUT ALSO EMAILS, I RECEIVED EMAILS FROM MISS HOWMAN THAT ARE PUBLIC RECORD ON OCTOBER 26TH, NOVEMBER 2TH AND 4TH.

SHE HAD CONCERNS WITH REGARD TO WHERE TRAFFIC WOULD GO IN LIGHT OF THIS BUT ALSO EXPRESSED EXTREME CONCERN NOT ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY BUT ABOUT DENSITY AND ALSO ABOUT THE

TEMPERANCY, THE TEMPORAL NATURE. >> I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION WITH DARREN VOORHEES. HE WAS CONCERNED THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THEIR VOICE OUT. I DON'T HAVE AN EXACT DATE ON

[01:40:02]

I ALSO HAD A CONVERSATION YESTERDAY WITH BRAD BIRCHFIELD WHO LIVES IN THE AREA. HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE DENSITY AS WAS MR. VOORHEES AND TRAFFIC, IF YOU INCREASE THE DENSITY, WHERE DOES THE TRAFFIC GO BECAUSE THERE'S TWO LANES THERE. HE MENTIONED TO FIND ANOTHER WAY OUT TO ANOTHER ROAD, IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO HAVE -- MORE DENSITY MIGHT BE OKAY, BUT AT THIS TIME HE DIDN'T SEE WHERE PEOPLE WERE

GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO THERE. >> ALL RIGHT, MR. WALDRON?

>> NO, SIR. >> EX PARTE? OKAY. I HAD A COUPLE OF EMAILS, THE ONLY ISSUE RAISED IN ADDITION TO THOSE MENTIONED HERE.

NOW, ONE INDIVIDUAL QUESTIONED THE POTENTIAL INCREASE IN ANY FLOODING DUE TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY.

AND I WAS GOING TO INQUIRE STAFF ABOUT THAT LATER.

SO THAT COMPLETES MY COMMENTS. AND WE'LL NOW HAVE THE STAFF PRESENTATION OR I GUESS WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT.

IS THE APPLICANT HERE?

>> GOOD MORNING, BOB PORTER, 4220 RACETRACK ROAD, ST. JOHNS COUNTY. I THINK WE ALL AGREE THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF WORKFORCE HOUSING IN THE COUNTY AND I THINK WE HAVE A DUTY TO PROVIDE FOR THE FOLKS THAT TAKE CARE OF US AND OUR FAMILIES, THE FIRST RESPONDERS, THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS, THE TEACHERS THAT MEAN SO MUCH TO US.

WE SPENT ABOUT A YEAR LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION FOR SOMETHING THAT WOULD WORK FOR THE INDUSTRY AND COUNTY WHERE THE COUNTY DIDN'T HAVE TO GIVE AWAY IMPACT FEES OR THAT KIND OF THING BUT THAT WOULD COME UP WITH A SYSTEM.

AND THE BOARD PASSED THAT AND IT TOOK EFFECT IN JULY.

IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. HORTON BUILDS MORE HOMES IN THE COUNTY IN AN AFFORDABLE PRICE RANGE THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

SO WE FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD BE PART OF THE SOLUTION AS WELL.

WE HAVE A FRAMEWORK. WE GOT THE ORDINANCE PASSED.

NOW IT'S A QUESTION OF FINDING THE RIGHT LOCATION.

I THINK WE HAVE GOT A GOOD LOCATION.

I KNOW THE STAFF REPORT DEMONSTRATES THAT THERE ARE NO FLOOD ISSUES AS FAR AS FLOOD ZONES GO.

AND THE STAFF REPORT SHOWS WE'RE BORDERED TO THE SOUTH BY RESIDENTIAL THAT ALLOWS 60 ACRE BY RIGHT AND THE REST BY RESIDENTIAL B. THAT PRETTY WELL SHOWS IT.

WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF SLIDES. CAN SOMEBODY TAKE CARE OF THE SLIDE? THERE WE GO, OKAY.

WE HAVE PLANNED ACCESS FROM THE NORTH, EXTENSION OF THE AVENUE FROM THE SOUTH FROM RAVENSWOOD DRIVE.

TO THE EAST IS CROOKSHANK ELEMENTARY.

IT EXTENDS ACROSS THE PROPERTY. THE SCHOOL BOARD STAFF DOES NOT WANT US TO CONNECT TO THAT. WE PROVIDE A SIDEWALK CONNECTION THERE SO THE KIDS CAN GET THERE. THE ORDINANCE WOULD GIVE US THE ABILITY TO DO ABOUT 300 HOMES TOTAL.

OF THOSE 40% OR 120 WOULD HAVE TO BE SELLING TO OWNER OCCUPANTS AT 210 OR LESS. LET'S GO ON TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

WE TALKED ABOUT LOCATION BEING THE IMPORTANT THING, THAT IT SHOULD BE CLOSE TO SERVICES. YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS SLIDE THAT WE ARE WITHIN ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL AND THE MIDDLE SCHOOL, THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL BORDERS IT.

LESS THAN TWO MILES TO A PUBLIX. LESS THAN FOUR MILES TO DOWNTOWN ST. AUGUSTINE AND ALL THE SERVICE JOBS THAT ARE IN THERE.

LESS THAN THREE MILES FROM THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATION BUILDING.

SO I THINK WE ARE KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF THINGS.

IT'S -- THERE'S A PARK HALF A MILE AWAY, PUBLIC PARK.

SO WE'VE GOT ALL OF THAT GOING FOR US.

WE WENT TO PZA, WE GOT A 6-0 RECOMMENDATION.

ONE MORE SLIDE HERE. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT SPOKE AT PZA WERE MR. AND MRS. BLACKSHEER.

AND THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR PRIVACY.

PARDON ME. THEY LIVE ALONG THE EASTBOUND --

[01:45:03]

THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE OUR HOUSES.

WE'RE PRESERVING THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WETLANDS ON IT.

AND IT DOESN'T SHOW FROM THE SLIDE, BUT THE EASTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY WE'RE BUYING FROM THE ST. JOHNS HOUSING PARTNERSHIP, THEY OWN IT CURRENTLY.

THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO DEVELOP IT.

SO WE WILL BE PAYING THEM $300,000 THAT WILL BE THEIR CASH TO GO BUY LOTS TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

SO WE'RE HELPING THE PROBLEM I THINK A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS. THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT, WHEN WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE MEETINGS ON THE ORDINANCE, WE HAD A LADY CALLED IN FROM SEBASTIAN COVE. SHE WAS IN A TOWN OUT THERE.

AND HER CONCERN WAS THE ONLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT YOU CAN BUY IS TWO-STORY AND DOES NOT FIT HER AND SOME OF THE OTHER FOLKS. SO WE HAVE NOW DEVELOPED A ONE-STORY PLAN THAT WILL BE PART OF IT AS WELL.

SO I THINK WE'VE GOT A GREAT LOCATION TO FINALLY IMPLEMENT OUR NEW ORDINANCE. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY

QUESTIONS. >> BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, THERE MAY BE OTHER QUESTIONS HERE, BUT I HAVE ONE, MR. PORTER. THAT SLIDE UP THERE NOW, THAT'S THE WETLANDS TO THE EAST. ARE THOSE OTHER TWO GREEN SECTIONS ALSO WETLANDS THAT WILL BE PRESERVED?

>> WELL, YOU'LL SEE RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF IT THAT LITTLE SWEEPING CURVE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ENGINEERING DONE YET, BUT THAT IS OUR ACCESS TO GET BETWEEN THE TWO.

THAT IS A WETLAND NOW. THAT WOULD BE AN IMPACT.

AND THEN AT THE VERY TOP YOU'LL SEE WHERE WE EXTEND THE AVENUE, THAT SMOOTH LINE THERE REPRESENTS ANOTHER SMALL IMPACT.

BUT IT'S EITHER THAT OR DO AN OFFSET INTERSECTION WHICH IS FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT JUST NOT NEARLY AS GOOD OR SAFE.

SO PROBABLY 90% OR MORE WILL BE PRESERVED.

>> YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETED THE ENGINEERING WORK, SO I ASSUME YOU HAVEN'T APPLIED FOR OR RECEIVED A WATER MANAGEMENT PERMIT FROM ST. JOHNS DISTRICT FOR WATER MANAGEMENT.

>> NO, SIR, WE HAVE NOT. >> YOU WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A WATER MANAGEMENT PERMIT PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION ON THIS PROPERTY.

>> ABSOLUTELY. >> YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS ON SITE RETENTION OF STORM WATER

UNDER THEIR CRITERIA? >> THAT'S RIGHT, COMMISSIONER.

OUR PEAK DISCHARGE AFTER IT'S DEVELOPED WILL NOT EXCEED WHAT IT IS TODAY. THAT'S THE GENERAL STANDARD AND WE WILL OF COURSE COMPLY WHERE THAT.

WE'RE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT FLOODING.

I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT THAT.

BUT I HAVE NOT DONE A PROJECT -- AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS NOW -- WHERE WE FLOODED PEOPLE ON SITE.

WE TAKE THAT VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY.

OUR ENGINEER IS HERE TODAY. HE WAS WITH ME AT PZA.

HE KNOWS THAT IS A TOP CONCERN. SO WE WILL LOOK FOR IT.

AT THE PZA MEETING, I'LL REPEAT IT AGAIN, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT FLOODING, IF THEY'LL GET IN TOUCH AND LET US KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, WE CAN LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF THERE'S AN EXISTING PROBLEM, MAKE SURE THAT MAYBE WE CAN HELP THEM WITH IT, BUT WE CERTAINLY WON'T MAKE IT WORSE.

>> ALL RIGHT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS

FROM THE -- YES, SIR. >> I DO, MR. PORTER.

THIS HAS AN EXISTING PUD ON THE PROPERTY NOW.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? HOW ACREAGE WAS ADDED TO BY ST.

JOHNS HOUSING PARTNERSHIP AND WHAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE LAND? IT'S NOT UNDER PUD, IS THAT?

>> THE PUD, AND I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY, WAS FOR SOMETHING LIKE 120 LOTS, WHICH IS UNDER THE PUD AND THE REZ B WHICH IS 2D ACRE.

IT LETS US DO SIX UNITS WITH AN ACRE.

THERE IS AN INCREASE IN DENSITY WHICH ENABLES US TO GET THE PRICING DOWN TO SELL HOUSES THAT WILL BE AT 210 OR LESS.

THE EAST WAS A TOTAL OF 12 ACRES THAT WE'RE BUYING FROM THE

HOUSING PARTNERSHIP. >> SO THE ORIGINAL WAS ABOUT 126 UNITS, WHICH IS ABOUT 2.73 UNITS PER ACRE, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, AND THEN THIS WOULD ACTUALLY INCREASE IT TO ABOUT 6 UNITS PER ACRE OVER THE ENTIRE ACREAGE, WHICH IS INCLUSIVE OF THE ADDITIONAL PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE ACQUIRING FROM ST. JOHNS HOUSING PARTNERSHIP, IS THAT CORRECT? ?

>> YES, SIR. >> THAT GOES TO 322, WHICH IS A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF DIFFERENCE IN REGARD TO DENSITY OF WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT

[01:50:01]

BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE.

WE'VE INCREASED THE ACREAGE FROM THE LAST TIME THE PUD WAS REZONED FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY BUT ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS ENHANCED DENSITY. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO DRAMATIC TO SOME OF THOSE FOLKS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, SEEING THAT

DENSITY INCREASE. >> YES, SIR, THAT'S CORRECT.

IT IS NOT JUST THE OLD RAVENSWOOD PUD THAT ALLOWS US TO

ADD TO THE DENSITY. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> GOOD MORNING, MR. PORTER, I NOTICED IN THE STAFF REPORT THERE'S 11.4 ACRES OF WETLANDS.

THE REPORT DOES NOT SPECIFY WHETHER THERE'S IMPACTS TO THE WETLAND AREA BUT IT DOES NOT INDICATE AN IMPACT.

I KNOW THIS IS KIND OF ECHOING COMMISSIONER DEAN'S COMMENTS, BUT IT SAYS THE SITE DATA INDICATES THERE WILL NOT BE AN IMPACT, I FELT LIKE I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THERE WILL BE SOME IMPACT TO THE WETLANDS AND DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH AT THIS POINT WITHOUT HAVING DONE THE ENGINEERING?

>> NO. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN THE WORKFORCE HOUSING ORDINANCE IS THE ABILITY TO PUT THE ZONING IN PLACE. WITH A PUD WE END UP HAVING TO DO THE ENGINEERING AHEAD OF TIME TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS THE STAFF HAS. WITH THE NEW ORDINANCE WE GET A CHANCE TO GO TRY AND GET THE ZONING FIRST SO WE DON'T HAVE TO SPEND $100,000 TO $200,000 IN THE HOPE WE GET SOMETHING APPROVED. WE HAVE NOT ENGINEERED IT.

OUR INTENT IS TO STAY OUT OF THE WETLANDS AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

WE HAVE, AS I SAY, AT THE ENTRY ROAD, WE HAVE AN IMPACT WE CAN'T AVOID. THE STUFF ON THE EAST WE WILL AVOID ENTIRELY. WE WILL NEED TO CROSS THAT NORTH/SOUTH WETLAND BECAUSE THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO GET TO THE BALANCE OF THE PROPERTY. THE MAJORITY OF IT WILL BE SAVED, BUT IT WILL ALL BE DONE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE COUNTY AND THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT RULES.

SO IF WE DO END UP WITH IMPACTS, WE WILL BE REQUIRED TO MITIGATE

FOR THEM. >> OKAY.

IT JUST SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THERE WILL BE SOME IMPACT.

>> THERE ABSOLUTELY WILL BE SOME IMPACT.

>> THERE WILL BE SOME IMPACTS. OKAY, THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.

THANK YOU, MR. PORTER. >> MR. PORTER, ON TRAFFIC, WHAT IMPROVEMENTS ARE WE LOOKING AT. THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES I HAVE WITH THE INCREASE IN DENSITY.

I WORK WITH THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING EVERY YEAR AND I REALLY WANT TO SEE IT DONE. THIS IS A TOUGH PLACE FOR ME

BECAUSE OF TRAFFIC. >> I UNDERSTAND, COMMISSIONER.

WE FILED ON AUGUST 18TH OUR ENGINEER FILED FOR TRAFFIC CON CURRENCY. ABOUT TEN DAYS AGO WE GOT COMMENTS BACK. HE'S RESPONDING TO THOSE COMMENTS THIS WEEK, BUT WE DON'T HAVE CON SURGEON IS I YET.

-- CONCURRENCY YET. IT'S A PROCESS THAT TAKES A WHILE. WE WILL ABSOLUTELY COMPLY WITH C CONCURRENCY UNDER THE ORDINANCE, WHATEVER THAT IS. BUT I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER YET BECAUSE WE'RE STILL GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH THE

STAFF. >> YEAH, BECAUSE I MEAN IT'S JUST YOU'RE GOING INTO OLD TWO-LANE ROADS AND SUBDIVISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN ALIVE.

IT MAKES IT HARD FOR ME ON THAT ONE.

AND AS FAR AS YOUR EASTERLY, YOU COULD GO OUT CROOKSHANK OR HAVE

THAT AS AN EMERGENCY? >> WE WILL NOT BE USING CROOKSHANK. THE SCHOOL BOARD STAFF DID NOT WANT THE TRAFFIC PAST THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

>> THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON THE OTHER ROADS DON'T WANT THE

TRAFFIC TO COME BY THEM EITHER. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT TO ME THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IS KIND OF A SPECIAL CASE AND IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD THAT BELONGS TO THE SCHOOL BOARD, SO EVEN IF WE DISAGREE WITH THEM, WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THAT.

>> OKAY, THAT'S WHAT MY QUESTION WAS, WHETHER IT WAS PRIVATE OR

NOT. >> OKAY, LET'S GO TO PUBLIC

COMMENT. >> WE'LL OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2. GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING, SHERRY BADGER, 2772 SOUTH COLLINS.

OKAY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MY NEIGHBORHOOD ONCE AGAIN.

I CHALLENGE YOUR STAFF THAT BACK IN MATTHEW, MY BOSS BOUGHT A BRAND-NEW HOME IN THAT DEVELOPMENT.

IN MATTHEW HE HAD WATER COMING THROUGH HIS HOUSE.

JOSIAH ON THE CITY LIMITS HAD FOUR TO FIVE FEET OF WATER MISS DIANNE MILLS HAS BEEN WATCHING BECAUSE SHE HAD A HOUSE ON

[01:55:06]

PAUL, YOU KNOW YOURSELF THE TRAFFIC IMPACT.

I CHALLENGE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU TO GET NEAR CROOKSHANK SCHOOL AT 2:30. THEY TRIED TO DEVELOP THIS 15 YEARS AGO AND THEY GOT SHOT DOWN BECAUSE THAT IS THE WETLANDS WHERE EVERYBODY'S WATER IS FLOWING TO NOW THAT THE THINGS HAVE KEPT COMING BUILT, BUT THIS MAN TO STAND UP HERE AND SAY THAT RAVENSWOOD DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU CAN GO RIGHT OVER THERE, THAT BRAND-NEW NEIGHBORHOOD, AND ASK HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT FLOODED OUT. THANK YOU, GOD BLESS, HAVE A GREAT DAY.

>> GOOD MORNING. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND

ADDRESS. >> MY NAME IS BRADLEY BIRCHFIELD. I LIVE IN SANTAROSSA WITH THE [INDISCERNIBLE] DEVELOPMENT. AND THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK. LIKE COMMISSIONER WALDRON'S EXPRESSED AND MS. BADGER PRIOR TO ME, IT'S SEVERELY INADEQUATE TO HANDLE ANY MORE TRAFFIC AND OF COURSE YOU'RE NOT DUMPING A HANDFUL OF HUNDRED CARS. YOU'LL BE DUMPING LIKE 300 PLUS.

I JUST CHALLENGE ALL THE COMMISSIONERS TO RIDE [INDISCERNIBLE] AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S NO SIDEWALKS, THERE'S NO SHOULDER OF ROAD, THE HOUSES ARE ENTIRELY TOO CLOSE.

AND OF COURSE WHEN THEY FIND THEMSELVES BACKED UP IN THE MORNING, THE ONLY WAY TO MITIGATE THE TRAFFIC IS TO SKIRT THROUGH THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH OF COURSE WE DON'T WANT. AND THE SCHOOL BOARD [INDISCERNIBLE] SAME WAY AS COMMISSIONER WALDRON EXPRESSED, WE CAN'T HANDLE -- WE DON'T WANT IT, NOR CAN HANDLE IT.

JUST LIKE THE DEVELOPER BEFORE THAT, WE NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THAT IS AN IDEAL LOCATION BUT IT'S TOO FAR INSET INSIDE COMMUNITIES TO HANDLE THE INFLUX OF UP TRAFFIC. THAT SAID, THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS MYSELF AND GOOD LUCK ON Y'ALL'S DECISION. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MR. BIRCHFIELD. ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT?

>> GOOD MORNING. >> GOOD MORNING.

NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. >> HI, ED SLAVEN.

WHY WASN'T MR. PORTER SWORN IN AS A WITNESS? MISS BADGER RAISED GOOD QUESTIONS.

YOU'RE DOING A MUCH BETTER JOB OF DISCLOSING YOUR EX PARE CONTACTS AND I WANT TO COMMEND YOU FOR THAT AND THAT FORMER VICE MAYOR NEVIL IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE DID A SPREADSHEET AND I THINK THAT'S THE STANDARD OF CARE FROM NOW ON.

WHEN SOMEONE TESTIFIES AT PZA, THEY'RE SWORN.

WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT'S HOLY DID YOU LET MR. PORTER FROM D.R. HORTON TESTIFY WITHOUT BEING SWORN? YOU'RE DOING THAT ALL THE TIME. YOU GUYS WOULD SWEAR IN THE WITNESSES AS THE CASE MAY BE. BUT YOU LET UNSWORN TESTIMONY IN AND SHERRY BADGER JUST GAVE YOU UNDISPUTED TESTIMONY ABOUT FLOODING IN THIS PLACE. YOU CAN'T APPROVE THIS TODAY.

YOU MUST TABLE IT. IF YOU DON'T, THAT IS AN ADMISSION OF CORRUPTION ON ALL OF YOUR ALL'S PART.

YOU NEED TO CROSS EXAMINE THE WITNESSES, LET US CROSS EXAMINE THE WITNESSES WITH MORE THAN THREE MINUTES.

WHEN THEY WON'T SAY WHO THE BENEFICIAL OWNERS OF THE PROPERTIES ARE AND YOU DON'T SWEAR THEM IN, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT Y'ALL WITH ALL OF Y'ALL TAKING THE MONEY FROM THE DEVELOPERS INCLUDING OUR NEW COMMISSIONER.

YOU LET THEM GET ANYTHING THEY WANT.

I'M ALL FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR IT FOR YEARS. A KEY PLACE TO DO THAT THAT'S HIGH AND DRY WOULD HAVE THE 80 ACRES THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE OWNS, THE PLACE BILL HARRIS ILLEGALLY DUMPED CONTAMINATED SOLID WASTE. MISS BADGER KNOWS ALL ABOUT THAT AND WE GOT THAT CLEANED UP. WHY DON'T WE HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY WHERE THE LAND ACQUISITION COST WOULD BE ZERO. WE COULD HAVE DONET AND NANCY SHAVER AND I DISCUSSED THAT SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

WE COULD ACQUIRE THAT AND DO AFFORDABLE HOUSING THERE AND

[02:00:04]

WE'LL LET PEOPLE BE FLOODED IN THE FLOOD ZONE AND FLOODED OUT FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THAT'S AN INSULT.

THAT'S ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM, FOLKS.

YOU CAN'T APPROVE THIS AND YOU MUST SWEAR IN ALL OF THE WITNESSES FROM THIS DAY FORWARD AND ANY TIME A WITNESS IN A QUASI HEARING. WHY WON'T YOU SWEAR IN THE WITNESSES? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF UNSWORN TESTIMONY FROM MULTINATIONAL CORPORATION TO BE RELIED ON.

IT IS CORRUPT. WOULD Y'ALL PLEASE SWEAR IN THE

WITNESS? >> THERE, MR. SLAVEN.

>> WOULD YOU SWEAR ME IN AND MR. PORTER ON THE BIBLE?

>> THANK YOU, MR. SLAVEN.3 >> WILL YOU SWEAR IN THE WITNESSES? ANSWER ME PLEASE.

TAKE A VOTE. PLEASE MAKE A MOTION AND VOTE ON

SWEARING IN WITNESSES. >> I THINK WE GOT THE POINT,

THANK YOU >> NOTHING LESS THAN A VOTE WILL D DO.

>> GOOD MORNING. >> ALMOST AFTERNOON.

IT'S 11:00. BJ KALEDI.

I THINK WE COULD HANDLE THAT PROBLEM.

I'M NOT A BIG TECH PERSON. BUT IF YOU'RE CALLING IN AND YOU'RE PAST THE THREE MINUTES, CAN'T YOU JUST TURN OFF THE PHONE? I DON'T KNOW.

THAT WOULD JUST BE MY THINKING. I DON'T KNOW.

I'M NOT A TECH PERSON. I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS.

I WROTE YOU ALL ABOUT THE DENSITY TRAFFIC AND SPOKE ABOUT THE FLOODING. WE HAVEN'T SOLVED THAT PROBLEM.

I WOULD ASK THAT IT BE CONTINUED UNTIL THE CONCURRENCY IS PROVIDED. THAT SHOULD BE KNOWN BEFORE THIS WORK HOUSE GOES IN BECAUSE IT WILL AFFECT EVERYBODY AROUND THERE AND THE SCHOOL BOARD TOO AND THE CHILDREN AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT AREA.

AND ALSO, I KNOW THIS IS NOT WHAT THE DEVELOPERS WANT TO DO, BUT IF YOU BUILT SMALLER AND NOT, EXCUSE ME, MULTI-FAMILY, ARE ALL OF THESE 198 GOING TO BE SINGLE FLOORS OR IS IT GOING TO BE DOUBLE UP FOR THE MULTI-FAMILY, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAY MULTI-FAMILY, TO ME IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S CONDOS.

WE DON'T WANT TO CALL IT APARTMENTS FOR THE PEOPLE PEOPLE, OR TOWNHOUSES. THAT'S WHERE MY CONCERN IS.

BUT REALLY I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE CONTINUED.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE FACTS AND HIM SHOWING THE WETLANDS, I CAN SEE THE GREEN. IF HE'S GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT LITTLE PART THERE, WE OUGHT TO HAVE IN WRITING HE'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT THE WETLANDS. LET'S GET THIS STUFF IN WRITING INSTEAD OF JUST SUGGESTING WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

THAT'S THE REASON WE HAVE YOU ALL UP THERE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO PUSH THIS THROUGH.

I KNOW WE WANT TO GET DONE BEFORE 12:00, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO PUSH THESE THINGS THROUGH. AND I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE THING ABOUT THE PHONE CALLS. DID EVERYONE GET MY SUGGESTION? LIKE I'M NOT A TECH PERSON, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASY TO DO THAT. I WOULD VOLUNTEER TO EVEN GO BACK THERE AND HELP MR. TOM FOR FREE.

I WOULD DO THAT. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN DO THAT. BUT WE CAN DO THAT.

IT'S CALLED RESPECT. RESPECT ME TO YOU, YOU TO US, CALLERS TO ALL OF US, OKAY? IT'S NOT A HARD THING TO DO, FOLKS. AND THEY WILL LEARN.

YOU HAVE TO START TURNING IT OFF AND THEN THEY GET ALL EXCITED THE NEXT TIME THEY CALL IN AND THEY'LL USE A MINUTE OF THAT TO COMPLAIN. THEN THEY CAN BE TURNED OFF AGAIN. IT'S REINFORCEMENT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO IS REINFORCEMENT.

LIKE I'VE GOT 18, 17, I'M GOING TO LEAVE ON 15.

>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2? SEEING NONE, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 2.

>> THIS IS IN DISTRICT 5. IF THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER BOARD COMMENTS, I'M PREPARED TO MAKE A MO MOTION. ANY OTHER? OKAY. LET ME PREFACE MY MOTION BY SAYING THIS IS PROBABLY A TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE OF TRYING TO PROVIDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN ST. JOHNS COUNTY AIN'T EASY.

AND I KNOW WE HAD THE COMMITTEE THAT PAUL REFERRED THAT HE SERVE SERVED ON TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A PILOT PROGRAM THAT MADE SENSE. AGAIN, WHEN YOU TRY TO PROVIDE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT WHEN A MEDIAN PRICE

[02:05:01]

HAVING SAID THAT, I BELIEVE, AS AT LEAST ONE COMMISSIONER, I BELIEVE THAT THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT WILL FULLY EXPLORE AND ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL FLOODING AND WETLAND ISSUES. I BELIEVE CONCURRENCY WILL ADDRESS THE TRAFFIC ISSUES AND GIVEN THE FACT THIS PROVIDE SEVERAL HUNDRED UNITS OF HOME, I AM PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION TO

ENACT ORDINANCE 2020. >> 57.

>> APPROVING REZONING 2020-17 RAVENSWOOD SUBDIVISION BASED ON FINDINGS OF FACT PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

IS THERE A SECOND? HEARING NONE.

THEN THE MOTION FAILS FOR LACK OF A SECOND.

ALL RIGHT. WE WILL GO TO ITEM 3.

>> MR. VICE CHAIR, BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH ITEM 3, I WOULD SAY THAT ACCORDING TO THE BOARD'S RULES AND POLICIES, FAILURE TO OBTAIN AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE ON SOMETHING, OR BASICALLY A MAJORITY VOTE ON SOMETHING, ON AN APPLICATION, IT CONSTITUTES A DENIAL. WHEN THERE IS A DENIAL, THE COUNTY IS REQUIRED TO SEND A WRITING TO THE APPLICANT INDICATING THE REASONS FOR DENIAL.

AND IF POSSIBLE, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AUTHORIZATION TO SEND ONE SAYING, IF NOT ADOPTING THE FINDINGS OF FACT FOR DENIAL, JUST A LETTER SIMPLY SAYING THAT IT FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE THE POSITIVE FINDINGS OF FACT, ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT.

IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR THE RECORD TO HAVE SUCH A WRITING SENT TO THE APPLICANT THAT IT'S REQUIRED TO DO.

AND SO I WOULD ASK FOR THE AUTHORIZATION TO DO THAT.

>> OKAY, IS THERE A CONSENSUS ON THAT? I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE

THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. >> SURE.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD JUST MY PERSPECTIVE ON THIS AS WELL.

MR. PORTER, I APPRECIATE THE EFFORT.

I HAVE REAL RESERVATIONS ABOUT THIS BEING THE RIGHT SPOT AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT. THAT IS A CONCERN OF MINE AND BRINGS OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP, WHETHER IT BE FLOODING, WHICH THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT I HAVE VERY SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH, BUT ALSO WITH THE TRAFFIC CONCURRENCY CAN HANDLE THAT, BUT I HAVE REAL RESERVATIONS ABOUT IT WITH THAT MUCH DENSITY. APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS, BUT I AGREE A NARRATIVE NEEDS TO BE PRESENTED TO THEM.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU.

WE ALL AGREE TO THAT. >> THANK YOU.

[3. Public Hearing * PLNAPPL 2020-05 - Planning and Zoning Agency Appeal of ZVAR 2020-19.]

>> ALL RIGHT. NOW WE WILL GO TO ITEM 3.

AND COMMISSIONER SMITH, CAN YOU RUN THIS FOR A MINUTE OR TWO

WHILE I STEP OUT? >> I SURE CAN, BE GLAD TO.

ITEM 3 IS A QUASI JUDICIAL. MR. DEAN, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, IF YOU DON'T MIND, IF THERE ARE DISCLOSURES THAT NEED TO BE MADE NOW, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME FOR IT.

>> I HAVE KNOWN. >> ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER

WALDRON? >> I HAVE NONE

>> COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST? >> I HAVE NONE.

>> I HAVE NONE AS WELL. WE'LL GO FORWARD.

GOOD MORNING. >> MY NAME IS MARCELLE GRIMARD.

I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF MY MOTHER AMY WILLIAMS. HER RESIDENCE IS 6848 MIDDLETON AVENUE.

MY PARENTS HAVE LIVED IN THIS HOUSE SINCE IS '70S, 45 YEARS, MAYBE 50. IT'S A UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE'VE HAD WONDERFUL TIMES THERE AND ALL KINDS OF GOOD NEIGHBORS, GOOD FRIENDS. AND THE WAY OUR PROPERTY IS SITUATED, THE HOUSE IS MORE KIND OF ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THE GARAGE, DETACHED GARAGE IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE.

SO THERE'S A BIG SPOT BETWEEN THE END OF THE HOUSE AND OUR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE. THAT'S JUST OUR CONGREGATING SPOT. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BACKYARDS.

THIS IS LIKE OUR BACKYARD BUT IT'S AT THE SIDE.

AND ABOUT A YEAR AGO, LATE DECEMBER, EARLY JANUARY, I CAME BACK FROM VISITING MY MOTHER'S ASSISTED LIVING PLACE.

MY DAD HAS ALREADY PASSED AWAY. OUR NEIGHBOR JOSH WAS BUILDING

[02:10:04]

AND HE SAID, "I'VE GOT TO BUILD THIS BIG FENCE." IT TORE ME UP AND MADE ME MAD AT THE SAME TIME.

WELL, ANYWAY, SO DURING THIS PAST YEAR, MY MOTHER'S COME BACK TO HER HOUSE WITH HOSPICE NOW. AND EVERY TIME WE JUST DRIVE UP IN THE DRIVEWAY, WE JUST -- IT'S A MIX OF SADNESS AND ANGER.

AND JUST BECAUSE IT'S JUST WE'VE BEEN GOOD NEIGHBORS FOR A VERY LONG TIME. SO I KIND OF KNOW MORE OF THE EMOTIONAL PART. BUT MY HUSBAND IS GOOD WITH DETAILS. HE'S GOING TO PRESENT MORE OF THE DETAIL PARTS ON BEHALF OF BOTH OF US.

>> YES, SIR, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. GOOD MORNING, MR. GRIMARD.

>> GOOD MORNING. I'M THE DETAIL MAN.

MARCELLE STARTED THINGS. >> GET A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE

MIC. >> YEAH, IT'S HARD TO HEAR YOU.

>> IS THIS BETTER? I'VE GOT SOME PAPERS.

>> YOU'RE FINE. DO THE BEST YOU CAN.

>> OKAY. I'M GOING TO INCLUDE SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE SEPTEMBER MEETING WHEN THIS WAS PRESENTED.

AND I'LL BEGIN BY READING WHAT MR. DELOECH HAD TO SAY.

THERE'S AN ELEVATION CHANGE UP TO MY PROPERTY AND AS WELL AS IN MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE. WE ARE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER ABOVE THE SIX FOOT FENCE. STANDING IN MY HOME AND MY NEIGHBOR STANDING IN THEIR HOME, THEY HAVE A CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT RIGHT INTO MY BATHTUB AND BEDROOM WINDOW.

THAT WAS MY MOTIVATION. HE'S REFERRING TO THE NEIGHBOR ON THE EAST, I BELIEVE. THIS IS FROM MY BATHROOM LOOKING OUT AT THE FENCE. AND I'LL SHOW MR. DELOECH'S PHOTO HERE. YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE FENCE THERE. THERE'S A LOT OF SUNLIGHT ON IT.

THERE'S APPROXIMATELY A TWO-FOOT ELEVATION ON THE SIDE OF MY PROPERTY WHERE IF A SIX-FOOT FENCE IS LOOKING CHEST HIGH OVER THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE, SO YOU FELT IT WAS -- I GUESS THIS -- SO I FELT THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A BIT HIGHER FENCE FOR MY FAMILY. WELL, THIS IS THE OUTSIDE OF WHERE THE BATHROOM IS LOOKING OUT.

>> COULD YOU TURN IT HORIZONTALLY SO WE CAN SEE IT WITHOUT -- THERE YOU GO, THANK YOU.

>> THIS IS THE OUTSIDE. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS NO TWO-FOOT ELEVATION. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL HOME THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR QUITE A WHILE. I THINK SINCE 1960.

THERE'S A SIX-INCH ELEVATION THERE.

I'LL GO ON. THIS IS THE ADDITION THAT WE PUT ONTO OUR HOME. AGAIN, MR. DELOACH'S PHOTO.

THAT WE HAD TO PASS OUR FIRST VARIANCE THAT Y'ALL APPROVED FOR US. IT STATES ON THE PHOTO, WITH TT T THE ELEVATION OF THE NEW ADDITION, THE FENCE MEETS THE BOTTOM OF OUR WINDOWS. WELLS, THIS THE NEW ADDITION HERE, TEHE ELEVATED. THIS IS THE OLD HOME, STILL SIX INCHES OFF THE GROUND. AND THE FENCE COMES AROUND ONLY THE OLD HOME, NOT THE ELEVATED PART.

THIS IS THE EIGHT-FOOT FENCE WE'RE REFERRING TO.

I'LL GO ON WITH DELOACH'S STATEMENT.

I HAVE PLANS TO BUILD A DECK OFF THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS GOING TO BE LEVEL WITH STEPPING OUT OF THE HOME ONTO THE DECK.

THIS IS THE PHOTO THAT HE SHOWED.

THE SITE OF THE FUTURE DECK. AND SORRY, I HAVE TO FIND MY SPOT AGAIN HERE. IF I DO THAT, I WILL BE A CHEST HEIGHT LOOKING OVER A SIX-FOOT FENCE.

SO FOR THAT REASON, I FEEL IT IS SUFFICIENT TO HAVE AN EIGHT-FOOT FENCE. AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS PART OF THE HOUSE IS NOT ELEVATED.

AND WHAT YOU DON'T SEE BEHIND THE CAMERA IS THIS SHED ABUTTING

[02:15:09]

AND IT EXTENDS TO WITHIN ONE FOOT OF THE PROPERTY LINE.

WHERE IT IS CONCEALED BY THE FENCE.

I'LL GO ON. ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS ASKED WHY IS THE ADDITION ELEVATED? THAT'S FEMA CODE.

ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER STATED, "THE REASON I WOULD NORMALLY VOTE NO ON THIS IS BECAUSE THEY CREATED THEIR OWN HARDSHIP WHEN THY GOT A VARIANCE TO BUILD THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE BUILDING IN THIS AREA. BUT IF THE ELEVATION OF THAT HOUSE IS SET AT WHAT IT IS SET AT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED BECAUSE OF IT BEING IN A FLOODPLAIN THEN I WOULD SAY THAT THEY AT THE TIME APPLIED FOR AN 8-FOOT FENCE WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE APPROVED THE 8-FOOT FENCE." HOWEVER, IF WE GO BACK TO THE AERIAL PHOTO, WE SEE THAT THE 8-FOOT FENCE DOESN'T EVEN REACH THE ELEVATED PART OF THE HOUSE. AND FROM THE NEIGHBOR ON THE EAST, THE NEIGHBOR THAT MR. DELOACH WAS CONCERNED THAT WOULD HAVE A VIEW INTO THE BEDROOM AND THE BATHROOM, THE FENCE HERE, THE 8-FOOT FENCE AGAIN DOESN'T EVEN REACH T THE ELEVATED ADDITION. WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO MR. DELOACH HAVING AN 8-FOOT FENCE TO BLOCK VIEW OF THE NEIGHBOR TO THE EAST INTO THE ELEVATED PART OF THIS HOME.

HOWEVER, IT APPEARS THAT NO CHANGE IN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WOULD JUSTIFY THIS MONSTER OF A FENCE, MUCH LESS THE SHED NEXT TO THE PROPERTY LINE. I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO MENTION THAT YOUR STAFF WAS GREAT. IT'S NO FUN HAVING CONFLICT WITH A NEIGHBOR, BUT YOUR STAFF GUIDED US THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND THEY WERE VERY PROMPT IN THEIR REPLIES.

THEY DID A GREAT JOB. >> THEANK YOU.

>> I JUST WANT TO SUMMARIZE AGAIN BY SAYING WE'VE ENJOYED THIS HOUSE FOR A LONG TIME AND WE ENJOY OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE ARE HESITANT TO EVEN BRING THIS UP.

BUT IT'S JUST -- IT JUST GOB SMACKS YOU EVERY TIME YOU COME INTO THE YARD AND TO ME, LIKE I SAID, IT'S SADNESS AND IT'S ANGER TOO AT THE SAME TIME. BUT I THINK THE THING THAT, FROM OUR SIDE, WHEN JOSH IS IN WITH HIS FAMILY AND THEY'RE SECURE IN THEIR SPACE, THEY SEE THAT SECURITY BUT WE SEE IT JUST AS IT'S ALMOST LIKE A WALL BECAUSE THE BOARDS DON'T RUN VERTICAL LIKE A FENCE, THEY'RE HORIZONTAL.

SO IT DOES TAKE A LOT OUT OF YOU WHEN YOU DRIVE IN THE YARD.

WE HAVE GOOD NEIGHBORS AND THEY'VE BEEN WONDERFUL TO US FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THANK YOU.

>> WE'LL HEAR FROM MR. DELOACH NOW.

MR. DELOACH. >> MR. GRIMARD, YEAH, CAN WE HAVE THOSE FOR THE RECORD? GOOD MORNING.

>> HEY, GOOD MORNING, JOSH DELOACH, 6864 MIDDLETON AVENUE.

WE PURCHASED OUR HOME IN 2007. WE'VE HAD A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEIGHBORS NEXT DOOR, WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO MAINTAIN AND CONTINUE. OUT MY EAST BEDROOM WINDOW THERE'S A CAMERA 20 FEET FACING MY BEDROOM.

I CAN'T ASK THE MAN TO CHANGE THAT.

HE'S PROTECTING THE BACK OF HIS PROPERTY.

THE HOUSES ARE VERY CLOSE TOGETHER.

SO I PUT UP A FENCE TO PROVIDE MY BEDROOM THE PRIVACY THAT I FELT LIKE WE NEEDED. I HAVE A THREE-YEAR-OLD LITTLE GIRL THAT'S GOING TO BE A TEENAGER ONE DAY, AND OUR BATHROOM FACING THE NORTH END FACING THE WILLIAMS' PROPERTY.

I FELT IT WAS SUFFICIENT TO PUT A LITTLE MORE OF A FENCE OVER THERE TO PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE PRIVACY.

[02:20:03]

WE LIVE RIGHT BY THE 206 BRIDGE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT BRIDGES, BUT HOMELESS PEOPLE COME AND GO FROM THEM.

I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT THE THINGS THAT CROSSED MY MIND WHY IT'S SUFFICIENT FOR ME TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE PRIVACY.

IT WAS NOTHING -- IT WAS NOT BUILT TO OFFPUT MY NEIGHBORS OR TO OFFEND THEM. WE'VE BEEN GREAT FRIENDS.

MISS AMY WAS IN A NURSING HOME WHEN IT WAS BUILT.

WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY CONTACT WITH THEM.

AND IT WASN'T BAD MOTIVES. AND WE RECEIVED A VARIANCE.

THEY SAID IT COULD BE AN 8-FOOT FENCE.

IT'S NOW A 7.5-FOOT FENCE. I TOOK A BOARD OFF THE TOP OF IT TRYING TO KIND OF COME TO SOME MIDDLE GROUND.

AND THANK Y'ALL FOR YOUR TIME. I'LL SHOW YOU A PICTURE HOLDING A TAPE MEASURE UP AGAINST OUR BACKDOOR.

IT'S ABOUT 20 INCHES FROM THE GROUND INTO OUR HOME.

THERE'S THE PAVERS. THERE'S A TAPE MEASURE.

THE STOOP ITSELF, THE CONCRETE PAD MY WIFE IS STANDING ON, IS ABOUT 17 INCHES AND IT'S 4 INCHES STEPUP FROM THAT PAD INTO THE HOME. SO THAT'S MUCH MORE THAN A 6-INCH ELEVATION CHANGE. THAT'S A SOLID 20-INCH ELEVATION CHANGE. NEVER MEANT TO MISLEAD ANYBODY BY THAT, BUT WE DO HAVE A 20-INCH ELEVATION CHANGE FROM STANDING IN MY BATHROOM TO 10 FEET AWAY ON MY PROPERTY LINE.

SO THAT'S ALL. YOU GUYS HAVE A GOOD DAY.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT. WE NOW GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WISH TO SPEAK?

>> MR. DELOACH, HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT FOR PUBLIC RECORD IF YOU WOULD PLEASE. WE NOW OPEN UP AGENDA ITEM

NUMBER 3 FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. >> CAN WE ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT? GOOD. BJ KALEDI, CITY OF ST.

AUGUSTINE. THIS IS JUST FOR THE PUBLIC SEE.

I DID GET THAT OUT OF THE BACKUP MATERIAL.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF BACKUP MATERIAL ON THIS ONE.

AND I DO APPRECIATE PEOPLE KNOWING THE PROCEDURE AND PUTTING THEMSELVES IN AN APPEAL SITUATION.

IT'S NOT A PLEASANT THING, BUT WHEN YOU'RE IN A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY AND YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR AND YOU BUILD SOMETHING AND THEN GO AND GET A VARIANCE AFTER YOU BUILD IT, IS NOT BEING VERY NEIGHBORLY IN MY OPINION. AND THE REASON THIS SHOULD BE UPHELD FOR THESE PEOPLE, THE GRI GRIMARDS, SORRY IF I'M SAYING THAT WRONG, IS BECAUSE THERE IS, NUMBER ONE, NO HARDSHIP IN YOUR PACKET, NUMBER TWO, IT'S CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST. IT'S BEEN THERE FOREVER AND NOW THEY HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS. AND NUMBER FOUR, THERE'S A CONFLICT WITH THE FLOW. BUT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO CODE ENFORCEMENT, RESIDENT VERSUS RESIDENT.

AND IT GETS BACK TO THE THING WHERE WHY DO WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE AND THEN IF SOMEBODY KNOWS WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS AND THEN TAKES IT IN AND THEN THE PZA APPROVES IT, THEN THE OTHER ONE THAT IS UPSET ABOUT THE LAWS NOT BEING FOLLOWED HAVE TO COME BEFORE YOU AND APPEAL. I KNOW THAT'S THE PROCESS, BUT IT GOES BACK TO THE SAME THING. SELFISH INDIVIDUALS HAVE NO RESPECT. THIS GENTLEMAN AND HIS FAMILY COULD HAVE GONE OVER AND SPOKEN WITH THE MOTHER, OR IF SHE WASN'T THERE, YOU'VE KNOWN THESE PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

YOU COULD HAVE TALKED WITH THEM AND TOLD THEM WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO DO BEFORE YOU DID IT. THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING FROM THIS. YOU DID IT BEFORE YOU TRIED TO WORK SOMETHING OUT AND EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WERE REALLY TRYING TO DO. IF YOU'VE GOT AN ORDINANCE AND

[02:25:02]

AND THIS DECK IS GOING TO BE RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

SO I KNOW THE MOTHER HAS SOME MEDICAL PROBLEMS, FROM WHAT THE PEOPLE HAVE SAID, AND SHE WON'T BE THERE TOO MUCH LONGER, BUT I THINK SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY HER HOME WHERE SHE'S BEEN ALL THESE YEARS. SO I HOPE THIS IS APPROVED, THE APPEAL. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3? ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3? I DO NOT SEE THAT WE HAVE ANY PHONE CALLS. W CAN CONFIRM THAT.

>> OKAY. FOLLOWING OUR PROCESS --

>> JUST A SECOND. LET'S MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE

ANY PHONE CALLS, MR. VICE CHAIR. >> OKAY.

>> MAKE SURE THAT'S THE CASE. THEREFORE, PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 3, MR. VICE CHAIR.

>> UNDER OUR PROCESS, WE NOW ALLOW THE APPELLANT TO OFFER A BRIEF REBUTTAL, LESS THAN THREE MINUTES.

DO THE APPELLANTS WISH TO ADD ANY REBUTTAL HERE?

>> MY ONLY REBUTTAL IS, AGAIN IN REGARD TO THE ORIGINAL HOME, IT HADN'T BEEN CHANGED AT ALL IN ITS HEIGHT.

AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T ESCAPE NOTICE THAT THE SHED THAT ABUTS THE HOUSE AND IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE FENCE, YOU ALL KNOW THE RULES BETTER THAN I DO, BUT I BELIEVE THAT REQUIRES A SETBACK AND IS ILLEGAL. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, SIR. OKAY.

IT COMES BACK TO THE BOARD NOW, DISCUSSION, MOTIONS, COMMENTS.

>> THIS IS DISTRICT 3, ISN'T IT? >> THESE ARE THE HARDEST ONES THAT WE HAVE TO ME, NEIGHBORS HAVE ISSUES.

MR. MCCORMACK, I'VE GOT A QUESTION THROUGH VICE CHAIR.

>> YEAH. >> THE MOTIONS, ARE THEY CORRECT IN HERE? BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE TO DENY THE APPEAL, IT SAYS, THE SECOND SENTENCE SAYS AND DENYING REQUEST [INDISCERNIBLE] VARIANCE OF LAND.

AM I READING THAT -- >> MR. VICE CHAIR, THROUGH THE VICE CHAIR, COMMISSIONER WALDRON, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT DOES LOOK LIKE A TYPO IN THE SECOND LINE.

IT SHOULD BE, "AND ALLOWING THE REQUEST FOR ZONING VARIANCE."

>>OKAY. >> OR, "GRANTING."

>>COULD I ASK -- MR. VICE CHAIR, CAN I ASK MR. DELOACH A

COUPLE OF QUESTIONS? >> SURE.

>> MR. DELOACH, YOU BUILT THIS FENCE YOURSELF?

>> YES, SIR. >> AND YOU LOWERED IT A HALF A

FOOT ALREADY? >> YES, SIR.

>> THE ISSUE ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HOUSE, COULD YOU LOWER THAT MORE AND BE FINE WITH IT OR -- I KNOW THE PRIVACY IS AN ISSUE. I WOULD ASSUME YOUR BATHROOM SHOULD HAVE BY CODE A GLASS THAT CAN'T BE SEEN THROUGH A WINDOW.

>> WE HAVE GOT CURTAINS UP, YES, SIR.

BUT THERE'S THE DOOR ALSO AND SOMETIMES IN THE SUMMER, GETTING HOME FROM THE BEACH WITH MY KIDS, I'M ON THE BACK PORCH WITH THE DOOR OPEN AND THEY'RE IN THE BATHTUB PLAYING AND DOING THEIR

THING. >> RIGHT, I UNDERSTAND.

OKAY. THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE.

>> ONE THING I WILL SAY IS THAT THE FENCE DOESN'T POST A SAFETY HAZARD. IT DOESN'T OBSTRUCT THEIR VIEW OF SAFE TRAVEL ON AND OFF OF THE PROPERTY.

MY FENCE IS ONE OF AT LEAST 12 ON MY STREET THAT EXCEED THE MINIMUM HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS. SO THE PRECEDENCE HAS BEEN SET THAT THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL NEIGHBORHOOD.

AS FAR AS I BUILT MY SON A LITTLE CLUBHOUSE, THERE'S NOWHERE ON MY PROPERTY THAT I COULD COMPLY WITH SETBACKS BECAUSE OF THE SHAPE OF MY PROPERTY.

I'VE GOTTEN A VARIANCE IN THE PAST TO PUT THE ADDITION ON MY PROPERTY. I COULD NOT COMPLY WITH SETBACKS FROM THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE. SO THIS WAS THE SECOND VARIANCE FOR MY PROPERTY THAT I'VE HAD OVER THE YEARS.

AND I WON'T TAKE UP ANY MORE OF YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU. >> OKAY.

>> THANK YOU. >> YES, SIR, THANK YOU.

[02:30:06]

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

I'LL MAKE A MOTION. MOTION IS TO DENY PLANNING APPEAL 2020-05 UPHOLDING THE DECISION OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING AGENCY AND ALLOWING TO REQUEST FOR ZONING VARIANCE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SECTION 2.02.04.B.12 TO ALLOW AN 8-FOOT FENCE OR AT THIS TIME 7.5 FOOT. REQUIREMENT SPECIFICALLY LOCATED

AT 6864 MIDDLETON AVENUE. >> SECOND.

>> SECOND. >> I WANT TO MAKE ONE COMMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE HAVING THIS ISSUE BECAUSE OF HOUSES

BEING BUILT SO HIGH UP. >> SECOND.

>> MR. VICE CHAIR, IF I COULD GET A BIT OF CLARIFICATION FROM THE MOTION MAKER. COMMISSIONER WALDRON, YOU INDICATED 7.5 FOOT. WAS THAT IN REFERENCE TO THE ENTIRE FENCE OR JUST TO THE NORTH FENCE OR --

>> I WOULD -- WHATEVER HE'S TAKEN DOWN, I DON'T WANT HIM TO GO BACK AND PUT IT UP. OKAY.

JUST THE NORTH SIDE. >> AND I THINK PATRICK'S GOT AN OVERHEAD THAT I THINK WILL IDENTIFY THIS.

THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS MADE PART OF THE ORIGINAL VARIANCE. AND SO, COMMISSIONER WALDRON, IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, THEN --

>> 7.5 FOOT ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THEN THE REST --

>> RIGHT, OKAY. WE'LL HAVE THE SITE PLAN AMENDED AS WELL AS THE ORDINANCE TO REFLECT DEPENDING ON THE OUTCOME

OF THE VOTE. >> ALL RIGHT.

AND I THINK YOU HAVE -- ARE YOU OKAY WITH THE CHANGE?

>> SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND THAT THIS WILL BE 7.5-FOOT FENCE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.

OKAY. EVERYONE GOT IT? PLEASE VOTE. AND THAT PASSES 3-1.

[Items 4 & 5]

>> HI. >> HI.

>> GO AHEAD AND START? >> NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

>> JAIME MACKEY. THANKS FOR HEARING US TODAY.

MY PARTNER SHERRY AND I HAVE OWNED A BOAT STORAGE SINCE 2003.

WE OWN A PROPERTY TO THE NORTH OF THIS.

WE DEVELOPED THAT AS BOAT AND RV STORAGE.

IN 2007 -- >> IF YOU COULD PAUSE JUST FOR A

MOMENT. >> YEP.

>> YEAH, MR. CHAIR AND BOARD MEMBERS, I BELIEVE THAT ITEMS 4 AND 5 ARE GOING TO BE PRESENTED TOGETHER.

IS THAT THE INTENTION? >> YES, SIR.

>> YEAH. AND SEEING HOW ITEM 5 IS A QUASI JUDICIAL, IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION TO GO AHEAD AND DO THE EX PARTE DISCLOSURES IF ANY.

>> OKAY, LET'S BACK UP. EXCUSE US.

DO WE HAVE ANY EX PARTE ON ITEM 5?

>> NONE. >> NONE.

>> NONE. >> AND I HAVE NONE.

SO THAT TAKES CARE OF EX PARTE ON 5.

WE'LL REVERT BACK TO ITEM 4 AND TAKE UP 5.

AND I GUESS WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ANY PRESENTATION AND ANY PUBLIC COMMENT OFFERED ON BOTH 4 AND 5 TOGETHER AT THIS POINT.

>> YES, SIR. >> ALTHOUGH WE MAY VOTE

SEPARATELY I ASSUME. >> RIGHT, THEN YOU WOULD VOTE

SEPARATELY, THAT'S CORRECT. >> SO WE DEVELOPED A PROPERTY NORTH IN 2007, BEEN OPERATING THERE EVER SINCE ON THE 5 ACRES.

WE WERE ZONED COMMERCIAL AT THE TIME, HAD TO COME IN FOR A COMP PLAN CHANGE WHICH WAS APPROVED AND OFF WE WENT.

WE HAVE A CONTRACT ON THIS CONTRACT ON THIS PROPERTY WITH MS. SHERRY BELL. THAT'S WHO WE'RE REPRESENTING.

THAT'S THE OCCUPANT. WE WANT TO DO COVERED STORAGE HERE. IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A STRANGE PARCEL IN THE FACT THAT IT'S A TRIANGLE AND PRETTY SMALL BUT

[02:35:06]

MRS. BELL HAS BEEN ON THAT PROPERTY SINCE 1974.

IT WAS A WEDDING PRESENT FROM HER FATHER-IN-LAW.

SIR, A PRESENTATION, I'VE GOT ONE.

I'M JUST GOING TO -- I KNOW YOU HAVE IN YOUR PACKET AERIAL PHOTOS AND ALL THAT, I WOULD IMAGINE.

THE OVERALL AREA THERE, THERE'S ABOUT 35 OR 40-ACRE RECTANGLE BETWEEN OLD DIXIE HIGHWAY AND U.S. 1 THAT'S REALLY GOING COMMERCIAL. MOST OF IT WAS OLD ZONING AND LAND USE PLAN FROM WHEN IT WAS AGRICULTURE.

WE'RE PROPOSING TO BUILD COVERED STORAGE SPOTS TO SATISFY THE DEMAND IN THE AREA. SINCE COVID HIT, EVERYBODY BOUGHT AN RV AND BOAT AND THERE'S NO SPACE TO RENT THEM.

NOT SURE WHERE ANYBODY IS GOING AT THIS POINT.

OUR CURRENT FACILITY IS 230 SPACES.

WE'RE ONLY ASKING FOR A 14% INCREASE.

NOT MUCH ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC. NOT MUCH ACTIVITY.

THIS USE IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT REALLY THAN THE OPEN STORAGE WE HAVE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO CATER TO A DIFFERENT KIND OF CLIENTELE. EXPENSIVE RV OR A BOAT THEY WANT TO KEEP COVERED. WE DON'T HAVE COMMERCIAL GUYS.

WE HAVE CONTRACTORS, TRADES MEN, YARD GUYS.

NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY OF THAT IN THERE.

IT'S JUST STRICTLY BOAT AND RV. A LITTLE CONTEXT, WE WERE THERE BEFORE NOCATEE WAS BUILT. THEY WERE CUTTING THE PARKWAY IN WHEN WE GOT THERE. MY PARTNER AND I, OUR CELL PHONE FOR THAT BUSINESS IS ON US AT ALL TIMES, WE'VE NEVER HAD COMPLAINTS FROM THE NEIGHBORS OR SHERRY BELL WHO LIVES LITERALLY RIGHT NEXT STORE AND IT'S A GREAT SOURCE OF CUSTOMERS AS WELL. WE'RE SATISFYING A NEED FOR THEM. HERE'S THE VIEW ON ONE OF THE CUL-DE-SACS FROM GREEN LEAF VILLAGE.

NOT SURE WHY I PICKED A RAINY DAY TO DO THAT PHOTO, BUT YOU CAN'T SEE US OVER THE FENCE. THERE'S A BUFFER OWN THE GREEN LEAF SIDE, WHICH IS PART OF NOCATEE'S REQUIREMENTS.

AND WE WILL BE EXTENSIVELY LANDSCAPED AS WELL AROUND THE FRONT. WE ARE GOING TO DO A TYPE D BUFFER, SHAPED TREES. AND ON THE BACKSIDE SINCE WE BACK UP TO DIFFERING LAND USES, WE WOULD DO A TIGHT B BUFFER THERE AS WELL.

TRAFFIC WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS. A COUPLE OF CONCERNS CAME OUT WHEN WE WENT TO THE ZONING BOARD, ONE OF WHICH WAS TRAFFIC, THAT THERE'S TRAFFIC AT NIGHT. IT IS A COUNTY ROAD.

AND WE WERE TAKEN ABACK BY THAT A LITTLE BIT.

SO WE WENT BACK AND CHECKED OUR SECURITY SYSTEM.

WE HAVE A SECURITY SYSTEM THAT'S SET UP THAT WE KNOW BETWEEN 11:00 AND 6:00 AM WE GET AN ALARM WHEN SOMEONE'S COMING AND GOING IN THERE BECAUSE WE WANT TO KNOW WHO'S IN THERE AT NIGHT.

AND IT REALLY DIDN'T SUPPORT THAT CLAIM REALLY.

WE'VE GOT ABOUT -- WHAT WE LOOKED AT ON A TEN-WEEK PERIOD, WE HAD ONE PERSON A WEEK IN THERE BETWEEN 11:00 AND 6:00.

SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ADDITIONAL NIGHTTIME TRAFFIC THERE. ONE OF THE OTHER -- JUST REALLY I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A CONCERN OF NEIGHBORS OR ZONING BOARD THAT THE CI ZONING WE NEED FOR THE BOAT AND RV STORAGE OPENS UP ALL THE CI USES. AND SOME OF WHICH ARE PROBABLY NOT AS COMPATIBLE TO BEING RIGHT NEXT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO WE AGREE. WE WENT BACK AND DEFERRED IT AND AGREED AND WENT BACK AND SAID, LET'S JUST TAKE -- WE ONLY WANT TO DO BOAT AND RV. THAT'S OUR ONLY PLAN.

BUT WE TOOK THE CATEGORY FOR OFFICE AND PROFESSIONAL SERVICES OUT OF THE LAND AND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SAID WE WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THIS CATEGORY AND BOAT AND RV.

AND WE'VE STRIPPED OUT THE OBNOXIOUS CI USES.

SO THAT'S ALL I HAD. >> OKAY, ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD AT THIS POINT? ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT. PUBLIC COMMENT NOW IS ON BOTH 4

AND 5. >> I OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AGENDA ITEMS 4 AND 5. NUMBERS 4 AND 5.

[02:40:02]

MR. VICE CHAIR, PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED.

>> OKAY, IF THERE AREN'T ANY FURTHER BOARD COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

AGAIN, THIS IS IN DISTRICT 4 AND OF COURSE, DO I HAVE A MOTION ON

THIS ON 4? >> I'LL MOVE IT.

MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE 2020 --.

>> 57. >> 57 ADOPTING CPA (SS) 2020-04 BELL COVERED STORAGE A REQUEST FOR A SMALL SCAN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT TO CHANGE THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION FROM

RURAL CIVIC CULTURE. >> SECOND.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.

PLEASE VOTE. >> AND THAT PASSES 4-0.

NUMBER 5. >> MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE

2020-. >> 58.

>> 58 APPROVING BELL COVERED STO

STORAGE. >> SECOND.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE VOTE.

AND THAT PASSES 4-0. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, SIR. >> THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. NOW WE'RE READY FOR ITEM 6.

[6. Public Hearing * PUD 2020-09 Fountains East PUD.]

ITEM 6. >> LET'S DO EX PARTE.

>> IS 6 [INDISCERNIBLE]? >> YES, IT IS.

MR. SMITH. >> I HAVE NO EX PARTE DISCLOSURE

TO MAKE. >> NOR DO I.

>> MR. WALDRON? >> NONE.

>> MR. WHITEHURST. >> YES, SIR, I HAD A CONVERSATION YESTERDAY WITH BRAD WESTER AND WE DISCUSSED THE

PARKING SPACES OF THE PROPERTY. >> OKAY, THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. HELLO.

>> HIELLO. >> ITEM 6, GO AHEAD, SIR.

GOOD MORNING TO THE BOARD. BRAD WESTER, 1 INDEPENDENT DRIVE, SUITE 1200, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA.

I AM A PROFESSIONAL LAND USE PLANNER BUT I WORK FOR DRIVER MCAFEE HAWTHORNE & DIEBENOW WHICH IS A REAL ESTATE LAW FIRM.

JUST WANT TODAY DISCLOSE THAT. I'M HEAR TO REPRESENT PUD 2020-09 FOUNTAINS EAST. AND FOUNTAINS EAST -- I'M GOING TO GRAB THE POINTER REAL QUICK. FOUNTAINS EAST IS AN EXTENSION OF THE OTHER FOUNTAINS PUD DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN IN PLAY RECENTLY. I DID FOUNTAINS NORTH SEVERAL MONTHS AGO. IT WAS APPROVED.

AS YOU KNOW, ST. VINCENT'S HEALTHCARE IS GOING THERE.

AND THE FOUNTAINS UNDER DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW.

THE OWNER DEVELOPERS WITH CROSS REGIONS GROUP AND OUR CIVIL ENGINEERS SCOTT LAMB HERE AS WELL.

IF THERE'S QUESTIONS I CAN'T ANSWER, I'LL DEFER TO THEM.

GOING THROUGH THE PRESENTATION, THE SITE IS GENERALLY AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF COUNTY ROAD 210 AND I-95.

AND I WILL GO THROUGH THE SITE CHARACTER AND SPECIFICS OF THAT GENERAL AREA. THIS IS A 41.33 ACRE PUD AND WE'RE ASKING FOR AN OR TO PUD REZONING.

IT IS ONE OF THE LAST REMAINING -- I CALL IT A DONUT HOLE BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE LAST REMAINING PIECES IN THAT WHOLE AREA THAT HAS NOT BEEN REZONED TO FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.

THIS IS KNOWN AS FOUNTAINS EAST. OUR REQUEST WOULD ALLOW NEIGHBORHOOD AND GENERAL COMMERCIAL TYPE USES IN THE ZONING DISTRICTS AND FULLY INTEGRATED MIXED USE WITH HOTEL, RETAIL RESTAURANT, PROFESSIONAL, MEDICAL OFFICE, OUTPATIENT CLINIC HOSPITAL, ASSISTED LIVING AND MULTI-FAMILY.

HERE IS AN AERIAL PICTURE. SO YOU SEE THE NORTHEAST QUADRANT OF I-95 AND 210 IN THIS ENTIRE AREA AND A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT NOTABLY STICK OUT HERE.

THE TRUCK STOP AT THE CORNER OF THE INTERCHANGE AND THE CRYSTAL LAGOON AT BEACH WALK. WE ARE ESSENTIALLY RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT. THIS AREA HAS A MIXED USE LAND USE DESIGNATION. SO AS IN CONCERT WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S OUT THERE, THERE'S QUITE A DIVERSE RANGE OF USES AND SERVICES AND RESIDENTIAL. AND THEN THIS IS A GOOD REPRESENTATION. THIS IS THE ZONING MAP.

SO THIS IS A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF WHAT'S EXISTING OUT THERE NOW. AGAIN, IT'S A PRETTY CONVENTIONAL SQUARE, 41-ACRE SITE AND IT IS THE LAST REMAINING OR OPEN RURAL PIECE OUT THERE ALL SURROUNDED BY

[02:45:02]

ON THE SITE SPECIFICALLY, THE PAST HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN ALTERED SUBSTANTIALLY BY RESIDENTIAL USES, PASTURELAND, HORTICULTURE, MAN MADE PONDS, ROAD CONSTRUCTION, GRADING.

THERE IS A LARGE RURAL RESIDENTIAL COMPOUND OUT THERE FOR SEVERAL FAMILIES AND IT'S SURROUNDED BY EXISTING AND EMERGING DEVELOPMENTS AND IT AGAIN IS THE LAST REMAINING INFILL PIECE TO BE DEVELOPED OUT THERE.

THIS IS AN AERIAL AND IT IS LABELED WITH THE DIFFERENT SURROUNDING USES JUST TO GIVE IT IN CONTEXT, THE SURROUNDING CHARACTER. THE PROPERTY, IF YOU CAN SEE MY LASER POINTER, THE PROPERTY IS THERE, FOUNTAINS EAST AS WE'RE CALLING IT IN THE PUD. THE TWIN CREEKS IS TO THE NORTH OF US. THE INDUSTRIAL PARK IS THIS TRIANGLE PIECE. JUST TO OUR EAST, THE NEW TRACTOR SUPPLY, REALLY NICE-LOOKING STORE THERE, IS JUST TO OUR SOUTH. THE FOUNTAINS NORTH DEVELOPMENT IS ALONG I-95. IT'S AN L SHAPE.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE BRAND-NEW -- I'M SORRY, THE AS -- ST.

VINCENT'S HOSPITAL CAMPUS. AND IT WILL BE A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE, MEDICAL OFFICE AND RETAIL, REALLY NICE DEVELOPMENT, VERY HIGH END WITH OUTPARCEL DEVELOPMENT.

AND THE TA TRAVEL CENTER THERE IN THE CORNER.

AGAIN, FUTURE MIXED USE LAND USE.

DEVELOPMENTS IN THE AREA, TWIN CREEKS, THE INDUSTRIAL PARK, TRACTOR SUPPLY, ST. VINCENT'S HOSPITAL CAMPUS.

THE COMMERCIAL HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE DEVELOPMENTS AT 210 AND I-95. THERE IS QUITE AN INTENSE MIXTURE OF USES IN THE AREA AND IT'S CENTERED AROUND MAIN STREET AND MAIN STREET, WHICH IS I-95 AND COUNTY ROAD 210.

OUR REQUEST IS OR TO PUD. OUR DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM WILL INCLUDE UP TO 250 HOTEL ROOMS, 280,000 SQUARE FEET OF PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL OFFICE, 90,000 SQUARE FEET OF RETAIL RESTAURANT AND A 300,000 SQUARE FEET OF OUTPATIENT SURGICAL USES, 120 UNITS OF ASSISTED LIVING AND SKILLED NURSINGS AND CONDO AND APARTMENT. THIS IS OUR SITE PLAN.

AND WE ESSENTIALLY WORK AROUND WE'VE GOT ROUGHLY LESS THAN A HALF ACRE OF WETLANDS IMPACTS. MAINLY ISOLATED AND FRINGE IMPACTS. AND IT'S ALL INTEGRATED AND CONNECTED TO OTHER PUDS IN THE AREA.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT IS FRAMED WITH THIS PICTURE HERE.

SO I WILL GO OVER THIS. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL FOUNTAINS DEVELOPMENT THAT LINKS COUNTY ROADS 210.

THERE IS AN ENTRYWAY WITH A ROUNDABOUT AND FEEDS INTO THIS PROPERTY FOR THE ST. VINCENT'S HOSPITAL CAMPUS AND NORTH INTO FOUNTAINS EAST DEVELOPMENT AND THERE'S ALSO A SECONDARY TWO-LANE DIVIDED ACCESS ROAD THAT WILL ALSO FEED THE HOSPITAL CAMPUS AND BE INTEGRATED AND CONNECTED INTO OUR DEVELOPMENT AS WELL. THAT IS SOMETHING WE WORKED CLOSELY WITH TRANSPORTATION AT THE COUNTY TO COME UP WITH AN ADEQUATE SOLUTION FOR TRAFFIC FLOW AS IT'S INGRESS AND EGRESS INTO THE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR AREA.

IN A NUTSHELL THAT'S OUR DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S AN EXTENSION OF THE OTHER FOUNTAINS DEVELOPMENTS UNDERWAY.

THE WAY I LIKE TO FRAME THIS IS THE HOSPITAL CAMPUS USE, WHICH IS A VERY ROBUST CAMPUS THAT'S COMING ALONG I-95 FOR ST.

VINCENT'S, THE ORIGINAL INTENSITIES HAVE NOW BEEN PUSHED ESSENTIALLY OVER TO FOUNTAINS EAST PUD TO BE MORE RETAIL, OFFICE, AND HOTEL AND THE LIKE. AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. I BELIEVE WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY OPPOSITION WHATSOEVER ON THIS PROPERTY.

AND -- BUT WE'VE WORKED EXTENSIVELY WITH STAFF AND APPRECIATE STAFF HELPING US THROUGH THE PROCESS TO GET THIS

THROUGH IN 2020. >> IN QUESTIONS, MR. WESTER?

>> MR. WESTER, WELCOME. I KNOW WE SPOKE YESTERDAY ABOUT THE PARKING SPOT AND THE VARIANCE YOU REQUESTED FOR THE ONE TO ONE AT THE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.

WHAT'S THE PLAN FOR PARKING SHOULD THERE BE VISITORS, DELIVERY SERVICES, SCHOOL BUS FOR THE KIDS TO VISIT ELDERLY?

[02:50:04]

WHAT'S THE PLAN. >> I APPRECIATE IT.

WELCOME ABOARD. IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE.

IT'S REALLY IS. IT'S LIKE DRINKING THROUGH A FIRE HOSE BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR SECOND MEETING.

HOPEFULLY THIS IS A NON-CONTROVERSIAL ONE AND VERY GOOD FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY. THE PARKING RATIO THAT I REQUESTED, WE REQUESTED WAIVERS. ONE WAS A PARKING WAIVER ON THIS. AND THE TWO THINGS PROGRAMMED IN THAT PARKING WAIVER WERE A ONE TO ONE FOR THE ALF USES.

ANY ASSISTED LIVING AND SPECIAL CARE HOUSING USES, I REQUESTED A ONE SPACE PER UNIT RATIO. AND THAT'S IN CONCERT WITH OTHER USES THAT WERE PROGRAMMED IN THE ORIGINAL FOUNTAINS NORTH DEVELOPMENT AND THEN ONE THAT I ALSO PERSONALLY DID IN NOCATEE FOR THE STARLING GROUP, I GOT A ONE TO ONE RATIO FOR THAT ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY. COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST BROUGHT TO MY CONCERN SOME -- THERE MIGHT BE SOME ISSUES THERE WITH LACK OF PARKING. AND I WANTED TO ASSURE HIM THAT THIS IS A FULLY INTEGRATED HORIZONTALLY AND VERTICALLY DEVELOPMENT. THERE WILL BE SHARED PARKING IN THE AREA, ON STREET, INTEGRATED ACTIVITY, MULTIUSE PATHS PARKING, BUT IN ORDER TO ADDRESS YOUR CONCERN SPECIFICALLY WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT PERSONAL SPECIFICS RELATED TO FOLKS VISITING ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES, FOLKS THERE THAT MAY NOT DRIVE ANYMORE BUT LIKE LOOKING AT THEIR CAR IN THE PARKING LOT, WE GET IT 100%. MR. WHITEHURST EXPRESSED PERSONAL ELEMENTS. IF IT'S SHARED PARKING, I WANT TO PARK BUT NOT HAVE MY CAR TOWED IF SOMEBODY WASN'T REALIZING I WAS VISITING A FAMILY MEMBER.

WE GET IT 100%. WITH EVERYTHING IN LIGHT OF COVID, YOUR PERSONAL REQUEST, I WENT BACK AND IT'S JUST AN UPTICK SLIGHTLY, BUT A 1 TO 1.1 RATIO WHICH GIVES US MORE SPACES. AND I DID TALK TO THE OWNER DEVELOPER AND HE ABSOLUTELY AGREES THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL. ALF DEVELOPERS DO LIKE THE ONE TO ONE RATIO. IT GIVES MORE CANVAS TO SITE PLAN FROM. BUT WE WILL ACCOMMODATE THAT REQUEST. AND SO, I WOULD LIKE TO CONDITION THIS THAT WE ACTUALLY BUMP THAT UP A LITTLE BIT FROM A 1 TO 1 TO A 1 TO 1.1 RATIO. AND AGAIN, THAT GETS US 12 MORE SPACES FOR GUESTS AND JUST A LITTLE MORE BREATHING ROOM FOR THAT. THE OTHER REQUEST FOR WAIVERS WE ASKED FOR 1.8 FOR THE CONVENTIONAL MULTI-FAMILY.

AND SO THAT IS A REQUEST IN CONCERT WITH, AGAIN, THE TWIN CREEKS THAT HAS 1.75 RATIO FOR PARKING.

SO IF THAT'S OKAY, WE HAVE ACCOMMODATED THAT REQUEST AND I'LL WORK WITH STAFF TO MAKE THAT AMENDMENT AND ADJUSTMENT IN THE TEXT BEFORE WE GO TO ADOPTION IF WE'RE SO APPROVED

HERE. >> I APPRECIATE YOU ADDRESSING

THAT CONCERN. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> PUBLIC COMMENT ON ITEM 6? >> SHERRY BADGER, 2772 SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE. COMMISSIONER WALDRON, I DO REMEMBER YOU HEARING THIS AND YOU ASKED THEM TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT FOR MORE PARKING BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS THAT WERE RETIRED HAD THREE VEHICLES AND THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE SLIGHTING WHAT YOU ASKED THEM TO DO WHEN YOU ASKED THEM TO DO IT.

NOW THEY COME BACK WITH 1 POINT SOMETHING WHATEVER.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU DIRECTED THEM TO DO FOR PARKING.

YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A BUS SERVICE, TRAIN SERVICE, AND EVERYTHING WHERE EVERYBODY HAS PUBLIC SERVICE WHERE THEY CAN USE THAT INSTEAD OF OWNING THEIR OWN VEHICLES.

AND I KNOW IT WAS A WHILE AGO WHEN YOU DID RECOMMEND THAT, SO I'M JUST BRINGING THAT BACK TO YOUR ATTENTION.

THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 6? SEEING NONE, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN,

WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT. >> OKAY.

WE WILL NOW BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD WITH ANY COMMENTS OR

QUESTIONS. >> I DO HAVE ONE COMMENT ON IT.

IT'S BACK TO THE PARKING ON THE APARTMENTS.

IT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME THAT WE'RE NOT AT COUNTY CODE.

APARTMENTS GENERALLY ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THEY'RE A HUSBAND AND WIFE TRYING TO WORK. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TWO VEHICLES EACH AT A MINIMUM. I JUST DON'T SEE WHY WE'RE NOT GOING WITH COUNTY CODE ON THE PARKING.

I UNDERSTAND THE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.

ADDING 12 SPACES THERE MEANS A LOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE VISITORS.

I GO VISIT AT ONE, I'M PARKING 400 YARDS DOWN THE ROAD TO GET

[02:55:02]

PERSONALLY I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PARKING ON THE APARTMENTS FOR SURE. IT'S AN INFILL PROJECT.

12 MILES OF SWAMP BEING PRESERVED EAST AND NORTH OF IT.

SO IT'S DEFINITELY EVERYTHING AROUND THERE IS RESIDENTIAL COMME COMMERCIAL.

>> OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? OKAY. DO WE HAVE A MOTION ON ITEM 6?

>> YES, SIR, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN. I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION TO

ENACT ORDINANCE 2020. >> 59.

>> APPROVING PUD 2020-09 FOUNTAINS EAST BASED ON NINE FINDINGS OF FACT AS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.

>> SECOND. >> IF I MAY, COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST, WOULD YOUR MOTION INCLUDE THE 1.1 PARKING SPACES

AT THE ALF? >> YES, SIR, IF THE AMENDMENT

WOULD REFLECT THAT CHANGE, YES. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND AS AMENDED.

MAY WE PLEASE VOTE? AND THAT PASSES 3-1.

THANK YOU, MR. WESTER. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[7. Public Hearing * MAJMOD 2020-04 Old Moultrie Bluff PUD.]

>> OKAY, ITEM 7. IS THAT AN EX PARTE?

>> YES, SIR. >> ITEM 7, OKAY, COMMISSIONER

SMITH, EX PARTE? >> NONE.

>> I HAD NONE. COMMISSIONER WALDRON?

>> NONE. >> COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST?

>> NONE. >> FOR 7, I THINK I SEE THE APPLICANT OR SOMETHING THAT LOOKS SIMILAR TO AN APPLICANT.

>> WELL, I SOMETIMES TRY TO APPEAR AS AN APPLICANT.

I APPRECIATE THE RECOGNITION. ELLEN AVERY-SMITH, ROGERS T TOWERS. HANG ON ONE MINUTE.

WE ALL PICK THE PODIUMS FROM WHICH WE LIKE TO PRESENT.

SO MR. WESTER LIKES THAT SIDE. I LIKE THIS SIDE.

SO TO MOVE FORWARD, I AM HERE TODAY ON A PUD MAJOR MODIFICATION APPLICATION. THE PROPERTY OWNER FOR THE SITE THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES IS OLD MOULTRIE COMMONS LLC. JUST TO GIVE AN ORIENTATION OF THE SITE, HERE'S OLD MOULTRIE ROAD, U.S. 1 AND AN INFILL SITE AMONG RESIDENTIAL IN THIS AREA AND THERE'S SOME CAR DEALERSHIPS AND COMMERCIAL ALONG U.S. 1 AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS WETLAND THAT SITS RIGHT HERE IN A MINUTE.

FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF THE PROPERTY IS MIXED USE DISTRICT. AND THEN THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY IS PUD. A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY, THE PROPERTY WAS ACTUALLY REZONED TO PUD IN 2007.

THEN THE INFAMOUS DOWNTURN CAME AND THE PROPERTY WAS NEVER FULLY DEVELOPED. THERE IS INFRASTRUCTURE OUT THERE. THERE ARE UTILITY LINES IN THE GROUND. THERE IS SOME ROADWORK THAT'S BEEN DONE. THERE'S BEEN SOME HORIZONTAL IMPROVEMENT BUT NOT VERTICAL IMPROVEMENT.

THE IDEA IS TO I'M GOING TO CALL IT TO REVISE THE PUD, TO UPDATE IT, AND BECAUSE IT'S EXPIRED RIGHT NOW, TO INCLUDE 119 TOWN HOMES INSTEAD THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED 119 CONDOMINIUM UNITS, TO RETAIN THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT FOOTPRINT.

SO AGAIN, THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS SOMEWHAT THERE, SO RETAIN THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND THEN REVIVE THE PUD AND EXTEND THE PROJECT COMMENCEMENT AND COMPLETION DATES AS ARE SET FORTH IN THE TEXT.

YOU CAN SEE THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN HERE.

SO THE ENTRY IS FROM OLD MOULTRIE.

THERE'S ONE ENTRANCE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC -- AND I KNOW COMMISSIONER WALDRON IS ALWAYS INTERESTED IN TRAFFIC ON HIS DISTRICT. THE PUD TEXT SAYS THIS INTEKS AND AREA WILL BE STUDIED AND IF NEEDED THEY WILL BE CONSTRUCTED.

AND YOU SEE THE LAYOUT OF THE TOWN HOME UNITS.

AGAIN, THE 119 UNITS IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT.

SAN SEBASTIAN. THERE ARE COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES ALONG U.S.1. THIS WETLAND AND THE POND PROVIDE A GOOD BUFFER BETWEEN

[03:00:04]

AND MR. BLANCHARD IS HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT I CANNOT.

>> ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY.

WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT. >> I'LL ENTERTAIN PUBLIC COMMENT ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 7.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. >> YOU ARE CORRECT, COMMISSIONER SMITH.

IT IS 12 NOON. I'M IN THE CITY IN CASE ANYONE DOESN'T KNOW THAT.

NOW WE HAD A DOWNTURN. NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS MAJOR MOD AND I DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TOWNHOUSE AND A CONDOMINIUM. I GUESS THE MONEY SITUATION, WHO OWNS IT AND WHO DOESN'T OWN IT. I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO READ THIS.

YOU WERE CLOSED FOR TURKEY DAY. SO MY QUESTION IS, THE DEVELOPER CAN EXPLAIN, UM, WE'RE GOING TO EXTEND THE PROJECT COMMENCEMENT. DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE COMMENCING TODAY, 2020.

THE COMPLETION DATES. CAN YOU PUT IT ON THE RECORD, PLEASE, FOR US TO KNOW.

IF WE HAVE IN THE DOWNTURN THEY NEED TO DEVELOP THIS LAND. WE HAVE TO WAIT AROUND UNTIL IT'S BEEN OFFICIAL TO THE DEVELOPERS. SO THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY QUESTION. IF WE PUT MORE DATES ON THIS NOW AND WE HAVE A DOWNTURN, WE HAVE TO WEAR ALL THESE MASKS. WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG WE WILL BE WEARING THOSE.

I DON'T KNOW. WALKING THROUGH THOSE THINGS. WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS CALLED? WE NEED TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT IS GOING ON TO SPEAK. BUT IT'S FOR OUR SAFETY, SO THAT'S GOOD. SO EXTENDING THE PROJECT COMMENCEMENT AND COMPLETION DATES. IF WE COULD HAVE THAT FROM YOU ALL OR FOR SOMEONE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, WE TRULY WOULD APPRECIATE IT. I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE ALL THE LAST MINUTE I HAVE.

>> MR. VICE CHAIRMAN, WHILE WE WAIT, I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE TIMING AND COMMENCEMENT, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT WITH YOU. THE LANGUAGE OF THE MASTER DEVELOP PLAN TEXT PROVIDES A ONE 10-YEAR PHASE WITH THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS AND ASSOCIATED FACILITIES BEING COMMENCED WITHIN THREE YEARS OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS MAJOR MODIFICATION, COMMENCEMENT MEANS SECURING APPROVED CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS AND COMPLETION AS DEFINED AS THE INSTALLATION OF HORIZONTAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND ST. JOHNS COUNTY APPROVAL OF

AS-BUILT PLANS. >> THANK YOU. >> WHILE WE'RE WAITING, JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS, IT'S MY INTENT, UNLESS THE BOARD CHOOSES TO DO OTHERWISE, TO WORK THROUGH THIS AGENDA. AFTER THIS, WE ONLY HAVE TWO ITEMS. MY PLAN WAS TO WORK THROUGH THE AGENDA AND BE DONE, OPPOSED TO A LENGTHY LUNCH BREAK NOW.

[03:08:53]

TO GET IT THROUGH. >> OKAY. TOM REYNOLDS, ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA. I URGE THE COMMISSION TO VOTE YES.

THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. I LOVE THIS WHOLE PRESENTATION, EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.

SO I URGE THE COMMISSION TO VOTE YES ON THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU.

>> THANKS, TOM. >> WITH NO OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT, PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED ON

AGENT ITEM NUMBER 7. >> ARE WE READY TO VOTE? ANY OTHER COMMENTS? IS THERE A MOTION. I WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT FIRST. I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE REVIVING A PUD AND STAYING WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF UNITS INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR MR. -- MORE DENSITY. MAJOR MOD 2020-04. BASED ON SIX FINDINGS OF FACT.

[03:10:06]

>> SECOND. ALL RIGHT. A MOTION AND SECOND.

PLEASE VOTE. AND THAT PASSES 4-0. WE GO TO ITEM 8.

[8. Public Hearing * MAJMOD 2020-06 Elevation Pointe at Anderson Park PUD.]

>> THE CHAIR: ITEM 8. MAJOR MOD, NOW CALLED ELEVATION POINTE, WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY CALLED ANDERSON PARK.

>> AND MR. VICE-CHAIR -- >> IS THIS EX PARTE? >> YES, SIR.

I DO HAVE A DISCLOSURE. I'VE MET ON NOVEMBER 19TH AT 12:30 WITH MISS KATHRYN WHITTINGOTN, MR. MIKE RICH, MR. BILL SCHULTZ AND MR. MIKE ROBERSON ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM. WE WENT THROUGH THE HISTORY OF IT.

WE WENT THROUGH THE EXPIRATION OF 2016, THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL COMPARED TO WHAT IS BEING REQUESTED, DISCUSSED A 70-FOOT BUFFER AT GRAY HAWK AND THE TOWN HOLMES THERE, THE ROAD, DISCUSSED TRAFFIC AND I LOOK FOR -- THERE'S AN 18% REDUCTION IN THAT IN COMPARISON TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS. ONE 10-YEAR PHASE. WE DISCUSSED THE PORTION OF TOMS ROAD THAT'S PRIVATELY OWNED AND THE FOUR-WAY IN OUR BACKUP MATERIAL.

>> MY MEETING WAS ON NOVEMBER 16TH WITH KATHRYN WHITTINGOTN, BILL SCHILLING AND DISCUSSED THE SAME ISSUES COMMISSIONER SMITH OUTLINED. I HAD A MEETING THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 19TH AT 12 P.M. WITH MS. KATHRYN WHITTINGOTN, MR. RICH AND MR. SCHILLING.

WE DISCUSSED THE PROJECT, SIMILAR TO WHAT COMMISSIONER SMITH DID, DISCUSSED TRAFFIC FLOW ON 208 WITH A NEW ROAD. TOMS ROAD. THE FACT IT WAS STILL PRIVATELY OWNED, PART OF IT. WE ALSO DISCUSSED THE KFC AND OTHER BUSINESSES THERE THAT

MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THE CHANGES, AND THAT'S IT. >> YES, SIR.

YESTERDAY, NOVEMBER 30TH AT 10 A.M., I HAD A MEETING WITH KATHRYN WHITTINGOTN, MICHAEL RICH AND BILL COUNSELLING WHERE WE DISCUSSED TRAFFIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT TO THE WAIVER THAT WOULD ALLOW ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES TO BE SOLD CLOSE TO THE CHURCH.

>> MY NAME IS KATHRYN WHITTINGOTN, 236 SAN MARCOS AVENUE HERE REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT ELEVATION DEVELOPMENT LLC WITH ME IS MIKE RICH AND BILL SCHILLING, THE TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER AND PLANNER, ALSO THE CIVIL ENGINEER FOR THE PROJECT.

JUSTIN KELLY DID A REALLY GREAT JOB ON THE STAFF REPORT. I KNOW IT'S LEADING INTO THE LUNCH HOUR, SO WE WILL TRY TO BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE. I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT BEFORE YOU ON DECEMBER 15TH, FOR THIS PROJECT, WILL BE COMING AN APPLICATION.

IT WILL BE UNDER THE NAME -- THE PREVIOUS NAME THAT THIS APPLICATION WAS UNDER WHICH IS PREMIUM POINTE. THAT WILL BE AMENDED ASSUMING AND HOPING WE GET APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT AND THE CDD LATER ON. THE NAME WILL BE CHANGED TO ELEVATION. PREMIUM POINTE, THE OUTLET MALL OWNERS, ASKED US TO CHANGE THE NAME SO THERE WOULD BE NO CONFUSION BETWEEN THEM AND WE AGREED TO DO THAT.

ABOUT ELEVATION AS A WAY OF INTRODUCTION TO THE DEVELOPER, UM, THEY'RE A LEADING REAL ESTATE ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT FIRM SPECIALIZE ING IN DEVELOPMENT OF PROJECTS RANGING FROM COMMERCIAL RETAIL, SINGLE-FAMILY, TOWNHOME, MULTI-FAMILY PROJECTS IN SEVERAL FLORIDA COUNTIES. THESE ARE SOME REPRESENTATIVE PROJECTS THAT ELEVATION HAS COMPLETED OR THEY'RE CURRENTLY WORKING ON. THIS IS A CVS IN KISSIMMEE THAT'S BEEN COMPLETED AND AUTOZONE AND CARE NOW CLINIC IN SANFORD.

THIS IS ARIA, APARTMENT PROJECT IN BRADENTON. THIS IS THEIR PROJECT CALLED INFIELD IN KISSIMMEE THAT IS STARTING CONSTRUCTION I BELIEVE THIS MONTH.

THIS IS WHERE WE ARE IN THE WORLD. THIS AERIAL SHOWS WHERE THE PROJECT IS LOCATED. IT'S BETWEEN STATE ROAD 16 AND COUNTY ROAD 208, WEST OF TOMS

[03:15:03]

HERE IS THE ZONING MAP. YOU CAN SEE IT'S ALREADY ZONED PUD, ALBEIT THAT'S AN EXPIRED PUD I BELIEVE IN 2016. THIS IS AN INTERESTING SLIDE SHOWING ALL THE SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENT. UM, IT REALLY DEMONSTRATES THAT THIS IS CLASSIC INFILL DEVELOPMENTS, THE PROVERBIAL HOLE IN THE DOUGHNUT. SO BY DEFINITION DOES NOT PROMOTE URBAN SPRAWL. THEY HAVE REDESIGNED THIS PROJECT AND EMPLOYED WHAT'S KNOWN AS SMART GROWTH/MIXED-USE PLANNING PRINCIPLES THAT ARE CODIFIED IN THE COMP PLAN UNDER POLICY INTENDED THAT THE HIGHEST LAND USE INTENSITIES OCCUR AT THE CENTER OF THE MIXED-USE DISTRICT WITH DECREASING INTENSITY OF USES PROCEEDING OUTWARD.

HERE'S A DEMONSTRATION OF IT. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE HIGHER INTENSITY IN THE DEEP PURPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF I-95 AND GRADUATING DOWN TO MEDIUM PURPLE WITH MULTI-FAMILY AND TOWNHOME USES AND THEN GRADUATING DOWN AGAIN AS YOU GO OUTWARD FROM THE NODE TO SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. THE ANDERSON PARK PUD WAS AND WILL BE, IF THIS IS APPROVED, A MIXED-USE PROJECT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED WITH DEVELOPMENT TOTALS YOU SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE IN ORANGE. THAT'S 670,000 SQUARE FEET OF INDUSTRIAL USE, 30,000 OF OFFICE USE, 317,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL RETAIL SERVICE AND 120 MULTI-FAMILY UNITS.

ONLY 6,632 SQUARE FEET HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THAT WAFFLE HOUSE AND THE RACETRACK GAS STATION, AND THE HOTEL SITES NOT BUILT BUT CURRENTLY ACTIVE ON SEVEN ACRES, LEAVING 340,368 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE PLUS THE 670,000 SQUARE FEET OF INDUSTRIAL REMAINING.

NOW, ON THE RIGHT IS THE NEW PROPOSED PLAN THAT'S FAR LESS INTENSE AND DENSE THAN WHAT WAS APPROVED IN 1996. AND, AS I MENTIONED, THAT EXPIRED IN 2016.

WE'RE NOT HERE ASKING TO RE-UP THE ORIGINAL PLAN. AND EXTEND THE PHASING AND THE BUILTOUT. 190,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL RETAIL SERVICE OFFICE, 240 HOTEL ROOMS, 320 MULTI-USE -- MULTI-FAMILY USE -- THAT SHOULD SAY UNITS, AND 430 TOWN HOLMES. -- TOWNHOMES. SO IN COMPARISON TO THE PROPOSED INTENSITIES AND DENSITIES WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. FOR THE NON-RESIDENTIAL, THE PLAN, THE PROPOSAL IS FOR RATIO OF ABOUT 35%. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND COMP PLAN ALLOW A FLOOR AREA RATIO OF 70%. IT'S MORE OR LESS ONLY 50% OF WHAT'S ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY. FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, THE PROPOSED DENSITY IS 8.3 UNITS PER ACRE AND THAT IS VERSUS WHAT'S ALLOWABLE ON IT, WHICH WOULD BE 13 UNITS PER ACRE.

IT'S PLUS OR MINUS 64% OF THE ALLOWED DENSITY. THAT EQUATES TO 750 UNITS PROPOSED VERSUS 1064 ALLOWABLE. HERE'S THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN 1996.

THE FOUR RED PARCELS HERE, HERE, HERE, AND HERE WERE THE INDUSTRIAL PARCELLS.

THE PINK ALONG STATE ROAD 16 HERE WAS THE NON-RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL PARCELLS AND THE MULTI-FAMILY SITE WAS RIGHT HERE. NOW, YOU CAN SEE THE NEW PLAN PROPOSED, ZOOMING OUT SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS ADJACENT TO IT. COMMERCIAL HERE, AS IT WAS.

[03:20:05]

AND THEN THE TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT HERE. AND THIS IS COUNTY ROAD 208 AND THE APPLICANT IS COMMITTING TO CONSTRUCTING A REALIGNMENT OF COUNTY ROAD 208 TO INTERSECT WITH STATE ROUTE 16 AT ITS WESTERLY ENTRANCE TO THE OUTLET MALL, WHICH WILL BE SIGNALIZED.

THIS -- THIS SHOWS THEM SIDE BY SIDE. LET'S SEE IF THIS WORKS.

OKAY. SO A COMPARISON OF WHAT WAS AND WHAT IS NOW.

THESE ARE THE APARTMENTS. YOU SEE THIS CIRCLE, THE CIRCLE AROUND BOTH.

THAT'S THE SAME PARCEL. THIS WAS INDUSTRIAL. NOW MULTI-FAMILY ADJACENT TO WHISPER RIDGE AND THIS IS G GRAYHAWK, SINGLE-FAMILY PROJECTS.

OKAY. THERE'S THE POND. AND ITS CORRESPONDING PARCEL WAS LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, NOW IT'S A POND, ADJACENT TO WHISPER RIDGE RESIDENTIAL RIGHT HERE.

THIS WAS THE MULTI-FAMILY SITE AND IT STILL IS. IT'S TOWNHOME.

ALONG WITH THIS TOWNHOME SITE, WHICH WAS ANOTHER INDUSTRIAL PARCEL.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE COMMERCIAL IS STILL THE SAME. NOW I'M GOING TO ASK BILL SCHILLING TO COME UP. HE'S RIGHT BEHIND ME. HE WILL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE

PROJECT DETAILS AND TRANSPORTATION. >> THANK YOU, KATHERINE.

I'M BILL SCHILLING. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. I'M A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, LICENSED IN FLORIDA, AND, AS KATHRYN SAID, I WANTED TO TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO WALK THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU TODAY.

SO, STARTING OFF ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL SIDE, I WANT TO POINT OUT THE BENEFITS OF THE AMOUNT OF OPEN SPACE THAT IS PROPOSED AS A PART OF THIS PROJECT.

OVER 50% OF THE SITE IS GOING TO BE PRESERVED, ROUGHLY 54% VERSUS 25% REQUIRED BY THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. UM, AS -- AS CAN BE SEEN, WE DO HAVE A VERY LARGE CENTRAL WETLAND THAT ROUGHLY THAT'S 79 ACRES OF OUR OPEN SPACE. SO THAT 79ACRES THAT IS SHOWN IN GREEN IS GOING TO BE PRESERVED AS OPEN SPACE. AGAIN, IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE, WE DO HAVE A 35-FOOT DEVELOPMENT EDGE. WE'RE COMPLYING WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS. WE'RE ALSO COMPLYING WITH THE 75-FOOT AVERAGE SCENIC EDGE REQUIREMENTS ALONG OUR ARTERIALS AND MAJOR COLLECTORS WHICH INCLUDE STATE ROUTE 16, COUNTY ROUTE 208 AND REALIGNED COUNTY ROAD 208. I THINK AS KATHRYN TOUCHED ON, WE BELIEVE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AS NOW PROPOSED IS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER WHEN IT COMES TOP COMPATIBILITY TO OUR SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORS TO THE WEST, WHISPER RIDGE AND GRAYHAWK AS, ONE, WE BELIEVE THE REMOVAL OF THESE INDUSTRIAL USES AND EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING POND ON OUR UPLAND AREA HERE IS A MUCH BETTER USE ADJACENT TO THE SINGLE-FAMILY, AS WELL AS THE APARTMENT USE VERSUS THE INDUSTRIAL USE THAT WAS HERE BEFORE.

WHERE WE HAVE THE TOWNHOME USE, WHICH WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PROPOSED PREVIOUSLY, WE HAVE BETWEEN THE DEVELOPMENT EDGE ON THE GRAYHAWK SIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE AND 35 FEET PROPOSED ON OUR SIDE WE HAVE A 75-FOOT BUFFER THAT WILL BE THERE, AS WELL AS A PART OF THE PUD WE'RE COMMITTING TO A 20B BUFFER, WHICH HAS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF A 75% SCREENING OPACITY. SO, TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE, AND THIS IS GRAYHAWK, TODAY, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE, THERE'S A FAIRLY SIMILAR SITUATION BETWEEN GRAYHAWK AND

[03:25:02]

I'LL TALK A MINUTE ABOUT CONCURRENCY. I KNOW THIS SLIDE IS FOCUSED ON TRAFFIC. I WANTED TO MENTION SCHOOLS REALLY QUICKLY.

WE HAVE HAD THE SCHOOL DISTRICT REVIEW OUR APPLICATION FOR SCHOOL CONCURRENCY.

I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THERE ARE ELEMENTARY AND MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT STATIONS AVAILABLE TO MEET THE NEED OF THIS PROJECT. THERE IS A SHORTFALL ON HIGH SCHOOL, SO WE WILL BE MITIGATING THROUGH THE COUNTY'S PROPORTIONATE SHARE PROCESS FOR THE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

WE HAVE SUBMITTED OUR CONCURRENCY APPLICATION FOR TRAFFIC.

WE'VE BEEN THROUGH OUR INITIAL REVIEW. THERE ARE ROADWAY SEGMENTS THAT ARE DEFICIENT THAT WE ARE IMPACTING, SO WE WILL BE PROVIDING A PROPORTIONATE SHARE MITIGATION AGREEMENT TO PAY FOR PROPORTIONATE SHARE MITIGATION FOR THOSE TRIPS THAT WE PUT ON FAILING AND DEFICIENT LINKS. IN THIS CASE, WITH THIS PROJECT, WE ARE ACTUALLY PROPOSING, AS MITIGATION, UM, IN LIEU OF A FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTION, WE ARE PREPARING THE REALIGNMENT OF COUNTY ROAD 208. I THINK WE HAVE THAT ANIMATED. SO, TODAY 208 RUNS EAST-WEST AND TIES IN AT STATE ROUTE 16 AT AN UNSIGNALIZED INTERSECTION. WE'RE PROPOSING TO REALIGN COUNTY ROAD 208 TO A NEW INTERSECTION ALIGNED WITH THE WESTERN ENTRANCE TO THE OUTLET MALL. I DO WANT TO ASSURE EVERYONE THAT THE EXISTING SEGMENT OF 208 BETWEEN THE REALIGNED 208 AND STATE ROUTE 16 WILL REMAIN IN PLACE FOR THOSE RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FRONTING THAT ROAD, SO THERE WILL STILL BE THAT ROAD FOR ACCESS.

AND THEN, AS WELL, WE'RE PROPOSING, AND THE APPLICANT HAS COMMITTED TO SIGNALIZING, INSTALLING A NEW SIGNAL AT WHAT WILL BECOME A MAJOR INTERSECTION AT COUNTY ROAD 208 AND THE OUTLET MALL. THE COST AND MITIGATION THAT'S PROPOSED AS PART OF THIS REALIGNMENT IN THE INSTALLATION OF THE SIGNALIZATION WILL SIGNIFICANTLY EXCEED THE PROPORTIONATE FAIR SHARE MITIGATION AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE DUE THROUGH THE COUNTY'S

CONCURRENCY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. >>> A COUPLE OF THINGS TO HIT ON REAL QUICKLY, JUST TALKING ABOUT MODELING. I KNOW THAT FROM A CONCURRENCY STANDPOINT WE SPEND A GOOD BIT OF TIME LOOKING AT THE IMPACTS OF THE NEW RESIDENTIAL UNITS. WHAT OUR TRAFFIC MODELING HAS SHOWN US IS THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR TRAFFIC FROM THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS TRAVELS TO AND FROM THE EAST TOWARDS THE INTERSTATE AND TOWARDS ST. AUGUSTINE.

SO, ONLY ROUGHLY 10% OF OUR RESIDENTIAL PROJECT TRAFFIC WILL TRAVEL TO THE WEST ON STATE ROUTE 16. ROUGHLY, THE OTHER 90% HEADS TO THE EAST AND NORTH AND SOUTH ON I-95. WE RECOGNIZE AND WE BELIEVE THAT THE COUNTY AND COUNTY STAFF AND I KNOW COUNTY STAFF -- TRANSPORTATION STAFF ARE HERE TODAY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL MAY HAVE, BUT ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE 208 REALIGNMENT AND SEE IT AS PART OF THE SOLUTION FOR SOME OF THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION ISSUES THAT ARE OCCURRING IN THE INTERCHANGE AREA WITH STATE ROUTE 16 AND THE 208 INTERSECTION WITH THE COUNTY ROAD 208 INTERSECTION NOT ABLE TO BE SIGNALIZED BECAUSE IT IS SO CLOSE TO THE INTERCHANGE TODAY AND THE INTERCHANGE RAMPS.

BUT REALIGNING 208 WE SOLVE THAT PROBLEM AND A NEW INTERSECTION TO ALLOW TRAFFIC TO GET ON TO AND OFF OF STATE ROAD 16 FOR 208 MOTORISTS. I KNOW IT WAS REFERENCED, SO WE TOOK A LOOK AT AND, AGAIN, A COUPLE OF ITEMS WE SEE AS POSITIVES HERE, AND COMPARED THE USES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AS PART OF THE PRIOR PUD AND WHAT'S CURRENTLY APPROVED. AND FROM A PEAK HOUR, A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT, FROM A PEAK-HOUR

[03:30:04]

I KNOW THAT I ALSO QUICKLY -- THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT DAILY OVER THE COURSE OF THE FULL DAY.

I RAN THOSE NUMBERS REAL QUICKLY. IT ALSO REPRESENTS ROUGHLY A 6% REDUCTION IN DAILY TRIPS OVER THE COURSE OF AN ENTIRE DAY. A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS TO MENTION THAT'S ALSO A POSITIVE. CERTAINLY WITH THE INDUSTRIAL USES THAT ARE GOING AWAY, THOSE USES GENERATE TYPICALLY MUCH HEAVIER TRAFFIC, TRUCK TRAFFIC THAT WE SEE AS BENEFIT WITH THIS PROPOSAL IS IT WILL GENERATE FAR FEWER TRUCKS AND HEAVY VEHICLES ON STATE ROUTE 16 AND IN THE INTERCHANGE AREA. FINALLY, AS WELL, THE D.O.T. HAS PROGRAMMED SOME SIGNIFICANT DOLLARS IN THEIR FIVE-YEAR WORK PROGRAM FOR THE STATE ROAD 16/208/TOMS ROAD AREA BEGINNING IN 2021, THE D.O.T. HAS ROUGHLY $11 MILLION PROGRAMMED FOR L LANEAGE IMPROVEMENTS AND ROUGHLY 3.5 MILLION EARMARKED FOR IMPROVEMENTS AT THE TOMS ROAD INTERSECTION AND COUNTY ROAD 208. I RECOGNIZE THE D.O.T. RIGHT NOW IS STILL STUDYING EXACTLY WHAT THOSE IMPROVEMENTS MIGHT LOOK LIKE. HOWEVER, THIS PROJECT AND THE REALIGNMENT OF 208 IS A CRITICAL PIECE OF PUZZLE OF THE OVERALL SOLUTION FOR IMPROVING TRAFFIC IN THIS OVERALL INTERCHANGE AREA. ALL RIGHT.

SO I'LL HIT REAL QUICKLY ON THE WAIVERS. THERE ARE FOUR WAIVERS THAT WE ARE REQUESTING AS A PART OF THE PUD, AND I'LL HIT THE FIRST ONE REAL QUICKLY WHICH IS THE SALE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES. WHILE WE DO NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC USER, THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT WITHIN OUR PINK RETAIL AREAS, WE COULD HAVE ALCOHOL -- PACKAGED ALCOHOL SALES.

THIS PARCEL IS -- CONTAINS A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION, WHICH IS 500 FEET TO OUR NEAREST COMMERCIAL RETAIL PARCEL THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE PACKAGE SALES.

SO OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION WE ARE ASKING FOR THIS WAIVER, AND, IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE ROUGHLY A 500-FOOT SPACING RATHER THAN A THOUSAND-FOOD.

WE ALSO DO SEE IT AS A POSITIVE THEY'RE SEPARATED BY STATE ROUTE 16 AND THE RIGHT-OF-WAY.

WE'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER FOR OUR CORNER LOTS ON OUR TOWNHOMES.

RATHER THAN FOR THOSE CORNER LOTS, THEM HAVING TO HAVE TWO FRONT YARD SETBACKS, WE'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER SUCH THAT THE SETBACK FOR THE SECOND FRONT YARD OR THE FRONT YARD THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE DRIVEWAY, BE ALLOWED THE SIDE YARD SETBACK OF 10 FEET.

I'LL JUMP TO THE FOURTH ONE. THE FOURTH ONE ALSO WHICH IS ONE THAT IS FAIRLY COMMON, WE'RE ASKING THAT, SINCE MANY OF OUR RETAIL PARCELS AREN'T FULLY PLANNED YET, WE MAY NEED TO TWEAK THE LOCATIONS OF SOME OF OUR DRIVEWAYS. WE ARE ASKING IF WE DO NEED TO SHIFT A DRIVEWAY LOCATION, THAT THAT BE ALLOWED VIA STAFF APPROVAL RATHER THAN A MINOR OR MAJOR MOD PROCESS. BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO CONNECTION ON 208.

WE UNDERSTAND STAFF VERY MUCH WANTS THAT TO ALIGN WITH THE OUTLET MALL WESTERN ENTRANCE SO THAT WAIVER SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES THAT ACCESS CONNECTION. THEN, FINALLY, THE LAST WAIVER IS RELATED TO SIGNAGE. WE HAVE OVER TWO MILES OF ROAD FRONTAGE AND WE ARE REQUESTING A WAIVER TO HAVE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE PER THE LDC. WE WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED FOUR GROUND-MOUNTED SIGNS, UM, PLUS THE ENTRY SIGN. SO THIS EXHIBIT SHOWS THE SIGNS THAT ARE ALLOWED BY CODE. WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR ANY WAIVERS RELATED TO SIZE OR HEIGHT OF THE SIGNS, JUST THE NUMBER, BUT WE ARE ASKING THAT EACH OF THE OUT PARCELS UP ALONG STATE ROUTE 16 HAVE THE ABILITY TO EACH HAVE THEIR OWN OUT PARCEL, GROUND-MOUNTED MONUMENT SIGN. WE HAVE PUT ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON THESE SIGNS SO THEY WOULD BE SMALLER THAN THE CODE ALLOWS, SO THE SIGNS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE TALLER THAN EIGHT FEET WHICH IS LESS THAN WHAT THE CODE ALLOWS FOR OUT PARCELS GREATER THAN AN ACRE,

[03:35:04]

SO THE BENEFITS THAT WE SEE, WE SEE A SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT IS THE REMOVAL OF 68 ACRES OF INDUSTRIAL USES ADJACENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL WHISPER RIDGE AND GRAYHAWK SUBDIVISIONS ADJACENT TO US. MUCH OF THAT INDUSTRIAL SPACE IS REPLACED WITH A POND RIGHT ADJACENT TO THOSE USES. WE'RE PRESERVING ROUGHLY 54% OF THE PROJECT IN OPEN SPACE, WE'RE EMPLOYING THE SMART GROWTH PRINCIPLES AND POLICIES THAT ARE OUTLINED IN THE COUNTY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE ARE LOCATING OUR NON-RESIDENTIAL USES ALONG STATE ROUTE 16, RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE OUTLET MALL. UM, CERTAINLY THE REALIGNMENT OF 208 AND STATE ROUTE 16 NOT ONLY PROVIDES IMPROVED ACCESS FOR 208 AND THE RESIDENTS ON 208 BUT ALSO FOR THE OUTLET MALL. THIS WILL PROVIDE A NEW SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION FOR THE OUTLET MALL AND HOPEFULLY RELIEVE SOME OF THAT OUTLET MALL TRAFFIC AT TOMS ROAD, AT THAT INTERSECTION. THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL MENTION REAL QUICKLY, NOT TO OVERLOOK IT IS, AS A PART OF THE PROJECT, WE'VE BEEN COORDINATING WITH THE UTILITY DEPARTMENT, WATER AND SEWER SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE PROJECT. BUT AS A PART OF THE PROJECT, WE'VE BEEN ASKED BY THE UTILITY DEPARTMENT TO UPGRADE ROUGHLY A MILE ALONG STATE ROUTE 16 AND THE APPLICANT HAS COMMITTED TO THAT AND NOT ONLY WILL BE BRINGING REUSE TO THIS PROJECT AND USING REUSED WATER BUT WILL BE UPGRADING THAT LINE ALONG STATE ROUTE 16 FOR OTHER USERS

IN THE AREA AS WELL. >> BILL, IF I MIGHT JUST SUMMARIZE HERE, FINALLY, THIS PROJECT COMPLIES WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS FAR LESS DENSE AND INTENSE THAN WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY.

THE STAFF HAS NO OBJECTIONS TO THE PROJECT OR THE WAIVERS, AND WE HAVE PZA RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL. THANK YOU. AS BILL SAID, WE'RE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS. I HAVE ONE QUESTION, AND THERE MAY BE OTHERS FROM THE COMMISSION, BUT, MR. SCHILLING, CAN YOU SORT OF ZERO IN ON THE 208 REALIGNMENT OFF 208.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DESIGN FOR THAT. >> SO --

>> THAT RIGHT THERE. >> YES, SIR. I MEAN, WHERE THE REALIGNMENT TURNS LEFT AND HEADS UP TO 16 -- BACK, BACK. RIGHT THERE.

THAT LOOKS LIKE A BIT OF A CONFUSING -- THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE CONFUSING TO ME RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE COMING FROM THE WEST ON 208 HEADED EAST TO INTERSECTION 16, WILL YOU HAVE TO SORT OF TURN LEFT AND THEN TAKE A RIGHT ON THAT JOG? OR IS THERE GOING TO BE A STRAIGHT-THROUGH HIGHWAY THERE? YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?

>> YES, SIR. >> RIGHT THERE. >> I THINK I DO.

>> DO YOU HAVE PLANS FOR THAT? >> SO, WE'RE NOT SO FAR ALONG THAT WE HAVE PLANS BUT I'LL SHARE WHAT WE'RE INTENDING. WE'RE INTENDING THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BECOME A "T" INTERSECTION AND 208 TURNING UP TO 16 WOULD BE THE MAIN ROUTE.

SO, IF YOU ARE TRAVELING ON 208, ESSENTIALLY YOU WOULD HAVE UNOBSTRUCTED TRAVEL ON UP TO STATE ROUTE 16. IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE OLD 208 INTERSECTION, YOU'D HAVE TO MAKE

A RIGHT-HAND TO COME THIS DIRECTION. >> I'M FINE WITH THAT.

I MEAN, IT COULD GET KIND OF CONFUSING IF YOU'RE WANTING TO CONTINUE ON OR MAKE A LEFT, IF THERE'S TRAFFIC COMING FROM THE EAST ON 208 AND YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT TURN ON TO THE

[03:40:03]

THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION. ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SMITH?

>> YES. THERE'S A LOT THAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS PROJECT, BUT I THINK THE MAIN CONCERN, AND I VOICED THAT YESTERDAY, WAS THE TRAFFIC. WILL THE 208 REALIGNMENT TAKE CARE OF THE TRAFFIC, 90% OF WHICH YOU ESTIMATE WILL BE HEADING EAST ON 16.

WILL THERE BE ENOUGH WITH THE 208 REALIGNMENT TO TAKE CARE OF CONGESTION EAST OF THE PROJECT?

>> LET ME DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I KNOW THAT COUNTY TRANSPORTATION STAFF IS HERE AS WELL. AND SO THEY MAY WANT TO OPINE ON THIS AS WELL. SO, I GUESS WHAT I WOULD SHARE IS AS A PART OF BASICALLY THIS BEING A MIXED-USE NODE IS, WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE STATE ROUTE 16/I-95 INTERCHANGE AREA IS AN AREA WITH SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC IT IN, GETTING ON TO AND OFF OF STATE ROUTE 16.

THIS IS AN AREA THAT ESSENTIALLY EVERYONE HAS RECOGNIZED WITH IT BEING A MIXED-USE NODE IS THE LOCATION FOR GROWTH AND WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS GROWTH. THAT'S WHERE DOLLARS ARE BEING FOCUSED BY THE D.O.T. AND I SUSPECT POSSIBLY BY THE COUNTY AS WELL ON IMPROVING THE TRANSPORTATION. I DON'T WANT TO STAND HERE AND TELL YOU THAT THERE WON'T EVER BE CONGESTION AT THIS INTERCHANGE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN IT IS CONGESTED AT PEAK TIMES. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I TRULY BELIEVE IN THE ANALYSIS THAT WE'VE DONE IS THAT REALIGNING 208 IS GOING TO REF LEAVE SEVERAL OF THE ISSUES AND MAKE BETTER THE CONGESTION AT THE UNSIGNALIZED 208 INTERSECTION THAT IS THERE TODAY.

>> MAY I SUGGEST, MIKE ROBERSON IS HERE AND HAS HAD COMMUNICATIONS WITH FDOT ABOUT

THAT INTERSECTION. >> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO ASK IF MR. ROBERSON IS HERE, I'D APPRECIATE AN OVERVIEW OF THE AREA AND IF WE HAVE ENOUGH COMING DOWN THE PIKE TO TAKE

CARE OF THE INEVITABLE TRAFFIC. >> YEAH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.

FOR THE RECORD, TRANSPORTATION MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT FOR ST. JOHNS COUNTY.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH D.O.T. FOR MANY YEARS NOW TO ADDRESS THE CONGESTION AT THE INTERCHANGE OF I-95 AND 16. WHAT THEY HAVE IN PLACE IS THE FUNDING FOR THE WIDENING OF SIX LANES OF STATE ROAD 16 AT THE INTERCHANGE BETWEEN 208 AND ROUGHLY AT THE HALF SIGNAL AT MCDONALD'S. BUT THE ENTIRE CORRIDOR WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH D.O.T. IS TO LOOK AT FROM THE WEST AT TOMS ROAD TO INMAN ROAD. DUE TO THE FUNDING, I WOULD SAY -- I WOULD SAY DIFFERENT FUNNING COMPONENTS WE HAVE TO SEPARATE THAT OUT.

THE FIRST BATCH OF IMPROVEMENTS WILL COME THROUGH WITH THE RESURFACING OF I-95 INTERCHANGE AND THAT WILL EXPAND THE FOUR -- EXISTING FOUR LANE OF 16 UNDERNEATH I-95 TO A SIX-LANE FACILITY. AND WE HAVE MODELED SEVERAL OPTIONS, AND WE THINK WITH THE CONCEPT THAT WE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WOULD GREATLY ENHANCE THE -- THE -- THE INTERCHANGE.

THIS IS FOR THE BUILD-OUT YEAR 2025. PART OF THE PUD ORIGINAL APPROVAL INCORPORATED IN PART OF THE DATA SETS IN ORDER TO PROJECT THIS.

WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WANTING TO REALIGN 208, BASICALLY, TO ADDRESS THE CONGESTION AT 208 AND 16 INTERSECTION. WITH THE REALIGNMENT, IT WOULD HELP TO ALLEVIATE THE PAST-THROUGH TRAFFIC TO GO TO THE INTERCHANGE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE -- AS DEMONSTRATED, WE'VE SEEN THERE'S A REDUCTION. FURTHER ALONG, WE WOULD, BASICALLY, CONTINUE TO WORK WITH D.O.T. IN ORDER TO EXPAND SIX -- EXPAND 16 TO FOUR-LANE WHERE IT ENDS AT THE WEST MALL ENTRANCE.

THAT'S THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO, WITH THAT, WE HAVE LOOKED AT SEVERAL SOFTWARE.

[03:45:02]

BETTER AND WILL ACCOMMODATE FOR FUTURE TRAFFIC TO 2045. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME OF THE

D.O.T. WORK ON 16 WON'T BE COMPLETED UNTIL 2045. >> NO.

THE COMPLETION OF THE OBTAINING, YOU LOOKING AT ROUGHLY BY 2023 WILL BE COMPLETED.

BUT IT WILL ACCOMMODATE TRAFFIC UP TO 2045. THAT'S THE PROJECTED TRAFFIC.

>> I MISUNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. >> ALSO, I THINK WE DIDN'T MENTION THAT THE REALIGNMENT -- THE TOWNHOME CEOS ARE CONDITIONED ON CONSTRUCTION OF THE REALIGNMENT. SO WE CAN'T OCCUPY A SINGLE TOWNHOME UNTIL THAT IS

CONSTRUCTED. >> OKAY. THAT COMPLETES THE PRESENTATION.

ARE THERE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? >> I DO.

I HAVE ONE. THE PASSING OF THIS PUD WILL INCLUDE A DEDICATION OF PART OF

TOMS ROAD. WHAT'S THE LENGTH OF IT? >> IT'S ROUGHLY HALF.

>> I DID NOT SEE A NUMBER ON IT. I COULDN'T FIND IT. >> IT IS THIS LITTLE PIECE RIGHT HERE. SO, IT'S ROUGHLY FROM STATE ROAD 16 TO THE ENTRY DRIVE.

>> DO WE KNOW HOW LONG THAT IS, FEET-WISE? >> WE CAN FIGURE THAT OUT

QUICKLY. >> SORRY. WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? HOW LONG THAT PIECE IS. THIS WAS JUST DISCOVERED DURING THE PLANNING AND REVIEW OF THIS PROJECT. NOBODY REALIZED UNTIL THE SURVEY CAME BACK THAT THE COUNTY DOESN'T OWN IT ALL. OKAY. IF YOU HAVE THAT NUMBER WHILE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU MIGHT COME BACK WITH IT. DO WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT?

DO WE HAVE ANYONE ON THE PHONE? LOOKS LIKE WE MAY. >> YES, SIR, IT APPEARS WE DO.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> TOM REYNOLDS, 50BRIGADINE COURT. I LOVE THIS PROJECT.

I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA. AND I GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING, I REALLY APPLAUD KATHRYN AND BILL, WHAT A GREAT PRESENTATION THAT THEY DID ON THIS. THEY'RE VERY, VERY THOROUGH.

I'VE ALWAYS NOTICED THEY'RE VERY THOROUGH WHEN THEY DO A PRESENTATION.

COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS A GREAT, GREAT PROJECT, AND I HOPE YOU VOTE YES.

TANK YOU FOR TAKING PUBLIC COMMENT. >> THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? >> CAN WE PUT THAT LITTLE THING BACK THAT HAS THE -- SHOWING THE CUT-THROUGH, 208? THANK YOU. TECHNOLOGY.

YOU SEE, IT WORKS. I WAS JUST GONNA DO THAT. 15 SECONDS IS GONE.

B.J. ONE PERSON OBJECTED TO THE PZA. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THAT WAS FOR. HERE'S MY QUESTION: THIS LOOKS LIKE GREEN TO ME.

LOOKS LIKE TREES. SO WE'RE GOING TO THROUGH ALL THE TREES TO MAKE A ROAD.

IS THIS ANY WETLANDS UP HERE, OR HOW ARE WE PRESERVING ANY OF THAT STUFF? I GUESS WE'RE NOT GOING TO BECAUSE WE GOT TO MAKE THAT ROAD GO UP THERE.

THERE'S THE LITTLE THING TO GET IN THERE. COMMISSIONER DEAN, HE KNOWS HOW TO GET THERE NOW. I THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE TOO MUCH TRAFFIC.

BUT THIS IS INTERESTING, IF YOU'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION. WE'VE GOT A HOTEL AT 95 AND 210 THAT WE JUST APPROVED, 250. THEN A HOTEL DOWN HERE, 240. DOWN AT THE OTHER END.

AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 750 LITTLE BUILDINGS THERE, WHETHER YOU WANT TO CALL IT HOUSES OR NOT. SO, UM, I'M CONCERNED THAT THIS IS THROUGH WETLANDS.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING I'M TALKING ABOUT. THE OTHER CONCERN IS, WHY DOES SOMEONE OBJECT TO IT. RIGHT NOW DOWN AT THE CATHEDRAL AND THE MIDDLE OF TOWN, THEY

[03:50:04]

VERY MUCH. GOOD. OUR EMPLOYEES -- NOT EMPLOYEES, BUT THE PEOPLE MORE. YOU'LL PROBABLY APPROVE THIS THING.

JUST WATCH WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO WITH THIS THING. I APPRECIATE THE TRANSPORTATION PEOPLE. I'LL TELL YA, I'M NOT TECHNOLOGY, BUT IF I HAD THE MONEY, I BET THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE ACCIDENTS UP HERE AND ON 95.

IF YOU LISTEN TO THE RADIO, BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE A RADIO, I'M NOT COMPLAINING, THERE'S ACCIDENTS ALL UP AND DOWN 95. SO WE NEED ALL THIS MONEY, BUT ARE WE PRESERVING ANYTHING HERE? MAYBE THE GENTLEMAN CANS THAN QUESTION. SO I DISAGREE WITH TOM.

ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 8? SEEING NONE.

WE WILL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT. DO YOU HAVE A RESPONSE TO COMMISSIONER SMITH'S QUESTION?

>> WE DO. THE PORTION OF TOMS ROAD THAT IS STILL PRIVATELY OWNED IS APPROXIMATELY 30 FEET WIDE BY 440 FEET, ROUGHLY HALF. AND THEN TO ANSWER HER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WETLANDS, UM, THE REALIGNMENT OF COUNTY ROAD 208, THERE ARE SOME UPLANDS IN THE REALIGNMENT AREA. THERE ARE GOING TO BE ABOUT SIX ACRES OF IMPACTS TO THE WETLANDS. THE REMAINDER OF THE WETLANDS WILL GO UNDER PERMANENT EASEMENT. THE APPLICANT REACHED OUT MORE THAN ONCE TO SEE IF THEY HAD CONCERNS. THEY GOT WRITTEN NOTIFICATION OF THESE HEARINGS AND THE PUBLIC

WORKSHOP AND LEFT VOICE MAILS, GOT NO RESPONSE. >> I WAS LOOKING AT THE TEXT.

IT DID SAY THE 79.4 ACRES OF WETLANDS ARE PROPOSED TO BE PRESERVED ON THE SITE.

>> CORRECT. >> IS IT YOUR REPRESENTATION TO THE BOARD THAT THERE WILL

ACTUALLY BE A PRESERVATION OR CONSERVATION EASEMENT? >> YES, THERE WILL BE.

>> THANK YOU. OKAY. I THINK THAT COMPLETES PUBLIC COMMENT. I THINK THAT ANSWERS ONE QUESTION.

IS THERE A MOTION? I'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE THIS. MOTION TO ENACT ORDINANCE 2020-61, APPROVING MAJOR MODIFICATION 2020-06 ELEVATION POINTE AND ANDERSON PARK PUD

BASED ON SIX FINDINGS OF FACT PROVIDED IN THE STAFF REPORT. >> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE VOTE.

THAT PASSES 4-0. OKAY. WE HAVE ONE ITEM LEFT ON THE

[9. S. Collins Avenue / Westgate Business Park Staff Report.]

THIS? >> I'LL TRY MY BEST. GOOD AFTERNOON.

>> BEFORE MS. ANDREWS PRESENTS THIS MORNING, STAFF WAS GIVEN SOME PHOTOS.

I BELIEVE THEY WERE DIRECTED FOR COMMISSION WALDRON. I WILL PUT THOSE INTO THE RECORD. HE CAN EXPLAIN THEM. THEY'RE DIRECTLY RELATED TO MS. ANDREWS' PRESENTATION AND THE CONVERSATION THAT WILL PROCEED FOLLOWING.

I WANT TO PUT THOSE IN THE RECORD SO EACH OF YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THEM AND COMMISSIONER WALDRON CAN SPEAK TO THOSE. I WILL PUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN ONE AT A TIME. I'LL LET COMMISSIONER WALDRON ADDRESS THEM.

>> THIS IS AFTER THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND ALL THAT. THIS WAS A REGULAR RAIN EVENT.

THIS IS BACK AROUND A DITCH. A GENTLEMAN BOUGHT A LOT AND FILLED IN PART OF THE DITCH.

I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER GENERAL HOSPITAL THERE TO CLEAN IT. WE'D HAVE TO ASK STAFF.

THAT'S CAUSED ISSUES WITH THAT WATER LEAVING THAT WAY. IT'S CEDING BACK TOWARDS THE

HOUSE. >> THAT'S GOING SOUTH AND WEST. >> GOING SOUTHWEST AND BACK TO 16. THIS IS A GENTLEMAN'S YARD THERE ON ONE OF THE ROADS WHEN THE

[03:55:07]

I THINK WE MET WITH THAT LANDOWNER. WE HAD ISSUES.

THAT WAS BACK BEFORE I -- >> YES, COMMISSIONER. GREG CALDWELL.

THE D.E.P. WAS CALLED IN TO HELP US WITH ENFORCEMENT ON THAT PRAP.

-- PROPERTY. THEY HAD CORRECTIVE ACTIONS FROM THAT PROPERTY OWNER.

THE COUNTY SECURED AN EASEMENT FROM THE ADJACENT CHURCH. WE WENT IN THERE AND DID

CLEANING OUT. >> HAS HIS PART BEEN CLEANED OUT?

>> HIS PART HAS MET ALL THE D.E.P. REQUIREMENTS. >> WE CAN'T CHANGE THOSE.

>> AS OF RIGHT NOW HE'S IN COMPLIANCE. >> OKAY.

>> HOW LONG WAS THAT? >> I BELIEVE THAT WAS WITHIN THE LAST 12 MONTHS, YES, SIR.

>> YEAH, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EARLY SUMMER/LATE SPRING. APPARENTLY IT HASN'T HELPED.

>> JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THAT'S BEEN CLEANED OFF TO HELP WITH THE DRAINAGE.

OKAY. >> THIS PRESENTATION IS TO RESPOND TO SOME CONCERNS WITH THE SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE AND THE BOARD HAS COME TO CONSENSUS TO WANT THE STAFF TO DO SOME EVALUATION AND PROVIDE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FOR POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

SO, WE HAVE RECEIVED REQUESTS TO RE-EVALUATE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF DRAINAGE DITCH ON THE SIDE OF SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE AND ALSO THE REMOVAL OF THE SOUTH COLLINS ENTRANCE TO WESTGATE BUSINESS PARK. THE ISSUES HAVE BEEN EVALUATED NUMEROUS TIMES BY PUBLIC WORKS AND COUNTY ENGINEERS. SO, THIS ARE ESSENTIALLY -- I THINK WE WERE TRYING TO CRYSTALLIZE THE CLAIMS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD RELATED TO THE SUBJECT.

ONE IS THE SETBACK AND BUFFER REQUIREMENTS POTENTIALLY THERE MIGHT BE -- WELL, AT LEAST ALLEGEDLY THERE MIGHT BE SOME NONCOMPLIANCE AS FAR AS THE SETBACK AND BUFFER OF THE WESTGATE BUSINESS PARK. NUMBER TWO IS THE TURNING OF COMMERCIAL TRUCKS THAT IS ACTUALLY IN WRITING PROHIBITED BY THE PUD TEXT AND NUMBER THREE IS PROBABLY THE MOST PREDOMINANT PROBLEM WHICH IS FLODING IN THE AREA. SO THE STAFF -- HERE'S THE MAP.

THAT WILL ILLUSTRATE THE AREA. THIS IS SOUTH COLLINS. SO, THERE IS THE DRIVE PREINSTALLATION OF THE DRIVEWAY TURNING, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT FROM SOUTH TO NORTH ON SOUTH COLLINS, TURNING LEFT. THE DRIVEWAY WASN'T THERE. IT WAS INSTALLED AFTER A NUMBER OF APPROVALS FOR THE TURNING LANE REALLY IS PRIMARILY TO RESPOND TO THE SAFETY CONCERNS FOR -- LET'S SEE -- WESTBOUND TRAFFIC TO HAVE TO DO A U-TURN TO GET TO THE WESTGATE BUSINESS PARK. SO THAT WAS KIND OF THE RESULT OF ADDRESSING THAT CONCERN.

OH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THERE'S THE INSTALLATION OF THE DRIVEWAY AND THERE WAS SPECULATION FROM THE CITIZENS THAT THE DRIVEWAY WAS ILLEGAL OR UNLAWFUL TURNING BY THE TRUCKS. THAT IS VIOLATING THE PUD TEXT AND ALSO POTENTIALLY CREATED SOME ADDITIONAL FLOODING THAT WASN'T EXISTING PRIOR TO THE INSTALLATION OF THE DRIVEWAY.

OH, SORRY. UM, SO WE WANTED TO EVALUATE THOSE THREE CONCERNS OR CLAIMS INDIVIDUALLY AND TO EVALUATE WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE ANY RECOMMENDED SOLUTION NUMBER ONE IS THE SETBACK BUFFER REQUIREMENTS. UM, IT IS STAFF'S FINDING THAT THE SETBACK AND BUFFER REQUIREMENTS WERE ALL MET. THEY ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE

[04:00:08]

MODIFICATION FOR THE BUSINESS PARK ENTRANCE. >>> SO, FOR THIS ITEM, WE DON'T

BELIEVE THERE IS REALLY ANY ACTION THAT CAN BE RECOMMENDED. >>> NUMBER TWO IS THE ILLEGAL OR UNLAWFUL TURNING OF THE COMMERCIAL TRUCK ON THE DRIVEWAY ON SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE.

IT IS PRETTY CLEAR IN THE APPROVED PUD TEXT THAT ANY LARGE TRUCK TO THE WESTGATE BUSINESS PARK HAS TO GO THROUGH STATE ROAD 16 AND SO IT'S NOT ALLOWED FOR THEM TO TURN ON THE DRIVEWAY. SO OUR POTENTIAL ACTION, EVEN THOUGH THERE HAVE -- THERE HAS BEEN PRETTY STRENGTHENED CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TAKEN BY OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT TO WARRANT THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT TRUCKS ARE NOT ALLOWED AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SIGNS INSTALLED TO WARN THE TRUCK DRIVERS, IT SEEMS LIKE WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO LOOK FOR MORE STRENGTHENENED

ACTIVITIES TO REINFORCE THIS CODE REQUIREMENT. >>> NUMBER THREE THE EVALUATION OF THE FLOODING. IT IS THE STAFF'S BELIEF, AND ALSO THE FINDING THAT IS BEFORE THE ENTRANCE WAS INSTALLED, UM, THERE WAS A DITCH, THE CAPACITY OF THAT DITCH IS -- WAS 12.5 CUBIC FLOW PER SECOND AND IT'S APPROXIMATELY SIX MINUTES OF STORAGE CAPACITY.

AND BECAUSE OF THE WIDENING OF THE ROAD, THE DITCH HAD TO BE REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH AN 18-INCH PIPE. THE PIPE PROVIDES A FLOW CAPACITY OF 10CFS.

IT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ESSENTIALLY REQUIRES A FIVE-YEAR STORM EVENT DRAINAGE CAPACITY AND 18-INCH DRAINAGE PIPE PROVIDES A 25-YEAR STORM DRAINAGE CAPACITY. HOWEVER, IT IS -- YOU KNOW, FROM THE NUMBER, IT'S A SHEAR MATH THAT THERE IS A CERTIFIED REDUCTION IN CAPACITY IN THE DRAINAGE PIPE FROM 12.5 TO 10. THE CONSIDERATION OF THE INSTALLATION OF THE 18-INCH PIPE WAS -- IT IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE STATE ROAD 16 DRAINAGE PIPE, SO THAT WAS THE MAXIMUM WITHOUT ADDITIONAL PERMITTING. SO, LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS PROVIDED BY THE CITIZEN AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FLOODING, WE -- STAFF LOOKED AT PRIMARILY PUBLIC WORKS STAFF HAVE GONE OUT AND KIND OF EVALUATED THE SITUATION AND ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE NUMBER AND THE ENGINEERING OF THE AREA. UM, BEFORE YOU, THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS THAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING. NUMBER ONE IS MORE OF A -- A RECOMMENDATION THAT POTENTIALLY CAN ALLEVIATE -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE SOLVING THE TWO PROBLEMS -- BUT ALLEVIATING THE PROBLEM OF TURNING OF THE COMMERCIAL TRUCK, WHICH IS INSTALLATION OF SPEED BUMP, SO IT SERVES AS ADDITIONAL DETERRENTS TO THE TRUCK TURNING, AS WELL, AS PROVIDING RETENTION OF THE STORM WATER. THE COST ESTIMATE IS $10,000.

NUMBER TWO POTENTIAL SOLUTION IS THE REPLACEMENT OF THE CURRENT DRAINAGE PIPE.

THE LENGTH OF THE PIPE IS 260 FEET. IT WILL PROVIDE A 50-YEAR STORM EVENT PROTECTION AND WE ALSO LISTED, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE INCENTENNIAL RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR THIS REPLACEMENT AND THE COST ESTIMATE IS 300,000.

THERE ARE OTHER IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS. YOU ARE CONSIDERING THERE WAS A PRIOR ITEM THAT THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE LOW-LYING AREA OF THE COUNTY.

SO THE FLOODING IN THE LOW-LINING AREA IS NOT ISOLATED TO THIS AREA BUT THIS AREA CERTAINLY HAS SOME PROMINENT MANIFESTATION OF FLOODING EVENTS.

[04:05:14]

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF. I WAS GOING TO CALL ON

MS. BADGER TO SPEAK. >> YES, SIR. YOUR STAFF MEMBER HAD JUST SAID ALL THE BUFFER REQUIREMENT AND EVERYTHING WAS UP TO CODE. IT'S NOT TRUE.

THAT'S WHY I ASK YOU TO SWEAR THEM IN. GREG CALDWELL KNOWS THERE'S ONLY 62 FEET. THIS PLACE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THEIR 20-FEET BUFFER.

I'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS FOR 18 MONTHS. YOUR STAFF IS ALLOWED TO GET UP HERE AND GIVE UNACCURATE TESTIMONY, BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE THEIR 20-FOOT BUFFER.

IN 2016, WHEN THIS CAME UP, THIS WAS NEVER -- THE TURN LANE WAS NEVER APPROVED BY A COUNTY COMMISSION. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET TO Y'ALL.

I DO HAVE -- AND IF YOU WANT TO PULL UP THE TAPE OF 2016, PART 2, YOU CAN SEE THE COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING. WHEN WE WENT IN, THEY WERE ONLY GOING TO JUST PUT A BRIDGE OVER.

THEN COMMISSIONER MCCLURE SAID, NO, IT NEEDED A TURN LANE PUT INTO IT.

IT NEVER WENT BACK FOR A MODIFICATION OR A MAJOR MODIFICATION.

IT WAS JUST STUCK IN. ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS HERE SAID THEY WERE TRYING TO EVEN GET IT APPROVED WITHOUT HAVING THE TURN LANE. Y'ALL NEED TO INVESTIGATE DEEPLY WHAT IS GOING ON, AND I INSIST THAT YOU SWEAR IN MR. CALDWELL AND ASK HIM HOW MUCH OF AN EASEMENT AND HOW MUCH OF A BUFFER THIS PLACE HAS. BECAUSE RIGHT HERE ON THIS COUNTY MAP, IT EVEN SHOWS A 20-FOOT BUFFER. COMMISSIONER DEAN, WHEN I MET WITH YOU UPSTAIRS, YOU TOLD ME THIS WAS GOING TO BE LOOKED INTO.

THAT THE MAN WITH THE GRAY HAIR AND THE BEARD WAS GOING TO LOOK INTO WHY AND WHERE THEIR BUFFER WAS. IT HASN'T BEEN LOOKED INTO BECAUSE YOUR STAFF JUST GOT UP HERE AND GAVE TESTIMONY AS TO WHAT SHE WAS GIVEN. THE REASON THE MAN SAID, IT WORKS ON PAPER, IT WORKS ON PAPER BECAUSE THERE WAS FALSE TESTIMONY GAVE THAT THERE WAS 78 FOOT THERE. THE COUNTY HAS 58 FEET AND THE BUFFER HAS 20.

THE PLAN DID NOT WORK BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS NOT THERE. AND THIS WAS PRESENTED TO Y'ALL.

OKAY. YOU LOOK RIGHT HERE. RIGHT HERE.

THERE'S NO BUFFER. THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR 20-FOOT BUFFER.

NO BUFFER. THEY'VE ALREADY GOT EXCLUSIONS FOR THEIR BUFFER IN THE BACK THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A NATURALLY LANDSCAPED BUFFER. WELL, LET ME TELL YA, THEY HAD TO COME BEFORE THE COUNTY COMMISSION IN 2009 TO GET APPROVAL FOR ANOTHER DUMPSTER PAD, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE MAN -- THE DOLLAR STORE, HEY, WOULD YOU FIGHT US IF WE WENT FOR ANOTHER DIPSY DUMPSTER WHERE MY PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO WALK, YOU KNOW, 300 FEET TO THE DIPSY DUMPSTER.

SURE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WENT ALONG WITH THAT. BUT THIS RIGHT HERE IS SITTING IN THE BUFFER THAT THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE. OKAY? THIS RIGHT HERE. IT IS SITTING IN THE NATURALLY LANDSCAPED BUFFER THEY GOT PERMISSION AND FORGIVENESS FOR BECAUSE THEY WIPED IT OUT AND PUT GAS LINES AND DIPSY DUMPSTERS ALL THE WAY DOWN IT. THIS, WHICH I DID NOT SHOW THE ROAD AND BRIDGE DEPARTMENT FOR THIS VERY REASON. OKAY. THIS PICTURE RIGHT HERE WAS TAKEN BEFORE THIS ROAD PROJECT EVER STARTED. THIS WATER WAS FLOWING DOWN TO 16. NOW THIS WATER HAS NOWHERE TO GO.

YES, THEY'RE EXACTLY RIGHT. SOME OF THIS IS COMING OUT OF THE STRIP MALL, COMES RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. BUT RIGHT HERE IS PROOF THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN TOWARDS THE HIGHWAY BEFORE THIS DITCH WAS FILLED IN. WE HAVE THESE.

WE JUST WANTED IT FIXED. AND EVIDENTLY, YOUR STAFF GETS TO KEEP GIVING FALSE TESTIMONY

[04:10:02]

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 30 YEARS. 30 YEARS OF COMMISSIONERS HAVE BEEN DENYING THEM ACCESS FOR OUR ROAD. EVEN ONE OF YOUS FATHERS TOLD THEM THEY HAD THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP THEIR PROPERTY BUT THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. JUST LIKE THESE RENTERS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO AFFECT A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. I'VE BEEN IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 50 YEARS. MY NEIGHBOR, MY CAR, THEIR BUSINESS HAS BEEN THERE SINCE 1978, NEVER HAD A WATER PROBLEM. OKAY. AND TO ALLOW THE STAFF TO KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS WHEN YOU NEED TO ASK YOUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT WHAT WAS SAID.

IT IS RIGHT HERE. IT THE -- IT WAS NEVER A MODIFICATION OR NO PLANS BEFORE THE COUNTY COMMISSION. THIS THING WAS JAMMED IN. HERE'S THE PROOF RIGHT HERE, GENTLEMEN, RIGHT FROM YOUR OWN COUNTY. I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO SWEAR THEM IN BECAUSE THIS SUSPECT FAIR FOR THEM TO -- THIS ISN'T FAIR TO KEEP TELLING THEM THEY HAVE SOMETHING THEY DON'T HAVE. SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THANK YOU.

>> MS. BADGER, COULD YOU PUT -- >> I'LL GIVE YOU MY --

>> YEAH. IF I MAY, THROUGH THE VICE-CHAIR, MS. BADGER, IF

THERE'S SOMETHING ON THOSE DISCS YOU'D LIKE US TO LOOK AT -- >> PATRICK, YOU KNOW THIS DISK SUSPECT ANY GOOD. IT WAS SO DISTORTED. YOU CAN GO RIGHT BACK IN THERE IN THAT COMPUTER ROOM AND PULL UP THE HEARING HERE. IT SHOWS THAT YOU NEED TO COME BACK FOR A MODIFICATION AND FELL ON DEAF EARS. DON'T ACT LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW

WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. >> MS. BADGER, WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THAT HEARING?

>> THE DATE OF THE HEARING WAS 11/15/2015. >> 11/15/16.

I'M GOING TO LOOK AT IT.

11/15/16.

>> OKAY. UM, I AM ALLISON ROSE. I LIVE AT 561 LAWRENCE AVENUE, WHICH IS JUST ONE BLOCK OFF SOUTH COLLINS. SO I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS MESS AS WELL. UM, MY MAIN CONCERN -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU WERE SHOWN MIKE CARR'S SHOP. HE ASKED ME TO MENTION THIS TODAY BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BE HERE. AS SHERRY SAID, HIS SHOP WAS BUILT IN 1978.

HE HAS NEVER HAD A FLOODING ISSUE. SO THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH ALL OF THAT ON SOUTH COLLINS. NOW, WE TAKE A LITTLE JOURNEY TO THE END OF LAWRENCE AVENUE.

YOU WERE SHOWN THIS PICTURE, AND THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT THIS IS.

I TOOK THIS, SO I KNOW WHAT IT IS. THIS IS THE INTERSECTION OF THE DITCH THAT RUNS ALONG LAWRENCE THAT INTERSECTS THE DITCH RUNNING NORTH-SOUTH TO 16.

THIS IS AFTER A NORMAL DAY OF RAIN. OKAY.

THIS IS A LOT OF WATER. IT DOESN'T GO AWAY. THIS, ALTHOUGH IT'S BLACK AND WHITE, IS A PICTURE THAT I TOOK YESTERDAY. THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

NOW, KEEP IN MIND THAT WE HAD NOT HAD ANY RAIN IN ABOUT THREE DAYS, EXCEPT FOR THE RAIN WE HAD THE MORNING BEFORE YESTERDAY -- YESTERDAY, I GUESS IT WAS -- FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES EARLY IN THE MORNING WHEN THE COLD FRONT CAME. THIS IS THE DITCH.

IT WILL BE THAT WAY FOR ABOUT A WEEK, AT LEAST. IN FACT, I'VE NEVER SEEN IT REALLY EMPTY. OKAY. THIS IS THE END OF THE DITCH WHERE IT FEEDS INTO 16, WHERE THE CULVERT IS THERE. SO, THIS IS -- YOU CAN'T SEE

[04:15:09]

YOU KNOW, THE SLOPE OF THE DITCH. THERE'S SOME REASON IT'S NOT GOING FROM THIS MAJOR INTERSECTION THAT STAYS LIKE THIS TO FLOW OUT ON TO 16.

I DON'T THINK A 5-YEAR-OLD COULD FIGURE THIS OUT. IT'S BEEN THIS WAY FOR TWO YEARS. BEN BRIGHT HAS TRIED TO WORK ON IT.

I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS BECAUSE THE CHURCH ADJACENT TO THIS DITCH GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO GO IN AND CLEAN OUT TO DITCH. OKAY.

SO, THIS IS MY YARD AFTER THE NOR'EASTER WE HAD THREE WEEKS AGO.

IT SHOULD BE GOING OUT HERE TO THAT DITCH. BUT THERE'S SO MUCH WATER BACKED IN THERE THERE'S NOWHERE FOR IT TO GO. SO, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES, AND MAYBE YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THIS, IS THE ROAD. THEY BUILT A ROAD ADJACENT TO MY HOUSE. IN OTHER WORDS, FROM ABOUT BACK HERE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO HERE, WHAT USED TO BE A 10-FOOT DITCH IS NOW A TWO-FOOT DITCH BECAUSE THERE'S AN EIGHT-FOOT ROAD -- OR A 10-FOOT ROAD. HE BUILT THAT RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THAT DITCH.

WELL, IF THERE'S NOWHERE FOR THE WATER TO GO -- IF IT'S NOT GOING OUT ON 16, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. HIS ROAD IS A PROBLEM. THE WATER IS NOT GOING OUT ON 16. I'M NOT IN A FLOOD ZONE AND I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A FLOOD ZONE, BUT ACCORDING TO THIS, I AM IN A FLOOD ZONE. SO, IF SOMEBODY CAN FIGURE OUT JUST HOW TO MAKE THE WATER TO GO INTO THE DITCH ON 16, IT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THROUGH THE CHAIR ONCE AGAIN, MADAM, FOR THE -- THE PHOTOS THAT YOU DISPLAYED, IF WE COULD

GET A COPY OF THOSE. >> GOOD AFTERNOON. >> MY NAME IS SHARON BADGER.

I HAVE LIVED ON SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE FOR 53 1/2 YEARS. I'VE NEVER SEEN WATER ON THAT ROAD IN 53 YEARS, NOT EVEN WHEN IT RAINED, WHAT WAS IT, 14, 16 INCHES IN EIGHT HOURS AND FILLED WATER EVERYWHERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE. IT NEVER STAYED IN THAT DITCH.

IT RAN OUT. AND WHAT MR. BAKER DID, MR. BAKER, HE HAULED IN HUNDREDS OF LOADS OF DIRT. IT STARTED AT 7 A.M. IN THE MORNING.

I HEAR THESE TRUCKS PASSING EACH OTHER. I'M GOING, WHAT IS GOING ON? I LOOK OUT THE WINDOW, TRUCKLOADS OF DIRT, EMPTY TRUCKS, FULL TRUCKS.

HE PUT CULVERTS IN THERE. A CANAL IS WHAT IT WAS. HE DUG THAT CANAL.

IT CAME FROM THE BACK OF MY CAR'S HOUSE ALL THE WAY TO 16. AND MR. BAKER PUT IN TWO CULVERTS AND FILLED PART OF IT IN. THEN THE COUNTY WANTED TO CLEAN IT OUT. SO THE CHURCH GAVE THEM PERMISSION.

BUT THE CHURCH SAID THEY HAD TO REPLACE THE FENCE THAT THEY BROKE DOWN THE TIME BEFORE, AND THE FENCE HAS NEVER BEEN FIXED AT THE CHURCH. SO NEVER GONE BACK ON THE CHURCH PROPERTY TO DIG OUT THE PART OF OVER ON THE CHURCH. THAT'S HOW THAT ONE GOES.

THIS IS NOT FUN BECAUSE VICKI BUSH AND LONNIE BUSH LIVE AT THE END OF THE ROAD, AND THEIR YARD, BECAUSE THAT MAN PUT A SEPTIC TANK RIGHT UP AGAINST HIS FENCE WITH HIS GREAT BIG, HUGE SEPTIC

[04:20:12]

I FELL IN IT. IT WAS NOT FUN TRYING TO GET OUT OF IT.

IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE. AND MY HOUSE HAS HAD WATER EXCEPT FOR MAYBE A WEEK ALL SUMMER LONG, IT'S HAD ABOUT EIGHT INCHES OF WATER SITTING IN MY DITCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE NEIGHBORS' DITCH AND THEN IT DOESN'T GO OVER TO HER CULVERT AND SITS IN FRONT OF BILLY BUSH'S HOUSE SO SOME LITTLE GRAY-HEADED MAN WITH CURLS IN HIS HEAD DUG IT OUT AND DUG IT TOO DEEP. HE SAID, OH, YEAH, THEY'LL COME SHOOT IT AND WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON, IF IT IS TOO HIGH OR NOT. A LITTLE BOY GOT -- I THINK HIS NAME IS SHAWN, GOT CALLED OUT TO WORLD GOLF VILLAGE AND IT'S HISTORY.

>> THANK YOU. >> HOW Y'ALL DOING? I'VE GOT A VIDEO THAT MY KIDS SENT ME. I WAS OUT OF TOWN. I'VE BEEN THERE SINCE '76 AND I'VE NEVER HAD STANDING WATER IN MY YARD. I'M HOPING Y'ALL CAN SEE THIS.

THIS IS MY PROPERTY GOING AROUND FROM LAWRENCE AVENUE TO SOUTH COLLINS.

THIS IS JUST A RAIN. THIS IS NOT A HURRICANE. THIS WAS JUST ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO. THAT'S THE FRONT OF MY HOUSE WHERE MY DRIVEWAY IS THAT'S FULL OF WATER. OVER BACK BY THE OAK TREE, MY BACKYARD IS PRETTY MUCH SUBMERGED. THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED SINCE THIS DEAL WITH THE EXIT COMING OUT OF THE MALL. THAT DITCH WAS PROBABLY FOUR FOOT DEEP BY THREE, THREE AND A HALF FOOT WIDE AND THEY PUT AN 18-INCH CULVERT IN THERE TO TAKE THAT MUCH RAIN.

NOW, IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO FIGURE THAT THAT'S NOT THE PROPER SIZE.

YOU NEED A BIGGER CULVERT OR SOMETHING IN THERE TO GET THAT WATER OUT.

I'VE GOT WATER LAYING IN MY DITCH RIGHT NOW THAT I NEVER HAD BEFORE.

NOT SO MUCH IN THE FRONT OF MY HOUSE, BUT THE ONE ACROSS THE STREET ON LAWRENCE, WHERE THE COUNTY DID DIG IT OUT, BUT IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT DRAINING. IT JUST SITS THERE.

AND IT'S NOTHING BUT MOSQUITO HEAVEN. I HOPE Y'ALL CAN DO SOMETHING.

THANK YOU. AND IT IS THE HIGHEST ELEVATION IN THE COUNTY.

>> THANK YOU. >> I WANT MY THREE MINUTES, TOO. >> THAT'S UP TO THE CHAIRMAN.

>> SURE. SHERRY BADGER. SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE.

YES, THE DRIVEWAY, THE STRIP MALL IS A PAIN. OKAY.

YOUR STAFF SAID, OH, WE'RE GOING TO PUT SPEED HUMPING RIGHT THERE.

THAT WILL KEEP THE WATER. THESE ARE PICTURES FOR PATRICK'S PUBLIC RECORD TO BACK UP WHAT MR. APPLAUSENER SAID. THIS DITCH IS EVEN WITH THE SIDEWALK.

OKAY. HERE'S THE SIDEWALK. HERE'S THE DITCH.

HERE'S THE OTHER DITCH RUNNING DOWN THE ROAD. OKAY.

AND THE EXACT AMOUNT IS Y'ALL YOU PUT 269 CUBIC YARDS OF WATER INTO A 19 CUBIC YARD PIPE.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I REALLY JUST DON'T KNOW.

HERE'S ANOTHER ONE. AROUND THE CORNER. ALLISON LIVES DOWN HERE.

THIS IS TOBEY'S HOUSE RIGHT HERE. SO THIS WATER'S ALL COMING DOWN.

HRE'S ANOTHER ONE. AND ON EASEMENT -- ON THE BUFFER, WITH THEIR IN BUFFER, THE COUNTY PROPERTY STOPS RIGHT HERE BEHIND THIS SIGN. THE COUNTY'S 58-FOOT EASEMENT STOPS RIGHT THERE. Y'ALL NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE OTHER 18 FEET OF THIS

[04:25:01]

PLACE'S BUFFER IS. THANK YOU. >> I THINK THAT COMPLETES --

>> ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? WE GOT A PHONE CALL. >> GOOD AFTERNOON.

STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. >> TOM REYNOLDS, 50 BRIG DAN DEANE COURT. I CAN'T HELP BUT TO WONDER, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HEARD MS. ANDREWS SAY THAT IT COST ABOUT $300,000, I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER BECAUSE I DIDN'T HEAR ANYBODY ASK.

IS THAT PIPE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, STOP ALL THESE WATER PROBLEMS? THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

I WANT TO POINT THAT OUT. IT DOES SOUND LIKE SOME OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS, NOT MS. BADGER AND THEM, BUT THOSE WHO DID ALL THE ADDING ON, IT KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE THEY MIGHT BE RESPONSIBLE.

ANOTHER THING I'VE HEARD. I'VE NEVER KNOWN OF A SEPTIC TANK, AND I LIVED IN A RURAL AREA BEFORE, AND I HAD A SEPTIC TANK PUT IN. I'M KIND OF SURPRISED THAT A SEPTIC TANK COULD BE APPROVED RIGHT NEXT TO A PROPERTY LINE, IF I HEARD THAT CORRECT.

ANYWAYS, COMMISSIONERS, WHEN I LOOK AT THESE FOLKS THAT ARE SPEAKING AND GOT THE WATER PROBLEMS -- YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HEAR THEM TALK, OKAY, THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS.

THAT'S NOT RIGHT. AS FAR AS THAT TRUCK -- THOSE TRUCKS TAKING THE TURN, COMMISSIONERS, THAT'S AN EASY ONE. YOU SLAP THEM WITH AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS $1,000 FINE FOR COMING THIS WAY. I GOT TO TELL YA, YOU'RE GONNA STOP THAT PROBLEM. IF THERE'S NO INFRACTIONS, IT WILL NEVER STOP.

WHEN I WAS DRIVING A TRUCK AND I SAW THOSE SIGNS, I ALWAYS -- I DIDN'T RUN OUT ON THOSE STREETS.

I WENT THE WAY YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO. ANYWAYS, COMMISSIONERS, I HOPE YOU CAN GET THIS WORKED OUT FOR MS. BADGER AND HER NEIGHBORS. IT'S NOT LIKE WHEN YOU'VE BEEN SOMEWHERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY HAS TO PUT UP WITH DEVELOPMENT AROUND YOU, I DON'T CARE WHERE YOU LIVE, WHAT STATE. HOWEVER, WHEN DEVELOPMENT IS AFFECTING YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE, THAT'S WHEN YOU FOLKS NEED TO STEP IN, OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

IT'S NOT A MONEY THING. YOU NEED TO GET IT FIXED. IF THE MALL CAUSED THE PROBLEMS, THEY NEED TO FIX THE PROBLEM. THE CHAIRMAN OR A COUNTY COMMISSION AND THEY NEED TO MEET AND SEE IF THE SETBACK IS RIGHT OR NOT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND. >> THANK YOU. >> B.J. KALADY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO. OOPS, MR. WHITEHURST IS COMING BACK. $300,000. NOW, HE'S GOT THAT 730.

BUT WE CAN'T TOUCH THAT. SO, WILL THIS 300,000 FIX THE FLOODING? YOU PEOPLE ARE MORE INTO THIS THAN I AM, BUT FIND THE 300,000, FIX IT.

THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. THAT'S ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING.

THIS LADY HAS BEEN HERE, WHAT, 53 YEARS SHE SAID? 53 YEARS AND HAVE TO COME IN HERE AND BEG TO LIVE WHERE THE WATER ISN'T IN THEIR YARDS. AND THEN WE CAN SPEND HOURS BEFORE THEY GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, WHICH STILL KIND OF BOTHERS ME.

TO PASS ALL THESE OTHER DEVELOPMENTS. OH, YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THE WETLANDS, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FLOODING. 18 MONTHS MS. BADGER HAS BEEN TRYING TO GET SOMETHING DONE. YOU'RE MEETING HERE AND THERE. WHAT CAN YOU DO TODAY? JUST SAY, THIS IS OUR PLAN. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION, GET THE $300,000, GET OVER THERE AND GET IT FIXED. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[04:30:14]

AND TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY ELSE. THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 9. SEEING NONE, PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED.

>> OKAY. WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD COMMISSIONERS.

ANYONE WANT TO EITHER HAVE A COMMENT OR ANY QUESTION OF STAFF AT THIS POINT OR WHAT'S YOUR

PLEASURE? >> I DO. >> OKAY.

I WILL START WITH COMMISSIONER SMITH AND COME THIS WAY. >> I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS.

NUMBER ONE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN ANSWER IT, BUT WHO ENGINEERED THIS WHERE IT WAS GOING TO BE -- WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR ENGINEERING? COMMISSIONER, WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION RIGHT NOW ON WHO ENGINEERED THIS. THIS WAS A DEVELOPER DESIGNED PROJECT, CONSTRUCTED BY THE DEVELOPER. SO WE'LL FIND OUT THAT

INFORMATION. >> SHOULD THERE NOT BE LIABILITY?

YES, SIR. >> IF THERE'S A PROVEN IMPEDIMENT, THERE'S A CHANGE THAT HAS THEIR LICENSE ON THE LINE IN RECORD TO THIS BACKING AND MAKE SURE THIS IS REMEDIED?

>> ALL PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS HAVE A LICENSE AND INSURANCE, YES, SIR.

>> TO ME -- WHAT WAS A LITTLE -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS: WHO RECOMMENDED THE 24X38 CULVERT

INSTALLATION IN. >> THAT IS SOMETHING THAT PUBLIC WORKS LOOKED AT AFTERWARDS.

WE SAID IF YOU WENT UP TO 18-INCH CULVERT, SAME STORAGE IN THE SWALE.

>> SAME STORAGE OR SAME -- >> SAME STORAGE. >> EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY STORAGE. I LIKE DRAINING VERSUS RETAINING.

THE PROBLEM HERE IS RETENTION RATHER THAN DRAINING. WHEN YOU SAY "STORAGE" I HAVE IN

MY MIND THAT IT'S RETAINING. >> SO, RIGHT NOW ALONG STATE ROAD 16, THERE'S AN 18-INCH PIPE THAT RUNS BELOW SOUTH KOL INWILLS. IT DOSH COLLINS.

THE OLD DITCH/SWALE USED TO TIE INTO THAT 18-INCH CULVERT THROUGH A BOX SYSTEM, THROUGH A STRUCTURE. SO YOU HAVE THAT 18-INCH RESTRICTION THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE DITCH WAS FILLED IN WITH A PIPE AND YOU'D HAVE THAT AFTERWARDS.

SO WE LOOKED AT WHAT WAS THE STORAGE CAPACITY OF THAT SWALE AND HOW WOULD WE -- AND WHAT

SIZE PIPE WOULD IT TAKE TO REPLACE THAT STORAGE. >> SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THE INUNDATION OF WATER THEY'RE EXPERIENCING AND THE RETENTION OF WATER THEY'RE EXPERIENCING IS A RESULT OF LACK OF STORAGE CAPACITY TO HOLD THAT WATER BEFORE IT'S ABLE TO RELIEVE

ITSELF UNDER SOUTH COLLINS GOING EAST? >> THAT COULD BE A CONTRIBUTING

FACTOR, YES. >> LET ME ASK YOU THIS, TOO, IN REGARD TO ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTOR IS THE IMPEER VEEOUS VUFS LAYER OF THE MALL RETENTION -- OR MALL AREA COMING OFF OF THERE

ON TO THEM, IS THAT A POTENTIAL PROBLEM AS WELL? >> I THINK LOOKING AT THE SURVEY, IT APPEARS, LIKE, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF RUNOFF COMING FROM THE WESTGATE SHOPPING PLAZA ON TO THE SOUTH COLLINS BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME MINIMAL AMOUNT RUNNING THAT WAY.

THAT'S WHY WE OFFERED UP THE SPEED BUMP FOR TWO REASONS. ONE TO TRY TO REDUCE THE TRUCK TRAFFIC, AS WELL AS MAYBE GIVE A CHANNEL FOR SOME OF THAT DRAINAGE TO BE COLLECTED AND

EITHER KEPT ON SITE OR BROUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM. >> TODAY WE WERE BROUGHT A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION WHERE SOME OF THIS WATER IS APPARENTLY GOING SOUTH, WEST, NORTH AND THEN BACK TO THE EAST, IS THAT CORRECT? IS THERE -- AND I ASSUME --

[04:35:04]

SOUTHWEST OF THE -- >> AT THE END OF LAWRENCE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO,

COMMISSIONER? >> A DITCH BESIDE THE CHURCH SO I ASSUME WE'RE GOING WEST.

>> YES, SIR. >> SO THAT DITCH IS WEST OF THE CHURCH?

>> IT'S JUST WEST OF THE WESTGATE PLAZA AND EAST OF THE CHURCH.

>> EAST OF THE CHURCH. >> YES, SIR. THERE'S A DITCH THERE THAT IS GOING -- THERE'S A DITCH ON THE SOUTHSIDE OF THIS FACILITY, WESTGATE PLAZA AS WELL THAT GOES

TO THAT DITCH? >> THERE'S A COUPLE OF DITCHES, ONE ALONG LAWRENCE AND ONE ON

SOUTH COLLINS THAT COMES AROUND, I BELIEVE. >> CAN WE BRING UP AN AERIAL.

WE NEED TO. >> I TRIED TO PULL IT UP ON MY PHONE EARLIER, BUT I COULDN'T GO

-- GET IT. >> SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT IMPEDIMENTS THAT ARE

HINDERING THE DRAINAGE OF THIS WHOLE AREA? >> RIGHT.

>> AND DEP HAS INVOLVED ITSELF ON ONE SITUATION AND HAS SAID, WELL, IT'S NOT -- THEY'VE --

THEY'VE -- THEY'VE DONE THEIR RECONCILIATION? >> YES, SIR.

YET, THERE'S STILL SOME RETENTION OF WATER THERE THAT IS NOT ABLE TO DRAIN THAT AT ONE

POINT USED TO DRAIN? >> THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING TODAY FROM CITIZENS.

>> WHO USED TO MAINTAIN THAT DITCH THAT GOES NORTH-SOUTH? >> WE HAVE THE RIGHTS TO

MAINTAIN THAT DITCH. >> WHO DID IT IN THE PAST? >> ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS THAT OWNED PORTIONS OF THAT DITCH. MR. BAKER STILL OWNS A PORTION OF THAT DITCH.

WE OWN THE -- THE LOCATIONZ THAT WE HAVE EASEMENTS OVER OR THE RIGHTS TO, WE CAN PERFORM

MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES. >> CAN SOMEBODY PUSH THAT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER NORTH.

SO WE CAN SEE THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE -- YEAH, RIGHT THERE. >> WHERE IS THE DITCH?

>> IT RUNS THIS WAY, COMMISSIONER, NORTH AND SOUTH. THERE'S TIE JUNINS AT -- THERE'S TIE-INS AT LAWRENCE. IT TAKES IT UP TO STATE ROAD 16, CROSSES NORTH ON STATE ROAD 16.

>> IS THERE ANY TIE TO THE DITCH FORMALLY ON THE WEST SIDE OF SOUTH COLLINS TO THAT SYSTEM

THERE? >> THERE IS BUT THERE'S DEFINITELY TOPOGRAPHY.

LAWRENCE RUNS WEST. SOUTH COLLINS AND PORTION OF THIS ALL RUN NORTH.

>> I GUESS MY -- MY -- MY CONCERN IS -- AND SHE HAS ALREADY ALLUDED TO IT.

IF WHICH GO TO SPEND ANY MONEY, I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT FIXES IT. >> CORRECT.

ALSO, WHERE THAT MONEY COMES FROM, IT SHOULD BE TIED TO THE PERSON THAT'S CREATED THIS PROBLEM, NOT TO US THAT HAVEN'T. AND THAT'S WHERE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS DONE CORRECTLY SO IT IS REMEDIED AND WE'RE NOT BACK HERE THREE WEEKS, TWO YEARS OR THE NEXT BOARD THAT'S 20 YEARS FROM NOW DEALING WITH THIS SAME ISSUE. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS MY FEELINGS ON DRAINAGE. ONE OF THINGS WE DO, WE NEVER IMPEDE SOMEBODY ELSE'S DRAINAGE BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF IT. WE'RE NOT IN A RETENTION INDUSTRY OF AGRICULTURE.

WE'RE INTO DRAINING. WE WANT TO GET RID OF IT AND WHEN WANT TO DO IT EXPEDITIOUSLY. THEY WILL PUT THEIR NAME AND REPUTATION ON THE LINE AND ALSO THEIR MONEY TO MAKE SURE THIS IS REMEDIED. I DON'T WANT STAFF TO BE PUT IN THAT COMPROMISED POSITION, WHOEVER DID THIS, IF IT'S A POOR DESIGN, THEY NEED TO BE LIABLE FOR IT. THAT'S MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU, MR. VICE-CHAIR.

>> COMMISSIONER SMITH TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK.

WE NEED TO FIND OUT, I'M SURE IT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE PLANS, WHAT THE ENGINEER DESIGNED,

BECAUSE IT HASN'T WORKED. HE DESIGNED IT WRONG. >> MR. VICE CHAIRMAN.

I WAS ABLE TO PULL UP THE COMMERCIAL PLANS APPROVED. I'M LOOKING AT THE APPROVED PAVING AND DRAINAGE PLANS FROM THE COMMERCIAL PLAN SET. AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS THE FIRM BAKER KLEIN. BOBBY L. BAKER WAS THE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER OUT OF

JACKSONVILLE. >> HAVE THEY BEEN CONTACTED AT ALL? HAVE THEY BEEN NOTIFIED THAT WHAT THEY DESIGNED AND BUILT DOES NOT WORK?

>> WE HAVE NOT CONTACTED THEM, COMMISSIONER, NO. >> HIS OBLIGATION INCLUDES

[04:40:03]

>> HE DESIGNED A PIPE TO HOLD SO MUCH STORAGE AND DOESN'T SEEM TO BE DOING IT.

HE DIDN'T DESIGN IT CORRECTLY. IT'S LIKE PUTTING A ROOF ON SOMEWHERE AND IT LEAKS.

THEY DIDN'T DO IT CORRECTLY. UM, YOU KNOW, DOES THE WATER ON THE NORTH CANAL GO BY THE

CHURCH? >> YES, SIR. DO WE KNOW WHAT SIZE PIPE THAT IS? AND IF D.O.T. HAS CLEANED THAT OUT?

>> I BELIEVE IT'S A BOX CULVERT. WE CAN CHECK THE MAINTENANCE RECORDS ON IT.

THEY USUALLY KEEP THEIR STUFF MAINTAINED. >> THERE'S A CANAL BY FIRST

AVENUE? >> CORRECT. HAS THAT BEEN CLEANED OUT?

>> IT WAS CONSTRUCTED WITH RIPRAP TO REINFORCE THE SIDES TO REDUCE THE MAINTENANCE OF IT,

BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY THE LAST TIME -- >> SOME OF THAT WATER THAT GOES NORTH -- HAVE WE CHECKED THAT TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT BEING IMPEDED SOMEWHERE?

>> I HAVE NOT, SIR. THE ONLY TWWAY THEY COULD HAVE D THAT IS WALKED IT.

IT'S A LONG WAYS -- >> ONCE IT CROSSES THE SPEEDWAY. >> THEN, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE THING IS WE'RE DEALING WITH FLOW AND CAPACITY. 24 INCH TRYING TO GO INTO AN 18-INCH CULVERT. YOU KNOW, D.O.T. DID ALL THE DESIGN ON THESE SIDEWALKS AND LITTLE RETENTION THINGS IN BETWEEN THEM. THEY FILLED IN OVER THE YEARS AND AREN'T HOLDING -- IF YOU LOOK AT THIS OLDER PICTURE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE WATER HELD ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 16 -- SOUTH SIDE OF 16. THOSE AREN'T ANY MORE.

MAYBE WE NEED TO TALK TO D.O.T. ABOUT THAT. >> IF WE'RE DIRECTED TO MOVE FORWARD, WE WILL TALK TO D.O.T. TO INCREASE THE DRAINAGE AND TAKE IT OUT TO THAT 18-INCH THAT

EXISTS WITHIN STATE ROAD 16 CAN BE UPSIZED. >> -- CREATE MORE STORAGE RIGHT

THERE BY D.O.T. PROPERTY. AND ALL THAT. >> IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED RIGHT. >> MR. VICE-CHAIR, IF I MAY. >> SURE.

>> JUST ONE THING. I'VE SEEN A LOT OF PICTURES, AND WE DID SEE A VIDEO TODAY.

MAYBE ALL THE COMMISSIONERS TRULY UNDERSTAND, BUT I'M HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TIME SORT OF LOOKING AT THE AERIAL AND KNOWING WHERE THE -- YOU KNOW, THE SUBJECT FLOODING IS.

I KNOW ALONG A PORTION OF SOUTH COLLINS, BUT IS IT -- IS IT ELSEWHERE, TOO? THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOMEBODY DO A POINTER ON THE AERIAL.

THIS IS WHERE WE'VE SEEN THE FLOODING. I JUST OFFER THAT TO THE BOARD

IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THAT. >> SHERRY CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

>> IF NECESSARY, DOES THAT NEED TO BE -- DOES THAT -- MS. BADGER, DOES THAT --

>> YEAH. CAN YOU PUSH THE PICTURE UP LIKE THIS.

>> OKAY. THE FLOODING STARTS OVER HERE, DOWN THIS WHOLE ROAD, AND THEN IT COMES AROUND THE CORNER, AND THEN UP HERE BY THE -- RIGHT HERE AT THIS CORNER IS WHERE THE WATER IS DRAINING DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE A DITCH TO DRAIN INTO.

I'M JUST LETTING Y'ALL -- I STARTED THIS PROJECT. I WANT MY DITCH BACK ONLY TO KEEP WATER OUT OF MY HOUSE. BECAUSE IF I LIVED IN A GATED COMMUNITY OR I LIVED IN BEACH, I WOULD BE, UM, GETTING BOND MONEY TO KEEP FROM FLOODING, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING Y'ALL TO

DO. ALONG LAWRENCE -- >> IT STARTS RIGHT THERE.

AND THEN ON THE CORNER OF SOUTH COLLINS AND LAWRENCE, THAT'S TOBEY'S YARD.

THAT WHOLE YARD WAS FLOODED. THEY HAD AN INCH AND A HALF OF WATER IF IN THEIR BUILDING.

YOU SAW THAT WHOLE PARCEL. POINT UP TO THE HIGHWAY. RIGHT THERE.

10 YEARS AGO, A SEPTIC TANK FOR LITTLE CHAMP WAS APPROVED TO BE PUT IN THERE, WHICH OUR DRAINAGE

[04:45:06]

THEN YOU DID THE STRIP MALL AND THEN THE GENTLEMAN BACK HERE BUILT THAT AND NOW THE WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOOD IS FLOODING. Y'ALL CAN PULL IT UP ON THE AERIAL.

THIS IS THE SECOND HIGHEST PLACE. THIS IS CALLED RABBIT HILL.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A FLOODING ISSUE. WE NEVER HAD ANY WATER DURING

MATTHEW, IRMA, NOTHING UNTIL THIS DITCH WAS FILLED IN. >> IF I MAY AGAIN, I'M SORRY, THROUGH THE CHAIR, MS. BADGER, THERE WAS SOME DESCRIPTION OF SOME FILL BROUGHT IN.

>> I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. THAT'S AT THE OTHER END OF THE ROAD. THAT WAS THEIR ISSUE. NOW HER HOUSE IS FLOODED OUT AND HER DITCH IS KEEPING WATER. WHAT I'VE BEEN WORKING IS SOUTH COLLINS, RIGHT THERE AT THAT

CORNER. >> ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

THAT'S WHERE -- THAT'S WHERE THE FLOODING IN TOBEY'S YARD, THAT FIRST HOUSE RIGHT THERE ON SOUTH COLLINS AND LAWRENCE, THAT IS WHERE IT FLOODED. HE HAD A LAKE IN HIS YARD.

AND JAMES BAKER FILLED IN THAT -- A PIECE OF THAT CANAL FROM SOUTH COLLINS AVENUE TO LAWRENCE AVENUE. HE FILLED IT IN WITH DIRT AND HE PULLED NO PERMITS.

NO PERMITS FOR THE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS LOADS OF DIRT. I CALLED THE COUNTY AND THE EPA

AND RATTED HIM OUT. >> CAN I JUST JUMP IN HERE FOR A MINUTE? CAN YOU GO UNDER THE TREES THERE. .

>> THE JUNCTION THAT I WAS SHOWING YOU -- >> CAN YOU SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE, MA'AM. ONE OF THEM. THERE'S ONE OF THEM RIGHT THERE.

>> THE JUNCTURE THAT I WAS SHOWING YOU OF THE TWO DITCHES IS RIGHT IN THERE.

AND THEN, IF YOU GO NORTH -- GO RIGHT IN THE DITCH. DO YOU SEE THE DITCH? YEAH. THAT'S THE DITCH THAT DOES NOT DRAIN OUT ON TO 16.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE ALL THE MUD AND -- IT'S -- IT'S FILLED UP UNDER THE TREES, AND THEN YOU GET DOWN TO 16, IT'S JUST DRY MUD AND STAYS THAT WAY. SO, YOU KNOW, I -- I -- IT'S -- IT'S QUITE -- IT'S LIKE A FULL-TIME JOB KEEPING UP WITH BOTH ENDS OF THE STREET AND WHAT

HAPPENS IN BETWEEN. >> WHO MAINTAINED THAT IN THE PAST?

>> I'M SORRY, WHAT? >> WHO MAINTAINED THAT IN THE PAST?

WHEN WAS IT LAST MAINTAINED AND WHO MAINTAINED IT? >> THE DITCH?

>> YES, MA'AM. >> BEN BRIGHT SENT GUYS OUT AND THEY PUT FILL DIRT IN THE PART OF THE DITCH WHERE THE JUNCTURE IS TO TRY TO RAISE THE SLOPE, I GUESS.

I GUESS THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE DOING. UM, IT DIDN'T WORK.

THEY JUST FILLED IN MORE OF THE DITCH. FOR SOME REASON, IT WON'T GET PAST A CERTAIN POINT IN THE DITCH AND GO ON OUT ON THE 16. IT'S A REAL PROBLEM.

THE RAIN I SHOWED YOU IN MY SIDE YARD IS JUST ONE DAY OF A NOR'EASTER, THREE DAYS OF A HURRICANE AND I'LL BE UNDER WATER. SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN FIGURE

SOMETHING OUT. >> I'M -- I'M COMPELLED, IF I MAY, MR. CALDWELL, TO ASK A QUESTION, AND THIS MAY BE TOTALLY GOOFY, BUT I'M TRYING TO GO OVER YOU, PAUL, I DON'T WANT TO HIT YOU. I WAS HEARING THAT THIS AREA WHERE IT, QUOTE, STARTS AND FLOWS DOWN LAWRENCE AND THEN DOWN COLLINS AND STOPPED UP GOING THIS WAY.

HAVE WE LOOKED AT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, OR IS IT POSSIBLE AT ALL IF THE AREA OF CONCERN WHERE THE FLOODING STARTS, THE WATER PILES UP, IS THERE -- HAVE WE LOOKED AT THE POSSIBILITY OF DIVERTING THAT INTO THE -- INTO THE RETENTION PONDS OF WHAT IS ROYAL ST. AUGUSTINE DEVELOPMENT AND THE GOLF COURSE? DO THEY HAVE ANY CAPACITY? I MEAN, I'M SEARCHING FOR ANSWERS. I'M SEARCHING FOR A WAY TO SOLVE THIS PERMANENTLY AS COMMISSIONER

[04:50:04]

SMITH SAID. >> WELL -- >> I WANT TO LOOK AT THE

ELEVATIONS. HAS THAT BEEN LOOKED AT? >> WE'VE NOT LOOKED AT THAT.

>> IF THE AVERAGE ELEVATION OF THE PONDS IS SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN THIS AREA AND OUR ENGINEERS LOOK AT IT AND SAY IT WOULD BE A POSSIBLE FIX, WE DON'T NEED IT POSSIBLY TO DO A PIPE UNDER THE DRIVEWAY IF WE JUST DID A STRAIGHT, YOU KNOW, GETAWAY CANAL, LET'S SAY INTO THE PONDS.

PERSONALLY, I'D LIKE TO HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT BASED ON THE GRADIENT, THE ELEVATIONS AND

WHAT THAT WOULD GO THROUGH FROM HERE TO HERE. >> WE CAN LOOK AT THAT, SIR.

WHERE IS THE RECEIVING WATER BODY FOR THESE PONDS? >> THIS POPS OFF STATE ROUTE 16.

IF YOU DRIVE DOWN THE ROAD, YOU CAN SEE THE STRUCTURE. ESPECIALLY DURING RAIN IT GUSHS

AND GOES OUT TO RED HOUSE BRANCH. >> THAT DITCH THAT GOES UNDER 16, THAT PART OF THE DITCH HAS NOT BEEN CLEANED OUT FOR A LONG TIME.

THE OTHER SIDE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN ANYBODY CLEANED IT OUT, BECAUSE IT GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND THE VOCH TECH HIGH SCHOOL. IT WAS A BIG CANAL UNTIL THEY STARTED BUILDING THOSE HOUSES BACK THERE. A COUPLE OF THE LAST HOUSING THEY BUILT IN THAT HOUSING DEVELOPMENT OFF OF WOODLAWN ON THE FAR CORNER BACK TOWARDS THE -- THE EAST END OF WHERE THEY BUILT, THOSE PLACES, THE GARAGES SPLIT OPEN AND BLACK

MUCK IS COMING UP THROUGH THEM. >> GREG, IF I COULD ASK YOU ONE OTHER QUESTION TO FIND OUT.

FROM HERE EAST, THAT IS PIPED TO THE SAN SEBASTIAN? >> THERE'S A PORTION OF THIS THAT GOES WEST, COMMISSIONER. I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE HIGH POINT IS ON STATE ROUTE 16

DRAINAGE SYSTEM. >> ONCE YOU GET FARTHER DOWN IT'S GOING TO GO EAST?

>> YES, SIR. >> DO WE KNOW IF D.O.T. IS MAINTAINING THAT?

>> WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT IT FURTHER EAST BY ESTRADA. >> RIGHT.

>> THE D.O.T. USUALLY MAINTAINS THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE PRETTY WELL, BUT I DON'T KNOW THEIR

MAINTENANCE RECORDS OF THAT SYSTEM. >> YEAH.

IT WON'T GO UP TO RABBIT HILL WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS AREA.

I WOULD ASSUME THAT GOES DOWN AND GOES ACROSS MASTERS. >> THE WATER COULD BE BACKING

UP. >> YES, SIR. >> MR. CALDWELL, EITHER OF THE PROPOSED SOLUTIONS, CAN WE HAVE 100% GUARANTEE THAT THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE THE DRAINAGE

SITUATION? >> WHAT I WOULD ASK IS LET'S GO FORWARD WITH THE ENGINEERING AND DESIGN AND MAKE SURE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS GOING TO SOLVE THE ENTIRE PROBLEM.

WE WILL LOOK AT THE OLD ENGINEER THAT PROPOSED THESE PLANS AND DESIGNED THEM, OR LOOKING AT THE OVERALL CONCEPT. BECAUSE IT'S TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS RIGHT NOW WE'RE KIND OF TALKING ABOUT. ONE IS THE WESTERN PORTION OF THIS AREA AND ONE IS UP HERE ON SOUTH COLLINS. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THAT ENTIRELY BEFORE I GAVE YOU AN

ANSWER ON THAT QUESTION. >> KIND OF GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD A LITTLE BIT?

>> YES, SIR. >> OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH.

>> JUST ONE MORE QUESTION ON THAT. ARE WE GOING TO ENGINEER AND

DESIGN IT OR HIRE A FIRM? >> ARE WE GOING TO GO -- >> WE GOING TO ENGINEER AND

DESIGN IT OURSELVES, OR ARE WE GOING TO HIRE A FIRM? >> WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT QUESTION

YET. WE'LL LOOK AT THAT. >> IT'S IMPORTANT.

BAKER KLEIN SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I THINK A LOT OF TIMES AS A COUNTY WE TURN OUR BACKS TO STUFF THEY DO WRONG AND DON'T MAKE THEM FIX IT.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF THE BOARD. THEY GOT INSURANCE.

THEY NEED TO FIX IT. >> YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR ME ANYWAY.

IT'S NOT JUST THIS PROBLEM. IT'S THE SOURCE OF HOW WE ENDED UP AT THIS PROBLEM THAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE REMEDY BEFORE WE -- WE -- WE TAKE OTHER STEPS. IF IT'S AN ENGINEERING FIRM THAT DIDN'T DO IT CORRECTLY, THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. AND LIKEWISE, OUR TAXPAYERS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT. THAT'S WHAT IS BORESOME TO ME -- BOTHERSOM.

[04:55:08]

WE NEED TO KNOW WHY IT WAS DONE THAT WAY. IF IT'S ACCORDING TO THE LDC, IS THERE A PROBLEM THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE REMEDIED? I DON'T THINK SO.

I WANT IT REMEDIED PERMANENTLY AND LOW MAINTENANCE. I DON'T WANT TO BE BACK HERE AGAIN AND AGAIN WITH A DITCH THAT IS NOT MAINTAINED, WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER ISSUE.

THIS SHOULD BE -- THIS SHOULD BE RESOLVED AT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.

AND IF IT'S AN ENGINEER THAT HAS THAT PROBLEM, THEY NEED TO BE HELD LIABLE.

I DON'T CARE WHAT IT COSTS. IT NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT. THESE FOLKS SHOULDN'T HAVE THIS

PROBLEM. >> ALL RIGHT. I WOULD TAKE THAT AS A MOTION IF

YOU'D LIKE TOMA MAKE A MOTION. >> WE NEED TO PUT THE LIABILITY ON WHOEVER CREATED THIS PROBLEM.

THAT'S MY MOTION. >> A SECOND? >> I'LL SECOND IT.

>> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? OKAY. PLEASE VOTE.

THAT IS APPROVED 4-0. UNLESS THERE ARE OTHER COMMENTS, THAT COMPLETES THAT ITEM.

>> WAS THE MOTION CLEAR TO STAFF? IS THERE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING

OF WHAT WE MOVED TO DO SO THEY CAN CARRY THAT OUT? >> JUST TO BE CLEAR, MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER SMITH BY ANY AND ALL MEANS NECESSARY, BASED ON THE CONVERSATION I HAD, AND I WOULD SPEAK WITH MR. MCCORMACK AND OCA, DETERMINING THE SOURCE OF THE ORIGINAL PLANS. THEN DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S AN LEGAL LIABILITY FOR THEM. THAT'S A LEGAL QUESTION I KNOW THEY'LL HAVE TO QUESTION.

SECONDLY, IF THERE'S NOT THE ABILITY TO GET THE ENGINEER, THEN AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION TO PICTURE THE PROBLEM, 100% OR 95%. IT'S NEVER 100% WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THESE KINDS OF THINGS. WE'LL COME BACK WITH AN ADDITIONAL SOLUTION FOR THE BOARD ONCE WE'VE VETTED WITH OCA TO DETERMINE LEGAL LIABILITY ON THE ENGINEERING FIRM THAT DESIGNED THE WESTGATE PLAZA AND THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS TO SOUTH COLLINS AND THE TURN-IN. THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTOOD IT. IF THERE'S ANY DIFFERENCE FROM

THE BOARD BASED ON THE MOTION, CERTAINLY WE WELCOME THAT. >> IF I MAY THROUGH THE VICE-CHAIR, JUST TO CLARIFY, TOO, COMMISSIONER SMITH, I HEARD YOU SAY ANYBODY LIABLE.

IF SOMEBODY FILLED IN IMPROPERLY? >> YES, SIR.

THAT'S WHY I SAID IT. ANYBODY. WHAT I'VE HEARD TODAY, THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS THAT ARE POTENTIAL TO CREATING THIS PROBLEM, ALL OF THOSE FACTORS NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED, IDENTIFIED, AND REMEDIED. THAT'S THE KEY.

YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF SUMMARIZING THAT. >> OKAY.

THAT'S CLEAR TO ME. I HOPE IT'S CLEAR TO EVERYONE ELSE.

THAT COMPLETES OUR REGULAR AGENDA. I'M GOING TO TURN NOW TO

[Reports]

WE CONTINUE TO HAVE A WET FALL/WINTER. FIELD CONDITIONS ARE MUDDY.

PLANT CONTINUES WITH COLD CROPS. HARVEST HAS BEGUN WITH CABBAGE AND BROCCOLI SOON HEREAFTER.

>> MR. WALDRON. >> I WENT LAST NIGHT WITH MY DAUGHTER AND MY GRANDSON AND WATCH NIGHT OF LIGHTS. I RECOMMEND EVERYBODY GO DOWN THERE AND ENJOY THE EVENING.

THE ELITE SOCCER FOR DONATING 2,975 TO OUR PARKS AND RECREATION.

AND LA CROSSE FOR DONATING MONEY TO PARKS AND RECREATION. ALSO WISH MY UNCLE MIKE A HAPPY

BIRTHDAY. HE WATCHES FROM TIME TO TIME. >> ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER WHITEHURST? >> YES, SIR. VERY QUICKLY, I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE ST. AUGUSTINE HIGH SCHOOL FOR CONTINUING TO MOVE ALONG IN THE PLAYOFFS.

I KNOW THAT A LOT OF EYES ARE ON THOSE TWO FOOTBALL TEAMS TO KEEP MOVING.

WE'RE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MY DAUGHTER OLIVIA WHO TURNED 5 THIS WEEK.

>> ALL RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS. >> JUST ONE THING FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION TODAY. AS YOU'RE ALL AWARE -- YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE FOR THE PAST SEVEN

[05:00:04]

THEY'D BE MOVED TO JANUARY 19TH. I LEAVE THAT TO YOU FOR CONSIDERATION FOR CANCELLATION OF THE FIRST MEETING AND PUTTING THOSE ITEMS ON THE 19TH OR WHENEVER THEY MAY FIT.

THANK YOU. >> EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT? >> WE DID GO THROUGH THE AGENDA.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE AN OVERWHELMING THING AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS NEEDFUL FOR SOMEBODY TO HOLD THEM BACK ON A PROCESS, IF THAT'S THE CASE, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH IT.

IT'S BEEN CUSTOMARY. MOST FOLKS ARE ACCUSTOMED TO THAT.

WE'LL PROBABLY BE HERE FOR A MEETING. >> TRUE.

>> NOTHING FURTHER. >> LEGAL? >> PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC

COMMENT FOR THE -- YOU KNOW, THE -- THE BCC MEETING CHANGE. >> PUBLIC COMMENT FOR BCC CANCELLATION OF THE JANUARY 5TH MEETING? I SEE NONE, MR. VICE CHAIRMAN.

>> NO REPORT. THANK YOU, SIR. >> ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT. I BELIEVE THAT COMPLETES OUR MEETING

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.